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Post by gassedOut on Mar 24, 2023 15:27:38 GMT
Scoring 5 goals at NSL level hardly justifies stating he's a better striker than Loft or Marquis at L1 level. The fact he's still at NSL Level doesn't suggest the football world agrees with that POV. 11 goals in 14 Starts so far this season is pretty reasonable I would say. Not sure Marquis and loft have that between them! Although they may have been in the goals earlier. You could say a different standard but after watching some of the games there isn't a lot in it! |
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 24, 2023 15:50:29 GMT
Scoring 5 goals at NSL level hardly justifies stating he's a better striker than Loft or Marquis at L1 level. The fact he's still at NSL Level doesn't suggest the football world agrees with that POV. With due respect Topper, your figures may be right but it’s more about getting the opportunity, and I mean a real opportunity surrounded by better players to show what he can do. I suspect, and I can’t prove it obviously, that had Marcus Stewart been a youngster now he would have struggled to get the real opportunity he got and may have just been released like so many others. But it is what it is and I just hope this young lad does get the real opportunity that Marcus got and many others since didn’t get. UTG! |
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 24, 2023 15:56:13 GMT
Scoring 5 goals at NSL level hardly justifies stating he's a better striker than Loft or Marquis at L1 level. The fact he's still at NSL Level doesn't suggest the football world agrees with that POV. With due respect Topper, your figures may be right but it’s more about getting the opportunity, and I mean a real opportunity surrounded by better players to show what he can do. I suspect, and I can’t prove it obviously, that had Marcus Stewart been a youngster now he would have struggled to get the real opportunity he got and may have just been released like so many others. But it is what it is and I just hope this young lad does get the real opportunity that Marcus got and many others since didn’t get. UTG! The issue is there's now nowhere for Academy players to progress with no Development Squad, as we can hardly pay them for 3(?) years in the hope they might make the step up when they are older. Particularly when we can just pick up free transfers like Collins and Marquis anyway. Thanks to the Bosman ruling the games change since MS was a youngster. |
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Mar 24, 2023 15:59:22 GMT
Scoring 5 goals at NSL level hardly justifies stating he's a better striker than Loft or Marquis at L1 level. The fact he's still at NSL Level doesn't suggest the football world agrees with that POV. With due respect Topper, your figures may be right but it’s more about getting the opportunity, and I mean a real opportunity surrounded by better players to show what he can do. I suspect, and I can’t prove it obviously, that had Marcus Stewart been a youngster now he would have struggled to get the real opportunity he got and may have just been released like so many others. But it is what it is and I just hope this young lad does get the real opportunity that Marcus got and many others since didn’t get. UTG! Completely agree Hoole has proved that given the opportunity there is a pathway into the first team but for some reason others have not really been given the same chance, not just under the current management but going back years. Luke Russe was a good example, got into the side and did well but then disappeared for 2 years and ended up being released, similarly Tom Mehew looked to have a real chance after his performances in the JPT but again never really kicked on. I thought Phillips might well have been kept on given his goal record, hopefully if we can get ourselves mathmatically safe early enough there may be an opportunity to see how the next crop cope with league 1 games |
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Post by gassedOut on Mar 24, 2023 16:04:57 GMT
With due respect Topper, your figures may be right but it’s more about getting the opportunity, and I mean a real opportunity surrounded by better players to show what he can do. I suspect, and I can’t prove it obviously, that had Marcus Stewart been a youngster now he would have struggled to get the real opportunity he got and may have just been released like so many others. But it is what it is and I just hope this young lad does get the real opportunity that Marcus got and many others since didn’t get. UTG! The issue is there's now nowhere for Academy players to progress with no Development Squad, as we can hardly pay them for 3(?) years in the hope they might make the step up when they are older. Particularly when we can just pick up free transfers like Collins and Marquis anyway. Thanks to the Bosman ruling the games change since MS was a youngster. Totally agree, but the strange thing is, for what the Rovers Pay, they could get that back from the loan clubs 2 fold! I know a few of the lads could Treble their money if the play Southern Prem or National League Minimum! So if Rovers gave them a 3 year deal and got their money back from the loan club Bristol Rovers would still have a contracted player 2-3 years down the line and not lose a penny! The mad thing is we don't even have a representative at the club who goes to see the loan players to see how they are progressing! |
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 24, 2023 16:31:46 GMT
With due respect Topper, your figures may be right but it’s more about getting the opportunity, and I mean a real opportunity surrounded by better players to show what he can do. I suspect, and I can’t prove it obviously, that had Marcus Stewart been a youngster now he would have struggled to get the real opportunity he got and may have just been released like so many others. But it is what it is and I just hope this young lad does get the real opportunity that Marcus got and many others since didn’t get. UTG! The issue is there's now nowhere for Academy players to progress with no Development Squad, as we can hardly pay them for 3(?) years in the hope they might make the step up when they are older. Particularly when we can just pick up free transfers like Collins and Marquis anyway. Thanks to the Bosman ruling the games change since MS was a youngster. Yes, you’re correct about making the transition from youth to first team. And I can’t disagree about the impact of the Bosman ruling but I stand by what I said about Marcus Stewart. What we have to do as a club is solve it and find ways to enable those youngsters with talent to get a real opportunity with us. I suspect the route of youth team - loaning out to NL or Southern League - First team is what the club want to achieve. I suspect that the appointment of BG was an attempt to implement this given that when Wael bought us he made the development of our own youngsters a priority. Developing our own youngsters hasn’t happened under most managers. UTG! |
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Post by gasgas3 on Mar 25, 2023 20:57:16 GMT
It’s a difficult one, so many variables.
It’s a roulette game imo. JB has even said it’s pointless without a u23’s squad as he would not put an u18s in the first team League game (it’s in one of his interviews a while back).
However, who is to say that you can’t at 16 or 17. If you are good enough to play at Western Prem or Southern League in a mens team week in week out.
I watch this level every week, and while a lot of teams are very average. The exciting great players are all under 21. They are making some of these players on 4, 5 and at one club (Toolstation Western Prem ), £600 a game plus £50 goal Bonus and £50 assist, look ridiculous.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 26, 2023 8:17:44 GMT
It always seems a bit baffling how other clubs give 16 year olds debuts but we won't even let any of our own 18 or 19 year olds anywhere near the first team.
I doubt any league club has a worse record than Rovers in the last 5 years or so of turning their Academy players into first team players.
Let's see if Jerry Lawrence gets any game time now this season.
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Post by aforce on Mar 26, 2023 9:06:44 GMT
We need to take a look at what Bristol city have done this last year, got rid of some high earners and played their academy prospects, they now have lads worth £10m plus on their hands like Alex Scott, bell and Conway etc.
Theses last few games why not try and blood in some of our youngsters? That Ryan jones looks like he has some potential get him back in the squad.
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Post by mftc on Mar 26, 2023 9:46:21 GMT
We need to take a look at what Bristol city have done this last year, got rid of some high earners and played their academy prospects, they now have lads worth £10m plus on their hands like Alex Scott, bell and Conway etc. Theses last few games why not try and blood in some of our youngsters? That Ryan jones looks like he has some potential get him back in the squad. Exactly. The season is petering out as 48 points will probably be sufficient to keep us up. Jones can play full back, wing back and on the wing on the dreaded left hand side. I like Grant but I am not sure he can play all season and Gordon would be a good back up. I can't see Clarke, McDonald or Heal being here next season so why not have a relatively cheap youngster in the squad who can play multiple positions? I would bring Jones back and give him a few minutes in the last 7-8 games and see what he can do and also Ward for the last few games, without much riding on them for us. I would also experiment with Gordon as I think he could play on the wing. He has great centre of balance and close control and can glide past the first player, but then seems to be told to turn back and either play the ball inside, or backwards after he has done the hard work. If he was given the freedom to push on, I think he could beat opposition players in their own half and creat space and opportunities for our forwards. I think it be worth trying in the end of season matches. |
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Post by warwickgas on Mar 26, 2023 10:57:11 GMT
Ryan Jones is a fantastic prospect. I was delighted when we beat Barry Fry at the last minute to sign him from Weston. I’ve been disappointed that he has not been given a chance, especially when Barton signed a left back who couldnt get into Stockport’s team. If he is released I will not renew my season ticket as my own small protest.
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 26, 2023 11:34:09 GMT
Ryan Jones is a fantastic prospect. I was delighted when we beat Barry Fry at the last minute to sign him from Weston. I’ve been disappointed that he has not been given a chance, especially when Barton signed a left back who couldnt get into Stockport’s team. If he is released I will not renew my season ticket as my own small protest. I agree he's a great prospect but promotion from L2 to L1 didn't help him personally. He's not ready for L1 football. He could probably play conference level this year as he seems to be above Hungerford's level, as does Jed Ward. He needs a good summer of conditioning, strengthening and preseason. I'm expecting him to earn a deal and to get a run in the side for the PSF. |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Mar 26, 2023 12:06:46 GMT
We need to take a look at what Bristol city have done this last year, got rid of some high earners and played their academy prospects, they now have lads worth £10m plus on their hands like Alex Scott, bell and Conway etc. Theses last few games why not try and blood in some of our youngsters? That Ryan jones looks like he has some potential get him back in the squad. Exactly. The season is petering out as 48 points will probably be sufficient to keep us up. Jones can play full back, wing back and on the wing on the dreaded left hand side. I like Grant but I am not sure he can play all season and Gordon would be a good back up. I can't see Clarke, McDonald or Heal being here next season so why not have a relatively cheap youngster in the squad who can play multiple positions? I would bring Jones back and give him a few minutes in the last 7-8 games and see what he can do and also Ward for the last few games, without much riding on them for us.I would also experiment with Gordon as I think he could play on the wing. He has great centre of balance and close control and can glide past the first player, but then seems to be told to turn back and either play the ball inside, or backwards after he has done the hard work. If he was given the freedom to push on, I think he could beat opposition players in their own half and creat space and opportunities for our forwards. I think it be worth trying in the end of season matches. Hungerford are currently 3rd from bottom of the Southern League South - the bottom 3 teams get relegated. If we were in a position of possible relegation (or promotion) would we think it was fair if one of the Prem loans was recalled for the last 6 games? Imagine if this had happened with Elliot Anderson last season - we'b have been apoplectic. |
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Post by meadgas on Mar 26, 2023 12:40:00 GMT
If we had Marcus Stewart now he would be taken by one of the big clubs for their academy, before he made the first team most likely.
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Post by mftc on Mar 26, 2023 14:15:05 GMT
Exactly. The season is petering out as 48 points will probably be sufficient to keep us up. Jones can play full back, wing back and on the wing on the dreaded left hand side. I like Grant but I am not sure he can play all season and Gordon would be a good back up. I can't see Clarke, McDonald or Heal being here next season so why not have a relatively cheap youngster in the squad who can play multiple positions? I would bring Jones back and give him a few minutes in the last 7-8 games and see what he can do and also Ward for the last few games, without much riding on them for us.I would also experiment with Gordon as I think he could play on the wing. He has great centre of balance and close control and can glide past the first player, but then seems to be told to turn back and either play the ball inside, or backwards after he has done the hard work. If he was given the freedom to push on, I think he could beat opposition players in their own half and creat space and opportunities for our forwards. I think it be worth trying in the end of season matches. Hungerford are currently 3rd from bottom of the Southern League South - the bottom 3 teams get relegated. If we were in a position of possible relegation (or promotion) would we think it was fair if one of the Prem loans was recalled for the last 6 games? Imagine if this had happened with Elliot Anderson last season - we'b have been apoplectic. Unfortunately life and football are not fair. We moaned about Thomas getting recalled. If it is in agreed terms to allow recalls then why not. Didn't we recall Egan a few weeks after he left on loan to Weymouth as we potentially needed centre back cover as Gibson may have had a relapse? A few years ago Wardy said we had to play a full strength team in the last few games to be fair to other teams in the play off and relegation dog fight. We played the last two games with experienced players and got 1 point that made absolutely no difference to the play offs or relegation. Instead we could have played Macey which could have earned more money in the tribunal and Hunter and the coaching staff could have seen what he was like in men's football. Maybe it is selfish but why not put our club first? Luca was brought through by GC, the club overspent and had injuries, so Joey had to play him in pre season and fair play he took the chance. If Joey bought in a right back, I don't think Luca would have had a look in, like Phillips so would probably be at Gloucester City. From there it is hard to get back, despite any talent, when you have to juggle working part time in the real world. If we close the opportunity for youngsters to break through then the next Marcus Stewart may well pick Exeter over us for example as they have a better recent example of bringing youth through. Look at the young players of 85-86. The likes of Darren Carr, Steve Yates, Ian Weston, Boris and Scales, Richard Drydon, Timmy Carter, Wayne Noble and many more were given opportunities, raised their game, put their bodies on the line and were vital in those first years at Twerton. Just my opinion but I would rather Jones play than someone like McDonald going through the motions after probably told behind closed doors he is not going to be offered a new deal. Hopefully Ward and Jones can get Hungerford the points they need in the next 4-5 games and the other teams go into freefall. - I think if the points from their last ten games are replicated they will be safe with 3-4 games to spare anyway. |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Mar 26, 2023 15:46:00 GMT
Hungerford are currently 3rd from bottom of the Southern League South - the bottom 3 teams get relegated. If we were in a position of possible relegation (or promotion) would we think it was fair if one of the Prem loans was recalled for the last 6 games? Imagine if this had happened with Elliot Anderson last season - we'b have been apoplectic. Unfortunately life and football are not fair. We moaned about Thomas getting recalled. If it is in agreed terms to allow recalls then why not. Didn't we recall Egan a few weeks after he left on loan to Weymouth as we potentially needed centre back cover as Gibson may have had a relapse? A few years ago Wardy said we had to play a full strength team in the last few games to be fair to other teams in the play off and relegation dog fight. We played the last two games with experienced players and got 1 point that made absolutely no difference to the play offs or relegation. Instead we could have played Macey which could have earned more money in the tribunal and Hunter and the coaching staff could have seen what he was like in men's football. Maybe it is selfish but why not put our club first?Luca was brought through by GC, the club overspent and had injuries, so Joey had to play him in pre season and fair play he took the chance. If Joey bought in a right back, I don't think Luca would have had a look in, like Phillips so would probably be at Gloucester City. From there it is hard to get back, despite any talent, when you have to juggle working part time in the real world. If we close the opportunity for youngsters to break through then the next Marcus Stewart may well pick Exeter over us for example as they have a better recent example of bringing youth through. Look at the young players of 85-86. The likes of Darren Carr, Steve Yates, Ian Weston, Boris and Scales, Richard Drydon, Timmy Carter, Wayne Noble and many more were given opportunities, raised their game, put their bodies on the line and were vital in those first years at Twerton. Just my opinion but I would rather Jones play than someone like McDonald going through the motions after probably told behind closed doors he is not going to be offered a new deal. Hopefully Ward and Jones can get Hungerford the points they need in the next 4-5 games and the other teams go into freefall. - I think if the points from their last ten games are replicated they will be safe with 3-4 games to spare anyway. You wouldn't have moaned if Elliot had been recalled then? Fair enough. I suppose I try to treat others as I would like to be treated myself, and the idea of bringing a player back from a club threatened with relegation just doesn't sit well with me. Egan only signed on a one month loan for Weymouth, and played 4 games. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 26, 2023 16:52:58 GMT
Why is MacDonald just "going through the motions" when he seems to be putting in as much effort as the rest of the players?
What would you have said if we'd just relied upon Jones, lost Gordon to injury, then ended up getting relegated if we wasn't ready for L1 football, just as we did under DC when he ran out of defenders v Mansfield.
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Post by eric on Mar 26, 2023 17:53:00 GMT
If we had Marcus Stewart now he would be taken by one of the big clubs for their academy, before he made the first team most likely. Any youngsters as good as Stewart would never be with us in the first place nowadays. City will continue to sweep up all the best young local talent and we take what is left. The level our youngsters get loaned out to and the fact that none ever come back to haunt us after leaving tells its own story. |
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Post by Squiffy on Mar 26, 2023 18:07:25 GMT
If we had Marcus Stewart now he would be taken by one of the big clubs for their academy, before he made the first team most likely. Any youngsters as good as Stewart would never be with us in the first place nowadays. City will continue to sweep up all the best young local talent and we take what is left. The level our youngsters get loaned out to and the fact that none ever come back to haunt us after leaving tells its own story. …and Southampton’s scouting network in our area is probably ahead of City given that they are a Prem side (but not for much longer). |
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Post by peterhooper57 on Mar 27, 2023 10:20:09 GMT
Seems to me BRFC only find and develop youngsters for other clubs, wtf is that all about, we are crying out for some local talent in the side.
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