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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 15:43:57 GMT
Well this evening just got interesting. I'll lay down the same questions I did to her: - Where did you get your PhD in structural dynamics from? - Why did the US Government need to construct such an elaborate pretext for war when good old fashioned nationalism was enough to whip up support for it's 240 years of other wars? - Why is a government conspiracy a more convincing motive than radical Islamism fuelled by close to a century of divide and conquer by the west in the Middle East? 1) Why do I need a PhD in Structural dynamics to question how a a paper passport was one of the only bits of the plane or building to survive the impact? Why no cctv of the planes hitting the Pentagon? They could release it tomorrow and clear it up right there and then. Why is it that every time something like this happens it's at the same time and place that dummy exercises are taking place which always seeem to confuse any kind of response? This happened in 911, Boston Bomb and Sandy Hook. 2) Pearl Harbour/JFK/Cuba-Communists. The US has some sketchy history in constructing pretexts for war. Money is tight and people need to be kept in genuine fear to support the war on terror. Nationalism isn't enough and never has been. Many Americans don't care about the rest of the world until it affects them, but that's changing. Recent polls on Discovery. History Channel and one other I forget, but it may be CNN all revealed that less that half of the American population believe the 911 report. 3) I don't deny the threat and motivation of Radical Islam. Thankfully the US has absolutely no history in supporting rebels around the globe with training and arms and money....... Sorry for late reply, I was on a Gordano adventure all last night.
1. Sorry, assumption on my part. Usually I get people saying "oh the temperatures in the tower don't add up" or whatever they've read on conspiracy sites like they know all about that stuff. Usually you find those "facts" were found on other sites of the same kind and passed about.
Maybe the passport didn't get near any fire? Is there any evidence that it was in some sort of protective container or fireproofed? Is there a footage of a man in a black suit and sunglasses placing it amongst the rubble? What are you implying by saying that?
This CCTV thing interested me, so I Googled it and instantly found these CCTV frames from the Pentagon (bottom row of the montage).
Because defence forces are made up of humans and stuff takes us by surprise, simple. We're being monitored 24/7 by smartphones and online but if I decide to snap, pick up a blunt object and run into the streets right now I'm pretty sure some people would get clubbed before the all-powerful British state could stop me. Planes are fast and fairly hard to get to.
2. This confused me, are you claiming that Pearl Harbour, JFK's assassination and the Cuban Revolution were all US government conspiracies?
Wishing no offense to the nation, "half of Americans believe something stupid" adds no weight to any argument in my view.
3. Evoking another conspiracy theory does not prove another conspiracy theory.
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You should have a read on something called confirmation bias. It's where people decide what they believe first than gather evidence supporting it, as opposed to the other way round. It leads to a bunch of unrelated grey areas and anomalies being thrown together and people saying "well there must be SOMETHING going on" when there's already a perfectly adequate explanation.
Also one thing I've never understood: how can you believe 9/11 was a hoax without also claiming that 7/7, the 1995 Paris Metro bombings, Madrid 2004 were also? If the Islamist terror groups that uniformly claim responsibility for the attacks are all lying and aren't strategically capable of such things, then you move into New World Order territory and that's a whole other barrel of crazy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 16:16:58 GMT
1) Why do I need a PhD in Structural dynamics to question how a a paper passport was one of the only bits of the plane or building to survive the impact? Why no cctv of the planes hitting the Pentagon? They could release it tomorrow and clear it up right there and then. Why is it that every time something like this happens it's at the same time and place that dummy exercises are taking place which always seeem to confuse any kind of response? This happened in 911, Boston Bomb and Sandy Hook. 2) Pearl Harbour/JFK/Cuba-Communists. The US has some sketchy history in constructing pretexts for war. Money is tight and people need to be kept in genuine fear to support the war on terror. Nationalism isn't enough and never has been. Many Americans don't care about the rest of the world until it affects them, but that's changing. Recent polls on Discovery. History Channel and one other I forget, but it may be CNN all revealed that less that half of the American population believe the 911 report. 3) I don't deny the threat and motivation of Radical Islam. Thankfully the US has absolutely no history in supporting rebels around the globe with training and arms and money....... Sorry for late reply, I was on a Gordano adventure all last night.
1. Sorry, assumption on my part. Usually I get people saying "oh the temperatures in the tower don't add up" or whatever they've read on conspiracy sites like they know all about that stuff. Usually you find those "facts" were found on other sites of the same kind and passed about.
Maybe the passport didn't get near any fire? Is there any evidence that it was in some sort of protective container or fireproofed? Is there a footage of a man in a black suit and sunglasses placing it amongst the rubble? What are you implying by saying that?
This CCTV thing interested me, so I Googled it and instantly found these CCTV frames from the Pentagon (bottom row of the montage).
Because defence forces are made up of humans and stuff takes us by surprise, simple. We're being monitored 24/7 by smartphones and online but if I decide to snap, pick up a blunt object and run into the streets right now I'm pretty sure some people would get clubbed before the all-powerful British state could stop me. Planes are fast and fairly hard to get to.
2. This confused me, are you claiming that Pearl Harbour, JFK's assassination and the Cuban Revolution were all US government conspiracies?
Wishing no offense to the nation, "half of Americans believe something stupid" adds no weight to any argument in my view.
3. Evoking another conspiracy theory does not prove another conspiracy theory.
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You should have a read on something called confirmation bias. It's where people decide what they believe first than gather evidence supporting it, as opposed to the other way round. It leads to a bunch of unrelated grey areas and anomalies being thrown together and people saying "well there must be SOMETHING going on" when there's already a perfectly adequate explanation.
Also one thing I've never understood: how can you believe 9/11 was a hoax without also claiming that 7/7, the 1995 Paris Metro bombings, Madrid 2004 were also? If the Islamist terror groups that uniformly claim responsibility for the attacks are all lying and aren't strategically capable of such things, then you move into New World Order territory and that's a whole other barrel of crazy.
I used to think 911 truthers were total nut jobs! I have watched a lot of docs and debunker replies. I like to think I was pretty open minded or even sceptical about 911 being a conspiracy before I started out. I'm not linking all conspiracy stuff but imo the JFK, Pearl Harbour and Cuba stuff are all linked to 911 because imo all were a subtext to go to war. (one being a cold war) I Believe all 3 stink to high heaven and yes, I blame the CIA/shadow government in the US. I didn't think there was anyone left who still thinks the Warren report (carried out by a group of men JFK had either sacked or was about to sack) is legit. It's kind of like asking a kid to write his own school report the day he has been expelled then not asking how he got straight A's! No I haven't read it, but it's the one with the lone gunman/3 shots in 7 secs then down 4 stories on foot in 50 secs/magic bullet explanation. For what it's worth I think LHO was part of the team there to assassinate JFK but I don't believe he acted alone which is why he was clipped. By a known mobster ffs. Outside a police station. Flanked by cops. I also don't believe every wacko notion out there. Some of it is just....well, bollocks really. As I said elsewhere, there are miops and lihops. JFK and Cuba was a miop and Pearl Harbour was a lihop. I'm still not sure which one 911 was but if backed into a corner it feels more like a miop. Oh, and Osama Bin Laden didn't claim the twin towers hijackings. Odd don't you think? You might have assumed he'd be on tv the same day saying "have some of that you fuckers" |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 8, 2015 21:09:44 GMT
I've watched those sort of documentaries too, I guess we will not convince each other here.
Hugo - what in particular do you think was a conspiracy about Pearl Harbor (sic)? Also, would you extend that cassus belli to the sinking of the Lusitania?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 21:18:03 GMT
I've watched those sort of documentaries too, I guess we will not convince each other here. Hugo - what in particular do you think was a conspiracy about Pearl Harbor (sic)? Also, would you extend that cassus belli to the sinking of the Lusitania? I think they had intelligence that the attack was going to happen, allowed it but underestimated how bad it would be. A lihop. Let it happen on purpose. I'm not one to see conspiracy everywhere. Sometimes bad sh** just happens. The 7/7 bomb and Timothy McVeigh uni bomb I think were just what they were. |
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Post by aghast on Jul 8, 2015 21:45:21 GMT
Pearl Harbor is one I can actually believe might have been true. The US Govt wanted to join the war to support Britain but many of the US population wanted to stay out of it all. They needed an act of war to convince their people that the US had to be part of the war, and apparently knew through intelligence an attack was coming from Japan. Pearl Harbor was an obvious target, being the closest Pacific base, but they did nothing about it. Just sat and waited. Whether that was because they couldn't do anything about it, since they weren't at war, or because they deliberately chose to do nothing about it in order to enter the war, is unclear, but they obviously knew it might happen and let it happen. How much understanding they had about bad the attack might be or how many lives would be lost, I have no idea, but it did the job.
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Post by supergas on Jul 9, 2015 0:04:14 GMT
Pearl Harbor is one I can actually believe might have been true. The US Govt wanted to join the war to support Britain but many of the US population wanted to stay out of it all. They needed an act of war to convince their people that the US had to be part of the war, and apparently knew through intelligence an attack was coming from Japan. Pearl Harbor was an obvious target, being the closest Pacific base, but they did nothing about it. Just sat and waited. Whether that was because they couldn't do anything about it, since they weren't at war, or because they deliberately chose to do nothing about it in order to enter the war, is unclear, but they obviously knew it might happen and let it happen. How much understanding they had about bad the attack might be or how many lives would be lost, I have no idea, but it did the job. Sometimes there are other explanations too. If you have the information but it's because it's from a high level spy or top-secret piece of equipment/decoding, you can't always show your hand to the enemy. It's like the whole Enigma code-cracking thing with the UK and Germany. The information we knew could have saved hundreds of lives but if we'd shown our hand too early the Germans would have realised their codes weren't secure and would have changed them... |
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Jul 9, 2015 9:57:33 GMT
Kim Jong-Un is a character made up by the worlds media to blindfold us from the real dictators.
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Jul 9, 2015 9:58:39 GMT
On the other hand he's discovered unicorns, cured AIDS and cancer and won the Tour de France on a unicycle. Top bloke that Kim.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 9, 2015 18:54:59 GMT
Pearl Harbor is one I can actually believe might have been true. The US Govt wanted to join the war to support Britain but many of the US population wanted to stay out of it all. They needed an act of war to convince their people that the US had to be part of the war, and apparently knew through intelligence an attack was coming from Japan. Pearl Harbor was an obvious target, being the closest Pacific base, but they did nothing about it. Just sat and waited. Whether that was because they couldn't do anything about it, since they weren't at war, or because they deliberately chose to do nothing about it in order to enter the war, is unclear, but they obviously knew it might happen and let it happen. How much understanding they had about bad the attack might be or how many lives would be lost, I have no idea, but it did the job. I agree it is plausible and may even have been the case, Roosevelt needed something. What does add weight are two things, firstly the 'Germany first' strategy despite Japan being the aggressor here, and that the aircraft carriers were out at sea at the time so missed being sunk. The problem here though is that even in 1941 the true worth of carriers compared to battleships had not yet been proven, unless those in charge had great foresight.
i have been lucky enough to go to Pearl Harbor and it is a fantastic place to visit, very sombre and respectful. Just don't mention Taranto! |
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Post by supergas on Jul 9, 2015 23:39:16 GMT
On the other hand he's discovered unicorns, cured AIDS and cancer and won the Tour de France on a unicycle. Top bloke that Kim. Yeah, but since penalties don't count he's not currently the top goalscorer in their football league... |
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Jul 10, 2015 0:16:21 GMT
On the other hand he's discovered unicorns, cured AIDS and cancer and won the Tour de France on a unicycle. Top bloke that Kim. Yeah, but since penalties don't count he's not currently the top goalscorer in their football league... North Korea beat Hungary 47-0 with his greatness scoring 46, none of which were penalties... |
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Post by inee on Jul 10, 2015 9:24:14 GMT
Yeah, but since penalties don't count he's not currently the top goalscorer in their football league... North Korea beat Hungary 47-0 with his greatness scoring 46, none of which were penalties... There was one penalty,don't forget the hungarian keeper was last seen, at a restaurant talking to a weird fat guy with dodgy hair, saying wot no sex some bird called kim invited me to dine with her |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 14, 2015 19:11:30 GMT
Some people are paranoid, or am I too naive? news.sky.com/story/1518306/us-military-exercise-looms-amid-takeover-fearsBy Sky News US Team The US military is set to kick off a training exercise that has some conspiracy theorists looking over their shoulders amid fears of a federal government takeover. The exercise dubbed Jade Helm 15 will include operators from the US Army Special Operations Command and other US armed forces units. It is due to begin on Wednesday and will run for two months across seven states in the West and Southwest. The Department of Defense has called the operation a "routine training exercise", but its size and scope has sparked concern among a fringe group of anti-government citizens. Takeover rumours have included a plot by the Obama administration to construct a labyrinth of tunnels under Walmart stores in the region to be used for surprise military attacks on civilians. Conspiracy theorists claim that an orchestrated financial crisis will set the stage for martial law and a Barack Obama dictatorship once the military units are in place. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 20:36:06 GMT
Some people are paranoid, or am I too naive? news.sky.com/story/1518306/us-military-exercise-looms-amid-takeover-fearsBy Sky News US Team The US military is set to kick off a training exercise that has some conspiracy theorists looking over their shoulders amid fears of a federal government takeover. The exercise dubbed Jade Helm 15 will include operators from the US Army Special Operations Command and other US armed forces units. It is due to begin on Wednesday and will run for two months across seven states in the West and Southwest. The Department of Defense has called the operation a "routine training exercise", but its size and scope has sparked concern among a fringe group of anti-government citizens. Takeover rumours have included a plot by the Obama administration to construct a labyrinth of tunnels under Walmart stores in the region to be used for surprise military attacks on civilians. Conspiracy theorists claim that an orchestrated financial crisis will set the stage for martial law and a Barack Obama dictatorship once the military units are in place. Cobblers. The U.S. doesn't need a military coup. The military already controls the president anyway. I believe that even among conspiracy theorists most people think that Obama is one of the cleanest presidents since JFK. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 6:04:07 GMT
The funniest thing about this conspiracy is that, as far as I'm aware from friends, the US military are no fans of Obama.
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Post by inee on Jul 15, 2015 11:31:37 GMT
Eh one of the cleanest nah, he wont go public with his birth cert, a lot of americans dont like or trust him, we will see what if anything he's been up too in a few years
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 11:54:43 GMT
The funniest thing about this conspiracy is that, as far as I'm aware from friends, the US military are no fans of Obama. Which was kinda my point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 11:55:49 GMT
Eh one of the cleanest nah, he wont go public with his birth cert, a lot of americans dont like or trust him, we will see what if anything he's been up too in a few years How many other Presidents have had to publicly display their birth certificate? Genuine question. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 12:02:47 GMT
Eh one of the cleanest nah, he wont go public with his birth cert, a lot of americans dont like or trust him, we will see what if anything he's been up too in a few years How many other Presidents have had to publicly display their birth certificate? Genuine question. Genuine answer..............If it shut up all of the people talking about it, then surely it wouldn't be a problem to show it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 12:04:26 GMT
How many other Presidents have had to publicly display their birth certificate? Genuine question. Genuine answer..............If it shut up all of the people talking about it, then surely it wouldn't be a problem to show it? Yes, I agree. |
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