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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 8:36:28 GMT
1) Why do I need a PhD in Structural dynamics to question how a a paper passport was one of the only bits of the plane or building to survive the impact? - I know of an incident where someone was killed by a bomb, and the only bit they found of him was the complete skin of his face, complete with his moustache ! Strange effects can happen around explosions. CCTV - There has been CCTV footage released from one of the car entrances where a Police car drives past very slowly, probably about 5mph, and the Police car only appears in three frames of the CCTV footage. The plane hits the Pentagon in the background of the same footage but the actual plane is not shown as it is travelling too fast. The chances of catching a plane travelling at over 450mph in the frames is very very small. CCTV footage has been released by the truth is that the plane doesn't appear on any of it. Dummy exercises - You'd be surprised if you were actually aware of the number of exercises that take place on a daily/weekly basis, be it Firemen, Police, Ambulance, or even all three. Throw in the various units of the military, then the intelligence services, and there are many many units that need constant training. explosion? I thought it was a plane strike and fire?  One cctv camera film? Yeah. I dont suppose there would be many more cameras around the Pentagon so that's fair enough. I concede your point about exercises. That makes some logical sense and is believable. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 9:20:10 GMT
Well this evening just got interesting. I'll lay down the same questions I did to her: - Where did you get your PhD in structural dynamics from? - Why did the US Government need to construct such an elaborate pretext for war when good old fashioned nationalism was enough to whip up support for it's 240 years of other wars? - Why is a government conspiracy a more convincing motive than radical Islamism fuelled by close to a century of divide and conquer by the west in the Middle East? 1) Why do I need a PhD in Structural dynamics to question how a a paper passport was one of the only bits of the plane or building to survive the impact? Why no cctv of the planes hitting the Pentagon? They could release it tomorrow and clear it up right there and then. Why is it that every time something like this happens it's at the same time and place that dummy exercises are taking place which always seeem to confuse any kind of response? This happened in 911, Boston Bomb and Sandy Hook. 2) Pearl Harbour/JFK/Cuba-Communists. The US has some sketchy history in constructing pretexts for war. Money is tight and people need to be kept in genuine fear to support the war on terror. Nationalism isn't enough and never has been. Many Americans don't care about the rest of the world until it affects them, but that's changing. Recent polls on Discovery. History Channel and one other I forget, but it may be CNN all revealed that less that half of the American population believe the 911 report. 3) I don't deny the threat and motivation of Radical Islam. Thankfully the US has absolutely no history in supporting rebels around the globe with training and arms and money....... When I get home from work we are gonna debate the flip out of this my good sir. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 9:33:26 GMT
1) Why do I need a PhD in Structural dynamics to question how a a paper passport was one of the only bits of the plane or building to survive the impact? - I know of an incident where someone was killed by a bomb, and the only bit they found of him was the complete skin of his face, complete with his moustache ! Strange effects can happen around explosions. CCTV - There has been CCTV footage released from one of the car entrances where a Police car drives past very slowly, probably about 5mph, and the Police car only appears in three frames of the CCTV footage. The plane hits the Pentagon in the background of the same footage but the actual plane is not shown as it is travelling too fast. The chances of catching a plane travelling at over 450mph in the frames is very very small. CCTV footage has been released by the truth is that the plane doesn't appear on any of it. Dummy exercises - You'd be surprised if you were actually aware of the number of exercises that take place on a daily/weekly basis, be it Firemen, Police, Ambulance, or even all three. Throw in the various units of the military, then the intelligence services, and there are many many units that need constant training. explosion? I thought it was a plane strike and fire? One cctv camera film? Yeah. I dont suppose there would be many more cameras around the Pentagon so that's fair enough. I concede your point about exercises. That makes some logical sense and is believable. Depends on the definition of 'explosion'. I've said before, that people who think the Pentagon was surrounded by defensive measures are wrong. Yes, there were CCTV cameras covering places like road entrances etc, but they didn't have any cameras pointing up into thin air. As for the CCTV footage taken from the garage, well, that camera would not have been pointing at the Pentagon (which incidentally you cannot see from the road) but would have been pointing at the garage forecourt. Try to use some common sense, and I don't mean that to come across in a negative way. As I have said before, I have two friends who saw the aircraft, and to be honest, there is a huge difference between a Boeing aircraft and a cruise missile. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 15:09:10 GMT
The excercise bit is not convincing to me.
The difference between 'pan' and 'mayday' is basic aviation.
It's not as if the whole rapid reaction force would be at exercise stations at the same time either.
We don't use eyes as much anymore, more GPS and Tacan so all that BS about not knowing who, what and why fools nobody.
911 was a plot. The sad thing is it will never be proven.
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Post by inee on Jul 7, 2015 17:21:06 GMT
The other thing is if it was a genuine terrorist plot someone somewhere (us agency would have known ) and let it continue, a lot of people passed on footage to help a lot of this was never returned,
Nobby the missile thing is a pre impact before the plane hit, look at the footage and what appears to be a missile can be seen just in front of the plane it impact a few seconds before the plane, could it have been a sam fired to hit the plane but missed
Other anomilies are the paused in the footage just before the plane appears,
Someone mentioned why would the us do something like that to go to war, well the yanks seem lukewarm on wars, but as soon as an attack of any description on the us mainland is declared most of em immediately want revenge.
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Post by inee on Jul 7, 2015 17:23:33 GMT
The excercise bit is not convincing to me. The difference between 'pan' and 'mayday' is basic aviation. It's not as if the whole rapid reaction force would be at exercise stations at the same time either. We don't use eyes as much anymore, more GPS and Tacan so all that BS about not knowing who, what and why fools nobody. 911 was a plot. The sad thing is it will never be proven. It will but not in our lifetime, look at the jfk murder,stuff is still being released now which just seems to go along with the conspiracy theories |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:25:50 GMT
The other thing is if it was a genuine terrorist plot someone somewhere (us agency would have known ) and let it continue, a lot of people passed on footage to help a lot of this was never returned, Nobby the missile thing is a pre impact before the plane hit, look at the footage and what appears to be a missile can be seen just in front of the plane it impact a few seconds before the plane, could it have been a sam fired to hit the plane but missed Other anomilies are the paused in the footage just before the plane appears, Someone mentioned why would the us do something like that to go to war, well the yanks seem lukewarm on wars, but as soon as an attack of any description on the us mainland is declared most of em immediately want revenge. A SAM? No is the answer. A SAM only has a small warhead. It is designed to spray metal pieces around and not to directly hit the target......the other scenario......why oh why would anyone fire a missile from a big aircraft that is going to hit the target anyway? Who installed the missile system on the aircraft. Why wasn't it spotted at the civilian airport? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 18:29:40 GMT
The other thing is if it was a genuine terrorist plot someone somewhere (us agency would have known ) and let it continue, a lot of people passed on footage to help a lot of this was never returned, Nobby the missile thing is a pre impact before the plane hit, look at the footage and what appears to be a missile can be seen just in front of the plane it impact a few seconds before the plane, could it have been a sam fired to hit the plane but missed Other anomilies are the paused in the footage just before the plane appears, Someone mentioned why would the us do something like that to go to war, well the yanks seem lukewarm on wars, but as soon as an attack of any description on the us mainland is declared most of em immediately want revenge. A SAM? No is the answer. A SAM only has a small warhead. It is designed to spray metal pieces around and not to directly hit the target......the other scenario......why oh why would anyone fire a missile from a big aircraft that is going to hit the target anyway? Who installed the missile system on the aircraft. Why wasn't it spotted at the civilian airport? I'm inclined to believe an aircraft hit the towers. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 7, 2015 19:32:10 GMT
Hope you don't mind me adding my two penneth here. I agree with Nobbygas.
My understanding is that the aviation fuel heated up enough to soften the steel in the towers, not melted it. It was sufficient to weaken the structure which then collapsed in on its own weight, causing the impression of a controlled explosion even to the extent that smoke came from the base. Kind of a horizontal domino effect if you like.
Try it with a house of cards, knock out the penultimate level and watch it fall in and not topple over.
If a government is so powerful that it could rig a public building with enough explosives without being noticed by the thousands who work there or visit daily, then how could that same government be so incompetent that it leaves so many clues. The paradox of the conspiracy theory.
That said, I do enjoy looking at things with an open mind. Do you recall the prison riots of 1989? It seemed at the time unusual that Strangeways ran on for a couple of weeks while the others, including Horfield, were resolved in hours or days. Nothing to do with the Home Office putting pressure to string it out whilst at the same time the Poll Tax issue was being pushed down in the news order.
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Post by inee on Jul 7, 2015 19:35:48 GMT
Hope you don't mind me adding my two penneth here. I agree with Nobbygas. My understanding is that the aviation fuel heated up enough to soften the steel in the towers, not melted it. It was sufficient to weaken the structure which then collapsed in on its own weight, causing the impression of a controlled explosion even to the extent that smoke came from the base. Kind of a horizontal domino effect if you like. Try it with a house of cards, knock out the penultimate level and watch it fall in and not topple over. If a government is so powerful that it could rig a public building with enough explosives without being noticed by the thousands who work there or visit daily, then how could that same government be so incompetent that it leaves so many clues. The paradox of the conspiracy theory. That said, I do enjoy looking at things with an open mind. Do you recall the prison riots of 1989? It seemed at the time unusual that Strangeways ran on for a couple of weeks while the others, including Horfield, were resolved in hours or days. Nothing to do with the Home Office putting pressure to string it out whilst at the same time the Poll Tax issue was being pushed down in the news order. some good points about the prison riots, it's a common denominator in this country suddenly massive news breaks and then sometimes goes quiet ,it's as if succesive governments think us ordinary people will never notice  |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 7, 2015 19:49:10 GMT
I've probably watched too much Yes Minister to take many politicians and their motives seriously. It's how they answer a question which often underlines the actual reason rather than what is said.
It is a shame we can't vote for our constituency MP who invariably do a hard and dedicated job for their constituents and a separate Executive who run the government. They are all put in together with the few bad eggs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 21:03:07 GMT
Hope you don't mind me adding my two penneth here. I agree with Nobbygas. My understanding is that the aviation fuel heated up enough to soften the steel in the towers, not melted it. It was sufficient to weaken the structure which then collapsed in on its own weight, causing the impression of a controlled explosion even to the extent that smoke came from the base. Kind of a horizontal domino effect if you like. Try it with a house of cards, knock out the penultimate level and watch it fall in and not topple over. If a government is so powerful that it could rig a public building with enough explosives without being noticed by the thousands who work there or visit daily, then how could that same government be so incompetent that it leaves so many clues. The paradox of the conspiracy theory. That said, I do enjoy looking at things with an open mind. Do you recall the prison riots of 1989? It seemed at the time unusual that Strangeways ran on for a couple of weeks while the others, including Horfield, were resolved in hours or days. Nothing to do with the Home Office putting pressure to string it out whilst at the same time the Poll Tax issue was being pushed down in the news order. Yeah, how many were there on that particular day compared to usual? Excluding those who were told not to turn up for work that day of course. Oh and lets not forget the official dossier that claimed a false flag event was needed to instigate action in the middle east. They even mentioned your towers as an example in that one. Guys, you'll never convince me otherwise. There was some funny business happening there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 21:16:00 GMT
Months and months of repair works and fire guarding and asbestos removal was undertaken over several months about a year prior to the attacks. On the floors the planes hit.
Gosh.
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Post by aghast on Jul 7, 2015 21:19:16 GMT
So they murdered thousands of their own people to get public support for a war on Islam?
A war which would have easily been sanctioned anyway since the Republicans control the Senate?
And a war which has never been a war since they fight with one hand tied behind their back? Don't shoot unless you're shot at. Don't hit civilian targets. Don't invade non-directly involved countries.
If this was a masterplan to invoke total war on the Islamists, it's been a fairly poor one. The USA could wipe out the radical elements of IS if it chose to, with huge additional civilian casualties. Plenty of Republican hawks would support that.
They don't need conspiracy theories to do it. They could do it any time, with Republican and public support.
They just choose not to do it. Yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 21:24:35 GMT
So they murdered thousands of their own people to get public support for a war on Islam? A war which would have easily be sanctioned anyway since the Republicans control the Senate? And a war which has never been a war since they fight with one hand tied behind their back? Don't shoot unless you're shot at. Don't hit civilain targets. Don't invade non-directly involved countries. If this was a masterplan to invoke total war on the Islamists, it's been a fairly poor one. The USA could wipe out the radical elements of IS if it chose to, with huge additional civilian casualties. Plenty of Republican hawks would support that. They don't need huge conspiracy theories to do it. They could do it any time, with Republican and public support. They just choose not to do it. Yet. Ah but if this was a war to control people with fear Id say its been pretty successful wouldn't you? Afghan - go for it. Iraq - yes please. Anything to stop the terror. Don't forget the pipes lads. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 21:28:06 GMT
So they murdered thousands of their own people to get public support for a war on Islam? A war which would have easily be sanctioned anyway since the Republicans control the Senate? And a war which has never been a war since they fight with one hand tied behind their back? Don't shoot unless you're shot at. Don't hit civilain targets. Don't invade non-directly involved countries. If this was a masterplan to invoke total war on the Islamists, it's been a fairly poor one. The USA could wipe out the radical elements of IS if it chose to, with huge additional civilian casualties. Plenty of Republican hawks would support that. They don't need huge conspiracy theories to do it. They could do it any time, with Republican and public support. They just choose not to do it. Yet. The war on terror was never about war on Islam. It's a war on massive invasion of civil liberties. The US has no intention of beating ISIS. Did you see how quickly they turned Boston into a locked down military state following the Boston marathon bomb? That is the future. And people will welcome it because they are shitscared of "terror" |
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Post by jaggas on Jul 7, 2015 21:35:41 GMT
Left-wing Greek Finance Minister leads winning referendum campaign and is then forced to quit by left-wing Greek Prime Minister because the EU (ie Germany) demanded it. What's going on there then? Does Germany now pick everyone's cabinet ministers? No, it was because he was a complete waste of time. A man who has never ran a successful business, nor Government, who only had his intellectual student ideas. They were proven to be no good in the real world. His personal wealth only comes from marrying a rich woman. Game Theory only works if both sides play it. If a deal is to be reached he had to be removed. I think if I went in to see my Bank Manager to ask for more money and called him a lady garden, I'd probably not get very far with my request. I'd be better off sending the missus in. She's more diplomatic than I am. The man was an economic joke. To be fair nobby Greece like Ireland,Portugal,Spain,Italy and France should never have joined the euro as none of their economies were strong enough.The whole Euro concept has been a failure and the UK along with all the economic experts have been proved right. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 5:50:35 GMT
No, it was because he was a complete waste of time. A man who has never ran a successful business, nor Government, who only had his intellectual student ideas. They were proven to be no good in the real world. His personal wealth only comes from marrying a rich woman. Game Theory only works if both sides play it. If a deal is to be reached he had to be removed. I think if I went in to see my Bank Manager to ask for more money and called him a lady garden, I'd probably not get very far with my request. I'd be better off sending the missus in. She's more diplomatic than I am. The man was an economic joke. To be fair nobby Greece like Ireland,Portugal,Spain,Italy and France should never have joined the euro as none of their economies were strong enough.The whole Euro concept has been a failure and the UK along with all the economic experts have been proved right. Spot on ! |
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Post by inee on Jul 8, 2015 9:52:37 GMT
1) Why do I need a PhD in Structural dynamics to question how a a paper passport was one of the only bits of the plane or building to survive the impact? Why no cctv of the planes hitting the Pentagon? They could release it tomorrow and clear it up right there and then. Why is it that every time something like this happens it's at the same time and place that dummy exercises are taking place which always seeem to confuse any kind of response? This happened in 911, Boston Bomb and Sandy Hook. 2) Pearl Harbour/JFK/Cuba-Communists. The US has some sketchy history in constructing pretexts for war. Money is tight and people need to be kept in genuine fear to support the war on terror. Nationalism isn't enough and never has been. Many Americans don't care about the rest of the world until it affects them, but that's changing. Recent polls on Discovery. History Channel and one other I forget, but it may be CNN all revealed that less that half of the American population believe the 911 report. 3) I don't deny the threat and motivation of Radical Islam. Thankfully the US has absolutely no history in supporting rebels around the globe with training and arms and money....... When I get home from work we are gonna debate the flip out of this my good sir. now theres a conspiracy, christ you work some hours fella  |
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Post by inee on Jul 8, 2015 10:03:18 GMT
So they murdered thousands of their own people to get public support for a war on Islam? A war which would have easily be sanctioned anyway since the Republicans control the Senate? And a war which has never been a war since they fight with one hand tied behind their back? Don't shoot unless you're shot at. Don't hit civilain targets. Don't invade non-directly involved countries. If this was a masterplan to invoke total war on the Islamists, it's been a fairly poor one. The USA could wipe out the radical elements of IS if it chose to, with huge additional civilian casualties. Plenty of Republican hawks would support that. They don't need huge conspiracy theories to do it. They could do it any time, with Republican and public support. They just choose not to do it. Yet. The war on terror was never about war on Islam. It's a war on massive invasion of civil liberties. The US has no intention of beating ISIS. Did you see how quickly they turned Boston into a locked down military state following the Boston marathon bomb? That is the future. And people will welcome it because they are shitscared of "terror" I mentioned earlier about the usa ,uk and other nations sending shed loads of weaponry, equipment to syria, makes me wonder if it was a way of indirectly arming a new enemy, its not as if we haven't done it before, The americans have got wise to war, they finally noticed that a good war is a good money earner, and seem to support war less as years go by,but the quickest way to fire up support for war in america is to have an attack on domestic soil As an aside did anyone see that choudry bloke on the goggle box the other night , really makes my water boil that bloke, he was justifying the destruction of monuments by them, saying their bible says no false idols(something like that) so it was correct and just to destroy them, Again if the west wanted to destroy isis it wouldnt be too dificult as they arn't exactly in hiding are they, |
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