|
|
Post by eric on Jul 15, 2024 14:00:01 GMT
Quite right that we all have an opinion. Just saying that how can France, Italy, Spain, Germany win not just one, but multiple silverware in the last 60 years and we can’t win one in the same time. All those teams have had their issues and coming and going of great players in that period and still won. Again not once but multiple times. Those players mentioned have done well for their clubs. In an England shirt different story. Im pretty sure it’s a few years ago that we had an English BLD winner. Just guess settling for the ordinary is acceptable. I’m sorry we just don’t produce team players, just individuals. It’s the managers responsibility to select the right players and get them into a style of play and with tactics that make the team successful. Southgate hasn’t done that. Our academy system wasn’t built overnight but we’re now getting the products of the new academies coming through in high numbers. We’ve got more technically gifted players than ever before (maybe not so many in the centre back positions maybe?). A top manager would get far more out of these players. Southgate has done a great job in terms of team building, attitude, feel good factor etc but he’s way short in terms of tactics, strategy and in game management. I’ve no idea why the FA ever thought someone who failed in his only management role working with a senior team would work in the job of national team manager. On paper it may look like he’s done a good job when compared to previous England Managers but in the current era it’s easier than ever to qualify for major tournaments (even Scotland and Wales sometimes qualify these days), the tournaments are so big that it’s hard not to qualify from the group stages and it can’t be denied that under GS the draw has worked very fortunately in our favour. He’s also had very good players to choose from - would Southgate do better than Graham Taylor with players like Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Andy Gray, Earl Barrett, Andy Sinton, Keith Curle, Jon. Salako……. |
|
|
|
Post by blueblood1883 on Jul 15, 2024 14:01:05 GMT
And then reality really starts to kick in 😁  |
|
|
|
Post by darkbluegas on Jul 15, 2024 15:29:15 GMT
Southgate seems to have pulled off a rather interesting trick of turning pre tournament favorites into plucky, not entirely unsuccessful, underdogs in the space of four weeks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Jul 15, 2024 16:08:17 GMT
Southgate seems to have pulled off a rather interesting trick of turning pre tournament favorites into plucky, not entirely unsuccessful, underdogs in the space of four weeks. Im in no way his biggest fan, but England should never have been pre-tournament favourites; our form was dreadful in the build up |
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jul 15, 2024 16:25:47 GMT
Quite right that we all have an opinion. Just saying that how can France, Italy, Spain, Germany win not just one, but multiple silverware in the last 60 years and we can’t win one in the same time. All those teams have had their issues and coming and going of great players in that period and still won. Again not once but multiple times. Those players mentioned have done well for their clubs. In an England shirt different story. Im pretty sure it’s a few years ago that we had an English BLD winner. Just guess settling for the ordinary is acceptable. I’m sorry we just don’t produce team players, just individuals. It’s the managers responsibility to select the right players and get them into a style of play and with tactics that make the team successful. Southgate hasn’t done that. Our academy system wasn’t built overnight but we’re now getting the products of the new academies coming through in high numbers. We’ve got more technically gifted players than ever before (maybe not so many in the centre back positions maybe?). A top manager would get far more out of these players. Southgate has done a great job in terms of team building, attitude, feel good factor etc but he’s way short in terms of tactics, strategy and in game management. I’ve no idea why the FA ever thought someone who failed in his only management role working with a senior team would work in the job of national team manager. On paper it may look like he’s done a good job when compared to previous England Managers but in the current era it’s easier than ever to qualify for major tournaments (even Scotland and Wales sometimes qualify these days), the tournaments are so big that it’s hard not to qualify from the group stages and it can’t be denied that under GS the draw has worked very fortunately in our favour. He’s also had very good players to choose from - would Southgate do better than Graham Taylor with players like Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Andy Gray, Earl Barrett, Andy Sinton, Keith Curle, Jon. Salako……. Problem is which "top manager" can we attract to replace GS, Potter flopped at Chelsea, Howe had a poor season at Newcastle and neither have won a big trophy with Lampard is probably just as bad a manager as Rooney. The limited number of English managers in the Premiership is probably a bigger issue than our Academy's. |
|
|
|
Post by daniel300380 on Jul 15, 2024 16:31:22 GMT
It’s the managers responsibility to select the right players and get them into a style of play and with tactics that make the team successful. Southgate hasn’t done that. Our academy system wasn’t built overnight but we’re now getting the products of the new academies coming through in high numbers. We’ve got more technically gifted players than ever before (maybe not so many in the centre back positions maybe?). A top manager would get far more out of these players. Southgate has done a great job in terms of team building, attitude, feel good factor etc but he’s way short in terms of tactics, strategy and in game management. I’ve no idea why the FA ever thought someone who failed in his only management role working with a senior team would work in the job of national team manager. On paper it may look like he’s done a good job when compared to previous England Managers but in the current era it’s easier than ever to qualify for major tournaments (even Scotland and Wales sometimes qualify these days), the tournaments are so big that it’s hard not to qualify from the group stages and it can’t be denied that under GS the draw has worked very fortunately in our favour. He’s also had very good players to choose from - would Southgate do better than Graham Taylor with players like Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Andy Gray, Earl Barrett, Andy Sinton, Keith Curle, Jon. Salako……. Problem is which "top manager" can we attract to replace GS, Potter flopped at Chelsea, Howe had a poor season at Newcastle and neither have won a big trophy with Lampard is probably just as bad a manager as Rooney. The limited number of English managers in the Premiership is probably a bigger issue than our Academy's. Look at Spain's managers history. He did okay, even though he took over at 61 and he had never managed above the 2nd tier and that was over a decade ago! All of those managers you named, has had more success than him. International management is a different ball game all together. Obviously players spend most of their time with their clubs. So the managers won't be developing the players much. So who knows, how anyone will do! We need someone who will try and take the pressure off, get them fighting for the shirt and can change things when necessary. Most top managers won't want it, I doubt Howe would even want it. They prefer to be involved every day and playing most weeks. |
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jul 15, 2024 17:41:52 GMT
Potter has never inspired me as a fighter etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jul 15, 2024 18:54:06 GMT
It’s the managers responsibility to select the right players and get them into a style of play and with tactics that make the team successful. Southgate hasn’t done that. Our academy system wasn’t built overnight but we’re now getting the products of the new academies coming through in high numbers. We’ve got more technically gifted players than ever before (maybe not so many in the centre back positions maybe?). A top manager would get far more out of these players. Southgate has done a great job in terms of team building, attitude, feel good factor etc but he’s way short in terms of tactics, strategy and in game management. I’ve no idea why the FA ever thought someone who failed in his only management role working with a senior team would work in the job of national team manager. On paper it may look like he’s done a good job when compared to previous England Managers but in the current era it’s easier than ever to qualify for major tournaments (even Scotland and Wales sometimes qualify these days), the tournaments are so big that it’s hard not to qualify from the group stages and it can’t be denied that under GS the draw has worked very fortunately in our favour. He’s also had very good players to choose from - would Southgate do better than Graham Taylor with players like Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Andy Gray, Earl Barrett, Andy Sinton, Keith Curle, Jon. Salako……. Problem is which "top manager" can we attract to replace GS, Potter flopped at Chelsea, Howe had a poor season at Newcastle and neither have won a big trophy with Lampard is probably just as bad a manager as Rooney. The limited number of English managers in the Premiership is probably a bigger issue than our Academy's. Hopefully as the development of English coaches improves and more come through we will have plenty of future England manager options. In the meantime we will probably need to recruit a foreign coach. Might be a long shot but Klopp loved living in this country and although the England job is stressful it isn’t so demanding in a non stop 24/7 way that club management is - he could split his time between living in Germany and England. I’d at least make the enquiry if I were the FA - if you don’t ask you don’t get. However, knowing the FA suits they will think Southgate was a resounding success and follow the internal pathway and give it to Steve Holland or Lee Carsley 🤣🤣 |
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Jul 15, 2024 19:27:24 GMT
Klopp's apparently made it clear he's not interested in the Germany job, if that's really the case it would be odd to then take the England job. Having said that it's odd he's walked away from the Liverpool job without any signs of another job being lined up, as he's hardly nearing retirement age. Although Zidane did similar and doesn't appear to have had a high profile job since he left club management.
|
|
|
|
Post by gasgas3 on Jul 15, 2024 19:39:17 GMT
Problem is which "top manager" can we attract to replace GS, Potter flopped at Chelsea, Howe had a poor season at Newcastle and neither have won a big trophy with Lampard is probably just as bad a manager as Rooney. The limited number of English managers in the Premiership is probably a bigger issue than our Academy's. Hopefully as the development of English coaches improves and more come through we will have plenty of future England manager options. In the meantime we will probably need to recruit a foreign coach. Might be a long shot but Klopp loved living in this country and although the England job is stressful it isn’t so demanding in a non stop 24/7 way that club management is - he could split his time between living in Germany and England. I’d at least make the enquiry if I were the FA - if you don’t ask you don’t get. However, knowing the FA suits they will think Southgate was a resounding success and follow the internal pathway and give it to Steve Holland or Lee Carsley 🤣🤣 Kinda have argued against yourself. I have no idea who will be the best England manager, like to think GS or the next guy gets the right support, and players. If you want to pick up on the academy system, it is what has given us the national team results over the last 60 years. I’d love to know what the answer is. But we have tried for a long time. 16 year old kid starts every game and won the tournament as part of a very slick in harmony team. I stick by my opinion that the academy system in English football is flawed. It’s only the Pep the influence in recent years that has changed a few of our youngsters. |
|
|
|
Post by oddball on Jul 15, 2024 20:46:49 GMT
And then reality really starts to kick in 😁 what a trip! |
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jul 15, 2024 21:01:10 GMT
Hopefully as the development of English coaches improves and more come through we will have plenty of future England manager options. In the meantime we will probably need to recruit a foreign coach. Might be a long shot but Klopp loved living in this country and although the England job is stressful it isn’t so demanding in a non stop 24/7 way that club management is - he could split his time between living in Germany and England. I’d at least make the enquiry if I were the FA - if you don’t ask you don’t get. However, knowing the FA suits they will think Southgate was a resounding success and follow the internal pathway and give it to Steve Holland or Lee Carsley 🤣🤣 Kinda have argued against yourself. I have no idea who will be the best England manager, like to think GS or the next guy gets the right support, and players. If you want to pick up on the academy system, it is what has given us the national team results over the last 60 years. I’d love to know what the answer is. But we have tried for a long time. 16 year old kid starts every game and won the tournament as part of a very slick in harmony team. I stick by my opinion that the academy system in English football is flawed. It’s only the Pep the influence in recent years that has changed a few of our youngsters. The academy system has been completely revolutionised in the past 10 to 15 years. The days of defenders just hoofing the ball up to a centre forward are long gone, nobody teaches that - even in league one defenders are trying to play tight little triangles in their own box! I can’t believe anyone would think nothing has changed in youth development over the past 60 years. We’re producing loads of high quality technical players and winning major tournaments regularly at the various youth levels. We will have a chance of winning senior tournaments if we have a manager who can get the best out of the current players. |
|
|
|
Post by heartofgas on Jul 16, 2024 9:46:15 GMT
Kinda have argued against yourself. I have no idea who will be the best England manager, like to think GS or the next guy gets the right support, and players. If you want to pick up on the academy system, it is what has given us the national team results over the last 60 years. I’d love to know what the answer is. But we have tried for a long time. 16 year old kid starts every game and won the tournament as part of a very slick in harmony team. I stick by my opinion that the academy system in English football is flawed. It’s only the Pep the influence in recent years that has changed a few of our youngsters. The academy system has been completely revolutionised in the past 10 to 15 years. The days of defenders just hoofing the ball up to a centre forward are long gone, nobody teaches that - even in league one defenders are trying to play tight little triangles in their own box! I can’t believe anyone would think nothing has changed in youth development over the past 60 years. We’re producing loads of high quality technical players and winning major tournaments regularly at the various youth levels. We will have a chance of winning senior tournaments if we have a manager who can get the best out of the current players. I agree, the current England players are technically gifted. The coaching is where we seem to be really lacking. When was the last time the premier league was won by an English manager? How many English managers manage premier league teams, even championship teams? Is our grass roots football bringing on coaches and if so are these coaches getting opportunities to manage? There has been a long held assumption by football clubs to take on ex players as managers even when they are clueless at managing (Rooney, lampard, Gerrard etc). Southgate has done alright but you can't help but think with a better manager we would have consecutive Euro titles and a possible world cup in the bag. |
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,549 
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jul 16, 2024 9:49:21 GMT
Has anyone suggested Lee Carsley?
|
|
stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,549
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jul 16, 2024 9:52:59 GMT
In terms of Gareth Southgate's future, personally I think it's time for a change anyway and for him too as it must be a lot of pressure on him for so long.
But I do think he's earned the right to choose himself.
|
|
yattongas
Forum Legend
Posts: 15,466
Member is Online
|
Post by yattongas on Jul 16, 2024 10:05:02 GMT
Southgate resigned
|
|
|
|
Post by eric on Jul 16, 2024 10:23:32 GMT
The academy system has been completely revolutionised in the past 10 to 15 years. The days of defenders just hoofing the ball up to a centre forward are long gone, nobody teaches that - even in league one defenders are trying to play tight little triangles in their own box! I can’t believe anyone would think nothing has changed in youth development over the past 60 years. We’re producing loads of high quality technical players and winning major tournaments regularly at the various youth levels. We will have a chance of winning senior tournaments if we have a manager who can get the best out of the current players. I agree, the current England players are technically gifted. The coaching is where we seem to be really lacking. When was the last time the premier league was won by an English manager? How many English managers manage premier league teams, even championship teams? Is our grass roots football bringing on coaches and if so are these coaches getting opportunities to manage? There has been a long held assumption by football clubs to take on ex players as managers even when they are clueless at managing (Rooney, lampard, Gerrard etc). Southgate has done alright but you can't help but think with a better manager we would have consecutive Euro titles and a possible world cup in the bag. Howard Wilkinson? I’m hoping that in the same way the new academy system has started bearing fruit with waves of talented and technical players coming through that the new approach and training of coaches will start to see good English coaches coming through - might already be starting with the likes of McKenna? May take a while yet for them to start getting top jobs though. |
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Jul 16, 2024 10:51:27 GMT
Early this century the FA completely revamped and modernised the way that children are coached to play in England, centred around the move to small sided games.
We need the same for coaches. It's £550 just to do UEFA C, FA coach support is lower than it's ever been (most coach development officers were made redundant by the FA a couple of years ago), level 1 is online and nowhere near the quality as when it was face to face. The professional academy coaches I know are paid terribly, and need about 4 jobs to pay the bills. It's really hard work for bugger all - they'll have the academy job, a grassroots team, a development centre role, and probably work for one of the professional coaching setups like Soccer Shooters or First Steps, or Tyrone Mings Academy. How are we ever going to bring through the most talented coaches like that?
|
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on Jul 16, 2024 11:05:54 GMT
Well done Gareth Southgate. You did a tremendous job and earned the right to leave under your own terms.
He took over a laughing stock in terms of top European nations and left England as one on the most consistently high achieving football teams in world football. He gave us all very good tournaments where we nearly did it despite losing at the last hurdle. He brought high standards in terms of behaviour, team culture and respect to the England team following on from where Allardyce had left us.
Well done Gareth, you deserve all the plaudits coming your way.
I think there are some very good candidates out there, not many but the right ones if they want the post. If they don't want it then England may find it hard to replace him. And as is often said when replacing someone who’s done well but who has his critics……. Be careful what you wish for.
UTG!
|
|
|
|
Post by percy on Jul 16, 2024 11:07:06 GMT
Well done Gareth Southgate. You did a tremendous job and earned the right to leave under your own terms. He took over a laughing stock in terms of top European nations and left England as one on the most consistently high achieving football teams in world football. He gave us all very good tournaments where we nearly did it despite losing at the last hurdle. He brought high standards in terms of behaviour, team culture and respect to the England team following on from where Allardyce had left us. Well done Gareth, you deserve all the plaudits coming your way. I think there are some very good candidates out there, not many but the right ones if they want the post. If they don't want it then England may find it hard to replace him. And as is often said when replacing someone who’s done well but who has his critics……. Be careful what you wish for. UTG! THIS |
|
