|
|
Post by Gassy on Dec 11, 2023 11:38:39 GMT
It's going to be an interesting couple of days. Sunak is called up to the Covid Inquiry and there is the small matter of the Rwanda bill. Lose the Rwanda vote and they'll be a big call to go. Could we see a GE before May after all? Honestly, I can honestly see a vote of no confidence by the end of the week and Braverman winning it |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 11, 2023 11:44:53 GMT
It's going to be an interesting couple of days. Sunak is called up to the Covid Inquiry and there is the small matter of the Rwanda bill. Lose the Rwanda vote and they'll be a big call to go. Could we see a GE before May after all? Honestly, I can honestly see a vote of no confidence by the end of the week and Braverman winning it Maybe, but not sure the numbers stack up yet. It's highly likely that Labour will win the next GE and it'll mean 'turkeys voting for Christmas', although quite apt š At the moment I'd suspect it'll pass, just, with many not voting for it as a shot across the bows. |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Dec 11, 2023 11:54:37 GMT
Honestly, I can honestly see a vote of no confidence by the end of the week and Braverman winning it Maybe, but not sure the numbers stack up yet. It's highly likely that Labour will win the next GE and it'll mean 'turkeys voting for Christmas', although quite apt š At the moment I'd suspect it'll pass, just, with many not voting for it as a shot across the bows. Battle lines being drawn by Wes Streeting with the left of the labour party over NHS funding,he's 100% right ,like you Stuart having spent endless time in the "system" the waste and inefficient process is breathtaking. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Dec 11, 2023 12:43:30 GMT
Maybe, but not sure the numbers stack up yet. It's highly likely that Labour will win the next GE and it'll mean 'turkeys voting for Christmas', although quite apt š At the moment I'd suspect it'll pass, just, with many not voting for it as a shot across the bows. Battle lines being drawn by Wes Streeting with the left of the labour party over NHS funding,he's 100% right ,like you Stuart having spent endless time in the "system" the waste and inefficient process is breathtaking. And more. We have to agree what we can treat. We have to agree we cannot do everything |
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,503 
Member is Online
|
Post by yattongas on Dec 11, 2023 12:47:03 GMT
Battle lines being drawn by Wes Streeting with the left of the labour party over NHS funding,he's 100% right ,like you Stuart having spent endless time in the "system" the waste and inefficient process is breathtaking. And more. We have to agree what we can treat. We have to agree we cannot do everything No city fans or Tories ā¦.. thatās a 25% saving for starters. |
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,503
Member is Online
|
Post by yattongas on Dec 11, 2023 13:19:37 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 11, 2023 13:47:47 GMT
Isn't a Star a ball of hot gas? Should be the 'Black Hole' Chamber, sucks the light out of anything nearby. |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Dec 11, 2023 14:05:48 GMT
Battle lines being drawn by Wes Streeting with the left of the labour party over NHS funding,he's 100% right ,like you Stuart having spent endless time in the "system" the waste and inefficient process is breathtaking. And more. We have to agree what we can treat. We have to agree we cannot do everything Absolutely,NHS was not set up to do what it's doing now. |
|
|
|
Post by gulfofaden on Dec 11, 2023 17:25:54 GMT
Maybe, but not sure the numbers stack up yet. It's highly likely that Labour will win the next GE and it'll mean 'turkeys voting for Christmas', although quite apt š At the moment I'd suspect it'll pass, just, with many not voting for it as a shot across the bows. Battle lines being drawn by Wes Streeting with the left of the labour party over NHS funding,he's 100% right ,like you Stuart having spent endless time in the "system" the waste and inefficient process is breathtaking. Labour are the answer to sorting out the NHS . The tories cannot. Any attempt to reform will be met with immediate strikes, riots probably. There is too much suspicion from within the service and at large that the Tories will want to privatise to hand it to ātheir matesā. So we either have the Tories āmatesā or Labours āmatesā. All their voters in the staunch red NHS and public services. Either way, the tories cannot modernise the NHS. Labour can. Itās basically been frozen in time in terms of procedure. Thereās tons of waste but Tories canāt change the model. All they can do is throw more money at an inefficient system. Any change and it would be an insurrection. This is the problem with public institutions. They get overrun by lefties. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 11, 2023 18:14:27 GMT
Battle lines being drawn by Wes Streeting with the left of the labour party over NHS funding,he's 100% right ,like you Stuart having spent endless time in the "system" the waste and inefficient process is breathtaking. Labour are the answer to sorting out the NHS . The tories cannot. Any attempt to reform will be met with immediate strikes, riots probably. There is too much suspicion from within the service and at large that the Tories will want to privatise to hand it to ātheir matesā. So we either have the Tories āmatesā or Labours āmatesā. All their voters in the staunch red NHS and public services. Either way, the tories cannot modernise the NHS. Labour can. Itās basically been frozen in time in terms of procedure. Thereās tons of waste but Tories canāt change the model. All they can do is throw more money at an inefficient system. Any change and it would be an insurrection. This is the problem with public institutions. They get overrun by lefties. The same thing was said back in 1997 in that it would take a Labour government to sort out the NHS. |
|
|
|
Post by gulfofaden on Dec 11, 2023 18:35:57 GMT
Labour are the answer to sorting out the NHS . The tories cannot. Any attempt to reform will be met with immediate strikes, riots probably. There is too much suspicion from within the service and at large that the Tories will want to privatise to hand it to ātheir matesā. So we either have the Tories āmatesā or Labours āmatesā. All their voters in the staunch red NHS and public services. Either way, the tories cannot modernise the NHS. Labour can. Itās basically been frozen in time in terms of procedure. Thereās tons of waste but Tories canāt change the model. All they can do is throw more money at an inefficient system. Any change and it would be an insurrection. This is the problem with public institutions. They get overrun by lefties. The same thing was said back in 1997 in that it would take a Labour government to sort out the NHS. It did improve. That was down to funding in many ways, still not as much as today but it increased massively. I spoke to a private consultant once and he just said that it can be resolved by clarifying what it actually does. I presume this would mean cosmetic surgery, IVF etc might be excluded? See, really what you need are some good business consultants to be paid a shedload to establish what needs to be done. Itās not beyond the wit of man. The moment the tories did this it would be strike action. I follow some union folks on twitter and have been in events with the NHS at fairly senior level and they are very entwined with the Labour Party and politics. Thereās gonna be revolt if Labour did that but if the tories did it would be Armageddon. Sad fact is that Labour are the only ones who can change it but they wonāt be as they will face resistance from their key support. You have to ask yourself why a service is resistant to change. Far too many people not wanting scrutiny IMO |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Dec 11, 2023 19:54:19 GMT
The same thing was said back in 1997 in that it would take a Labour government to sort out the NHS. It did improve. That was down to funding in many ways, still not as much as today but it increased massively. I spoke to a private consultant once and he just said that it can be resolved by clarifying what it actually does. I presume this would mean cosmetic surgery, IVF etc might be excluded? See, really what you need are some good business consultants to be paid a shedload to establish what needs to be done. Itās not beyond the wit of man. The moment the tories did this it would be strike action. I follow some union folks on twitter and have been in events with the NHS at fairly senior level and they are very entwined with the Labour Party and politics. Thereās gonna be revolt if Labour did that but if the tories did it would be Armageddon. Sad fact is that Labour are the only ones who can change it but they wonāt be as they will face resistance from their key support. You have to ask yourself why a service is resistant to change. Far too many people not wanting scrutiny IMO That is so much a narrow viewpoint. Simplistic in the extreme. That's not what happened in 2001/2, yes the decision to raise spend on our health service as a % of our GDP was taken. To bring it into line with our European peers. But other Reforms were undertaken which did not meet the approval of other vested interests. The facts are the Tories have never done this outside of a media strapline. Which is why they are caught out time and time again. |
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,503
Member is Online
|
Post by yattongas on Dec 11, 2023 20:24:23 GMT
Cuts to social care by the Tories has led to a lot of problems within the NHS.
Rightwing loons always conveniently forget this crucial point š
|
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Dec 11, 2023 22:11:46 GMT
What happened to the vote / Sunak at the enquiry? Thought that was all today?
|
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,503
Member is Online
|
Post by yattongas on Dec 11, 2023 22:25:31 GMT
What happened to the vote / Sunak at the enquiry? Thought that was all today? Sunak couldnāt recall quite a lot of things at the inquiry, it was all others fault and backing up his phone was too complicated for the tech bro. Vote tomorrow, ERG loons want changes or they canāt vote for it , one nation not quite so loony mob say theyāll vote for it but only on the proviso thereās no changes to it. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 12, 2023 9:54:25 GMT
What happened to the vote / Sunak at the enquiry? Thought that was all today? Sunak couldnāt recall quite a lot of things at the inquiry, it was all others fault and backing up his phone was too complicated for the tech bro.Ā Vote tomorrow, ERG loons want changes or they canāt vote for it , one nation not quite so loony mob say theyāll vote for it but only on the proviso thereās no changes to it. The New Conservatives had a dawn raid - sorry, early morning meeting - with Sunak today. At the moment, it seems the more One Nation element may back it for fear of the consequences if Sunsk fails on the hope that it gets bogged down elsewhere. Will Sunak fall on his sword if it fails or call a GE? Not sure. Again it's something taking up too much bandwidth of government time, just like Brexit. The country loses while the Conservatives fight to stay united. |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Dec 12, 2023 10:10:36 GMT
Sunak couldnāt recall quite a lot of things at the inquiry, it was all others fault and backing up his phone was too complicated for the tech bro.Ā Vote tomorrow, ERG loons want changes or they canāt vote for it , one nation not quite so loony mob say theyāll vote for it but only on the proviso thereās no changes to it. The New Conservatives had a dawn raid - sorry, early morning meeting - with Sunak today. At the moment, it seems the more One Nation element may back it for fear of the consequences if Sunsk fails on the hope that it gets bogged down elsewhere. Will Sunak fall on his sword if it fails or call a GE? Not sure. Again it's something taking up too much bandwidth of government time, just like Brexit. The country loses while the Conservatives fight to stay united. That last sentence, exactly that. Various Tories pontificating about the outcome whilst we have issues unresolved. I thought Starmer got the tone right in his interview this morning on R4. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 12, 2023 16:16:54 GMT
Just as a reminder: "Just 29 Tory MPs need to vote against the bill - or 57 need to abstain - to kill it off. We know there are around 100 MPs represented by the so-called "five families" of right-wing Tory factions, who have been the most vocal over stopping the boats. Clearly, if all those MPs voted against or abstained on Tuesday, the bill would be toast. But although they are often grouped together, it does not guarantee each faction will team up and come to the same conclusion. Also, even when a faction decides which way to vote, not all its signatories are guaranteed to follow suit. One member of the ERG has already publicly said he will vote for the bill, despite its flaws. But remember, these aren't the only groups on the Tory backbenches, and Mr Sunak will need to keep in mind the more liberal One Nation collective too. They also represent around 100 MPs. Yesterday, they recommended members back the bill - though of course some may choose not to. And even if they do, it does not mean the fight is over - as they have said they won't support any changes to toughen up the bill - something those on the right are calling for. With around 200 MPs still debating their position with fewer than 24 hours to go, it's understandable why Mr Sunak might be nervous." news.sky.com/story/politics-news-latest-rishi-sunak-rwanda-bill-vote-tory-mp-rebellion-downing-street-12593360?postid=6910394#liveblog-body |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Dec 12, 2023 19:32:03 GMT
Passed with a majority of 44, pretty comfortable in the end although the battles continues into Committee and Third Reading. Waiting for information on the abstentions.
Then the Lords.....
|
|
|
|
Post by meldrew on Dec 13, 2023 22:18:41 GMT
There seems a huge amount of discontent with the bunch of crooks currently ruining this country. Unless the voting system is changed, there is only one way to rid yourselves of the Tories and that is tactical voting. Whichever party has the best chance of unseating a Tory, then vote for it, irrespective of whether you are Labour or Lib Dem.
|
|
