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Post by madridgas on May 23, 2024 11:25:30 GMT
Whenever this time of year comes around and the accounts are published it throws up similar discussions each year. BRFC has had a variety of owners in my time. The boards in the 60s and early 70s kept things ticking along but never invested much money in anything. They probably didn’t have it to spend. No good spending it on the stadium because Eastville wasn’t theirs but they didn’t invest it in the team either with only few significant forays into the transfer market. But well done to them they had us in the Championship for some years. But as Eastville deteriorated the inevitable happened and we had to leave. The Dunford were very good ‘problem solvers’ and had us getting value for money and saved the club in many ways. But they had no large amounts of money to compete in what was beginning to happen. Since then Higgs did his best but no great amount of money to make a real difference before he sold us to the AQs. Rich but not going to spend too much over what they did. Now the ASs ( in combo with WAQ?). Rich, but not that rich it seems. What they have all tried to do is do both the ground infrastructure stuff and improve the team. But they have lacked the money to do both so we’ve moved from season to season, from good to better back to worse. So we keep ticking over, from one season to the next. Tbf to the owners they’ve all had plans but have lacked the money to see them through. I don’t think they had any vision for what we could be. Plans but no vision. The foreign owners we’ve had were never going to have the vision to invest in the long term for BRFC. Not in the way Tony Bloom at Brighton, Gary Sweet at Luton or Matthew Benham at Brentford have done. And I’ve used these clubs because they were our traditional rivals as I grew up. I’m very grateful for all that the owners have done for us over the years but until we have someone who comes with a long term vision, the money to implement it and the commitment to doing it we’ll likely be having similar discussions for years. And all we can do is enjoy the ride! Enjoy the Wembley trip in 2015, enjoy the D/R match in 2016 and the Scunthorpe match in 2022 and even the Pompey match last Christmas. Compared to some we’ve been very lucky to have had all those days in the last 10 years. As always, UTG! Thanks for this Wareham. Whilst I strongly agree with most of this, unlike the rich supporter backers of Brighton and Brentford, I hadn't heard of Gary Sweet and so have just undertaken a little analysis. Based on his LinkedIn profile whilst Gary seems to have been a very good professional career, i wouldn't think it would have generated the wealth of Bloom or Benham, BUT it does seem that he and the Luton Town Supporters Trust have managed to harness the supporters, some of which are US based and have invested sufficiently that together with good profits on player sales (albeit a few years ago) the club was sustainable in the Championship. In the season before last, when they got promoted their wage bills sky rocketed, but not their (immediate) income, perhaps largely because of promotion bonuses. They now of course will benefit from parachute payments. So, undoubtedly similarities to Exeter, albeit at a higher level. Interestingly in 2022/3 whilst as a Championship club, their cheapest seated ST was (i think) less than ours and at 12k not a significantly larger ground, but as all seated, there were no cheaper standing options. Plus you could hardly call Kenilworth Road a modern stadium before the improvements undertaken when they reached the Prem. All we need is a driven individual that unites the supporters, gets some reasonable investment in, ability to make money on player sales and play attractive, winning football .... |
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Post by warehamgas on May 23, 2024 11:36:05 GMT
Whenever this time of year comes around and the accounts are published it throws up similar discussions each year. BRFC has had a variety of owners in my time. The boards in the 60s and early 70s kept things ticking along but never invested much money in anything. They probably didn’t have it to spend. No good spending it on the stadium because Eastville wasn’t theirs but they didn’t invest it in the team either with only few significant forays into the transfer market. But well done to them they had us in the Championship for some years. But as Eastville deteriorated the inevitable happened and we had to leave. The Dunford were very good ‘problem solvers’ and had us getting value for money and saved the club in many ways. But they had no large amounts of money to compete in what was beginning to happen. Since then Higgs did his best but no great amount of money to make a real difference before he sold us to the AQs. Rich but not going to spend too much over what they did. Now the ASs ( in combo with WAQ?). Rich, but not that rich it seems. What they have all tried to do is do both the ground infrastructure stuff and improve the team. But they have lacked the money to do both so we’ve moved from season to season, from good to better back to worse. So we keep ticking over, from one season to the next. Tbf to the owners they’ve all had plans but have lacked the money to see them through. I don’t think they had any vision for what we could be. Plans but no vision. The foreign owners we’ve had were never going to have the vision to invest in the long term for BRFC. Not in the way Tony Bloom at Brighton, Gary Sweet at Luton or Matthew Benham at Brentford have done. And I’ve used these clubs because they were our traditional rivals as I grew up. I’m very grateful for all that the owners have done for us over the years but until we have someone who comes with a long term vision, the money to implement it and the commitment to doing it we’ll likely be having similar discussions for years. And all we can do is enjoy the ride! Enjoy the Wembley trip in 2015, enjoy the D/R match in 2016 and the Scunthorpe match in 2022 and even the Pompey match last Christmas. Compared to some we’ve been very lucky to have had all those days in the last 10 years. As always, UTG! Thanks for this Wareham. Whilst I strongly agree with most of this, unlike the rich supporter backers of Brighton and Brentford, I hadn't heard of Gary Sweet and so have just undertaken a little analysis. Based on his LinkedIn profile whilst Gary seems to have been a very good professional career, i wouldn't think it would have generated the wealth of Bloom or Benham, BUT it does seem that he and the Luton Town Supporters Trust have managed to harness the supporters, some of which are US based and have invested sufficiently that together with good profits on player sales (albeit a few years ago) the club was sustainable in the Championship. In the season before last, when they got promoted their wage bills sky rocketed, but not their (immediate) income, perhaps largely because of promotion bonuses. They now of course will benefit from parachute payments. So, undoubtedly similarities to Exeter, albeit at a higher level. Interestingly in 2022/3 whilst as a Championship club, their cheapest seated ST was (i think) less than ours and at 12k not a significantly larger ground, but as all seated, there were no cheaper standing options. Plus you could hardly call Kenilworth Road a modern stadium before the improvements undertaken when they reached the Prem. All we need is a driven individual that unites the supporters, gets some reasonable investment in, ability to make money on player sales and play attractive, winning football .... Part of why I choose those 3 examples are that they’ve moved well ahead of us from being comparable to us 15/20 years ago (and in Luton’s case 5 years ago). Sweet at Luton, as you say, has been able to generate investment. You're correct that is what we need! And until we do….. Just enjoy the ride!! 😉 UTG! |
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 23, 2024 11:37:44 GMT
Whenever this time of year comes around and the accounts are published it throws up similar discussions each year. BRFC has had a variety of owners in my time. The boards in the 60s and early 70s kept things ticking along but never invested much money in anything. They probably didn’t have it to spend. No good spending it on the stadium because Eastville wasn’t theirs but they didn’t invest it in the team either with only few significant forays into the transfer market. But well done to them they had us in the Championship for some years. But as Eastville deteriorated the inevitable happened and we had to leave. The Dunford were very good ‘problem solvers’ and had us getting value for money and saved the club in many ways. But they had no large amounts of money to compete in what was beginning to happen. Since then Higgs did his best but no great amount of money to make a real difference before he sold us to the AQs. Rich but not going to spend too much over what they did. Now the ASs ( in combo with WAQ?). Rich, but not that rich it seems. What they have all tried to do is do both the ground infrastructure stuff and improve the team. But they have lacked the money to do both so we’ve moved from season to season, from good to better back to worse. So we keep ticking over, from one season to the next. Tbf to the owners they’ve all had plans but have lacked the money to see them through. I don’t think they had any vision for what we could be. Plans but no vision. The foreign owners we’ve had were never going to have the vision to invest in the long term for BRFC. Not in the way Tony Bloom at Brighton, Gary Sweet at Luton or Matthew Benham at Brentford have done. And I’ve used these clubs because they were our traditional rivals as I grew up. I’m very grateful for all that the owners have done for us over the years but until we have someone who comes with a long term vision, the money to implement it and the commitment to doing it we’ll likely be having similar discussions for years. And all we can do is enjoy the ride! Enjoy the Wembley trip in 2015, enjoy the D/R match in 2016 and the Scunthorpe match in 2022 and even the Pompey match last Christmas. Compared to some we’ve been very lucky to have had all those days in the last 10 years. As always, UTG! Excellent summary and well written . Your last paragraph sums our challenges up. We need a bit of honesty and communication. For example : Do we spend the cash on a stadium revamp or playing budget ?. What are the priorities ? What are the risks in both models ?. As you suggest we can't have both !. |
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Post by warehamgas on May 23, 2024 11:47:37 GMT
Whenever this time of year comes around and the accounts are published it throws up similar discussions each year. BRFC has had a variety of owners in my time. The boards in the 60s and early 70s kept things ticking along but never invested much money in anything. They probably didn’t have it to spend. No good spending it on the stadium because Eastville wasn’t theirs but they didn’t invest it in the team either with only few significant forays into the transfer market. But well done to them they had us in the Championship for some years. But as Eastville deteriorated the inevitable happened and we had to leave. The Dunford were very good ‘problem solvers’ and had us getting value for money and saved the club in many ways. But they had no large amounts of money to compete in what was beginning to happen. Since then Higgs did his best but no great amount of money to make a real difference before he sold us to the AQs. Rich but not going to spend too much over what they did. Now the ASs ( in combo with WAQ?). Rich, but not that rich it seems. What they have all tried to do is do both the ground infrastructure stuff and improve the team. But they have lacked the money to do both so we’ve moved from season to season, from good to better back to worse. So we keep ticking over, from one season to the next. Tbf to the owners they’ve all had plans but have lacked the money to see them through. I don’t think they had any vision for what we could be. Plans but no vision. The foreign owners we’ve had were never going to have the vision to invest in the long term for BRFC. Not in the way Tony Bloom at Brighton, Gary Sweet at Luton or Matthew Benham at Brentford have done. And I’ve used these clubs because they were our traditional rivals as I grew up. I’m very grateful for all that the owners have done for us over the years but until we have someone who comes with a long term vision, the money to implement it and the commitment to doing it we’ll likely be having similar discussions for years. And all we can do is enjoy the ride! Enjoy the Wembley trip in 2015, enjoy the D/R match in 2016 and the Scunthorpe match in 2022 and even the Pompey match last Christmas. Compared to some we’ve been very lucky to have had all those days in the last 10 years. As always, UTG! Excellent summary and well written . Your last paragraph sums our challenges up. We need a bit of honesty and communication. For example : Do we spend the cash on a stadium revamp or playing budget ?. What are the priorities ? What are the risks in both models ?. As you suggest we can't have both !. Oldmarket, thanks for the reply. Yes, I think you’ve summed it up better . We can’t have both but owners have tried to and have done neither. And until we get someone who can… As ever fingers crossed. 🤞🏽 UTG! |
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Post by lastminutewinner on May 23, 2024 13:42:02 GMT
It's important we get recruitment right, so a lot will fall on George Friend's shoulders.
Rather than pay big money for players we need to be spotting them early for lower fees and developing them to sell on for big fees. Easier said than done though but what other choice do we have?
Peterborough paid for a lot of their ground improvements through player sales so it shows one can also impact the other.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on May 23, 2024 14:27:09 GMT
It's important we get recruitment right, so a lot will fall on George Friend's shoulders. Rather than pay big money for players we need to be spotting them early for lower fees and developing them to sell on for big fees. Easier said than done though but what other choice do we have? Peterborough paid for a lot of their ground improvements through player sales so it shows one can also impact the other. I know I have banged this drum for a while, but a lot can be learnt from Brentford.
As I mentioned previously, Brentford spent 7 seasons in the Championship at Griffin Park on crowds averaging about 10,300 and then won promotion to the Premier League despite having the fourth-lowest playing budget in the Championship, above only Preston, Rotherham and Burton. They punched above their weight mostly with a combination of smart recruitment and innovative thinking.
The new stadium cost just over £70m and over the previous five years to the stadium being built the club had sold players for a combined value of £150m, and up to 2021 the average age at which players were signed at Brentford in total since the 14/15 season was on average lower than 23-years-old.
Lee Dykes, the club’s current Technical Director, who has been there since 2019 after joining from Bury, said: “Matthew [Benham, owner] will tell you himself that we never want to be in a position where we have to outspend our competitors – we out think them. That’s why it’s such an innovative club and everything recruitment wise is geared towards that philosophy.”
Former Director of Football Rasmus Ankersen said during his time at the club: “Recruitment is the bread and butter of Brentford because we have one of the lowest revenues in the league. We need to make the business sustainable by buying cheap and selling expensive, which is what we’ve done over the last few years.
“It comes down to not only being able to identify undervalued talent in the market but also we invest a lot in the development of players. We invest in different types of specialists, whether it be sleep coaches, kicking coaches, to try and raise the level of the players who come in."
“The key is being able to identify undervalued talent in the market, develop them, and then sell them on for profit, gradually building more value into the squad and gradually increasing the level of the squad” said Ankersen.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 23, 2024 17:06:54 GMT
Whenever this time of year comes around and the accounts are published it throws up similar discussions each year. BRFC has had a variety of owners in my time. The boards in the 60s and early 70s kept things ticking along but never invested much money in anything. They probably didn’t have it to spend. No good spending it on the stadium because Eastville wasn’t theirs but they didn’t invest it in the team either with only few significant forays into the transfer market. But well done to them they had us in the Championship for some years. But as Eastville deteriorated the inevitable happened and we had to leave. The Dunford were very good ‘problem solvers’ and had us getting value for money and saved the club in many ways. But they had no large amounts of money to compete in what was beginning to happen. Since then Higgs did his best but no great amount of money to make a real difference before he sold us to the AQs. Rich but not going to spend too much over what they did. Now the ASs ( in combo with WAQ?). Rich, but not that rich it seems. What they have all tried to do is do both the ground infrastructure stuff and improve the team. But they have lacked the money to do both so we’ve moved from season to season, from good to better back to worse. So we keep ticking over, from one season to the next. Tbf to the owners they’ve all had plans but have lacked the money to see them through. I don’t think they had any vision for what we could be. Plans but no vision. The foreign owners we’ve had were never going to have the vision to invest in the long term for BRFC. Not in the way Tony Bloom at Brighton, Gary Sweet at Luton or Matthew Benham at Brentford have done. And I’ve used these clubs because they were our traditional rivals as I grew up. I’m very grateful for all that the owners have done for us over the years but until we have someone who comes with a long term vision, the money to implement it and the commitment to doing it we’ll likely be having similar discussions for years. And all we can do is enjoy the ride! Enjoy the Wembley trip in 2015, enjoy the D/R match in 2016 and the Scunthorpe match in 2022 and even the Pompey match last Christmas. Compared to some we’ve been very lucky to have had all those days in the last 10 years. As always, UTG! Excellent summary and well written . Your last paragraph sums our challenges up. We need a bit of honesty and communication. For example : Do we spend the cash on a stadium revamp or playing budget ?. What are the priorities ? What are the risks in both models ?. As you suggest we can't have both !. Abdullatif confirmed their priorities at the Q&A they intend redeveloping the Mem (the East & North Stands) and improving The Quarters in order that the Academy obtains level 2 status, he even gave a rough idea of the total costs which was £35m, with I recall a third of that coming from selling the land for development at Almondsbury. Once those developments take place they'll look to push on with a promotion push. They clearly have a plan and also appear to know how to finance it. The fact they are talking about submitting the East Stand plans to BCC suggests they do intend proceeding with their plans for the club. |
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Post by The Equaliser on May 23, 2024 17:11:01 GMT
Excellent summary and well written . Your last paragraph sums our challenges up. We need a bit of honesty and communication. For example : Do we spend the cash on a stadium revamp or playing budget ?. What are the priorities ? What are the risks in both models ?. As you suggest we can't have both !. Abdullatif confirmed their priorities at the Q&A they intend redeveloping the Mem (the East & North Stands) and improving The Quarters in order that the Academy obtains level 2 status, he even gave a rough idea of the total costs which was £35m, with I recall a third of that coming from selling the land for development at Almondsbury. Once those developments take place they'll look to push on with a promotion push.
They clearly have a plan and also appear to know how to finance it. The fact they are talking about submitting the East Stand plans to BCC suggests they do intend proceeding with their plans for the club. That sounds like they are saying we’re only going for promotion after the developments! Can’t be true, I think you’ve misheard that 👍🏾 |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 23, 2024 17:31:11 GMT
Abdullatif confirmed their priorities at the Q&A they intend redeveloping the Mem (the East & North Stands) and improving The Quarters in order that the Academy obtains level 2 status, he even gave a rough idea of the total costs which was £35m, with I recall a third of that coming from selling the land for development at Almondsbury. Once those developments take place they'll look to push on with a promotion push.
They clearly have a plan and also appear to know how to finance it. The fact they are talking about submitting the East Stand plans to BCC suggests they do intend proceeding with their plans for the club. That sounds like they are saying we’re only going for promotion after the developments! Can’t be true, I think you’ve misheard that 👍🏾 The indications were that they wouldn't go for promotion until the infrastructure was there to support it, I assume as a minimum that's the East Stand redeveloped and also the work done at The Quarters. Although not sure we could survive in the Championship with the North Stand out of use for a couple of seasons, as that's 4,000 less fans each home game. |
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Post by oldmarket65 on May 23, 2024 17:39:39 GMT
That sounds like they are saying we’re only going for promotion after the developments! Can’t be true, I think you’ve misheard that 👍🏾 The indications were that they wouldn't go for promotion until the infrastructure was there to support it, I assume as a minimum that's the East Stand redeveloped and also the work done at The Quarters. Although not sure we could survive in the Championship with the North Stand out of use for a couple of seasons, as that's 4,000 less fans each home game. Have you got a link Topper ?. If true it might explain poor ST sales. |
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Post by Gasshole on May 23, 2024 18:35:58 GMT
That sounds like they are saying we’re only going for promotion after the developments! Can’t be true, I think you’ve misheard that 👍🏾 The indications were that they wouldn't go for promotion until the infrastructure was there to support it, I assume as a minimum that's the East Stand redeveloped and also the work done at The Quarters. Although not sure we could survive in the Championship with the North Stand out of use for a couple of seasons, as that's 4,000 less fans each home game. I ❤️ Div 1. We are higher than 87% of the football pyramid. Happy days. |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 23, 2024 19:29:42 GMT
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Post by bridgygas on May 23, 2024 19:54:36 GMT
Thanks for this Wareham. Whilst I strongly agree with most of this, unlike the rich supporter backers of Brighton and Brentford, I hadn't heard of Gary Sweet and so have just undertaken a little analysis. Based on his LinkedIn profile whilst Gary seems to have been a very good professional career, i wouldn't think it would have generated the wealth of Bloom or Benham, BUT it does seem that he and the Luton Town Supporters Trust have managed to harness the supporters, some of which are US based and have invested sufficiently that together with good profits on player sales (albeit a few years ago) the club was sustainable in the Championship. In the season before last, when they got promoted their wage bills sky rocketed, but not their (immediate) income, perhaps largely because of promotion bonuses. They now of course will benefit from parachute payments. So, undoubtedly similarities to Exeter, albeit at a higher level. Interestingly in 2022/3 whilst as a Championship club, their cheapest seated ST was (i think) less than ours and at 12k not a significantly larger ground, but as all seated, there were no cheaper standing options. Plus you could hardly call Kenilworth Road a modern stadium before the improvements undertaken when they reached the Prem. All we need is a driven individual that unites the supporters, gets some reasonable investment in, ability to make money on player sales and play attractive, winning football .... Part of why I choose those 3 examples are that they’ve moved well ahead of us from being comparable to us 15/20 years ago (and in Luton’s case 5 years ago). Sweet at Luton, as you say, has been able to generate investment. You're correct that is what we need! And until we do….. Just enjoy the ride!! 😉 UTG! |
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Post by bridgygas on May 23, 2024 20:00:10 GMT
Regarding spending money on team or infrastructure. The first game of last season away to Portsmouth and was chatting to some home fans they said that there new Disney owners had three stages of investment
1 training ground upgrade
2 stadium upgrade
3 investment in playing squad
If we can follow that trend then look where they are now.
UTG
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Post by gaelgas on May 23, 2024 20:11:08 GMT
Haven’t got a water pot in ? 🤔 Close. The missing "to" may have thrown you a bit. It's an interesting paradox, we are reliant on the custodians to fund our expectations and to do so responsibly, yet complain when that funding doesn't meet our expectations. 'Haven't got a pot in which to water' I think you mean. |
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Post by warehamgas on May 23, 2024 20:19:47 GMT
Regarding spending money on team or infrastructure. The first game of last season away to Portsmouth and was chatting to some home fans they said that there new Disney owners had three stages of investment 1 training ground upgrade 2 stadium upgrade 3 investment in playing squad If we can follow that trend then look where they are now. UTG …..which then leaves the question do the ASs have the same financial power as Eisner at Pompey. And if they have do they have the commitment to do so. Ive no idea. UTG! |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 23, 2024 20:31:27 GMT
Regarding spending money on team or infrastructure. The first game of last season away to Portsmouth and was chatting to some home fans they said that there new Disney owners had three stages of investment 1 training ground upgrade 2 stadium upgrade 3 investment in playing squad If we can follow that trend then look where they are now. UTG …..which then leaves the question do the ASs have the same financial power as Eisner at Pompey. And if they have do they have the commitment to do so. Ive no idea. UTG! The links I posted above show the AL-S have committed to spending £35m in total and claim they can finance it, although I've no idea what similar projects they claim to have financed previously as there's nothing showing on Google, they don't really need Elsner's financial power as we're two different clubs they just need to find the £35m!! Hopefully it's not all going to be borrowed against the Mem etc given that they've just had it revalued and suggest it will increase in value again once the South Stand is finished. |
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,461
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Post by pirate on May 23, 2024 21:18:54 GMT
…..which then leaves the question do the ASs have the same financial power as Eisner at Pompey. And if they have do they have the commitment to do so. Ive no idea. UTG! The links I posted above show the AL-S have committed to spending £35m in total and claim they can finance it, although I've no idea what similar projects they claim to have financed previously as there's nothing showing on Google, they don't really need Elsner's financial power as we're two different clubs they just need to find the £35m!! Hopefully it's not all going to be borrowed against the Mem etc given that they've just had it revalued and suggest it will increase in value again once the South Stand is finished. Maybe Abdullatif plans to sell a few of those restaurants to put towards the £35,000,000? (Stop laughing at the back!) |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on May 23, 2024 21:30:04 GMT
Regarding spending money on team or infrastructure. The first game of last season away to Portsmouth and was chatting to some home fans they said that there new Disney owners had three stages of investment 1 training ground upgrade 2 stadium upgrade 3 investment in playing squad If we can follow that trend then look where they are now. UTG …..which then leaves the question do the ASs have the same financial power as Eisner at Pompey. And if they have do they have the commitment to do so. Ive no idea. UTG! You do have some idea Wareham, don't be silly. 😉😆 Eisner estimate net worth $1.1billion footballleagueworld.co.uk/what-is-the-estimated-net-worth-of-portsmouth-fc-owner-michael-eisner/ Abdullatif: www.foodco-kw.com/ |
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Post by Topper Gas on May 23, 2024 21:57:38 GMT
The links I posted above show the AL-S have committed to spending £35m in total and claim they can finance it, although I've no idea what similar projects they claim to have financed previously as there's nothing showing on Google, they don't really need Elsner's financial power as we're two different clubs they just need to find the £35m!! Hopefully it's not all going to be borrowed against the Mem etc given that they've just had it revalued and suggest it will increase in value again once the South Stand is finished. Maybe Abdullatif plans to sell a few of those restaurants to put towards the £35,000,000? (Stop laughing at the back!) They are going to look pretty foolish if they release plans for the East Stand then can't finance it, assuming that they do get as far as releasing the plans. |
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