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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jul 6, 2023 12:39:35 GMT
so you think that being a marked man and serial offender mean the same thing? Alex Ferguson had a reputation for telling refs what he thought but how often was he banned? As for who pays the fines then that is for the club to decide and nothing to do with the fans. So many people seem to think that because the club do not go public with internal matters then they are doing nothing. It doesn't work that way In this instance yes, he is a serial offender who some describe as a marked man.  I can't think of any occasions where Ferguson was convicted of acts of violence which made his work mates hold him back from repeating offending. Actually I think you are right, any statement from the club is needless as the words often prove to be meaningless. Hopefully though the 50/50 money is safe on this occasion. Any news on Andy Mangan? If Fergie's workmates had had the courage to hold him back, David Beckham would not have been hit by the fergie propelled football boot, and the Old Trafford coffers would not have been constantly plundered to buy replacement tea cups.  |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 6, 2023 13:05:39 GMT
In this instance yes, he is a serial offender who some describe as a marked man. I can't think of any occasions where Ferguson was convicted of acts of violence which made his work mates hold him back from repeating offending. Actually I think you are right, any statement from the club is needless as the words often prove to be meaningless. Hopefully though the 50/50 money is safe on this occasion. Any news on Andy Mangan? I haven't seen any further information re. Andy Mangan. Which is disgraceful, to leave somebody with that accussation hanging over their head, regardless of the final outcome. We could do with that dragging on another couple of months or we could well go into the new season with no manager or assistant manager allowed in the ground. |
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Post by DrFaustus on Jul 6, 2023 13:20:23 GMT
Football manager in being angry at officials shocker. So what. Shouldn't have been a ban for that.
Edit: we were never going to win an appeal though, so unsure what we bothered.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jul 6, 2023 13:57:16 GMT
I haven't seen any further information re. Andy Mangan. Which is disgraceful, to leave somebody with that accussation hanging over their head, regardless of the final outcome. We could do with that dragging on another couple of months or we could well go into the new season with no manager or assistant manager allowed in the ground. I think it's ridiculous that we haven't had an outcome after all this time, it's not exactly like going to the High Court for a verdict! |
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 6, 2023 16:39:20 GMT
Worked for local government for 40 years. If anyone had done what JB has been accused of and what he’s admitted to and had to be restrained by his staff from doing worse to me or my staff in schools they would have been banned from the school site for some time. Only had to do it twice in that time. UTG! How do you know his staff were restraining him "from doing worse"? I assumed that they were restraining him from following the referee to continue his verbal tirade. This is part of the complete report on JB. It can be found posted on the other forum: 28.As Ms Turner submitted at the hearing, the sanction fell to be imposed in respect of three separate breaches, two of which took place after the referee had issued a red card and so exhausted the jurisdiction of the match managers. It was, as she said, inevitable that a robust approach would be called for given these circumstances. She further pointed out that on the findings made by the RC Mr Barton was demonstrating such levels of aggression and anger that he had to be
restrained by his own staff. Finally, his misconduct continued even after a cooling 9 Clearly had to be restrained. As I said earlier so much deflection away from JB just being wrong. No wonder referees are hard to find. UTG! |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 6, 2023 17:41:24 GMT
How do you know his staff were restraining him "from doing worse"? I assumed that they were restraining him from following the referee to continue his verbal tirade. This is part of the complete report on JB. It can be found posted on the other forum: 28.As Ms Turner submitted at the hearing, the sanction fell to be imposed in respect of three separate breaches, two of which took place after the referee had issued a red card and so exhausted the jurisdiction of the match managers. It was, as she said, inevitable that a robust approach would be called for given these circumstances. She further pointed out that on the findings made by the RC Mr Barton was demonstrating such levels of aggression and anger that he had to be
restrained by his own staff. Finally, his misconduct continued even after a cooling 9 Clearly had to be restrained. As I said earlier so much deflection away from JB just being wrong. No wonder referees are hard to find. UTG! It still doesn't suggest JB was going to physically attack the ref rather than just continue with his verbal abuse? The fear is one day that he will go too far but that's something Wael/TG have to worry about not us as fans. |
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Post by oldie on Jul 6, 2023 18:52:36 GMT
This is part of the complete report on JB. It can be found posted on the other forum: 28.As Ms Turner submitted at the hearing, the sanction fell to be imposed in respect of three separate breaches, two of which took place after the referee had issued a red card and so exhausted the jurisdiction of the match managers. It was, as she said, inevitable that a robust approach would be called for given these circumstances. She further pointed out that on the findings made by the RC Mr Barton was demonstrating such levels of aggression and anger that he had to be
restrained by his own staff. Finally, his misconduct continued even after a cooling 9 Clearly had to be restrained. As I said earlier so much deflection away from JB just being wrong. No wonder referees are hard to find. UTG! It still doesn't suggest JB was going to physically attack the ref rather than just continue with his verbal abuse? The fear is one day that he will go too far but that's something Wael/TG have to worry about not us as fans. He had to be held back. No need to second guess his intentions |
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 6, 2023 18:58:04 GMT
This is part of the complete report on JB. It can be found posted on the other forum: 28.As Ms Turner submitted at the hearing, the sanction fell to be imposed in respect of three separate breaches, two of which took place after the referee had issued a red card and so exhausted the jurisdiction of the match managers. It was, as she said, inevitable that a robust approach would be called for given these circumstances. She further pointed out that on the findings made by the RC Mr Barton was demonstrating such levels of aggression and anger that he had to be
restrained by his own staff. Finally, his misconduct continued even after a cooling 9 Clearly had to be restrained. As I said earlier so much deflection away from JB just being wrong. No wonder referees are hard to find. UTG! It still doesn't suggest JB was going to physically attack the ref rather than just continue with his verbal abuse? The fear is one day that he will go too far but that's something Wael/TG have to worry about not us as fans. Come on Topper surely you can see they restrained him for a reason. As you say the fear is that one day he will go too far. Again though deflection from what he actually did. Too many looking for reasons to excuse him. Hey ho. UTG! |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jul 6, 2023 19:05:07 GMT
It still doesn't suggest JB was going to physically attack the ref rather than just continue with his verbal abuse? The fear is one day that he will go too far but that's something Wael/TG have to worry about not us as fans. He had to be held back. No need to second guess his intentions Ever heard of verbal aggression? If his staff didn't want him getting up close in the ref's ear again they would have rightly kept him away. |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jul 6, 2023 19:06:21 GMT
It still doesn't suggest JB was going to physically attack the ref rather than just continue with his verbal abuse? The fear is one day that he will go too far but that's something Wael/TG have to worry about not us as fans. Come on Topper surely you can see they restrained him for a reason. As you say the fear is that one day he will go too far. Again though deflection from what he actually did. Too many looking for reasons to excuse him. Hey ho. UTG! Or too many always looking for more reasons to accuse him? Embelishing what we can read, just to take it that one step further. |
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 6, 2023 19:29:47 GMT
Come on Topper surely you can see they restrained him for a reason. As you say the fear is that one day he will go too far. Again though deflection from what he actually did. Too many looking for reasons to excuse him. Hey ho. UTG! Or too many always looking for more reasons to accuse him? Embelishing what we can read, just to take it that one step further. No problem, it’s a forum with different views. You differ from me regarding it and I accept that. But to be clear, no embellishment, what I quoted was straight from the FAs report of the hearing JB asked for with his appeal. UTG! |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jul 6, 2023 21:27:57 GMT
Or too many always looking for more reasons to accuse him? Embelishing what we can read, just to take it that one step further. No problem, it’s a forum with different views. You differ from me regarding it and I accept that. But to be clear, no embellishment, what I quoted was straight from the FAs report of the hearing JB asked for with his appeal. UTG! You did state to Topper "surely you can see that they restrained him for a reason" - which seemed to imply that you were taking JB's actions to a level which hadn't actually been specified as such. It wouldn't surprise me if Barton does go through that barrier at some point, I fear that he may have a shelf life with regards to keeping his anger issues under wraps, although I hope that I'm wrong. |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jul 6, 2023 21:30:19 GMT
Double post  |
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Post by aghast on Jul 6, 2023 21:34:51 GMT
Or too many always looking for more reasons to accuse him? Embelishing what we can read, just to take it that one step further. No problem, it’s a forum with different views. You differ from me regarding it and I accept that. But to be clear, no embellishment, what I quoted was straight from the FAs report of the hearing JB asked for with his appeal. UTG! I dread to think how far he'd have to go before some on here actually came to the point of condemning him. |
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Post by gasify on Jul 6, 2023 21:35:12 GMT
Football manager in being angry at officials shocker. So what. Shouldn't have been a ban for that. Edit: we were never going to win an appeal though, so unsure what we bothered. Regardless of who it was. Is it acceptable? Should the referees be expected to take this from a manager or a player? Where would you draw a line? Sexist? Rascist? Homophobic? Or are those acceptable by a football manager or a player? What about physical violence? Is a punch in the stomach ok and punch in the face frowned upon? |
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 6, 2023 22:15:24 GMT
No problem, it’s a forum with different views. You differ from me regarding it and I accept that. But to be clear, no embellishment, what I quoted was straight from the FAs report of the hearing JB asked for with his appeal. UTG! You did state to Topper "surely you can see that they restrained him for a reason" - which seemed to imply that you were taking JB's actions to a level which hadn't actually been specified as such. It wouldn't surprise me if Barton does go through that barrier at some point, I fear that he may have a shelf life with regards to keeping his anger issues under wraps, although I hope that I'm wrong. Again Tilly you’re deflecting away from what he did yet you then seem to be agreeing. Very confusing tbh. I wasn’t implying anything just wondering why “Mr. Barton was demonstrating such levels of aggression and anger that he had to be restrained by his own staff.” Those words don’t need me to add anything. He had clearly lost control. UTG! |
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Post by Gastafari on Jul 6, 2023 23:46:35 GMT
Football manager in being angry at officials shocker. So what. Shouldn't have been a ban for that. Edit: we were never going to win an appeal though, so unsure what we bothered. Regardless of who it was. Is it acceptable? Should the referees be expected to take this from a manager or a player? Where would you draw a line? Sexist? Rascist? Homophobic? Or are those acceptable by a football manager or a player? What about physical violence? Is a punch in the stomach ok and punch in the face frowned upon? Every game of Football would be abandoned if refs acted the same everytime they heard the word 'c*nt' on the pitch, a player or manager swore at the ref or a player squared up to another. Nothing to do with condemnation of Joey Barton. I do believe that a lot of officials are little hitlers though. |
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Post by gasify on Jul 7, 2023 0:27:17 GMT
Regardless of who it was. Is it acceptable? Should the referees be expected to take this from a manager or a player? Where would you draw a line? Sexist? Rascist? Homophobic? Or are those acceptable by a football manager or a player? What about physical violence? Is a punch in the stomach ok and punch in the face frowned upon? Nothing to do with condemnation of Joey Barton. I do believe that a lot of officials are little hitlers though. Maybe games should be stopped, the offenders can then be dealt with. It's the acceptance that I feel is wrong. As someone else mentioned on the thread, this is a workplace and shouldn't just be accepted. |
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Post by peterparker on Jul 7, 2023 7:09:38 GMT
Regardless of who it was. Is it acceptable? Should the referees be expected to take this from a manager or a player? Where would you draw a line? Sexist? Rascist? Homophobic? Or are those acceptable by a football manager or a player? What about physical violence? Is a punch in the stomach ok and punch in the face frowned upon? Every game of Football would be abandoned if refs acted the same everytime they heard the word 'c*nt' on the pitch, a player or manager swore at the ref or a player squared up to another. Nothing to do with condemnation of Joey Barton. I do believe that a lot of officials are little hitlers though. It wasn't just calling the ref a c*nt though was it. It was a prolonged verbal attack after he had been sent off |
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Post by phillistine on Jul 7, 2023 7:26:06 GMT
It seems that if you defend Barton on this forum then you are derided despite never having been in trouble yourself or encouraged any form of violent act in your life . I have never worked for a Government body but have been in the private sector where any form of physical affray would have been met with serious discipline - probably dismissal. Football is not like that however in that physicality is the nature of the game and fouls - which are ten a penny - would be considered assault in most other arenas. Roy Keane coldly broke another players leg and ended his career yet is a hero for his punditry and is heralded for his no nonsense attitude on the pitch. Barton however is a hot head and a constant target for the press. Having been 20 feet away from him at every home game since he has been manager he is also a definite target for both opposing players trying to make their mark and also certain officials with something to prove. His criticism of refereeing standards in known and he reaps the rewards . I am not excusing his behaviour but just surprised at Rovers supporters who after all this time still get at him because of the way that he is portrayed in the press rather than the conduct he shows to the fans at the Mem and his after match interviews. He was “ restrained “ means nothing. Had he been trying to physically assault someone as suggested on here thenyou can bet that would have been highlighted . You can restrain someone by telling them to calm down and indeed using the wording in a judgement will discourage people from doing so again as it will be used as evidence in a tribunal. The entire thing is folly and the only way for it to change is for Barton to accept that it happens and try to censor himself .
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I can't think of any occasions where Ferguson was convicted of acts of violence which made his work mates hold him back from repeating offending. Actually I think you are right, any statement from the club is needless as the words often prove to be meaningless. Hopefully though the 50/50 money is safe on this occasion. 
