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Post by supergas on Feb 21, 2016 1:52:22 GMT
Yeah, I think we sort of agree. Both Labour last time and the Tories this time we not actually wanted by the majority of voters as a percentage. Crazy. I think voting should be compulsory and include a "none of the above" option. I know what your point is but there are two issues with it. Firstly, 'rainbow coalitions' never work. Nothing ever gets done and that's why First Past The Post is "the worst system apart from all the others that have been tried..." Secondly (and in an earlier post) I was intrigued you picked 35% of the voters as your 'threshold'. Mainly because in 2015 it was 36.9%, 2010 it was 36.1% for just the Tories, 2005 35.2%, 2001 40.7%, 1997 43.2%, 1992 (surprisingly) 41.9%...and we could go on...only person to win an election with a smaller share of the vote than the largest party (since WW2) was Churchill in 1951... 35% is also 4 in ten of people who can be bothered to vote. It's also 5 in 10 of the people with 'mainstream' agendas or 6 in 10 of people who are voting for anyone in any given seat who can actually win that seat. This maths is based on analysis of the FPTP system but puts the 35% figure into perspective a bit.... Also, if you want to talk majorities, let's look at the SNP....left wing, popular vote 1,454,436, seats 56. Lib Dems, centre-left, popular vote 2,415,862 , seats 8. I would hate compulsory voting because it means people who don't care have to vote. Team that up with PR and it would be chaos. I can't claim the current system is perfect, just be careful what you wish for.... |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 21, 2016 7:01:50 GMT
The 35% was just a rough guess I picked out of my head from memory!
Good reply though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 10:56:32 GMT
Hello from Europe.
First off, Germany always has a coalition government. The CDU is always the largest party. Anyone joining their coalition are made well aware that they are junior partners, unlike the nonsense with the Lib/Dems and the Tories.
Next, if you watch the German news, the pending UK Referendum was the lead story all over yesterday. The Germs are announcing that they gave in to the UK demands and now fully expect the UK to stay in the EU. Even She Who Casts No Shadow said the Uk must surely vote to stay in now the EU has given in to their demands. The message is that the Eu has given everything to the UK, and if the Island Monkeys vote to leave, Project EU will continue.
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Post by inee on Feb 21, 2016 14:09:56 GMT
You can directly compare our system to the American one since they based their system on ours. My example about was meant to demonstrate how a minority of voters get a majority government. Extrapolate that across the UK and you have it. Bush v Gore? How's the Middle East situation looking these days? ISIS - bastard love child of US intervention in the Middle East. there have been others since bush who could have pulled out of the middle east but they dint , obama funded isis too . Blair has done more harm in the middle east than anyone . Gore sneaky bloke whose wife pulls his strings, did you know tipper gore was a leading light in the parental advisory stickers on music and a lot more besides. This is one we will never agree on  |
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Post by jaggas on Feb 21, 2016 17:08:38 GMT
Hello from Europe. First off, Germany always has a coalition government. The CDU is always the largest party. Anyone joining their coalition are made well aware that they are junior partners, unlike the nonsense with the Lib/Dems and the Tories. Next, if you watch the German news, the pending UK Referendum was the lead story all over yesterday. The Germs are announcing that they gave in to the UK demands and now fully expect the UK to stay in the EU. Even She Who Casts No Shadow said the Uk must surely vote to stay in now the EU has given in to their demands. The message is that the Eu has given everything to the UK, and if the Island Monkeys vote to leave, Project EU will continue. Cheers for that nobby did she say anything about the impending Italian financial disaster soon that will dwarf Greeces problems? I wonder how project EU will continue minus £55m daily of Britains money.I personally think the vote will be rigged in the same way the vote in Thanet was rigged to keep Nigel Farage out of parliament. |
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Post by Centenary Gas on Feb 21, 2016 17:24:41 GMT
Cameron's negotiations are a joke, just like the EU itself. Same old scare tactics of 'leaving is taking a leap into the dark/unknown' coming out from Cameron, yet staying with a sinking ship that has a rediculous amount of control over our laws is a bigger risk.
Voting to leave and it's not even close.
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 21, 2016 22:56:29 GMT
Cameron went to the EU demanding half a loaf he then begged for a crust and has come home with some crumbs. His performance in the summits have been beyond pathetic,without a treaty the EU can ignore the tiny concessions Cameron has been given. Leaving the EU will be the end of the EU as the whole lot will crumble without the UKs huge financial input. BBC said this morning we pay £50m per day, £350m per WEEK to be in the EU!!! I honestly don't know which way I'LL be voting, havent heard alot about the pros and cons, but just that £350m figure has me thinking one way already. If you still don't know how you are going to vote then I wish you well. In the coming months you will be bombarded with views, opinions and statistics which would make any sane man go mad. It is largely hyperbole and intended to stir emotions one way or the other. Things will become visceral not cerebral. If you are genuinely open minded then you will probably change your view quite often, including on the day itself. Personally I would suggest ignoring the official campaign material as it will be selective information and best/worst case. Maybe take on board the general point and allow yourself time to think over why they are saying it. You will probably end up having to decide between heart and head so allow your gut to make the final choice as you stand in the voting booth. The print media have their own agenda but broadcast media have to have balance (in how they report news, not what they report). You may find these useful as a starting point. news.sky.com/story/1643603/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-the-euwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32793642Finally, don't take things at face value, there is usually a reason why something is being said the way it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 12:06:33 GMT
BBC said this morning we pay £50m per day, £350m per WEEK to be in the EU!!! I honestly don't know which way I'LL be voting, havent heard alot about the pros and cons, but just that £350m figure has me thinking one way already. If you still don't know how you are going to vote then I wish you well. In the coming months you will be bombarded with views, opinions and statistics which would make any sane man go mad. It is largely hyperbole and intended to stir emotions one way or the other. Things will become visceral not cerebral. If you are genuinely open minded then you will probably change your view quite often, including on the day itself. Personally I would suggest ignoring the official campaign material as it will be selective information and best/worst case. Maybe take on board the general point and allow yourself time to think over why they are saying it. You will probably end up having to decide between heart and head so allow your gut to make the final choice as you stand in the voting booth. The print media have their own agenda but broadcast media have to have balance (in how they report news, not what they report). You may find these useful as a starting point. news.sky.com/story/1643603/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-the-euwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32793642Finally, don't take things at face value, there is usually a reason why something is being said the way it is. I'd just like someone to tell me the pro's & con's of being in, and the pro's & con's of being out. Someone who isn't trying to sway me one way or the other. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 22, 2016 12:12:00 GMT
If you still don't know how you are going to vote then I wish you well. In the coming months you will be bombarded with views, opinions and statistics which would make any sane man go mad. It is largely hyperbole and intended to stir emotions one way or the other. Things will become visceral not cerebral. If you are genuinely open minded then you will probably change your view quite often, including on the day itself. Personally I would suggest ignoring the official campaign material as it will be selective information and best/worst case. Maybe take on board the general point and allow yourself time to think over why they are saying it. You will probably end up having to decide between heart and head so allow your gut to make the final choice as you stand in the voting booth. The print media have their own agenda but broadcast media have to have balance (in how they report news, not what they report). You may find these useful as a starting point. news.sky.com/story/1643603/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-the-euwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32793642Finally, don't take things at face value, there is usually a reason why something is being said the way it is. I'd just like someone to tell me the pro's & con's of being in, and the pro's & con's of being out. Someone who isn't trying to sway me one way or the other. Unfortunately that is the problem. Nobody can be certain of what will happen either way, it's down to who you trust more (or should that be distrust least?). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 12:17:37 GMT
I'd just like someone to tell me the pro's & con's of being in, and the pro's & con's of being out. Someone who isn't trying to sway me one way or the other. Unfortunately that is the problem. Nobody can be certain of what will happen either way, it's down to who you trust more (or should that be distrust least?). I see Borris has jumped on the out campaign, first he wanted to stay, now he wants to leave. Borris or David....? Tough choice! |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 22, 2016 12:38:25 GMT
Boris has his reasons and I doubt they are entirely because he wants to leave.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 12:40:53 GMT
Boris has his reasons and I doubt they are entirely because he wants to leave. Imagine him & Trump as Prime minister & President...... uurrgghhhhh Doesn't bare thinking about... |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 22, 2016 12:42:50 GMT
If you still don't know how you are going to vote then I wish you well. In the coming months you will be bombarded with views, opinions and statistics which would make any sane man go mad. It is largely hyperbole and intended to stir emotions one way or the other. Things will become visceral not cerebral. If you are genuinely open minded then you will probably change your view quite often, including on the day itself. Personally I would suggest ignoring the official campaign material as it will be selective information and best/worst case. Maybe take on board the general point and allow yourself time to think over why they are saying it. You will probably end up having to decide between heart and head so allow your gut to make the final choice as you stand in the voting booth. The print media have their own agenda but broadcast media have to have balance (in how they report news, not what they report). You may find these useful as a starting point. news.sky.com/story/1643603/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-the-euwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32793642Finally, don't take things at face value, there is usually a reason why something is being said the way it is. I'd just like someone to tell me the pro's & con's of being in, and the pro's & con's of being out. Someone who isn't trying to sway me one way or the other. Me too! I'm swaying towards OUT at the moment having previously been clear in my mind that we need to be in. Tomorrow? Who can say? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 12:48:57 GMT
I'd just like someone to tell me the pro's & con's of being in, and the pro's & con's of being out. Someone who isn't trying to sway me one way or the other. Me too! I'm swaying towards OUT at the moment having previously been clear in my mind that we need to be in. Tomorrow? Who can say? The only reason why I'm swaying towards out is because of that £350M p/w we pay just to be in it. But, what if by paying that £350m we make say £450m in trade in the same time? But some people are saying our trade with the EU won't change if we do leave... I get a headache just thinking about it. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 22, 2016 12:58:41 GMT
Boris has his reasons and I doubt they are entirely because he wants to leave. Imagine him & Trump as Prime minister & President...... uurrgghhhhh Doesn't bare thinking about... The General Election in 2020 could be a choice between Boris and Jeremy. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 22, 2016 13:02:08 GMT
Me too! I'm swaying towards OUT at the moment having previously been clear in my mind that we need to be in. Tomorrow? Who can say? The only reason why I'm swaying towards out is because of that £350M p/w we pay just to be in it. But, what if by paying that £350m we make say £450m in trade in the same time? But some people are saying our trade with the EU won't change if we do leave... I get a headache just thinking about it. What was your thought process during the Scottish Independence referendum? May have some parallels. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 13:10:10 GMT
Trade is trade. It will still continue.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 13:11:54 GMT
The only reason why I'm swaying towards out is because of that £350M p/w we pay just to be in it. But, what if by paying that £350m we make say £450m in trade in the same time? But some people are saying our trade with the EU won't change if we do leave... I get a headache just thinking about it. What was your thought process during the Scottish Independence referendum? May have some parallels. To tell you the truth, as it didn't affect me(as in not voting) I didn't hardly pay any attention to all the campaigning. Just looked out for the result. As this directly affects me as in having a vote, I'll watch the news & question time etc and try to make heads or tail of it. If I can't I'll be taking a coin with me... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 13:16:22 GMT
Are the 'Polls' being 'economic with the truth' yet again?
Before the last general election, all the polls pointed to a close race, with just a slight possibility of another Tory/Lib Dem coalition. However, they were all wrong...way wrong. It wasn't even close.
Now, with the referendum, the Polls are indicating that it's neck & neck, with the "IN" numbers slightly in the lead. However, if I read any article about the EU, no matter what the source (yes, even the Guardian) then I like to view the comments that usually follow below the article, and overwhelmingly, the comments are to vote "OUT". What is the better barometer, the discredited polls, or the views of people who actually make the effort to post online? Or, are any of them a barometer than can be used to judge the mood?
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 22, 2016 13:24:18 GMT
Trade is trade. It will still continue. Agreed. Next question, will it be better, worse or about the same and can the person telling you the answer guarantee that? |
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