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Post by gasify on Apr 5, 2024 5:36:22 GMT
Getting back to the OP, I don't think the ban is fair. The club could have contacted her and had a discussion, although I'm not sure what base they would be coming from, as the Police had decided that she hadn't broken any law. The OP was about a Wrexham fan being banned. I absolutely think that was the correct thing to do. He did seem to be out for a ruck with his actions of getting his mates and going back for more. This is a football banning order and would mean he has to hand in his passport when there international tournaments. The second situation is a club ban, rather than a banning order. So what is the discussion? Can a club ban someone? or do they have to sell a ticket to anyone? |
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Post by gasify on Apr 5, 2024 5:40:33 GMT
We are going over old ground that I still don't think you are able to substantiate. All I need is a couple of links to credible sources that says he was a paedophile. Two is fine. I mean I literally posted an excerpt from his own book showing the results of a test in which they molested infants. Yes, you posted a link to the book and the subject of that book absolutely shows that child molestation took place. However, you haven't proved in any way shape or form that Kinsey designed these experiments and was involved in the molestation himself. Which is your claim. If someone is murdered, does that mean the scientist doing the autopsy is a murderer? |
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Post by orgasmic on Apr 5, 2024 6:20:56 GMT
I mean I literally posted an excerpt from his own book showing the results of a test in which they molested infants. Yes, you posted a link to the book and the subject of that book absolutely shows that child molestation took place. However, you haven't proved in any way shape or form that Kinsey designed these experiments and was involved in the molestation himself. Which is your claim. If someone is murdered, does that mean the scientist doing the autopsy is a murderer? My claim was actually that gender ideology has its roots deep in paedophilia. We have established you are happy that he at least based his theories on terrible experiments carried out by paedophiles that he then protected. Also by his own admission the data collected to ‘prove’ his theories came from inmates who were in prison for sexual offences (mainly paedophiles). This skewed his data significantly beyond what would be considered scientifically acceptable. This is the basis of the study for the man who coined the term gender is a social construct. The fact that he allowed these experiments to continue, knowing that infants were being molested everyday for his research makes him guilty by joint association as far as I’m concerned. Either way, my claim was that gender has its roots deeply in paedophilia and as you agree his data came from paedophiles that he protected it seems we agree. |
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Post by bidefordgas on Apr 5, 2024 6:53:53 GMT
Surely this thread should be moved to general chat mods?
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Post by gasify on Apr 5, 2024 7:02:17 GMT
Yes, you posted a link to the book and the subject of that book absolutely shows that child molestation took place. However, you haven't proved in any way shape or form that Kinsey designed these experiments and was involved in the molestation himself. Which is your claim. If someone is murdered, does that mean the scientist doing the autopsy is a murderer? My claim was actually that gender ideology has its roots deep in paedophilia. We have established you are happy that he at least based his theories on terrible experiments carried out by paedophiles that he then protected. Also by his own admission the data collected to ‘prove’ his theories came from inmates who were in prison for sexual offences (mainly paedophiles). This skewed his data significantly beyond what would be considered scientifically acceptable. This is the basis of the study for the man who coined the term gender is a social construct. The fact that he allowed these experiments to continue, knowing that infants were being molested everyday for his research makes him guilty by joint association as far as I’m concerned. Either way, my claim was that gender has its roots deeply in paedophilia and as you agree his data came from paedophiles that he protected it seems we agree. I'm not Happy about any molestation of children, I'm certainly not. I'm not happy that Bristol has its roots in the Slave trade and that Edward Colston was a disgusting Slave Trader. Your agenda does seem to be Transphobic and this is your way of justifying it to yourself. "Thanks to him, it's now common knowledge that almost all men masturbate, that women peak sexually in their mid-30's and that homosexuality is not some one-in-a-million anomaly." Are you also saying that Homosexuality has its roots deeply in paedophilia? We have gay fans and we have trans fans, let them be. |
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Post by gasbluesman on Apr 5, 2024 8:40:27 GMT
Ticking all the “right opinion” boxes are we? 😂. Judging a man of 17th century standards because he gave his money away rather than the traders who didn’t and are subsequently forgotten. I’m pretty sure the future will look back at gender ideology in the same way we look back at lobotomies and your support of it will be judged equally.
But yes this should probably be moved to general chat as the post has moved away from the topic of match bans.
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Post by gasify on Apr 5, 2024 8:49:36 GMT
Ticking all the “right opinion” boxes are we? 😂. Judging a man of 17th century standards because he gave his money away rather than the traders who didn’t and are subsequently forgotten. I’m pretty sure the future will look back at gender ideology in the same way we look back at lobotomies and your support of it will be judged equally. But yes this should probably be moved to general chat as the post has moved away from the topic of match bans. I am an absolute self condessed lib tard. I don't deny that. I agree that if we are going to continue the Transgender conversation on this thread that it should be moved to General Chat. Probably should have been from the beginning as its not really Rovers related. What I don't understand is some think that Transgender is a new thing. It isn't. It have been happening in other cultures for hundreds of years. Let's bring this back to football: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaiyah_SaeluaHave you seen "Next Goal Wins"? It's on the Disney channel and is a very good football film. |
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Post by gasbluesman on Apr 5, 2024 9:11:42 GMT
I have seen it and the trans player was playing in the men’s team so no issue with it. There’s always been mental illness and dysphoria of all types, men have always had sexual fetishes, people have always expressed themselves how they wish. What is new is that capitalist forces are trying to monetise it. When “your opinion” is being pushed by big business, state media and government institutions you have to ask yourself how “anti establishment” are you really?
But we digress. The point of the article is that the powers used to stop hooliganism are now being used to police fans opinions. I don’t want to see my football club push any political opinions really. I want it to be my escapism from that world. I even posed this question to Tom at the Q&A, in which he gave a stock ‘media trained’ response. I didn’t have the heart to push back on him as sometimes asking the question is enough.
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Post by chewbacca on Apr 5, 2024 9:18:38 GMT
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Post by gasbluesman on Apr 5, 2024 9:21:42 GMT
I did take the risk posting the link 😂 |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Apr 5, 2024 9:59:47 GMT
Getting back to the OP, I don't think the ban is fair. The club could have contacted her and had a discussion, although I'm not sure what base they would be coming from, as the Police had decided that she hadn't broken any law. The OP was about a Wrexham fan being banned. I absolutely think that was the correct thing to do. He did seem to be out for a ruck with his actions of getting his mates and going back for more. This is a football banning order and would mean he has to hand in his passport when there international tournaments. The second situation is a club ban, rather than a banning order. So what is the discussion? Can a club ban someone? or do they have to sell a ticket to anyone? Apologies, I incorrectly referred to the OP, my response above is with regard to the scenario of the Newcastle supporter, in the Spectator article. The Wrexham fan - I think a ban was in order. |
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Post by gasbluesman on Apr 5, 2024 10:34:59 GMT
I think we need to know the context of the Wrexham fan. Shouting it at the terrace is fine IMO, bullying people in person elsewhere is another issue and whether a life ban is proportionate is up for debate. I’m not a huge fan of handing them out willy nilly, it doesn’t offer any perpetrator remorse.
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Post by gasbluesman on Apr 5, 2024 10:49:28 GMT
Just went back to OP and it was a 3 year, not life ban. Seems fair if it was bullying outside of the ground.
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Post by gasify on Apr 5, 2024 11:13:12 GMT
I have seen it and the trans player was playing in the men’s team so no issue with it. There’s always been mental illness and dysphoria of all types, men have always had sexual fetishes, people have always expressed themselves how they wish. What is new is that capitalist forces are trying to monetise it. When “your opinion” is being pushed by big business, state media and government institutions you have to ask yourself how “anti establishment” are you really? But we digress. The point of the article is that the powers used to stop hooliganism are now being used to police fans opinions. I don’t want to see my football club push any political opinions really. I want it to be my escapism from that world. I even posed this question to Tom at the Q&A, in which he gave a stock ‘media trained’ response. I didn’t have the heart to push back on him as sometimes asking the question is enough. Not really sure how realistic that is. We accept remembering the fallen in war, some could say that was quite political. Anyways, back to Newcastle. Can a privately owned football club choose who they can ban or not? Freedom of expression Vs Freedom of expression? That is an interesting debate. This was an interesting case: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444Can someone be made to trade with someone they don't want to trade with? Seems like maybe they can, if that is the outcome then Newcastle are well within their rights? (The irony of Newcastle having some sort of moral high ground is not lost on me BTW) |
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Post by gasbluesman on Apr 5, 2024 11:54:43 GMT
Remembrance is beyond political. There’s no moral quandary or side to pick. Simply remembrance, if you think it’s political I’d say its cultural significance overrides it. Societies need common moral standpoints.
Football clubs though not fan owned are institutions that come under public scrutiny, a small business is allowed to serve who they like. Homophobia isn’t the only reason someone can oppose gay marriage, it certainly contradicts a lot of the family benefits it was created for but let’s not get into the politics of the flaws of marriage in a modern society, it’s quite complicated.
But yeah, Newcastle fans, f**k those horse punching bastards 😂
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Post by tommym9 on Apr 5, 2024 12:08:37 GMT
Remembrance is beyond political. There’s no moral quandary or side to pick. Simply remembrance, if you think it’s political I’d say its cultural significance overrides it. Societies need common moral standpoints. Football clubs though not fan owned are institutions that come under public scrutiny, a small business is allowed to serve who they like. Homophobia isn’t the only reason someone can oppose gay marriage, it certainly contradicts a lot of the family benefits it was created for but let’s not get into the politics of the flaws of marriage in a modern society, it’s quite complicated. But yeah, Newcastle fans, f**k those horse punching bastards 😂 I'd also say theres a lot of 'wheres your poppy' going about nowadays, people getting slaughtered online if they aren't wearing one. Its gone beyond simply remembrance for some people and has become a way to virtue signal. Just chucking that grenade into the conversation! |
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Post by returnofthedust on Apr 5, 2024 12:12:57 GMT
Apparently it’s Roady and I that ruin this forum with irrelevant posts.
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Post by gasify on Apr 5, 2024 12:13:04 GMT
Remembrance is beyond political. There’s no moral quandary or side to pick. Simply remembrance, if you think it’s political I’d say its cultural significance overrides it. Societies need common moral standpoints. Football clubs though not fan owned are institutions that come under public scrutiny, a small business is allowed to serve who they like. Homophobia isn’t the only reason someone can oppose gay marriage, it certainly contradicts a lot of the family benefits it was created for but let’s not get into the politics of the flaws of marriage in a modern society, it’s quite complicated. But yeah, Newcastle fans, f**k those horse punching bastards 😂 I thought we were the horse punchers? |
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Post by gasify on Apr 5, 2024 12:17:24 GMT
Remembrance is beyond political. There’s no moral quandary or side to pick. Simply remembrance, if you think it’s political I’d say its cultural significance overrides it. Societies need common moral standpoints. Football clubs though not fan owned are institutions that come under public scrutiny, a small business is allowed to serve who they like. Homophobia isn’t the only reason someone can oppose gay marriage, it certainly contradicts a lot of the family benefits it was created for but let’s not get into the politics of the flaws of marriage in a modern society, it’s quite complicated. But yeah, Newcastle fans, f**k those horse punching bastards 😂 I'd also say theres a lot of 'wheres your poppy' going about nowadays, people getting slaughtered online if they aren't wearing one. Its gone beyond simply remembrance for some people and has become a way to virtue signal. Just chucking that grenade into the conversation! BOOM! |
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Post by gasbluesman on Apr 5, 2024 12:22:10 GMT
I’m not a fan of forcing poppies on people either but we do need common remembrance. I oppose compelled speech and thought policing wherever it lands on the political spectrum.
As for us punching horses? I only recall the video of the Newcastle fan doing it to a police horse. I guess every club has its horse punching fans, though there are differences from club to club, we’re all gonna have our fair share of nutters.
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