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Post by mftc on May 22, 2024 13:13:04 GMT
It's not just about 'bums on seats' though. We need improved facilities for existing fans, better hospitality to cater for match day and crucially non match day revenue. A stadium cannot be left unused for 13 days out of 14.One of the most frustrating and shambolic things since we bought the ground has been the wasted days of revenue. But they are ok with having the Former Players Association meet ups, Blue Diamonds meals and Corporate Player Awards evenings to be held elsewhere, so losing out on guaranteed bar revenue. This definitely needs looking at. |
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Post by chewbacca on May 22, 2024 13:26:19 GMT
One of the most frustrating and shambolic things since we bought the ground has been the wasted days of revenue. But they are ok with having the Former Players Association meet ups, Blue Diamonds meals and Corporate Player Awards evenings to be held elsewhere, so losing out on guaranteed bar revenue. This definitely needs looking at. The cricket club are perfectly happy to step in where Rovers aren't  |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on May 22, 2024 14:15:40 GMT
But they are ok with having the Former Players Association meet ups, Blue Diamonds meals and Corporate Player Awards evenings to be held elsewhere, so losing out on guaranteed bar revenue. This definitely needs looking at. The cricket club are perfectly happy to step in where Rovers aren't I've never been to the cricket ground, but from looking at their website (very impressive), I am guessing that their main stand was built more recently than facilities at The Mem, so was designed to be able to service modern expectations re. catering, function rooms etc. Looks like they very much have their finger on the pulse with what they offer, pricing etc. |
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Post by chewbacca on May 22, 2024 14:28:05 GMT
The cricket club are perfectly happy to step in where Rovers aren't I've never been to the cricket ground, but from looking at their website (very impressive), I am guessing that their main stand was built more recently than facilities at The Mem, so was designed to be able to service modern expectations re. catering, function rooms etc. Looks like they very much have their finger on the pulse with what they offer, pricing etc. One of the only parts of the club that's turning a profit at the moment sadly. The Pavilion is a great set up, I've had two Christmas Do's there. |
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Post by warehamgas on May 22, 2024 14:56:03 GMT
It’s an interesting thought yatton. I suspect most managers, players and those involved closely with any club might disagree. Istr Eddie Howe at Bournemouth saying years ago his priority would always be a training ground so that he could train the players better and prepare for matches better. And in a sense that’s been repeated with us. Whatever the thoughts, good or bad, about the Quarters it has come first before any ground development. And even down here with the AFCB fans talking about what the legacy from the PL must be, any improvement to Dean Court has been minimal and although there’s talk of a new ground, that’s all it is, talk. Whereas they have a spanking new, state of the art training facility nearing completion. It looks amazing and is seen as more important than the ground. Players see the ground 19, 23 times a season if they don’t train there depending on your league. They see the training ground hundreds of time each year. So I’m not sure ground is more important. The fans may well have a different idea! 😉 UTG! That’s all good and dandy but we’ve been told there’s no point going up unless we’re ready ( I’m guessing stadium here ) . So what’s the point in having an amazing training ground that can attract great players etc …… if you’re not ready to go up ? Seems back to front to me . Bournemouth were bank rolled by a Russian billionaire if I remember rightly? So they could chuck money into the first team and training ground without having to worry too much about the stadium. Well, I’ve never said ‘no point in going up unless we’re ready’. If you have an opportunity to get promoted you take it. Plenty of clubs go up to the Championship with gates around 10,000. Survival will depend on other things not only ‘the ground.’ And yatton I wasn’t having a go at us or what we’ve done because putting the training ground first was just replicating what other clubs do. No difference. AFCB got into the Championship without any Russian money. They had Eddie Mitchell’s money and leadership. Once there they did get the Russian to buy in and take them further. But before then, no. What they did have was a very good manager who used what he had to the best. It’s always been a bit of a lazy argument to say AFCB only did what they did with Russian money. (Not saying that of you btw yatton) There were other factors as well. If it was just about money I doubt many of their league 1 players would have survived in the PL. When in their first two years in the PL they often had 7/8 sometimes even 9 players that had been there in League 1. Anyway apologies for bringing AFCB into it, I was just trying to show that I think for managers, players etc a training ground may well be seen as a larger priority over the ground. UTG! |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on May 22, 2024 15:04:14 GMT
That’s all good and dandy but we’ve been told there’s no point going up unless we’re ready ( I’m guessing stadium here ) . So what’s the point in having an amazing training ground that can attract great players etc …… if you’re not ready to go up ? Seems back to front to me . Bournemouth were bank rolled by a Russian billionaire if I remember rightly? So they could chuck money into the first team and training ground without having to worry too much about the stadium. Well, I’ve never said ‘no point in going up unless we’re ready’. If you have an opportunity to get promoted you take it. Plenty of clubs go up to the Championship with gates around 10,000. Survival will depend on other things not only ‘the ground.’ And yatton I wasn’t having a go at us or what we’ve done because putting the training ground first was just replicating what other clubs do. No difference. AFCB got into the Championship without any Russian money. They had Eddie Mitchell’s money and leadership. Once there they did get the Russian to buy in and take them further. But before then, no. What they did have was a very good manager who used what he had to the best. It’s always been a bit of a lazy argument to say AFCB only did what they did with Russian money. (Not saying that of you btw yatton) There were other factors as well. If it was just about money I doubt many of their league 1 players would have survived in the PL. When in their first two years in the PL they often had 7/8 sometimes even 9 players that had been there in League 1. Anyway apologies for bringing AFCB into it, I was just trying to show that I think for managers, players etc a training ground may well be seen as a larger priority over the ground. UTG! It’s all cool Wareham I didn’t read anything in particular into your post , just giving my thoughts for what they’re worth ( sod all !) Thanks for putting me right on the Rusky his roubles and timelines 😃👍 |
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Post by alanrg on May 22, 2024 15:08:49 GMT
For your information the pavilion at the Gloucester county cricket ground was not recent it was opened in 2013
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 22, 2024 15:28:37 GMT
I must be one of the few people who would question this. We need a ' balance ' between a club competing for top 6 and massive costly stadium plans. And I will tell you why . Last season we sold around 5k STs which are included in attendances. Additionally Cat A teams sold around 1500 tickets. From the new year we barely sold 2k plus gate tickets against ex Premiership teams. Reading 8k Bolton 9k Derby 9k. The south stand charging reasonable prices like £15 v Reading was half empty still didn't attract fans. Next season STs sales will drop. Prices will increase and overall attandances could continue to drop if the team isnt performing. I think 12500 is adequate for a mid division three side . We need investment in the team too. It's not just about 'bums on seats' though. We need improved facilities for existing fans, better hospitality to cater for match day and crucially non match day revenue. A stadium cannot be left unused for 13 days out of 14. I agree about the community aspect of renting / catering more for groups etc . However : I would of thought ' bums on seats' would be central to any future developments. Firstly more attendance generate more income. The fact this season we saw a decrease of nearly 1000 means a loss on gate receipts of around £500k plus. Secondly if attendances are dropping and more spaces are noticeable like this season. Why the justification to build more stands at the expense of an increase spending budget ?. Of course I would like to see major injections put into the club each season on and off the pitch. Everyone would agree with this. But who is paying for it ?. If the choice is between a big budget and a top 6 push or a small budget and continuous ground improvements. I would much prefer a top 6 finish with a view to expanding the ground bit by bit. Otherwise we could end up in a relegation dogfight and have marvellous grounds like MK Bradford Swindon Vale in division 4. |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 22, 2024 15:42:18 GMT
It's not just about 'bums on seats' though. We need improved facilities for existing fans, better hospitality to cater for match day and crucially non match day revenue. A stadium cannot be left unused for 13 days out of 14. I agree about the community aspect of renting / catering more for groups etc . However : I would of thought ' bums on seats' would be central to any future developments. Firstly more attendance generate more income. The fact this season we saw a decrease of nearly 1000 means a loss on gate receipts of around £500k plus. Secondly if attendances are dropping and more spaces are noticeable like this season. Why the justification to build more stands at the expense of an increase spending budget ?. Of course I would like to see major injections put into the club each season on and off the pitch. Everyone would agree with this. But who is paying for it ?. If the choice is between a big budget and a top 6 push or a small budget and continuous ground improvements. I would much prefer a top 6 finish with a view to expanding the ground bit by bit. Otherwise we could end up in a relegation dogfight and have marvellous grounds like MK Bradford Swindon Vale in division 4. What's the point of a top 6 push if we apparently can't survive in the Championship if we ever got there? Developing the East Stand seems the priority to me, once that's developed we should have around a 14K(?) capacity, which perhaps could then support a promotion push. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2024 15:50:25 GMT
It's not just about 'bums on seats' though. We need improved facilities for existing fans, better hospitality to cater for match day and crucially non match day revenue. A stadium cannot be left unused for 13 days out of 14. I agree about the community aspect of renting / catering more for groups etc . However : I would of thought ' bums on seats' would be central to any future developments. Firstly more attendance generate more income. The fact this season we saw a decrease of nearly 1000 means a loss on gate receipts of around £500k plus. Secondly if attendances are dropping and more spaces are noticeable like this season. Why the justification to build more stands at the expense of an increase spending budget ?. Of course I would like to see major injections put into the club each season on and off the pitch. Everyone would agree with this. But who is paying for it ?. If the choice is between a big budget and a top 6 push or a small budget and continuous ground improvements. I would much prefer a top 6 finish with a view to expanding the ground bit by bit. Otherwise we could end up in a relegation dogfight and have marvellous grounds like MK Bradford Swindon Vale in division 4. I understand but disagree. The analogy I'd draw is the playing side is gambling using a credit card while the stadium is more having a mortgage to build an extension. The former just leaves a debt if it doesn't work, the latter at least provides an asset for years to come. |
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 22, 2024 15:56:29 GMT
I agree about the community aspect of renting / catering more for groups etc . However : I would of thought ' bums on seats' would be central to any future developments. Firstly more attendance generate more income. The fact this season we saw a decrease of nearly 1000 means a loss on gate receipts of around £500k plus. Secondly if attendances are dropping and more spaces are noticeable like this season. Why the justification to build more stands at the expense of an increase spending budget ?. Of course I would like to see major injections put into the club each season on and off the pitch. Everyone would agree with this. But who is paying for it ?. If the choice is between a big budget and a top 6 push or a small budget and continuous ground improvements. I would much prefer a top 6 finish with a view to expanding the ground bit by bit. Otherwise we could end up in a relegation dogfight and have marvellous grounds like MK Bradford Swindon Vale in division 4. What's the point of a top 6 push if we apparently can't survive in the Championship if we ever got there? Developing the East Stand seems the priority to me, once that's developed we should have around a 14K(?) capacity, which perhaps could then support a promotion push. Indeed !. You could also ' double up 'the question and ask . What's the use of ground expansion with crowds just over 8000?. It's different for teams like Wrexham Bradford notts County even in division 4 who average 11-16 k. Our average is below mid table and the ground hold 12500. Surely a good team competiting for top 6 is the only way we can gates of 10k in order to justify ground expansions . |
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Post by percy on May 22, 2024 16:04:21 GMT
I agree about the community aspect of renting / catering more for groups etc . However : I would of thought ' bums on seats' would be central to any future developments. Firstly more attendance generate more income. The fact this season we saw a decrease of nearly 1000 means a loss on gate receipts of around £500k plus. Secondly if attendances are dropping and more spaces are noticeable like this season. Why the justification to build more stands at the expense of an increase spending budget ?. Of course I would like to see major injections put into the club each season on and off the pitch. Everyone would agree with this. But who is paying for it ?. If the choice is between a big budget and a top 6 push or a small budget and continuous ground improvements. I would much prefer a top 6 finish with a view to expanding the ground bit by bit. Otherwise we could end up in a relegation dogfight and have marvellous grounds like MK Bradford Swindon Vale in division 4. What's the point of a top 6 push if we apparently can't survive in the Championship if we ever got there? Developing the East Stand seems the priority to me, once that's developed we should have around a 14K(?) capacity, which perhaps could then support a promotion push. I dont understand why people cant see the difference between not providing the playing budget to really challenge to get promoted (when we are not ready to stay up as a club) and saying we wouldnt fight for it as a team. The strategy is to build a sustainable club, if that means mid table for 5 years, so be it. But if we get some exciting seasons fighting at the top and even getting promoted, bringing in more fans and revenue then even better! We just wouldnt throw money around trying to stay up. Stick with the strategy, even if it means coming back down again. Hopefully the extra revenue helping the long term goals happen quicker! |
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 22, 2024 16:16:31 GMT
I agree about the community aspect of renting / catering more for groups etc . However : I would of thought ' bums on seats' would be central to any future developments. Firstly more attendance generate more income. The fact this season we saw a decrease of nearly 1000 means a loss on gate receipts of around £500k plus. Secondly if attendances are dropping and more spaces are noticeable like this season. Why the justification to build more stands at the expense of an increase spending budget ?. Of course I would like to see major injections put into the club each season on and off the pitch. Everyone would agree with this. But who is paying for it ?. If the choice is between a big budget and a top 6 push or a small budget and continuous ground improvements. I would much prefer a top 6 finish with a view to expanding the ground bit by bit. Otherwise we could end up in a relegation dogfight and have marvellous grounds like MK Bradford Swindon Vale in division 4. I understand but disagree. The analogy I'd draw is the playing side is gambling using a credit card while the stadium is more having a mortgage to build an extension. The former just leaves a debt if it doesn't work, the latter at least provides an asset for years to come. It be interesting to see if failed clubs with big stadiums are actually generating income from external use ?. I know a lot of tatsy stadiums which are half empty and you will get more noise on a retreat. www.alamy.com/stock-photo/darlington-football-club-ground-stadium.html?sortBy=relevant |
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on May 22, 2024 16:47:38 GMT
For your information the pavilion at the Gloucester county cricket ground was not recent it was opened in 2013 I would class that as being fairly recent, with regard to being designed to meet present day hospitality requirements. It all looks very impressive on their website. |
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Post by chewbacca on May 22, 2024 16:55:37 GMT
For your information the pavilion at the Gloucester county cricket ground was not recent it was opened in 2013 I would class that as being fairly recent, with regard to being designed to meet present day hospitality requirements. It all looks very impressive on their website. We’re at the point of the summer where we’re arguing about what constitutes as new. |
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 22, 2024 16:59:22 GMT
For your information the pavilion at the Gloucester county cricket ground was not recent it was opened in 2013 I would class that as being fairly recent, with regard to being designed to meet present day hospitality requirements. It all looks very impressive on their website. The club reported a 50% increase in loss from previous season. So hospitality / ground improvements don't necessarily generate income if the playing budget is poor. We can't afford the internationals players like other clubs and Bancroft is hardly a recent international. This is an example of club who spent big on ground revamps but small on the playing staff. This resulted in relegation and poor County championship crowds with excellent facilities. No use having the facilities if the team is underperforming due to limited staff resources. www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/gloucestershire-report-1-19-million-shortfall-in-latest-club-accounts-1429422%3fplatform=amp |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 22, 2024 17:31:08 GMT
What's the point of a top 6 push if we apparently can't survive in the Championship if we ever got there? Developing the East Stand seems the priority to me, once that's developed we should have around a 14K(?) capacity, which perhaps could then support a promotion push. Indeed !. You could also ' double up 'the question and ask . What's the use of ground expansion with crowds just over 8000?. It's different for teams like Wrexham Bradford notts County even in division 4 who average 11-16 k. Our average is below mid table and the ground hold 12500. Surely a good team competiting for top 6 is the only way we can gates of 10k in order to justify ground expansions . If the East Stand is completely out of use for a season (or even two?) then our capacity will be back down to below 10,000? |
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Post by eric on May 22, 2024 17:46:58 GMT
Indeed !. You could also ' double up 'the question and ask . What's the use of ground expansion with crowds just over 8000?. It's different for teams like Wrexham Bradford notts County even in division 4 who average 11-16 k. Our average is below mid table and the ground hold 12500. Surely a good team competiting for top 6 is the only way we can gates of 10k in order to justify ground expansions . If the East Stand is completely out of use for a season (or even two?) then our capacity will be back down to below 10,000? If the dismal level of entertainment provided in the second half of last season continues then that shouldn’t be a problem 🫣 |
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Post by pirate on May 22, 2024 17:55:29 GMT
What's the point of a top 6 push if we apparently can't survive in the Championship if we ever got there? Developing the East Stand seems the priority to me, once that's developed we should have around a 14K(?) capacity, which perhaps could then support a promotion push. Indeed !. You could also ' double up 'the question and ask . What's the use of ground expansion with crowds just over 8000?. It's different for teams like Wrexham Bradford notts County even in division 4 who average 11-16 k. Our average is below mid table and the ground hold 12500. Surely a good team competiting for top 6 is the only way we can gates of 10k in order to justify ground expansions . What was the use of ground expansion at Swansea with crowds just over 8,000 (and lower than that in previous seasons) at the Vetch? What was the use of ground expansion at Hull City with crowds of just over 6,000 at Boothferry Park? |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 22, 2024 18:05:39 GMT
Indeed !. You could also ' double up 'the question and ask . What's the use of ground expansion with crowds just over 8000?. It's different for teams like Wrexham Bradford notts County even in division 4 who average 11-16 k. Our average is below mid table and the ground hold 12500. Surely a good team competiting for top 6 is the only way we can gates of 10k in order to justify ground expansions . What was the use of ground expansion at Swansea with crowds just over 8,000 (and lower than that in previous seasons) at the Vetch? What was the use of ground expansion at Hull City with crowds of just over 6,000 at Boothferry Park? Not sure you can really compare redeveloping the present East Stand to building a completely new stadium, if Rovers had ever gone ahead and built the UWE I'm fairly sure we would have had decent crowds for at least a season or two but I can't imagine just having a redeveloped East Stand will have the same affect? |
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