pirate
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Post by pirate on May 22, 2024 18:07:05 GMT
What was the use of ground expansion at Swansea with crowds just over 8,000 (and lower than that in previous seasons) at the Vetch? What was the use of ground expansion at Hull City with crowds of just over 6,000 at Boothferry Park? Not sure you can really compare redeveloping the present East Stand to building a completely new stadium, if Rovers had ever gone ahead and built the UWE I'm fairly sure we would have had decent crowds for at least a season or two but I can't imagine just having a redeveloped East Stand will have the same affect? Fair point.
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 22, 2024 18:41:14 GMT
Indeed !. You could also ' double up 'the question and ask . What's the use of ground expansion with crowds just over 8000?. It's different for teams like Wrexham Bradford notts County even in division 4 who average 11-16 k. Our average is below mid table and the ground hold 12500. Surely a good team competiting for top 6 is the only way we can gates of 10k in order to justify ground expansions . What was the use of ground expansion at Swansea with crowds just over 8,000 (and lower than that in previous seasons) at the Vetch? What was the use of ground expansion at Hull City with crowds of just over 6,000 at Boothferry Park? Simple answer the council built it nearly 20 years ago for £27 million. Who would turn this offer down ?. My point is were is the money coming from to revamp the Memorial stadium and maintain a top 8 playing budget ?. I would like both but I don't see it. I expect one will take a cut to compensate the other.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on May 22, 2024 19:06:33 GMT
What was the use of ground expansion at Swansea with crowds just over 8,000 (and lower than that in previous seasons) at the Vetch? What was the use of ground expansion at Hull City with crowds of just over 6,000 at Boothferry Park? Simple answer the council built it nearly 20 years ago for £27 million. Who would turn this offer down ?. My point is were is the money coming from to revamp the Memorial stadium and maintain a top 8 playing budget ?. I would like both but I don't see it. I expect one will take a cut to compensate the other. The revamp will be commercial loans and part sell off of The Quarters for housing. The playing budget will be the usual, ticket dales, merchandising, hospitality, etc and owner's support. Paying back the loans and interest will affect future budgets, offset (hopefully) by increased revenue as a result of the improvements. In theory, anyway.
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Post by fatherjackhackett on May 22, 2024 19:25:23 GMT
I can’t believe so many people are either unwilling or unable to understand the simple equation.
Rovers cannot function properly in the mid to long term with the Mem in its current state. Really not rocket science. We need that place to generate income 7 days a week, not 24 or 25 days out of 365. I know Lansdown has thrown money at the ground in BS3, but the non matchday income that place generates is phenomenal compared to the odd party or tribute band we currently get. That’s not counting the rugby, which brings in a lot more beer money than foootball possibly can.
This ‘spend money we haven’t got to push for top 6’ narrative is going to end up one way only - administration. So if you want to spend the 2028/29 season with awaydays to Mangotsfield or Cinderford then crack on. To me it’s just bonkers.
We don’t have the budget or income to match the biggest 7 or 8 clubs in this division. That’s primarily down to the lack of revenue. We don’t have a sugar daddy on any horizon, so personally I’d take the hit of 3 years in the bottom half, maybe even a relegation, if it means the club emerges stronger at the end of it.
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 22, 2024 20:02:50 GMT
I can’t believe so many people are either unwilling or unable to understand the simple equation. Rovers cannot function properly in the mid to long term with the Mem in its current state. Really not rocket science. We need that place to generate income 7 days a week, not 24 or 25 days out of 365. I know Lansdown has thrown money at the ground in BS3, but the non matchday income that place generates is phenomenal compared to the odd party or tribute band we currently get. That’s not counting the rugby, which brings in a lot more beer money than foootball possibly can. This ‘spend money we haven’t got to push for top 6’ narrative is going to end up one way only - administration. So if you want to spend the 2028/29 season with awaydays to Mangotsfield or Cinderford then crack on. To me it’s just bonkers. We don’t have the budget or income to match the biggest 7 or 8 clubs in this division. That’s primarily down to the lack of revenue. We don’t have a sugar daddy on any horizon, so personally I’d take the hit of 3 years in the bottom half, maybe even a relegation, if it means the club emerges stronger at the end of it. That's your view and your entitled to it. However I don't see how spending vast amounts of money revamping the Memorial stadium at the expense of a top 6-8 playing budget is the answer . This season the football have been truly shocking at the Mem and I have been home watching the 5pm results. There is unconfirmed reports the playing budget could take a hit of 25% this season. Are you saying that relegation or a futher decline in footballing success will benefit us as long as the ground gets developed?. Of course I want both. A revamped stadium and a good playing budget. I don't think we will get both. Something will have to be scraficed. Have you seen ST sales for next season on the ground link ?. Also were is the evidence that coperate functions will generate money. Gloucestershire Cricket have got wonderful facilities but just posted a 50% increase in loses. Brilliant facilities but less than a 100 for county championship games. The model ain't worked there!.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 22, 2024 20:13:20 GMT
You've answered your own question, something will clearly have to give and it makes sound business sense to sacrifice match income whilst the owners develop the ground.
What has Wael achieved by doing the opposite, we're still a L1 side, even managing to get relegated, playing at a delapitated Mem, which probably had the worst away end in L1.
Once the UWE bit the dust Wael should have really started redeveloping the Mem not pursue the pipe dream which was the FM.
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Post by fatherjackhackett on May 22, 2024 20:28:50 GMT
I can’t believe so many people are either unwilling or unable to understand the simple equation. Rovers cannot function properly in the mid to long term with the Mem in its current state. Really not rocket science. We need that place to generate income 7 days a week, not 24 or 25 days out of 365. I know Lansdown has thrown money at the ground in BS3, but the non matchday income that place generates is phenomenal compared to the odd party or tribute band we currently get. That’s not counting the rugby, which brings in a lot more beer money than foootball possibly can. This ‘spend money we haven’t got to push for top 6’ narrative is going to end up one way only - administration. So if you want to spend the 2028/29 season with awaydays to Mangotsfield or Cinderford then crack on. To me it’s just bonkers. We don’t have the budget or income to match the biggest 7 or 8 clubs in this division. That’s primarily down to the lack of revenue. We don’t have a sugar daddy on any horizon, so personally I’d take the hit of 3 years in the bottom half, maybe even a relegation, if it means the club emerges stronger at the end of it. That's your view and your entitled to it. However I don't see how spending vast amounts of money revamping the Memorial stadium at the expense of a top 6-8 playing budget is the answer . This season the football have been truly shocking at the Mem and I have been home watching the 5pm results. There is unconfirmed reports the playing budget could take a hit of 25% this season. Are you saying that relegation or a futher decline in footballing success will benefit us as long as the ground gets developed?. Of course I want both. A revamped stadium and a good playing budget. I don't think we will get both. Something will have to be scraficed. Have you seen ST sales for next season on the ground link ?. Also were is the evidence that coperate functions will generate money. Gloucestershire Cricket have got wonderful facilities but just posted a 50% increase in loses. Brilliant facilities but less than a 100 for county championship games. The model ain't worked there!. I have just one question: Where is this good playing budget going to come from?
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Post by aghast on May 22, 2024 21:07:40 GMT
I can’t believe so many people are either unwilling or unable to understand the simple equation. Rovers cannot function properly in the mid to long term with the Mem in its current state. Really not rocket science. We need that place to generate income 7 days a week, not 24 or 25 days out of 365. I know Lansdown has thrown money at the ground in BS3, but the non matchday income that place generates is phenomenal compared to the odd party or tribute band we currently get. That’s not counting the rugby, which brings in a lot more beer money than foootball possibly can. This ‘spend money we haven’t got to push for top 6’ narrative is going to end up one way only - administration. So if you want to spend the 2028/29 season with awaydays to Mangotsfield or Cinderford then crack on. To me it’s just bonkers. We don’t have the budget or income to match the biggest 7 or 8 clubs in this division. That’s primarily down to the lack of revenue. We don’t have a sugar daddy on any horizon, so personally I’d take the hit of 3 years in the bottom half, maybe even a relegation, if it means the club emerges stronger at the end of it. That's your view and your entitled to it. However I don't see how spending vast amounts of money revamping the Memorial stadium at the expense of a top 6-8 playing budget is the answer . This season the football have been truly shocking at the Mem and I have been home watching the 5pm results. There is unconfirmed reports the playing budget could take a hit of 25% this season. Are you saying that relegation or a futher decline in footballing success will benefit us as long as the ground gets developed?. Of course I want both. A revamped stadium and a good playing budget. I don't think we will get both. Something will have to be scraficed. Have you seen ST sales for next season on the ground link ?. Also were is the evidence that coperate functions will generate money. Gloucestershire Cricket have got wonderful facilities but just posted a 50% increase in loses. Brilliant facilities but less than a 100 for county championship games. The model ain't worked there!. You're assuming that the corporate revenue hasn't helped Gloucestershire CCC. I wonder what their losses would have been without the corporate revenue and events? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm guessing it has helped them considerably.
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 22, 2024 21:28:39 GMT
That's your view and your entitled to it. However I don't see how spending vast amounts of money revamping the Memorial stadium at the expense of a top 6-8 playing budget is the answer . This season the football have been truly shocking at the Mem and I have been home watching the 5pm results. There is unconfirmed reports the playing budget could take a hit of 25% this season. Are you saying that relegation or a futher decline in footballing success will benefit us as long as the ground gets developed?. Of course I want both. A revamped stadium and a good playing budget. I don't think we will get both. Something will have to be scraficed. Have you seen ST sales for next season on the ground link ?. Also were is the evidence that coperate functions will generate money. Gloucestershire Cricket have got wonderful facilities but just posted a 50% increase in loses. Brilliant facilities but less than a 100 for county championship games. The model ain't worked there!. You're assuming that the corporate revenue hasn't helped Gloucestershire CCC. I wonder what their losses would have been without the corporate revenue and events? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm guessing it has helped them considerably. I don't know the answer. All I know last season we were relegated and revenue is 50% down on the season before. It's OK having a revamped attractive stadium. However : if the team are poor and crowds are edging down. Then this directly effects revenue . Finally if money is no object . Then of course I would like both. I personally would want to maintain division one football with a push to the play offs in the improved ground we got than pour all the cash we have into a major revamp and end up like Bradford Swindon Vale Mk. And if there's all this money made from 24/7 ground use . Why haven't we done it ? And have it been researched as an economic benefit ?
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Post by timsburygas on May 23, 2024 8:04:37 GMT
Don't think Gloucestershire CCC can be held up as any example of how to run a business. They may have some nice facilities but its cost has been lack of investment in the playing side. The county are in disarray they lost £1.19m last year, CEO is leaving, acting chairman and honorary treasurer are also off at the end of the season and now Arron Banks wants to take it over. He has called a members meeting to overthrow the board. Think he wants to be the Lansdown of cricket.
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Post by chewbacca on May 23, 2024 8:14:39 GMT
Don't think Gloucestershire CCC can be held up as any example of how to run a business. They may have some nice facilities but its cost has been lack of investment in the playing side. The county are in disarray they lost £1.19m last year, CEO is leaving, acting chairman and honorary treasurer are also off at the end of the season and now Arron Banks wants to take it over. He has called a members meeting to overthrow the board. Think he wants to be the Lansdown of cricket. Lansdown uses his own money though. Banks is just spouting spurious noise. Shire shouldn't be held up as the way to run a business at the moment, no. It's been incredibly poor post-covid for many reasons both the fault and not the fault of the club. That said it would be a lot worse without the pavilion and the funds it's raised. We can look at that element of the cricket club when it comes to non-match day revenue. The Mem like has been said isn't used for 13 out of 14 days and that's a total waste.
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Post by supergas on May 23, 2024 8:18:32 GMT
Don't think Gloucestershire CCC can be held up as any example of how to run a business. They may have some nice facilities but its cost has been lack of investment in the playing side. The county are in disarray they lost £1.19m last year, CEO is leaving, acting chairman and honorary treasurer are also off at the end of the season and now Arron Banks wants to take it over. He has called a members meeting to overthrow the board. Think he wants to be the Lansdown of cricket. I'm not 100% sure - weather is a huge factor in cricket and the one international 50-over match they lost due to weather might well make up a huge chunk of that loss. The outgoing CE oversaw success on the field as well as stadium upgrades allowing them to host international games. Did they over-reach? Perhaps, they have always been in the second tier of cricket stadia and were never likely to break into the top-tier. But none of the investments or upgrades they made in the last decade were stupid, if they had got a Hundred franchise they would probably be running at a profit...
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Post by warehamgas on May 23, 2024 8:59:39 GMT
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 23, 2024 9:57:17 GMT
A bit of context to these attendances. Firstly I work it out Gloucestershire came 10th out of 18th. Secondly we play usually 8 days at Cheltenham in county championship drawing about 2-3k per game. If you deduct say 10k from 20k over a season for the two games at Cheltenhan. The 5 other games in Bristol ( potentially) 20 days cricket draw another 10k . That works out less than 500 per game. So the model that a modernised upgraded facility attracts greater crowds isn't true. Cheltenham on the other hand attracts much grater numbers in a ground with one listed small stand . The fact is fans will not pay £20-35 if the entertainment is poor. You can have one of the best facilities in the country but if the football standards are poor it is fruitless. We all have different options on this forum and that's good. But for me if it means ground improvements is for the detriment of the playing budget and possible relegation then I'm out.
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Post by warehamgas on May 23, 2024 10:03:37 GMT
A bit of context to these attendances. Firstly I work it out Gloucestershire came 10th out of 18th. Secondly we play usually 8 days at Cheltenham in county championship drawing about 2-3k per game. If you deduct say 10k from 20k over a season for the two games at Cheltenhan. The 5 other games in Bristol ( potentially) 20 days cricket draw another 10k . That works out less than 500 per game. So the model that a modernised upgraded facility attracts greater crowds isn't true. Cheltenham on the other hand attracts much grater numbers in a ground with one listed small stand . The fact is fans will not pay £20-35 if the entertainment is poor. You can have one of the best facilities in the country but if the football standards are poor it is fruitless. We all have different options on this forum and that's good. But for me if it means ground improvements is for the detriment of the playing budget and possible relegation then I'm out. No problem oldmarket. As I read the thread I just thought information about Gloucestershire attendances would help in the discussion. 👍 UTG!
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Post by curlywurly on May 23, 2024 10:06:39 GMT
A bit of context to these attendances. Firstly I work it out Gloucestershire came 10th out of 18th. Secondly we play usually 8 days at Cheltenham in county championship drawing about 2-3k per game. If you deduct say 10k from 20k over a season for the two games at Cheltenhan. The 5 other games in Bristol ( potentially) 20 days cricket draw another 10k . That works out less than 500 per game. So the model that a modernised upgraded facility attracts greater crowds isn't true. Cheltenham on the other hand attracts much grater numbers in a ground with one listed small stand . The fact is fans will not pay £20-35 if the entertainment is poor. You can have one of the best facilities in the country but if the football standards are poor it is fruitless. We all have different options on this forum and that's good. But for me if it means ground improvements is for the detriment of the playing budget and possible relegation then I'm out. I'm with you mate. If we struggle on the field, it doesn't matter how many stand seats we have, they will not be filled. History suggests it is worse than that because we need to play both winning AND entertaining football for crowds to watch Rovers - evidence reduced attendance under Graham Coughlan's winning side.
I'm hopeful but I fear that Matt Taylor will struggle to provide one let alone both of these.
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 23, 2024 10:14:44 GMT
You've answered your own question, something will clearly have to give and it makes sound business sense to sacrifice match income whilst the owners develop the ground. What has Wael achieved by doing the opposite, we're still a L1 side, even managing to get relegated, playing at a delapitated Mem, which probably had the worst away end in L1. Once the UWE bit the dust Wael should have really started redeveloping the Mem not pursue the pipe dream which was the FM. But is it sound business Topper if the focus is on the corporate at the expense of the playing budget ?. What I witnessed in 2024 at the Memorial stadium was one of the worst performances I ever seen in 40 odd years. A record of something like W 2 D1 L9 . And I don't buy this cut backs or rationalisation will improve outcomes. If you got 10 bricklayers and 10 labourers on a building site and you cut it to 5 / 5 . How will that improve performance outcomes ?.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 23, 2024 10:20:21 GMT
You've answered your own question, something will clearly have to give and it makes sound business sense to sacrifice match income whilst the owners develop the ground. What has Wael achieved by doing the opposite, we're still a L1 side, even managing to get relegated, playing at a delapitated Mem, which probably had the worst away end in L1. Once the UWE bit the dust Wael should have really started redeveloping the Mem not pursue the pipe dream which was the FM. But is it sound business Topper if the focus is on the corporate at the expense of the playing budget ?. What I witnessed in 2024 at the Memorial stadium was one of the worst performances I ever seen in 40 odd years. A record of something like W 2 D1 L9 . And I don't buy this cut backs or rationalisation will improve outcomes. If you got 10 bricklayers and 10 labourers on a building site and you cut it to 5 / 5 . How will that improve performance outcomes ?. Perhaps the 5 will actually turn up for work and put some effort in when they are there? If Exeter can do it on a smaller wage budget why can't we?
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Post by warehamgas on May 23, 2024 10:31:26 GMT
Whenever this time of year comes around and the accounts are published it throws up similar discussions each year. BRFC has had a variety of owners in my time. The boards in the 60s and early 70s kept things ticking along but never invested much money in anything. They probably didn’t have it to spend. No good spending it on the stadium because Eastville wasn’t theirs but they didn’t invest it in the team either with only few significant forays into the transfer market. But well done to them they had us in the Championship for some years. But as Eastville deteriorated the inevitable happened and we had to leave. The Dunford were very good ‘problem solvers’ and had us getting value for money and saved the club in many ways. But they had no large amounts of money to compete in what was beginning to happen. Since then Higgs did his best but no great amount of money to make a real difference before he sold us to the AQs. Rich but not going to spend too much over what they did. Now the ASs ( in combo with WAQ?). Rich, but not that rich it seems. What they have all tried to do is do both the ground infrastructure stuff and improve the team. But they have lacked the money to do both so we’ve moved from season to season, from good to better back to worse. So we keep ticking over, from one season to the next. Tbf to the owners they’ve all had plans but have lacked the money to see them through. I don’t think they had any vision for what we could be. Plans but no vision. The foreign owners we’ve had were never going to have the vision to invest in the long term for BRFC. Not in the way Tony Bloom at Brighton, Gary Sweet at Luton or Matthew Benham at Brentford have done. And I’ve used these clubs because they were our traditional rivals as I grew up.
I’m very grateful for all that the owners have done for us over the years but until we have someone who comes with a long term vision, the money to implement it and the commitment to doing it we’ll likely be having similar discussions for years. And all we can do is enjoy the ride! Enjoy the Wembley trip in 2015, enjoy the D/R match in 2016 and the Scunthorpe match in 2022 and even the Pompey match last Christmas. Compared to some we’ve been very lucky to have had all those days in the last 10 years.
As always, UTG!
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 23, 2024 10:35:20 GMT
But is it sound business Topper if the focus is on the corporate at the expense of the playing budget ?. What I witnessed in 2024 at the Memorial stadium was one of the worst performances I ever seen in 40 odd years. A record of something like W 2 D1 L9 . And I don't buy this cut backs or rationalisation will improve outcomes. If you got 10 bricklayers and 10 labourers on a building site and you cut it to 5 / 5 . How will that improve performance outcomes ?. Perhaps the 5 will actually turn up for work and put some effort in when they are there? If Exeter can do it on a smaller wage budget why can't we? It's a myth if you cut a budget it will improve things. It happens in about 10% of cases. If you take corporate / health you have to wait 1 hour before anyone answers .
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