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Post by yattongas on Aug 7, 2024 12:25:06 GMT
Haha you really buying into that nonsense ? It’s far right racists along with local feral scumbags out for a ruck and a bit of possible looting …. And of course the chance to stone a copper . Stop buying into right wing lines 🙄 I'm not buying into any nonsense,I am capable of differentiating between what is plainly unlawful and that there are many people who feel not listened to or do you think the whole 4m who voted Reform are all Right wing racists,you may not like their politics or views but it doesn't mean they can't peacefully protest if they want to. They had their chance at the last election to be listened to…. They got only 5 Mp’s. Or do you and the others who’ve liked your post think we as a society should kowtow to their racist demands ? Think I’ll leave this section of the forum for a while as reading some of the opinions on here is doing my head in 😂🙄
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Post by supergas on Aug 7, 2024 12:27:05 GMT
Haha you really buying into that nonsense ? It’s far right racists along with local feral scumbags out for a ruck and a bit of possible looting …. And of course the chance to stone a copper . Stop buying into right wing lines 🙄 I'm not buying into any nonsense,I am capable of differentiating between what is plainly unlawful and that there are many people who feel not listened to or do you think the whole 4m who voted Reform are all Right wing racists,you may not like their politics or views but it doesn't mean they can't peacefully protest if they want to. 4.1m people voted for Reform, more than six times the number that voted for the previous incarnation of that party in 2019 and only 125k fewer than the Lib Dem/SNP total vote in 2024. You're correct, the country needs a sensible debate on immigration. It shouldn't be a taboo subject, directly or indirectly it affects everyone and yet more and more online you can't even raise the issue without being told you're a racist/fascist or at least being labelled politically somewhere to the right of Pinochet. Australia has had a similar issue over the last couple of decades - it has reached a sensible solution that is far stricter than anything Reform is proposing yet no one from any part of the political spectrum seriously want's to relax it again... ...the country needs a sensible debate on the welfare system, since Labour seem to be heading towards the same levels of over/underspending with no increase in efficiency - the only difference seems to be who's paying more in and who's getting more/less out...
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Post by supergas on Aug 7, 2024 12:31:00 GMT
I'm not buying into any nonsense,I am capable of differentiating between what is plainly unlawful and that there are many people who feel not listened to or do you think the whole 4m who voted Reform are all Right wing racists,you may not like their politics or views but it doesn't mean they can't peacefully protest if they want to. They had their chance at the last election to be listened to…. They got only 5 Mp’s. Or do you and the others who’ve liked your post think we as a society should kowtow to their racist demands ? Think I’ll leave this section of the forum for a while as reading some of the opinions on here is doing my head in 😂🙄 Which specific Reform demands are racist? Links to the actual manifesto would be ideal but anything that's actually a policy proposal will do.
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Post by trevorgas on Aug 7, 2024 13:10:08 GMT
I'm not buying into any nonsense,I am capable of differentiating between what is plainly unlawful and that there are many people who feel not listened to or do you think the whole 4m who voted Reform are all Right wing racists,you may not like their politics or views but it doesn't mean they can't peacefully protest if they want to. They had their chance at the last election to be listened to…. They got only 5 Mp’s. Or do you and the others who’ve liked your post think we as a society should kowtow to their racist demands ? Think I’ll leave this section of the forum for a while as reading some of the opinions on here is doing my head in 😂🙄 Sometimes your hard work ,I have not said anywhere that racist demands should be met,I am arguing for a right to peaceful protest for anyone,left ,centre or right and I believe it's very unhelpful to label a whole group of people racist because they are sick and tired of the same old Party's and vote for something else. That's what's wrong with this Country if you don't agree ,there is no sensible debate,it's childish and needs to change.
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Post by aghast on Aug 7, 2024 13:20:47 GMT
What are they protesting about that should be peaceful ? There are a lot of people who feel disenfranchised,feel the Welfare system is unfair and are concerned at the level of immigration,if they wish to protest peacefully then they have the right to do so. But it won't be peaceful, even if substantial numbers of peaceful Reform voters are there, because the right wing extremists and other hooligans will be joining them. So it's a case of managing it and keeping a lid on the trouble. Some violence is.just inevitable I think. Possibly also from counter protestors.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 7, 2024 14:02:28 GMT
I'm not buying into any nonsense,I am capable of differentiating between what is plainly unlawful and that there are many people who feel not listened to or do you think the whole 4m who voted Reform are all Right wing racists,you may not like their politics or views but it doesn't mean they can't peacefully protest if they want to. They had their chance at the last election to be listened to…. They got only 5 Mp’s. Or do you and the others who’ve liked your post think we as a society should kowtow to their racist demands ? Think I’ll leave this section of the forum for a while as reading some of the opinions on here is doing my head in 😂🙄 We absolutely should not bow down to the racist pricks, but we should defend everyone's right to PEACEFUL protest. It is a basic human right even if some of them appear sub-human.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 7, 2024 14:04:16 GMT
They had their chance at the last election to be listened to…. They got only 5 Mp’s. Or do you and the others who’ve liked your post think we as a society should kowtow to their racist demands ? Think I’ll leave this section of the forum for a while as reading some of the opinions on here is doing my head in 😂🙄 Which specific Reform demands are racist? Links to the actual manifesto would be ideal but anything that's actually a policy proposal will do. Not all reform voters are racist, but a lot of racist people vote reform.
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Post by trevorgas on Aug 7, 2024 14:16:19 GMT
There are a lot of people who feel disenfranchised,feel the Welfare system is unfair and are concerned at the level of immigration,if they wish to protest peacefully then they have the right to do so. But it won't be peaceful, even if substantial numbers of peaceful Reform voters are there, because the right wing extremists and other hooligans will be joining them. So it's a case of managing it and keeping a lid on the trouble. Some violence is.just inevitable I think. Possibly also from counter protestors. Sadly you are probably right
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 7, 2024 14:28:34 GMT
She let the mask slip , probably after a few wines in her front room . The combination of sunshine and alcohol does make British people go crazy. Roll on the Autumn with rain.
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 7, 2024 14:32:01 GMT
What are they protesting about that should be peaceful ? There are a lot of people who feel disenfranchised,feel the Welfare system is unfair and are concerned at the level of immigration,if they wish to protest peacefully then they have the right to do so. The responsibility of government and politicians of all colours (Farage et al, I'm looking at you) to ensure that they are addressed and that one doesn't automatically mean the other is disadvantaged.
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 7, 2024 14:35:09 GMT
There are a lot of people who feel disenfranchised,feel the Welfare system is unfair and are concerned at the level of immigration,if they wish to protest peacefully then they have the right to do so. Haha you really buying into that nonsense ? It’s far right racists along with local feral scumbags out for a ruck and a bit of possible looting …. And of course the chance to stone a copper . Stop buying into right wing lines 🙄 Don't confuse those with genuine concerns, no matter how disconnected to immigration, with thugs. Otherwise we are just storing up problems that the real nutters like Robinson will exploit. We do ourselves no favours by ignoring those left behind.
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Post by trevorgas on Aug 7, 2024 14:48:01 GMT
There are a lot of people who feel disenfranchised,feel the Welfare system is unfair and are concerned at the level of immigration,if they wish to protest peacefully then they have the right to do so. The responsibility of government and politicians of all colours (Farage et al, I'm looking at you) to ensure that they are addressed and that one doesn't automatically mean the other is disadvantaged. Absolutely correct
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Post by aghast on Aug 7, 2024 16:36:39 GMT
As supporters of freedom to demonstrate are quick to defend that right, and given many of our cities, including Bristol, seem to have shut up shop, literally, I wonder how this squares with the long prison sentences given to the climate protestors who shut motorways?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 7, 2024 17:32:48 GMT
As supporters of freedom to demonstrate are quick to defend that right, and given many of our cities, including Bristol, seem to have shut up shop, literally, I wonder how this squares with the long prison sentences given to the climate protestors who shut motorways? I think that depends on the means of protest. An organised and publicised demonstration is OK. Stopping traffic (thereby potentially causing problems for emergency services) is not. Causing criminal damage is already legislated and is a crime. As are hate crimes, assault, theft, arson etc. I'd expect equity in terms of sentences for people who break the law, whether they are left, right, against oil or protesting for improved human rights etc. The law, while not perfect is (or should be) impartial.
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Post by aghast on Aug 7, 2024 17:39:30 GMT
As supporters of freedom to demonstrate are quick to defend that right, and given many of our cities, including Bristol, seem to have shut up shop, literally, I wonder how this squares with the long prison sentences given to the climate protestors who shut motorways? I think that depends on the means of protest. An organised and publicised demonstration is OK. Stopping traffic (thereby potentially causing problems for emergency services) is not. Causing criminal damage is already legislated and is a crime. As are hate crimes, assault, theft, arson etc. I'd expect equity in terms of sentences for people who break the law, whether they are left, right, against oil or protesting for improved human rights etc. The law, while not perfect is (or should be) impartial. But what if the police have intelligence reports that the protests are very likely to descend into violence? Which of course they are. Not quite the point I started with, but still.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 7, 2024 17:45:23 GMT
I think that depends on the means of protest. An organised and publicised demonstration is OK. Stopping traffic (thereby potentially causing problems for emergency services) is not. Causing criminal damage is already legislated and is a crime. As are hate crimes, assault, theft, arson etc. I'd expect equity in terms of sentences for people who break the law, whether they are left, right, against oil or protesting for improved human rights etc. The law, while not perfect is (or should be) impartial. But what if the police have intelligence reports that the protests are very likely to descend into violence? Which of course they are. Not quite the point I started with, but still. I dont know enough to answer that, but I assume the police have the powers to detain any individuals who they have solid intelligence on? If not, then perhaps new powers would be needed. The answer isn't just a blanket ban on all protests. We are not China or Russia.
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Post by aghast on Aug 7, 2024 18:04:55 GMT
But what if the police have intelligence reports that the protests are very likely to descend into violence? Which of course they are. Not quite the point I started with, but still. I dont know enough to answer that, but I assume the police have the powers to detain any individuals who they have solid intelligence on? If not, then perhaps new powers would be needed. The answer isn't just a blanket ban on all protests. We are not China or Russia. Just to clarify, I don't support banning protests. I think they should be allowed to go ahead if properly policed. But the climate protestors faced the full force of the establishment cracking down on them and the sentences were way too harsh, in my opinion. It was an unauthorised protest admittedly, but was peaceful, if disruptive. Tonight's forthcoming disruptive trouble is also unauthorised, but I doubt if anyone will be sentenced to four years just for being there. But many people say on the one hand the motorway protestors deserve everything they had coming, and at the same time defend the stop the boats participants. Odd.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 7, 2024 18:17:14 GMT
I dont know enough to answer that, but I assume the police have the powers to detain any individuals who they have solid intelligence on? If not, then perhaps new powers would be needed. The answer isn't just a blanket ban on all protests. We are not China or Russia. Just to clarify, I don't support banning protests. I think they should be allowed to go ahead if properly policed. But the climate protestors faced the full force of the establishment cracking down on them and the sentences were way too harsh, in my opinion. It was an unauthorised protest admittedly, but was peaceful, if disruptive. Tonight's forthcoming disruptive trouble is also unauthorised, but I doubt if anyone will be sentenced to four years just for being there. But many people say on the one hand the motorway protestors deserve everything they had coming, and at the same time defend the stop the boats participants. Odd. I'm not sure where I read it, but my understanding was that JSO protesters who got long sentences were repeat offenders and had previous warnings against them. I wish I could remember where I read it so I could cite the sourse. I am fairly sure no one got a long sentence for just turning up to a one off event and were then just plucked out of the crowd with no warning by the police.
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Post by aghast on Aug 7, 2024 18:25:28 GMT
Just to clarify, I don't support banning protests. I think they should be allowed to go ahead if properly policed. But the climate protestors faced the full force of the establishment cracking down on them and the sentences were way too harsh, in my opinion. It was an unauthorised protest admittedly, but was peaceful, if disruptive. Tonight's forthcoming disruptive trouble is also unauthorised, but I doubt if anyone will be sentenced to four years just for being there. But many people say on the one hand the motorway protestors deserve everything they had coming, and at the same time defend the stop the boats participants. Odd. I'm not sure where I read it, but my understanding was that JSO protesters who got long sentences were repeat offenders and had previous warnings against them. I wish I could remember where I read it so I could cite the sourse. I am fairly sure no one got a long sentence for just turning up to a one off event and were then just plucked out of the crowd with no warning by the police. Ok that may well be true, and probably is. But I still think there's a two tier judgement of what is an acceptable protest and what isn't, based not on the protest, but what they stand for.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 7, 2024 19:02:31 GMT
I'm not sure where I read it, but my understanding was that JSO protesters who got long sentences were repeat offenders and had previous warnings against them. I wish I could remember where I read it so I could cite the sourse. I am fairly sure no one got a long sentence for just turning up to a one off event and were then just plucked out of the crowd with no warning by the police. Ok that may well be true, and probably is. But I still think there's a two tier judgement of what is an acceptable protest and what isn't, based not on the protest, but what they stand for. I've no doubt you are right.
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