|
|
Post by fanboy on Oct 23, 2023 14:03:03 GMT
It's only an overreaction if you look at it as a small window of time (in GGMIs example, 2 games!). But even then, if you look at just this season it only tells part of the story. Yes you can make reasonable excuses (new season, new team etc.), but the FACTS are that this dire run of form has been going on for almost an entire year. At the end of the day, the camp you sit in will largely be determined by where you draw that line in the sand; if you draw it from the start of the season or - maybe the last couple of games - you're likely prepared to give him time. If you see it as starting further back, then you've likely already seen enough, or are close to having seen enough. Either is fine - opinions are what it's all about. But we certainly cannot state "it's an overreaction" as some kind of factual statement when, quite clearly, it's not that simple. I think with JB (perhaps more so than any manager I can remember) there is an element of the fanbase (not all, but some) that will forgive him no matter what. I.e., no matter how bad the form got, how long it lasted or even what he did off the field, all would be forgiven. As such, I don't think we'll ever find common ground. He's a very polarising figure and, as I say, there is an element of hardcore support for the man that simply will not waver regardless. I prefer to judge on the performances and I personally rate the RECENT performances in the last 5-10 games, and have seem more than enough to suggest we're going to kick on under JB. Some do not seem to view the recent performances the same as I, I suppose that will always happen, that's a different debate though. |
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on Oct 23, 2023 14:05:52 GMT
It's only an overreaction if you look at it as a small window of time (in GGMIs example, 2 games!). But even then, if you look at just this season it only tells part of the story. Yes you can make reasonable excuses (new season, new team etc.), but the FACTS are that this dire run of form has been going on for almost an entire year. At the end of the day, the camp you sit in will largely be determined by where you draw that line in the sand; if you draw it from the start of the season or - maybe the last couple of games - you're likely prepared to give him time. If you see it as starting further back, then you've likely already seen enough, or are close to having seen enough. Either is fine - opinions are what it's all about. But we certainly cannot state "it's an overreaction" as some kind of factual statement when, quite clearly, it's not that simple. I think with JB (perhaps more so than any manager I can remember) there is an element of the fanbase (not all, but some) that will forgive him no matter what. I.e., no matter how bad the form got, how long it lasted or even what he did off the field, all would be forgiven. As such, I don't think we'll ever find common ground. He's a very polarising figure and, as I say, there is an element of hardcore support for the man that simply will not waver regardless. I think part of the reason he’s being given a bit more slack by fans is that although we’ve had a pretty poor start to the season, we’ve also looked the best side in most games we’ve played. Previous poor runs we’ve had we’ve lost games and looked like we deserved to lose them. Think lots of fans are waiting & hoping for things to click this time …. I’m in that camp as I think we’ve got a good set of players. But….. it’s gotta start pretty damn soon as you can only go on being ‘unlucky’ for so long. It’s a results business and we need to start getting some quickly ! |
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Oct 23, 2023 14:09:57 GMT
Has Manning suffered so many injuries to key defenders, let's be honest none of us would have ever thought Grant would be our main central defender when the season started?
Then we have the cheap reds in the last 2 away games JB has no real control over, JB was a bit unlucky at Oxford but you'd expect Woods to control himself better.
At some point JB has to turn the corner, results wise, assuming the injured players are now, slowly, returning. He really has the next month or so to prove he's up to the task.
|
|
|
|
Post by chewbacca on Oct 23, 2023 14:17:53 GMT
It's only an overreaction if you look at it as a small window of time (in GGMIs example, 2 games!). But even then, if you look at just this season it only tells part of the story. Yes you can make reasonable excuses (new season, new team etc.), but the FACTS are that this dire run of form has been going on for almost an entire year. At the end of the day, the camp you sit in will largely be determined by where you draw that line in the sand; if you draw it from the start of the season or - maybe the last couple of games - you're likely prepared to give him time. If you see it as starting further back, then you've likely already seen enough, or are close to having seen enough. Either is fine - opinions are what it's all about. But we certainly cannot state "it's an overreaction" as some kind of factual statement when, quite clearly, it's not that simple. I think with JB (perhaps more so than any manager I can remember) there is an element of the fanbase (not all, but some) that will forgive him no matter what. I.e., no matter how bad the form got, how long it lasted or even what he did off the field, all would be forgiven. As such, I don't think we'll ever find common ground. He's a very polarising figure and, as I say, there is an element of hardcore support for the man that simply will not waver regardless. I prefer to judge on the performances and I personally rate the RECENT performances in the last 5-10 games, and have seem more than enough to suggest we're going to kick on under JB. Some do not seem to view the recent performances the same as I, I suppose that will always happen, that's a different debate though. I can't really be arsed any more with the nonsense around Barton any more but even look at those 5-10 game brackets it's midtable obscurity... 5 Games - W2 D0 L3 F9 A9 PPG1.2 10 Games - W4 D1 L5 F15 A13 PPG1.3 I don't think it warrants a sacking mid-season but if it continues in a similar vein to the end of the season you're look at a 2-6 point improvement on last year. That might be the catalyst for change. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 14:18:05 GMT
Has Manning suffered so many injuries to key defenders, let's be honest none of us would have ever thought Grant would be our main central defender when the season started? Then we have the cheap reds in the last 2 away games JB has no real control over, JB was a bit unlucky at Oxford but you'd expect Woods to control himself better. At some point JB has to turn the corner, results wise, assuming the injured players are now, slowly, returning. He really has the next month or so to prove he's up to the task. I wonder if Manning signed people like Wilson and Friend with dodgy injury records. |
|
|
|
Post by GasAttacK on Oct 23, 2023 14:22:35 GMT
It's only an overreaction if you look at it as a small window of time (in GGMIs example, 2 games!). But even then, if you look at just this season it only tells part of the story. Yes you can make reasonable excuses (new season, new team etc.), but the FACTS are that this dire run of form has been going on for almost an entire year. At the end of the day, the camp you sit in will largely be determined by where you draw that line in the sand; if you draw it from the start of the season or - maybe the last couple of games - you're likely prepared to give him time. If you see it as starting further back, then you've likely already seen enough, or are close to having seen enough. Either is fine - opinions are what it's all about. But we certainly cannot state "it's an overreaction" as some kind of factual statement when, quite clearly, it's not that simple. I think with JB (perhaps more so than any manager I can remember) there is an element of the fanbase (not all, but some) that will forgive him no matter what. I.e., no matter how bad the form got, how long it lasted or even what he did off the field, all would be forgiven. As such, I don't think we'll ever find common ground. He's a very polarising figure and, as I say, there is an element of hardcore support for the man that simply will not waver regardless. Agree with this. We'd be 18th if not for Wigan's points deduction, just 4 points above the bottom 4. I don't think anyone believes we should be struggling with this seasons squad despite the injuries. The second half of last season was relegation form and our points per game ratio in 2023 is simply not good enough. I also didn't like the way he threw Thomas under the bus again after the game at Peterborough. I'm not in the Barton out camp yet but can understand why some think it's time for a change. Two big games coming up next and I can't say I'm overly confident given our performances against similar opposition this season. |
|
|
|
Post by The Equaliser on Oct 23, 2023 14:54:50 GMT
I prefer to judge on the performances and I personally rate the RECENT performances in the last 5-10 games, and have seem more than enough to suggest we're going to kick on under JB. Some do not seem to view the recent performances the same as I, I suppose that will always happen, that's a different debate though. I can't really be arsed any more with the nonsense around Barton any more but even look at those 5-10 game brackets it's midtable obscurity... 5 Games - W2 D0 L3 F9 A9 PPG1.2 10 Games - W4 D1 L5 F15 A13 PPG1.3 I don't think it warrants a sacking mid-season but if it continues in a similar vein to the end of the season you're look at a 2-6 point improvement on last year. That might be the catalyst for change. Well reasoned post, I’m very much enjoying the games at present but think you make a valid point in your last paragraph there 👍🏾 |
|
|
|
Post by fanboy on Oct 23, 2023 16:04:39 GMT
I prefer to judge on the performances and I personally rate the RECENT performances in the last 5-10 games, and have seem more than enough to suggest we're going to kick on under JB. Some do not seem to view the recent performances the same as I, I suppose that will always happen, that's a different debate though. I can't really be arsed any more with the nonsense around Barton any more but even look at those 5-10 game brackets it's midtable obscurity... 5 Games - W2 D0 L3 F9 A9 PPG1.2 10 Games - W4 D1 L5 F15 A13 PPG1.3 I don't think it warrants a sacking mid-season but if it continues in a similar vein to the end of the season you're look at a 2-6 point improvement on last year. That might be the catalyst for change. If over the course of the season our performances don't get a better points tally then I'd agree, questions should rightly be asked and a change may be forced. But rightly or wrongly I am still confident that these performances will lead to a big improvement in our points tally in the coming weeks and will set us up for a good position this season. |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 23, 2023 16:43:57 GMT
I can't really be arsed any more with the nonsense around Barton any more but even look at those 5-10 game brackets it's midtable obscurity... 5 Games - W2 D0 L3 F9 A9 PPG1.2 10 Games - W4 D1 L5 F15 A13 PPG1.3 I don't think it warrants a sacking mid-season but if it continues in a similar vein to the end of the season you're look at a 2-6 point improvement on last year. That might be the catalyst for change. If over the course of the season our performances don't get a better points tally then I'd agree, questions should rightly be asked and a change may be forced. But rightly or wrongly I am still confident that these performances will lead to a big improvement in our points tally in the coming weeks and will set us up for a good position this season. Our form is similar to how we started the L2 season and we know how that ended. Give him more time. |
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Oct 23, 2023 16:45:04 GMT
Has Manning suffered so many injuries to key defenders, let's be honest none of us would have ever thought Grant would be our main central defender when the season started? Then we have the cheap reds in the last 2 away games JB has no real control over, JB was a bit unlucky at Oxford but you'd expect Woods to control himself better. At some point JB has to turn the corner, results wise, assuming the injured players are now, slowly, returning. He really has the next month or so to prove he's up to the task. I wonder if Manning signed people like Wilson and Friend with dodgy injury records. Jame Wilson played 80 games for Plymouth in two seasons, how is that a dodgy injury record? I sense Friend, like Whelan before him, was brought in for his experience in the dressing room rather than to play 40+ games this season. |
|
|
|
Post by eric on Oct 23, 2023 17:02:54 GMT
Has Manning suffered so many injuries to key defenders, let's be honest none of us would have ever thought Grant would be our main central defender when the season started? Then we have the cheap reds in the last 2 away games JB has no real control over, JB was a bit unlucky at Oxford but you'd expect Woods to control himself better. At some point JB has to turn the corner, results wise, assuming the injured players are now, slowly, returning. He really has the next month or so to prove he's up to the task. I wonder if Manning signed people like Wilson and Friend with dodgy injury records. The opportunity arose to sign a centre back from last years league one champions on a free transfer and after he had played virtually every game in the past two seasons. If JB had turned down that opportunity after our struggles at CB last season and it became public knowledge he would have slaughtered on here |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 17:21:46 GMT
Topper, Manning has has suspensions and injuries, their main striker Harris got a straight red and missed 3 games (free transfer btw) and there best winger Edwards has been out injured and thankfully missed the game against us, it’s part and parcel of being a football manager.
We also have back up bar upfront which is his and Jennings fault. We employ 4 left backs, including Trevor Clarke on the pay roll who he signed, he also signed Gordon who is fit.
Let’s not make our Grant is a rookie CB, he’s played there before and why do people forget that Barton publicly said Hoole should be a CB? Luca could have played the right side of defence.
We have more CM’s than in our history of any squad, bear in mind Grant won promotion for Plymouth playing this position, we have 7 on the pay roll including Rossiter.
I keep using the words pay roll, they are on it, all signed by Barton, no one can blame Tommy.
I’m with Eric on Wilson, we’d be mad to turn him down, but when you are signing 34 (35 in Feb) players you have to expect injuries at some point.
3 right backs, I don’t think I am overreacting, I think RD and others have it spot on, this summer was adding the icing to the cake, where as Manning went out and got new ingredients and cooked a new one at short notice!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 17:30:17 GMT
I wonder if Manning signed people like Wilson and Friend with dodgy injury records. Jame Wilson played 80 games for Plymouth in two seasons, how is that a dodgy injury record? I sense Friend, like Whelan before him, was brought in for his experience in the dressing room rather than to play 40+ games this season. Before that he’s averaged around 25 games a season that’s how it’s a dodgy record |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 17:31:47 GMT
I wonder if Manning signed people like Wilson and Friend with dodgy injury records. The opportunity arose to sign a centre back from last years league one champions on a free transfer and after he had played virtually every game in the past two seasons. If JB had turned down that opportunity after our struggles at CB last season and it became public knowledge he would have slaughtered on here I understand why they signed him and said as much at the time in my gas friendship circles. That still doesn’t change the fact that he’s had a dodgy injury record and probably why we won’t see 30 games out of him this season |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 17:33:09 GMT
You get 3 transfers windows a season as a manager, Barton now in Div1 since promotion has had 4 and our strike force consists of…………Chris Martin
It’s gross dereliction of duty, Overreaction again on my part.
(And I don’t want to hear Collins and Brown can play up front, neither are number 9 and neither are trusted by the manager to play this position)
|
|
|
|
Post by purdownpoacher1 on Oct 23, 2023 17:37:13 GMT
It's only an overreaction if you look at it as a small window of time (in GGMIs example, 2 games!). But even then, if you look at just this season it only tells part of the story. Yes you can make reasonable excuses (new season, new team etc.), but the FACTS are that this dire run of form has been going on for almost an entire year. At the end of the day, the camp you sit in will largely be determined by where you draw that line in the sand; if you draw it from the start of the season or - maybe the last couple of games - you're likely prepared to give him time. If you see it as starting further back, then you've likely already seen enough, or are close to having seen enough. Either is fine - opinions are what it's all about. But we certainly cannot state "it's an overreaction" as some kind of factual statement when, quite clearly, it's not that simple. I think with JB (perhaps more so than any manager I can remember) there is an element of the fanbase (not all, but some) that will forgive him no matter what. I.e., no matter how bad the form got, how long it lasted or even what he did off the field, all would be forgiven. As such, I don't think we'll ever find common ground. He's a very polarising figure and, as I say, there is an element of hardcore support for the man that simply will not waver regardless. Well said. In all this I have not spoken to any fan who does not want us to win every game, contrary to some of the ridiculous statements from some on here. For me, my view, this all started with the very public dressing down of Belshaw and the undermining of his position as first choice. But nearly a year later here we are. Another public dressing down (Thomas), still 17th. Another heavy defeat. With regards to Luke Thomas, he has had previous dressings down with JB it didn’t stop him actively wanting to rejoin us- can’t have been much damage done by JB regarding LT 🤔💙UTG |
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Oct 23, 2023 18:03:31 GMT
Well said. In all this I have not spoken to any fan who does not want us to win every game, contrary to some of the ridiculous statements from some on here. For me, my view, this all started with the very public dressing down of Belshaw and the undermining of his position as first choice. But nearly a year later here we are. Another public dressing down (Thomas), still 17th. Another heavy defeat. With regards to Luke Thomas, he has had previous dressings down with JB it didn’t stop him actively wanting to rejoin us- can’t have been much damage done by JB regarding LT 🤔💙UTG He is injured isn't he? |
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Oct 23, 2023 18:06:26 GMT
You get 3 transfers windows a season as a manager, Barton now in Div1 since promotion has had 4 and our strike force consists of…………Chris Martin It’s gross dereliction of duty, Overreaction again on my part. (And I don’t want to hear Collins and Brown can play up front, neither are number 9 and neither are trusted by the manager to play this position) How can JB be blamed for the fact the club messed up signing JCH, you have to assume that on transfer deadline day he was under the impression JCH was joining us so there was no need for Plan B or C at that stage. Unless your now going to suggest JB was in on the plot not to proceed with the deal when it came to the crunch? Regardless John Marquis is also part of the strike force, I doubt many L1 teams would have a better strike force than JCH & JM, with Collins, Brown, LT & SS to play alongside them. |
|
|
|
Post by gulfofaden on Oct 23, 2023 18:22:34 GMT
We all seem to turn into nasty bits of work when we’re losing games.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 18:22:55 GMT
My mistake re Marquis, hands up 🙌🏼
Re JCH, we bid for the Charlton lad before the Kuwaiti’s came in, where was our 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice?
And other sides like the one up here signed two very good free transfer signings.
You mention JCH Topper as well, he was our 4th window, where are the strikers from the previous three windows? Manning has had only ONE window
Did you go to Peterborough Topper? JCH isn’t the player we used to know, he’s bulked up and less mobile, he doesn’t press either which Barton loves, he wasn’t the answer to all our problems and where is the depth of he got injured?
|
|
