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Post by Gastafari on Dec 6, 2023 1:56:24 GMT
Personally I don't think we have as good a squad as has been made out. I also take what Taylor has said about it being a good squad with a pinch of salt?. It wouldn't surprise me to see quite a bit of movement in the next window. Personally think there's half a dozen players there that if we are to challenge aren't good enough for what we want. I think we do.
We're just missing some crucial components.
I think the majority of this overall squad, man for man is better than the one Holloway had, for example.
That Holloway squad for the first few years had Hayles, Roberts, Cureton plus a young Nathan Ellington.
Put any of those in this squad and we are winning this league quite easily imo.
When Cureton and Roberts were both sold, the squad sunk like a stone, which was pretty much the same team bar those two. Steve Foster, Andy Thomson, Trevor Challis; Robbie Pethick, Ronnie Mauge, Simon Bryant, Lewis Hogg, The Latvian, Mark Walters and Nathan Ellington etc just off the top of my head.
This side is mid table League 1 without goalscorers, a lot of that Holloway squad without it's strikers either out of form or sold went from top of League 1 to 2nd bottom of the entire Football League within 18 months.
I think this is actually the best overall squad since 1990, it just needs certain improvements in crucial positions and a manager who can get the best out of them.
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Post by gas2 on Dec 6, 2023 2:19:20 GMT
What has Taylor got on his coaching staff is it the same as before ?
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Post by RD on Dec 6, 2023 5:55:38 GMT
Personally I don't think we have as good a squad as has been made out. I also take what Taylor has said about it being a good squad with a pinch of salt?. It wouldn't surprise me to see quite a bit of movement in the next window. Personally think there's half a dozen players there that if we are to challenge aren't good enough for what we want. I think we do.
We're just missing some crucial components.
I think the majority of this overall squad, man for man is better than the one Holloway had, for example.
That Holloway squad for the first few years had Hayles, Roberts, Cureton plus a young Nathan Ellington.
Put any of those in this squad and we are winning this league quite easily imo.
When Cureton and Roberts were both sold, the squad sunk like a stone, which was pretty much the same team bar those two. Steve Foster, Andy Thomson, Trevor Challis; Robbie Pethick, Ronnie Mauge, Simon Bryant, Lewis Hogg, The Latvian, Mark Walters and Nathan Ellington etc just off the top of my head.
This side is mid table League 1 without goalscorers, a lot of that Holloway squad without it's strikers either out of form or sold went from top of League 1 to 2nd bottom of the entire Football League within 18 months.
I think this is actually the best overall squad since 1990, it just needs certain improvements in crucial positions and a manager who can get the best out of them.
😂 behave |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 6, 2023 6:29:40 GMT
I think we do.
We're just missing some crucial components.
I think the majority of this overall squad, man for man is better than the one Holloway had, for example.
That Holloway squad for the first few years had Hayles, Roberts, Cureton plus a young Nathan Ellington.
Put any of those in this squad and we are winning this league quite easily imo.
When Cureton and Roberts were both sold, the squad sunk like a stone, which was pretty much the same team bar those two. Steve Foster, Andy Thomson, Trevor Challis; Robbie Pethick, Ronnie Mauge, Simon Bryant, Lewis Hogg, The Latvian, Mark Walters and Nathan Ellington etc just off the top of my head.
This side is mid table League 1 without goalscorers, a lot of that Holloway squad without it's strikers either out of form or sold went from top of League 1 to 2nd bottom of the entire Football League within 18 months.
I think this is actually the best overall squad since 1990, it just needs certain improvements in crucial positions and a manager who can get the best out of them.
😂 behave At least try and put up an argument.
The Holloway team proved that it was actually poor without Cureton and Roberts, as it went from Top of League 1 to bottom of league 2 rapidly, with more or less the same bunch of players
Similar to John Wards squad too, again it had Marcus Stewart and Gareth Taylor, goalscorers, which this side lacks.
However if you look at the pedigree of a lot of this squad, its a better overall squad.
Put Marcus Stewart, Barry Hayles, Cureton or Roberts in this team and we'd be getting promoted with ease.
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Post by kylegas on Dec 6, 2023 6:38:44 GMT
Personally I don't think we have as good a squad as has been made out. I also take what Taylor has said about it being a good squad with a pinch of salt?. It wouldn't surprise me to see quite a bit of movement in the next window. Personally think there's half a dozen players there that if we are to challenge aren't good enough for what we want. I think we do.
We're just missing some crucial components.
I think the majority of this overall squad, man for man is better than the one Holloway had, for example.
That Holloway squad for the first few years had Hayles, Roberts, Cureton plus a young Nathan Ellington.
Put any of those in this squad and we are winning this league quite easily imo.
When Cureton and Roberts were both sold, the squad sunk like a stone, which was pretty much the same team bar those two. Steve Foster, Andy Thomson, Trevor Challis; Robbie Pethick, Ronnie Mauge, Simon Bryant, Lewis Hogg, The Latvian, Mark Walters and Nathan Ellington etc just off the top of my head.
This side is mid table League 1 without goalscorers, a lot of that Holloway squad without it's strikers either out of form or sold went from top of League 1 to 2nd bottom of the entire Football League within 18 months.
I think this is actually the best overall squad since 1990, it just needs certain improvements in crucial positions and a manager who can get the best out of them.
Andy Tilson also left the same time as Roberts and Cureton which made a huge difference to our defence, think Pethick did as well didn’t he as we then had Marcus Bignot for the relegation season. Our defence was weak without Tilson leading Foster and Thomson from what I remember. But I still agree with your point, we’re a few key components away from having it right. Just hope Taylor is the man to do it |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 8:09:27 GMT
At least try and put up an argument.
The Holloway team proved that it was actually poor without Cureton and Roberts, as it went from Top of League 1 to bottom of league 2 rapidly, with more or less the same bunch of players
Similar to John Wards squad too, again it had Marcus Stewart and Gareth Taylor, goalscorers, which this side lacks.
However if you look at the pedigree of a lot of this squad, its a better overall squad.
Put Marcus Stewart, Barry Hayles, Cureton or Roberts in this team and we'd be getting promoted with ease.
As well as Roberts and Cureton…. Pritchard and mauge also came out the side due to injuries. Tilly left. The keeper changed. Walters was a year older. Hillier barely played due to injury. Pethick missed over half a season due to injury. Other than that it was the exact same side |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 6, 2023 8:38:47 GMT
At least try and put up an argument.
The Holloway team proved that it was actually poor without Cureton and Roberts, as it went from Top of League 1 to bottom of league 2 rapidly, with more or less the same bunch of players
Similar to John Wards squad too, again it had Marcus Stewart and Gareth Taylor, goalscorers, which this side lacks.
However if you look at the pedigree of a lot of this squad, its a better overall squad.
Put Marcus Stewart, Barry Hayles, Cureton or Roberts in this team and we'd be getting promoted with ease.
As well as Roberts and Cureton…. Pritchard and mauge also came out the side due to injuries. Tilly left. The keeper changed. Walters was a year older. Hillier barely played due to injury. Pethick missed over half a season due to injury. Other than that it was the exact same side I didn't say it was exactly the same team. I said it was pretty much the same team. Even if you take out Mauge, Pritch & pethick. 7 of those players I mentioned we're all in the squad that screwed up promotion the year before. Either way, it's actually highlighting my point, that squad wasn't that great. Once the goals dried up, and Mauge was out, it couldn't cope and rapidly declined. This current squad has far more depth to it overall. Again as I've said before put the strikers we had at our disposal then,in this squad, we'd go up with ease imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 8:43:45 GMT
As well as Roberts and Cureton…. Pritchard and mauge also came out the side due to injuries. Tilly left. The keeper changed. Walters was a year older. Hillier barely played due to injury. Pethick missed over half a season due to injury. Other than that it was the exact same side I didn't say it was exactly the same team. I said it was pretty much the same team. Even if you take out Mauge, Pritch & pethick. 7 of those players I mentioned we're all in the squad that screwed up promotion the year before. Either way, it's actually highlighting my point, that squad wasn't that great. Once the goals dried up, and Mauge was out, it couldn't cope and rapidly declined. This current squad has far more depth to it overall. Again as I've said before put the strikers we had at our disposal then,in this squad, we'd go up with ease imo. I disagree. We’ve got a squad full of players who are mentally weak. Even with a goalscorer this lot aren’t top 6 imo. Opinions,assholes etc It wasn’t just the goals taken out btw. It was the keeper, the best centre half, the midfield dominator and the goals. |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 6, 2023 9:00:16 GMT
I didn't say it was exactly the same team. I said it was pretty much the same team. Even if you take out Mauge, Pritch & pethick. 7 of those players I mentioned we're all in the squad that screwed up promotion the year before. Either way, it's actually highlighting my point, that squad wasn't that great. Once the goals dried up, and Mauge was out, it couldn't cope and rapidly declined. This current squad has far more depth to it overall. Again as I've said before put the strikers we had at our disposal then,in this squad, we'd go up with ease imo. I disagree. We’ve got a squad full of players who are mentally weak. Even with a goalscorer this lot aren’t top 6 imo. Opinions,assholes etc It wasn’t just the goals taken out btw. It was the keeper, the best centre half, the midfield dominator and the goals. Indeed all about opinions. I would say that Holloway team that went from 1st to 7th in the space of about a month, was incredibly weak mentally. Not only that but the team that got bullied away at Northampton in the Play Offs a couple of seasons before that was 3-0 up in the Home Leg until the last few minutes. Andy Tilson was the captain of that team that crumbled so spectacularly both times. So don't think losing him the following season is much as an excuse. Losing Ronnie Mauge to injury, is no excuse for the side to implode the way it did either. This teams midtable even without clinical goalscorers, that's enough evidence for me to suggest that even with one proven goalscorer, let alone two, we'd be getting promoted imo. |
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Post by wallywalters on Dec 6, 2023 9:10:47 GMT
To be honest I think we need a clinical goalscorer just to keep us out of any relegation bother now as without one I can see us getting drawn into the league positions from 14th-19th with our upcoming run of games.
The Cheltenham game now takes on a huge importance and we need 3 points to steady us for the tough run of Xmas games.
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Post by oldie on Dec 6, 2023 9:14:06 GMT
I disagree. We’ve got a squad full of players who are mentally weak. Even with a goalscorer this lot aren’t top 6 imo. Opinions,assholes etc It wasn’t just the goals taken out btw. It was the keeper, the best centre half, the midfield dominator and the goals. Indeed all about opinions. I would say that Holloway team that went from 1st to 7th in the space of about a month, was incredibly weak mentally. Andy Tilson was the captain of that team that crumbled so spectacularly. So don't think losing him the following season is much as an excuse. Losing Ronnie Mauge to injury, is no excuse for the side to implode the way it did either. This teams midtable even without clinical goalscorers, that's enough evidence for me to suggest that even with one proven goalscorer, let alone two, we'd be getting promoted imo. As I recall the demise that season had deeper roots than that. There was some unhappiness about pay given the performances and that after Mauge was injured the failure to replace him many in the squad believed the board were not commited to promotion. These were ambitious young men, particularly Roberts, Cureton and Ellington. All of whom wanted to play in the newly formed Championship. Believing they were not serious, the board that is, they gave up. For me the proof of that was when, during that period of "giving up" that team dicked City 2-0 at ours...one for the fans I felt in reflection later. I said at the time and it's true now, perhaps even more so. What goes on in the boardroom ends up on the pitch. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 9:20:47 GMT
I disagree. We’ve got a squad full of players who are mentally weak. Even with a goalscorer this lot aren’t top 6 imo. Opinions,assholes etc It wasn’t just the goals taken out btw. It was the keeper, the best centre half, the midfield dominator and the goals. Indeed all about opinions. I would say that Holloway team that went from 1st to 7th in the space of about a month, was incredibly weak mentally. Not only that but the team that got bullied away at Northampton in the Play Offs a couple of seasons before that was 3-0 up in the Home Leg until the last few minutes. Andy Tilson was the captain of that team that crumbled so spectacularly both times. So don't think losing him the following season is much as an excuse. Losing Ronnie Mauge to injury, is no excuse for the side to implode the way it did either. This teams midtable even without clinical goalscorers, that's enough evidence for me to suggest that even with one proven goalscorer, let alone two, we'd be getting promoted imo. didn't help by some strange tactics at the time either. Playing Andy Thompson in midfield made mcghee look like pep |
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Post by oldie on Dec 6, 2023 9:22:23 GMT
Indeed all about opinions. I would say that Holloway team that went from 1st to 7th in the space of about a month, was incredibly weak mentally. Not only that but the team that got bullied away at Northampton in the Play Offs a couple of seasons before that was 3-0 up in the Home Leg until the last few minutes. Andy Tilson was the captain of that team that crumbled so spectacularly both times. So don't think losing him the following season is much as an excuse. Losing Ronnie Mauge to injury, is no excuse for the side to implode the way it did either. This teams midtable even without clinical goalscorers, that's enough evidence for me to suggest that even with one proven goalscorer, let alone two, we'd be getting promoted imo. didn't help by some strange tactics at the time either. Playing Andy Thompson in midfield made mcghee look like pep After Mauge was injured I think |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 6, 2023 9:39:28 GMT
Indeed all about opinions. I would say that Holloway team that went from 1st to 7th in the space of about a month, was incredibly weak mentally. Andy Tilson was the captain of that team that crumbled so spectacularly. So don't think losing him the following season is much as an excuse. Losing Ronnie Mauge to injury, is no excuse for the side to implode the way it did either. This teams midtable even without clinical goalscorers, that's enough evidence for me to suggest that even with one proven goalscorer, let alone two, we'd be getting promoted imo. As I recall the demise that season had deeper roots than that. There was some unhappiness about pay given the performances and that after Mauge was injured the failure to replace him many in the squad believed the board were not commited to promotion. These were ambitious young men, particularly Roberts, Cureton and Ellington. All of whom wanted to play in the newly formed Championship. Believing they were not serious, the board that is, they gave up. For me the proof of that was when, during that period of "giving up" that team dicked City 2-0 at ours...one for the fans I felt in reflection later. I said at the time and it's true now, perhaps even more so. What goes on in the boardroom ends up on the pitch. I don't disagree with a lot of that. Looking back at the fixtures though, after Mauge got injured we beat Luton & Oldham away 4-1 back to back and were actually unbeaten for the next 8 games following his injury. So I'm not sure his absence was as big an impact as people make out. We'd also just signed The Latvian, looking back surely that was a sign of intent? Also the last 6 games of the season we played 5 of the bottom 8 sides. 2 out of the final 3 games were against Blackpool & Cardiff who were both relegated. City was the other game amongst that lot. Behind the scenes stuff or not, no excuse for that implosion. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 9:45:52 GMT
As I recall the demise that season had deeper roots than that. There was some unhappiness about pay given the performances and that after Mauge was injured the failure to replace him many in the squad believed the board were not commited to promotion. These were ambitious young men, particularly Roberts, Cureton and Ellington. All of whom wanted to play in the newly formed Championship. Believing they were not serious, the board that is, they gave up. For me the proof of that was when, during that period of "giving up" that team dicked City 2-0 at ours...one for the fans I felt in reflection later. I said at the time and it's true now, perhaps even more so. What goes on in the boardroom ends up on the pitch. I don't disagree with a lot of that. Looking back at the fixtures though, after Mauge got injured we beat Luton & Oldham away 4-1 back to back and were actually unbeaten for the next 8 games following his injury. So I'm not sure his absence was as big an impact as people make out. Also the last 6 games of the season we played 5 of the bottom 8 sides. 2 out of the final 3 games were against Blackpool & Cardiff who were both relegated. City was the other game amongst that lot. Behind the scenes stuff or not, no excuse for that implosion. it wasn't just the players who had their eye elsewhere that season |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 9:51:58 GMT
Indeed all about opinions. I would say that Holloway team that went from 1st to 7th in the space of about a month, was incredibly weak mentally. Andy Tilson was the captain of that team that crumbled so spectacularly. So don't think losing him the following season is much as an excuse. Losing Ronnie Mauge to injury, is no excuse for the side to implode the way it did either. This teams midtable even without clinical goalscorers, that's enough evidence for me to suggest that even with one proven goalscorer, let alone two, we'd be getting promoted imo. As I recall the demise that season had deeper roots than that. There was some unhappiness about pay given the performances and that after Mauge was injured the failure to replace him many in the squad believed the board were not commited to promotion. These were ambitious young men, particularly Roberts, Cureton and Ellington. All of whom wanted to play in the newly formed Championship. Believing they were not serious, the board that is, they gave up. For me the proof of that was when, during that period of "giving up" that team dicked City 2-0 at ours...one for the fans I felt in reflection later. I said at the time and it's true now, perhaps even more so. What goes on in the boardroom ends up on the pitch. You can blame Peter beadle for turning Roberts and Curo’s head |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 6, 2023 9:54:33 GMT
Indeed all about opinions. I would say that Holloway team that went from 1st to 7th in the space of about a month, was incredibly weak mentally. Not only that but the team that got bullied away at Northampton in the Play Offs a couple of seasons before that was 3-0 up in the Home Leg until the last few minutes. Andy Tilson was the captain of that team that crumbled so spectacularly both times. So don't think losing him the following season is much as an excuse. Losing Ronnie Mauge to injury, is no excuse for the side to implode the way it did either. This teams midtable even without clinical goalscorers, that's enough evidence for me to suggest that even with one proven goalscorer, let alone two, we'd be getting promoted imo. didn't help by some strange tactics at the time either. Playing Andy Thompson in midfield made mcghee look like pep Again highlights my point. Pritch played in midfield a fair bit as well. Lee Zabek, Simon Bryant and Lewis Hogg were all youngsters too, who within a couple of years were playing local league Football. Not much depth was there? Compare that to Anthony Evans, Grant Ward, Sam Finley, Bogarde, Ryan Woods, Luke McCormick and Rossiter(If he ever gets fit). |
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Post by Gastafari on Dec 6, 2023 9:55:22 GMT
As I recall the demise that season had deeper roots than that. There was some unhappiness about pay given the performances and that after Mauge was injured the failure to replace him many in the squad believed the board were not commited to promotion. These were ambitious young men, particularly Roberts, Cureton and Ellington. All of whom wanted to play in the newly formed Championship. Believing they were not serious, the board that is, they gave up. For me the proof of that was when, during that period of "giving up" that team dicked City 2-0 at ours...one for the fans I felt in reflection later. I said at the time and it's true now, perhaps even more so. What goes on in the boardroom ends up on the pitch. You can blame Peter beadle for turning Roberts and Curo’s head Indeed. I'd call that a weak mentality. Completely downed tools. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 9:58:57 GMT
You can blame Peter beadle for turning Roberts and Curo’s head Indeed. I'd call that a weak mentality. Completely downed tools. So would I but it doesn’t change the fact this squad are mentally weak as well |
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 6, 2023 10:15:14 GMT
At least try and put up an argument.
The Holloway team proved that it was actually poor without Cureton and Roberts, as it went from Top of League 1 to bottom of league 2 rapidly, with more or less the same bunch of players
Similar to John Wards squad too, again it had Marcus Stewart and Gareth Taylor, goalscorers, which this side lacks.
However if you look at the pedigree of a lot of this squad, its a better overall squad.
Put Marcus Stewart, Barry Hayles, Cureton or Roberts in this team and we'd be getting promoted with ease.
I do get your point but if you look at the squad now and their abilities and compare them to 2000 there is glaring holes. We dont have a defender remotely in the same mould as Tilson. We dont have any full backs as battle hardened as Pritch and Thompson were. We dont possess anyone in the middle as creative as the Latvian was or as tough as Mauge was. We dont have anyone with a good a footballing brain as Walters had which made up for any lack of pace he had. We have no strikers that are able to finish guilt edge chances let alone half chances like Rovers/Cureton/Ellington were. I said all the way back at the start of the season that we were light in midfield, on the left both at LB and LW and up front. |
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