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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 8:57:02 GMT
Seriously we elect politicians to make the big decisions for us, to run the country for us, surely it should be their decision, and not ours?
Passing the buck to us so they don't get any sh** for what ever the decision is.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 20, 2016 11:29:19 GMT
Most governments of recent times have been elected to power despite gaining less than 35% of the vote.
Proportional representation is a fairer system but I'll settle for a referendum given that the people in power don't represent me.
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Post by jaggas on Feb 20, 2016 11:54:20 GMT
Cameron went to the EU demanding half a loaf he then begged for a crust and has come home with some crumbs.
His performance in the summits have been beyond pathetic,without a treaty the EU can ignore the tiny concessions Cameron has been given.
Leaving the EU will be the end of the EU as the whole lot will crumble without the UKs huge financial input.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 20, 2016 12:29:48 GMT
I look at all the banks and financial people and EU leaders saying we need to be in and that confirms to me that leaving is the best thing to do.
Dam parasites.
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 12:30:32 GMT
Most governments of recent times have been elected to power despite gaining less than 35% of the vote. Proportional representation is a fairer system but I'll settle for a referendum given that the people in power don't represent me. cant agree with pr, It's just a way to make unelected politicians seem important, it should always be first past the post. One man/maness one vote |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 20, 2016 12:32:46 GMT
Most governments of recent times have been elected to power despite gaining less than 35% of the vote. Proportional representation is a fairer system but I'll settle for a referendum given that the people in power don't represent me. cant agree with pr, It's just a way to make unelected politicians seem important, it should always be first past the post. One man/maness one vote Er...that's Proportional representation then. The current system allows a government to get power despite a large majority of people not actually voting for them! |
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 12:33:15 GMT
I look at all the banks and financial people and EU leaders saying we need to be in and that confirms to me that leaving is the best thing to do. f**king parasites. I think it was the germans who said without us it would not be the same etc, well of course not you and the frogs keep taking almost everything we pay in . A while back the eu wanted another billion off us, did anyone else find it strange that the eu needed a billion to carry out some aid work it had promised |
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 12:37:51 GMT
cant agree with pr, It's just a way to make unelected politicians seem important, it should always be first past the post. One man/maness one vote Er...that's Proportional representation then. The current system allows a government to get power despite a large majority of people not actually voting for them! Maybe i should have written the one with the largest amount wins. PR is bad , if people feel that bad about our voting system maybe they should use their right to vote, but hey it's too much hassle to go to a polling station and put a cross in a box ain't it. Don't know your political bent but dont forget labour got into power on the lowest turn out since the first world war and we all know why not man people voted then as they were off fighting. Still lets try PR then watch everyone who wants it when idiots like the greens get more power |
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 12:42:07 GMT
Seriously we elect politicians to make the big decisions for us, to run the country for us, surely it should be their decision, and not ours? Passing the buck to us so they don't get any sh** for what ever the decision is. I look at it in the opposite sense, the politicians are involving the people who elected them and others in making that choice, it's democracy working for a change. I'm firmly in the out camp, we will be wealthier out of it than in and i dont just mean in terms of cash |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 20, 2016 12:45:18 GMT
Er...that's Proportional representation then. The current system allows a government to get power despite a large majority of people not actually voting for them! Maybe i should have written the one with the largest amount wins. PR is bad , if people feel that bad about our voting system maybe they should use their right to vote, but hey it's too much hassle to go to a polling station and put a cross in a box ain't it. Don't know your political bent but dont forget labour got into power on the lowest turn out since the first world war and we all know why not man people voted then as they were off fighting. Still lets try PR then watch everyone who wants it when idiots like the greens get more power Yeah, I think we sort of agree. Both Labour last time and the Tories this time we not actually wanted by the majority of voters as a percentage. Crazy. I think voting should be compulsory and include a "none of the above" option. |
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 12:49:48 GMT
Cameron went to the EU demanding half a loaf he then begged for a crust and has come home with some crumbs. His performance in the summits have been beyond pathetic,without a treaty the EU can ignore the tiny concessions Cameron has been given. Leaving the EU will be the end of the EU as the whole lot will crumble without the UKs huge financial input. At least he tried, how many others have opposed the eu, for to long we have been one of the few countries to just blindly accept everything. I haven't followed it much as i end up getting too angry, i can't believe countries like poland moaning about child benefit and dole etc, i wonder what the rest of europe would say if we demanded they pay the same to everyone in the EU as we seem to do whether that's dole, child benefits ,housing,free health care or whatever else we give for free that others don't . Yup would be a whole different ball game then. It's time to say f**k off look after yourselves in europe, fill in the channel tunnel. In reality the only benefit i get from europe is cheaper genuine car parts from eastern europe, and thats only because if i order direct from korea or taiwan the import duty is astronomical |
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 12:54:12 GMT
Maybe i should have written the one with the largest amount wins. PR is bad , if people feel that bad about our voting system maybe they should use their right to vote, but hey it's too much hassle to go to a polling station and put a cross in a box ain't it. Don't know your political bent but dont forget labour got into power on the lowest turn out since the first world war and we all know why not man people voted then as they were off fighting. Still lets try PR then watch everyone who wants it when idiots like the greens get more power Yeah, I think we sort of agree. Both Labour last time and the Tories this time we not actually wanted by the majority of voters as a percentage. Crazy. I think voting should be compulsory and include a "none of the above" option. The only problem with compulsory voting is less people will vote sensibly as if your forced to do something you will rebel , and being forced to vote will take away yet another major freedom we have, i hate with a vengance those who dont vote then whine like little kids when something happens they don't like, yes by all means don't exercise your right to vote but then don't throw a fit because you don't like the result. |
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Post by aghast on Feb 20, 2016 14:38:29 GMT
Er...that's Proportional representation then. The current system allows a government to get power despite a large majority of people not actually voting for them! Maybe i should have written the one with the largest amount wins. PR is bad , if people feel that bad about our voting system maybe they should use their right to vote, but hey it's too much hassle to go to a polling station and put a cross in a box ain't it. Don't know your political bent but dont forget labour got into power on the lowest turn out since the first world war and we all know why not man people voted then as they were off fighting. Still lets try PR then watch everyone who wants it when idiots like the greens get more power Did you think it fair then Inee when UKIP got 13% of the vote and 0.15% of the seats? I don't. And I'm no UKIP fan. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 18:01:17 GMT
Cameron went to the EU demanding half a loaf he then begged for a crust and has come home with some crumbs. His performance in the summits have been beyond pathetic,without a treaty the EU can ignore the tiny concessions Cameron has been given. Leaving the EU will be the end of the EU as the whole lot will crumble without the UKs huge financial input. BBC said this morning we pay £50m per day, £350m per WEEK to be in the EU!!! I honestly don't know which way I'LL be voting, havent heard alot about the pros and cons, but just that £350m figure has me thinking one way already. |
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 18:55:23 GMT
Maybe i should have written the one with the largest amount wins. PR is bad , if people feel that bad about our voting system maybe they should use their right to vote, but hey it's too much hassle to go to a polling station and put a cross in a box ain't it. Don't know your political bent but dont forget labour got into power on the lowest turn out since the first world war and we all know why not man people voted then as they were off fighting.Still lets try PR then watch everyone who wants it when idiots like the greens get more power Of course it's fair , if they took 13% of the whole vote but in only one constituency then yes that is fair, so would you find it fair that a party say won two seats under the current system in one say in bristol and one in glasgow, but because they had a combined 25% of the national vote between em 15 others from that party were given seats, that is not what people would have voted for |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 20, 2016 19:23:07 GMT
Did you think it fair then Inee when UKIP got 13% of the vote and 0.15% of the seats?I don't. And I'm no UKIP fan. Of course it's fair , if they took 13% of the whole vote but in only one constituency then yes that is fair, so would you find it fair that a party say won two seats under the current system in one say in bristol and one in glasgow, but because they had a combined 25% of the national vote between em 15 others from that party were given seats, that is not what people would have voted for We already get what we didn't vote for. |
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Post by jaggas on Feb 20, 2016 20:59:53 GMT
Love Camerons "leap in the dark comment" I am sure people on The Titanic were told they would be safer staying onboard rather than using those lifeboats that were a "leap in the dark".
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Post by aghast on Feb 20, 2016 21:12:27 GMT
Did you think it fair then Inee when UKIP got 13% of the vote and 0.15% of the seats?I don't. And I'm no UKIP fan. Of course it's fair , if they took 13% of the whole vote but in only one constituency then yes that is fair, so would you find it fair that a party say won two seats under the current system in one say in bristol and one in glasgow, but because they had a combined 25% of the national vote between em 15 others from that party were given seats, that is not what people would have voted for The people who voted for their losing party didn't vote for the winner. If in a fictional Bristol constituency 40% vote Tory, 30% vote Labour, 20% vote Lib Dem and 10% vote UKIP then we get a Tory MP who 60% voted against. In 1974 more people voted Tory than Labour but Labour won. In 2000 more people voted for Al Gore than George Bush but George Bush won. God help the world. First past the post is a crap archaic outdated undemocratic system which denies large sections of people a voice in Parliament. |
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Post by inee on Feb 20, 2016 21:31:37 GMT
first past the post is the fairest system, look at it as it is, for example say there were 50 seats and one party won 40 of them another part won 5 and another won the other five, it would be totally unfair to say oh but the winning party can only take 30 seats the other party's can only have 3 of their seats and the people with the least votes in other areas can have the remaining 6 seats just because overall they had slightly more votes cast than the other 3 parties.
In your fictional example it doesnt matter a jot how many votes anyone else had the person with the most won.
we can't compare our system with the yanks one, but on reflection i seem to recal lots of shouts of corruption in that vote, but bush was a safer bet than gore
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Post by aghast on Feb 20, 2016 22:19:59 GMT
You can directly compare our system to the American one since they based their system on ours.
My example about was meant to demonstrate how a minority of voters get a majority government. Extrapolate that across the UK and you have it.
Bush v Gore?
How's the Middle East situation looking these days?
ISIS - bastard love child of US intervention in the Middle East.
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