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Post by gasify on Jul 21, 2024 18:55:12 GMT
Investing in the squad rather than just banking the transfer fee money? That's not investment. That's replacement. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 21, 2024 19:05:54 GMT
Investing in the squad rather than just banking the transfer fee money? That's not investment. That's replacement. Whatever, it's still money going into the squad like at no other time in the past decade or so. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 21, 2024 19:10:11 GMT
The owners could have just as easily kept the £1m in the bank, or more likely, paid off some of last season's losses/debts. How many other L1 clubs, other than the top 6 have spent, anywhere near that amount on players over the last two transfer windows? MT also still has big signings McCormick and Connelly and Brown would have normally cost a decent transfer fee but for his assault conviction. Pure guess work but I'd say the list in spending order for transfer fees since January is some thing like: Birmingham Huddersfield Bolton Peterborough Charlton(?) Rovers Blackpool(?) I'm not sure if Rotherham have paid out any big transfer fees this summer? We're even outspending DC's Barnsley and probably Wrexham, so far anyway, on transfer fees alone. MT has been backed like no other manager since probably Holloway. Personally I have doubts he's up to the task. I don't agree with this, he has replaced players that have already left. You can't chuck: McCormick Connelly Brown Non of these were signed by MT and neither manager last season was able to get anything out of those three. Brown was a free transfer? Well, paid for by the morals rather than cash. When was the last time Rovers sold players for money? Having a quick google: Bodin - 17/18 season - £450k. We brought in: Sercombe - £170k Mensah - Around £80k (not 100%) Tom Nichols - Rumoured to be upwards of £350k Meyenase - Would have been less than £50k DC was backed like no other manager? Ellis - £840k We brought in: Stephan Payne - £200k? JCH - £400k? Problem is, they were for undisclosed fees so we just don't know. 20/21 Sold JCH for £1.4m Brought in: Hanlan Westbrooke Williams This is when it feels like we swapped transfer fees for higher wages. In 22/23 season, we signed: Connoly Rossitor McCormick I would expect those three to have cost around £500k, if not more. With no outgoing player to subsidise. The following summer, we brought in Connor Taylor for around £350k and with loft being the only outgoing player (£100k?). Then we sold Collins and then Evans. That money has been invested in: Conteh - £300k? Hutchinson -£300? Omochere - £500k? With lets say £750k for AC and £450k for AE, then the owners have backed MT with -£100k? So, I don't think it is fair to say that MT has been backed like no other Rovers Manager. In the last few years, no other Rovers manager have found themselves in a position where they have had to replace two key attacking players like AC and AE. If anything, MT has been backed less than the previous two incumbents. JCH was a free transfer, I've no idea where you got £400K from, anyway your data confirms that no other recent Rovers manager has been given around £1m to spend on transfer fee alone. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 21, 2024 19:15:06 GMT
Investing in the squad rather than just banking the transfer fee money? That's not investment. That's replacement. "Then we sold Collins and then Evans. That money has been invested in: Conteh - £300k? Hutchinson -£300? Omochere - £500k?" So it's OK for you to post that money was invested in the squad but not for other posters to post it" I believe we've also paid a few for Raul, I wouldn't be surprised if that was similar to Conteh's. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 21, 2024 19:41:15 GMT
Just look at it as reinvestment. Both of you are correct then. 😶
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Post by gasify on Jul 21, 2024 19:55:21 GMT
I don't agree with this, he has replaced players that have already left. You can't chuck: McCormick Connelly Brown Non of these were signed by MT and neither manager last season was able to get anything out of those three. Brown was a free transfer? Well, paid for by the morals rather than cash. When was the last time Rovers sold players for money? Having a quick google: Bodin - 17/18 season - £450k. We brought in: Sercombe - £170k Mensah - Around £80k (not 100%) Tom Nichols - Rumoured to be upwards of £350k Meyenase - Would have been less than £50k DC was backed like no other manager? Ellis - £840k We brought in: Stephan Payne - £200k? JCH - £400k? Problem is, they were for undisclosed fees so we just don't know. 20/21 Sold JCH for £1.4m Brought in: Hanlan Westbrooke Williams This is when it feels like we swapped transfer fees for higher wages. In 22/23 season, we signed: Connoly Rossitor McCormick I would expect those three to have cost around £500k, if not more. With no outgoing player to subsidise. The following summer, we brought in Connor Taylor for around £350k and with loft being the only outgoing player (£100k?). Then we sold Collins and then Evans. That money has been invested in: Conteh - £300k? Hutchinson -£300? Omochere - £500k? With lets say £750k for AC and £450k for AE, then the owners have backed MT with -£100k? So, I don't think it is fair to say that MT has been backed like no other Rovers Manager. In the last few years, no other Rovers manager have found themselves in a position where they have had to replace two key attacking players like AC and AE. If anything, MT has been backed less than the previous two incumbents. JCH was a free transfer, I've no idea where you got £400K from, anyway your data confirms that no other recent Rovers manager has been given around £1m to spend on transfer fee alone. The data shows a couple of other things too, which I don't quite understand why you don't recognise (actually, I'm starting to think it's purely anti MT rhetoric) which is no other manager has had two players stripped out of their squad worth £1.2m plus. I think some are trying to pile the pressure on MT when there really is no need to. Take a chill pill and let's see where we are after the first 10 games. What I think is happening is that we are gearing up for a year 3 promotion push, that gives another 5 transfer windows to improve the squad to that aim. |
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Post by Quarters on Jul 21, 2024 20:31:00 GMT
JCH was a free transfer, I've no idea where you got £400K from, anyway your data confirms that no other recent Rovers manager has been given around £1m to spend on transfer fee alone. The data shows a couple of other things too, which I don't quite understand why you don't recognise (actually, I'm starting to think it's purely anti MT rhetoric) which is no other manager has had two players stripped out of their squad worth £1.2m plus. I think some are trying to pile the pressure on MT when there really is no need to. Take a chill pill and let's see where we are after the first 10 games. What I think is happening is that we are gearing up for a year 3 promotion push, that gives another 5 transfer windows to improve the squad to that aim. Martyn and Penrice for £1.5 million and we were still promoted. Replaced for about £30k |
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Post by oliverhelmet on Jul 21, 2024 20:56:59 GMT
Looks like we’ve got some pace in the full back positions at long last. Last one with any pace was probably Michael Smith so 2014? Those are really important positions and could help us get a top half finish.Dont think we will be near promotion challengers but top half would be very decent return. edit : had to vote for inside top 10 as no top half finish option. Dan Leadbitter? Marc Bola? (Probably not quick) Certainly not since Dan L. 👍 And I agree top half. UTG! Oh yeh how could I forget about Leads as he supplied the superb cross (after nipping in and skipping over a challenge) at Oxford for one of my favourite gas goals scored by he who shall not be named.he was quick but that was about the end of his talent on a normal day.I can’t remember Bola standing out in the pace department but probably a lot faster than the likes of Browner and numerous others who have played in the full back positions over the last 10 years. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 21, 2024 20:57:24 GMT
JCH was a free transfer, I've no idea where you got £400K from, anyway your data confirms that no other recent Rovers manager has been given around £1m to spend on transfer fee alone. The data shows a couple of other things too, which I don't quite understand why you don't recognise (actually, I'm starting to think it's purely anti MT rhetoric) which is no other manager has had two players stripped out of their squad worth £1.2m plus. I think some are trying to pile the pressure on MT when there really is no need to. Take a chill pill and let's see where we are after the first 10 games. What I think is happening is that we are gearing up for a year 3 promotion push, that gives another 5 transfer windows to improve the squad to that aim. I doubt posting that MT's had a decent budget to spend this summer is giving him sleepless nights. I'm pleasantly surprised how much MT's been given to spend and what a good job he, along with GF, appear to have done recruiting players. Perhaps you want to stop trying to downplay how much backing the owners have given MT and accept he's got far better backing than most of us expected this summer. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Jul 21, 2024 21:02:50 GMT
The data shows a couple of other things too, which I don't quite understand why you don't recognise (actually, I'm starting to think it's purely anti MT rhetoric) which is no other manager has had two players stripped out of their squad worth £1.2m plus. I think some are trying to pile the pressure on MT when there really is no need to. Take a chill pill and let's see where we are after the first 10 games. What I think is happening is that we are gearing up for a year 3 promotion push, that gives another 5 transfer windows to improve the squad to that aim. I doubt posting that MT's had a decent budget to spend this summer is giving him sleepless nights. I'm pleasantly surprised how much MT's been given to spend and what a good job he, along with GF, appear to have done recruiting players. Perhaps you want to stop trying to downplay how much backing the owners have given MT and accept he's got far better backing than most of us expected this summer. How can you say he’s done a good job recruiting players when we haven’t played a league game yet ? They might be excellent, they might be 💩. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 21, 2024 21:55:01 GMT
I doubt posting that MT's had a decent budget to spend this summer is giving him sleepless nights. I'm pleasantly surprised how much MT's been given to spend and what a good job he, along with GF, appear to have done recruiting players. Perhaps you want to stop trying to downplay how much backing the owners have given MT and accept he's got far better backing than most of us expected this summer. How can you say he’s done a good job recruiting players when we haven’t played a league game yet ? They might be excellent, they might be 💩. I said "appear" as they do appear good on paper, whether MT can get them to perform is another issue. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Jul 21, 2024 21:57:36 GMT
How can you say he’s done a good job recruiting players when we haven’t played a league game yet ? They might be excellent, they might be 💩. I said "appear" as they do appear good on paper, whether MT can get them to perform is another issue. Why do they “appear” to be good then Topper ? |
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Post by chewbacca on Jul 21, 2024 22:05:45 GMT
You’re all arguing over undisclosed transfer fees.
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Post by socrates on Jul 21, 2024 22:29:20 GMT
Absolutely no idea where we’ll finish as it’s a very new looking squad and we’ve only played a handful of pre season friendlies and I’ve only seen highlights of two of them.
I could guess but i don’t see the point.
I’d be happy with progress on last season so anything above 15th would be that.
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Post by gasify on Jul 22, 2024 5:23:24 GMT
You’re all arguing over undisclosed transfer fees. Exactly |
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Post by gasify on Jul 22, 2024 5:38:38 GMT
The data shows a couple of other things too, which I don't quite understand why you don't recognise (actually, I'm starting to think it's purely anti MT rhetoric) which is no other manager has had two players stripped out of their squad worth £1.2m plus. I think some are trying to pile the pressure on MT when there really is no need to. Take a chill pill and let's see where we are after the first 10 games. What I think is happening is that we are gearing up for a year 3 promotion push, that gives another 5 transfer windows to improve the squad to that aim. I doubt posting that MT's had a decent budget to spend this summer is giving him sleepless nights. I'm pleasantly surprised how much MT's been given to spend and what a good job he, along with GF, appear to have done recruiting players. Perhaps you want to stop trying to downplay how much backing the owners have given MT and accept he's got far better backing than most of us expected this summer. Perhaps you want to stop trying to pile pressure on MT even before the season has started. You are showing signs of being anti MT in your previous posts and you are now being less that subtle with the way you are trying to say he has been given a huge amount of investment. You are very close to heaping "the best squad ever" rubbish on them. What you are forgetting is that there is two ways to play the player acquisition game: 1) Get players on a free transfer (normally in the sunset of their career), pay a big signing on fee (never gets reported) and then pay very high wages. The chance of any future cash flow in selling those players is normally limited. 2) Get players for a transfer fee. They are usually players in the morning of their career, wages normally lower. We benefit from their quality through the morning of their career and then sell them for the afternoon of their career for a profit. The backing of the manager is made up from three variables: 1) Income from player sales. 2) Transfer fees paid 3) Wages paid I wouldn't be surprised if we have removed £1m from the wage budget this year with the outgoing of players we have seen since then end of last season. I wouldn't be surprised that across those three variables, MT has actually cost the club less than the last manager. |
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Post by kernowgas on Jul 22, 2024 7:06:44 GMT
I doubt posting that MT's had a decent budget to spend this summer is giving him sleepless nights. I'm pleasantly surprised how much MT's been given to spend and what a good job he, along with GF, appear to have done recruiting players. Perhaps you want to stop trying to downplay how much backing the owners have given MT and accept he's got far better backing than most of us expected this summer. Perhaps you want to stop trying to pile pressure on MT even before the season has started. You are showing signs of being anti MT in your previous posts and you are now being less that subtle with the way you are trying to say he has been given a huge amount of investment. You are very close to heaping "the best squad ever" rubbish on them. What you are forgetting is that there is two ways to play the player acquisition game: 1) Get players on a free transfer (normally in the sunset of their career), pay a big signing on fee (never gets reported) and then pay very high wages. The chance of any future cash flow in selling those players is normally limited. 2) Get players for a transfer fee. They are usually players in the morning of their career, wages normally lower. We benefit from their quality through the morning of their career and then sell them for the afternoon of their career for a profit.
The backing of the manager is made up from three variables: 1) Income from player sales. 2) Transfer fees paid 3) Wages paid I wouldn't be surprised if we have removed £1m from the wage budget this year with the outgoing of players we have seen since then end of last season. I wouldn't be surprised that across those three variables, MT has actually cost the club less than the last manager. I like what we have done and understand that we need to speculate to accumulate and have to to pay a transfer fee for up and coming young talent. Not a criticism of GF or MT but a realisation of where we are at with our recruitment process but we are 1 or 2 steps away from where we should be. We are currently buying talent from league 2 and league 1, except for Ellison and Bilongo, whereas we should be picking up talent from 1 or 2 tiers below at least....if we spot that talent the profit margins increase considerably but on the flip side also the gamble on a player increases. Examples....Omochere is picked up from Bohemians by Fleetwood for £85kish and we buy 2 years later for £500k....Conteh is picked up from Middleborough u21 by Grimsby on a free and we buy 6 months later for 300k. If Fleetwood and Grimsby can do it I'm sure we can do it too....maybe Bilongo is our Conteh and our recruitment team are moving in the right direction. |
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Post by gasify on Jul 22, 2024 7:54:49 GMT
Perhaps you want to stop trying to pile pressure on MT even before the season has started. You are showing signs of being anti MT in your previous posts and you are now being less that subtle with the way you are trying to say he has been given a huge amount of investment. You are very close to heaping "the best squad ever" rubbish on them. What you are forgetting is that there is two ways to play the player acquisition game: 1) Get players on a free transfer (normally in the sunset of their career), pay a big signing on fee (never gets reported) and then pay very high wages. The chance of any future cash flow in selling those players is normally limited. 2) Get players for a transfer fee. They are usually players in the morning of their career, wages normally lower. We benefit from their quality through the morning of their career and then sell them for the afternoon of their career for a profit.
The backing of the manager is made up from three variables: 1) Income from player sales. 2) Transfer fees paid 3) Wages paid I wouldn't be surprised if we have removed £1m from the wage budget this year with the outgoing of players we have seen since then end of last season. I wouldn't be surprised that across those three variables, MT has actually cost the club less than the last manager. I like what we have done and understand that we need to speculate to accumulate and have to to pay a transfer fee for up and coming young talent. Not a criticism of GF or MT but a realisation of where we are at with our recruitment process but we are 1 or 2 steps away from where we should be. We are currently buying talent from league 2 and league 1, except for Ellison and Bilongo, whereas we should be picking up talent from 1 or 2 tiers below at least....if we spot that talent the profit margins increase considerably but on the flip side also the gamble on a player increases. Examples....Omochere is picked up from Bohemians by Fleetwood for £85kish and we buy 2 years later for £500k....Conteh is picked up from Middleborough u21 by Grimsby on a free and we buy 6 months later for 300k. If Fleetwood and Grimsby can do it I'm sure we can do it too....maybe Bilongo is our Conteh and our recruitment team are moving in the right direction. I agree with that as a destination, but we aren't ready for it yet. The players that we have paid a fee for have proven themselves in the football league. There is still a chance that they had already reached their level but I trust the team and expect them to be Championship level in a couple of seasons. The problem we have right now is that we don't have a route to the first team. So I would expect some work going on behind the scenes to get that pathway open. I agree that Feetwood and Grimsby have made a good profit in a short space of time. I'm sure I'm wrong but the last player I remember us buying from non league (apart from Ellison) was Bernard Mensah for about £80k and that didn't really go well. When was the last time we discovered a diamond from Non League? Do we have to go back to the Gerry Francis era? |
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Post by kernowgas on Jul 22, 2024 8:54:03 GMT
I like what we have done and understand that we need to speculate to accumulate and have to to pay a transfer fee for up and coming young talent. Not a criticism of GF or MT but a realisation of where we are at with our recruitment process but we are 1 or 2 steps away from where we should be. We are currently buying talent from league 2 and league 1, except for Ellison and Bilongo, whereas we should be picking up talent from 1 or 2 tiers below at least....if we spot that talent the profit margins increase considerably but on the flip side also the gamble on a player increases. Examples....Omochere is picked up from Bohemians by Fleetwood for £85kish and we buy 2 years later for £500k....Conteh is picked up from Middleborough u21 by Grimsby on a free and we buy 6 months later for 300k. If Fleetwood and Grimsby can do it I'm sure we can do it too....maybe Bilongo is our Conteh and our recruitment team are moving in the right direction. I agree with that as a destination, but we aren't ready for it yet. The players that we have paid a fee for have proven themselves in the football league. There is still a chance that they had already reached their level but I trust the team and expect them to be Championship level in a couple of seasons. The problem we have right now is that we don't have a route to the first team. So I would expect some work going on behind the scenes to get that pathway open. I agree that Feetwood and Grimsby have made a good profit in a short space of time. I'm sure I'm wrong but the last player I remember us buying from non league (apart from Ellison) was Bernard Mensah for about £80k and that didn't really go well. When was the last time we discovered a diamond from Non League? Do we have to go back to the Gerry Francis era? Total agree that we aren't ready for that step yet and if we don't put a reserve/u23/u21 team in place we never will. We couldn't have taken a 'gamble' on Conteh when Grimsby did as he was unlikely League 1 ready....half a season at Grimsby, he kicks on and he's ready! Our current policy might be the way to go though. More expensive and less of a gamble. Will be interesting over the next season or two as to whether we make money on Conteh and Omochere! Agree that in recent times we've struggled to find those diamonds....would be nice to get back to those days and start taking some calculated gambles on local talent. I'm hoping that Ellison has a realistic pathway and plan and becomes a regular in a season or two....then other local talent might trust us! |
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Post by gasify on Jul 22, 2024 12:08:53 GMT
I agree with that as a destination, but we aren't ready for it yet. The players that we have paid a fee for have proven themselves in the football league. There is still a chance that they had already reached their level but I trust the team and expect them to be Championship level in a couple of seasons. The problem we have right now is that we don't have a route to the first team. So I would expect some work going on behind the scenes to get that pathway open. I agree that Feetwood and Grimsby have made a good profit in a short space of time. I'm sure I'm wrong but the last player I remember us buying from non league (apart from Ellison) was Bernard Mensah for about £80k and that didn't really go well. When was the last time we discovered a diamond from Non League? Do we have to go back to the Gerry Francis era? Total agree that we aren't ready for that step yet and if we don't put a reserve/u23/u21 team in place we never will. We couldn't have taken a 'gamble' on Conteh when Grimsby did as he was unlikely League 1 ready....half a season at Grimsby, he kicks on and he's ready! Our current policy might be the way to go though. More expensive and less of a gamble. Will be interesting over the next season or two as to whether we make money on Conteh and Omochere! Agree that in recent times we've struggled to find those diamonds....would be nice to get back to those days and start taking some calculated gambles on local talent. I'm hoping that Ellison has a realistic pathway and plan and becomes a regular in a season or two....then other local talent might trust us! There are two other players that should get a mention, Rollin Menayese (WSM) and Tom Broadbent (Hayes & Yeading). Both went straight into the first team and I expect that Ellison has come to break into the first team this season. I would be very surprised if we have bought him for next season or the season after. This is Rovers, we don't plan that far ahead! Or do we? |
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