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Post by Strange Gas on Mar 6, 2016 14:58:44 GMT
He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't! That's my view too. So let's move on. I do think a better debate is around the future of the share scheme. I can't believe people are still being told it's a way to influence the running of the club. My personal view is that was always a big over promise and that has become more apparent over time. I hope it is an issue the new board are looking at, but surely we should be closing it to new contributions for now. |
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Post by dinsdale on Mar 6, 2016 15:21:52 GMT
Brian mentioned wanting to re-launch the share scheme today which was always something I was very keen on in the past. If this was ever to happen I would want assurances that the share % would not just be watered down without a democratic vote by all members of the scheme. I'm not sure there is much need for one now though due to the current financial status however and perhaps the better way forward would be a re-launch of the supporters club as more of an independent fan focused body.
An interesting point that Brian made about the equity directors meeting separately from the fans directors that was made by someone elsewhere is that surely a director appointed by a scheme that paid in well over £1m into the club would count as an equity director ? (its more then all the directors bar Dunford and Higgs put in)
Anyway, the share scheme was a great idea and scheme and it was sad how it ended up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 16:36:53 GMT
BSS has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. It's essential for the club that we all move on. What's happened has happened (a lot of it not very pretty as we know) but we have just entered a new and hopefully positive and exciting era for the club. I've sat on a number of PLC boards and know how difficult it can be at times to be fully open with shareholders when delicate confidential matters are being discussed but not yet concluded. Trouble is, lip service is paid to corporate governance if the facts are not laid out to all the Directors. It's not the way to run a business.
As we enter this new era, we must all hope that the new board is as transparent with shareholders (and fans via BSS and KM) as it possibly can be. I suspect the new team is getting to grips with the minutiae of the stadium deal, and hope (indeed expect) that we will be told what's happening with UWE when they are in a position to make any announcements.
The old regime is just that - whether or not we think they did a good, bad or indifferent job, they are the past.The new owners and management team must work with speed not haste, with clarity not obfuscation, and - importantly - treat shareholders and fans with the respect they deserve. Good communication is essential. Key to this is the role of the Chairman, requiring many varied skills to be effective. I haven't met Steve Hamer yet, but initial impressions are positive. Overall I feel the club is now in much better hands and I'm confident the relationship with the fans will be much improved. BSS sitting on and participating in an arguably more effective board can play an important role in this improved communication.
As fans it's what we all should expect and deserve, as this club is a very special part of all of us. Treating fans with contempt just fuels the fire (as we saw yesterday at Notts when the stewards disgracefully tried to confiscate the Fullerton Out banner).
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Post by dinsdale on Mar 6, 2016 16:39:33 GMT
BSS has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. It's essential for the club that we all move on. What's happened has happened (a lot of it not very pretty as we know) but we have just entered a new and hopefully positive and exciting era for the club. I've sat on a number of PLC boards and know how difficult it can be at times to be fully open with shareholders when delicate confidential matters are being discussed but not yet concluded. Trouble is, lip service is paid to corporate governance if the facts are not laid out to all the Directors. It's not the way to run a business. As we enter this new era, we must all hope that the new board is as transparent with shareholders (and fans via BSS and KM) as it possibly can be. I suspect the new team is getting to grips with the minutiae of the stadium deal, and hope (indeed expect) that we will be told what's happening with UWE when they are in a position to make any announcements. The old regime is just that - whether or not we think they did a good, bad or indifferent job, they are the past.The new owners and management team must work with speed not haste, with clarity not obfuscation, and - importantly - treat shareholders and fans with the respect they deserve. Good communication is essential. Key to this is the role of the Chairman, requiring many varied skills to be effective. I haven't met Steve Hamer yet, but initial impressions are positive. Overall I feel the club is now in much better hands and I'm confident the relationship with the fans will be much improved. BSS sitting on and participating in an arguably more effective board can play an important role in this improved communication. As fans it's what we all should expect and deserve, as this club is a very special part of all of us. Treating fans with contempt just fuels the fire (as we saw yesterday at Notts when the stewards disgracefully tried to confiscate the Fullerton Out banner). Agreed, only responded to comments by him however about the past regime. |
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 6, 2016 16:42:27 GMT
Brian mentioned wanting to re-launch the share scheme today which was always something I was very keen on in the past. If this was ever to happen I would want assurances that the share % would not just be watered down without a democratic vote by all members of the scheme. I'm not sure there is much need for one now though due to the current financial status however and perhaps the better way forward would be a re-launch of the supporters club as more of an independent fan focused body. An interesting point that Brian made about the equity directors meeting separately from the fans directors that was made by someone elsewhere is that surely a director appointed by a scheme that paid in well over £1m into the club would count as an equity director ? (its more then all the directors bar Dunford and Higgs put in) Anyway, the share scheme was a great idea and scheme and it was sad how it ended up. The Share scheme was never buying equity shares though was it? At least I don't recall seeing it mentioned on Watola's AGM report the other week. The directors had to be non executive for them to be exempt from the equity meetings. That's is guesswork and not fact btw. R |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 6, 2016 16:43:21 GMT
BSS has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. It's essential for the club that we all move on. What's happened has happened (a lot of it not very pretty as we know) but we have just entered a new and hopefully positive and exciting era for the club. I've sat on a number of PLC boards and know how difficult it can be at times to be fully open with shareholders when delicate confidential matters are being discussed but not yet concluded. Trouble is, lip service is paid to corporate governance if the facts are not laid out to all the Directors. It's not the way to run a business. As we enter this new era, we must all hope that the new board is as transparent with shareholders (and fans via BSS and KM) as it possibly can be. I suspect the new team is getting to grips with the minutiae of the stadium deal, and hope (indeed expect) that we will be told what's happening with UWE when they are in a position to make any announcements. The old regime is just that - whether or not we think they did a good, bad or indifferent job, they are the past.The new owners and management team must work with speed not haste, with clarity not obfuscation, and - importantly - treat shareholders and fans with the respect they deserve. Good communication is essential. Key to this is the role of the Chairman, requiring many varied skills to be effective. I haven't met Steve Hamer yet, but initial impressions are positive. Overall I feel the club is now in much better hands and I'm confident the relationship with the fans will be much improved. BSS sitting on and participating in an arguably more effective board can play an important role in this improved communication. As fans it's what we all should expect and deserve, as this club is a very special part of all of us. Treating fans with contempt just fuels the fire (as we saw yesterday at Notts when the stewards disgracefully tried to confiscate the Fullerton Out banner). I've met WAQ and Steve Harmer and have to say I was very impressed with them both. Of the 2 Harmer seemed the shrewd football business man and WAQ just seemed like a really sharp fan. They were both very decent people and both very enthusiastic and approachable. I was left feeling much less sceptical having spoken to them both albeit for just a short amount of time. |
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Post by dinsdale on Mar 6, 2016 16:45:07 GMT
BSS has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. It's essential for the club that we all move on. What's happened has happened (a lot of it not very pretty as we know) but we have just entered a new and hopefully positive and exciting era for the club. I've sat on a number of PLC boards and know how difficult it can be at times to be fully open with shareholders when delicate confidential matters are being discussed but not yet concluded. Trouble is, lip service is paid to corporate governance if the facts are not laid out to all the Directors. It's not the way to run a business. As we enter this new era, we must all hope that the new board is as transparent with shareholders (and fans via BSS and KM) as it possibly can be. I suspect the new team is getting to grips with the minutiae of the stadium deal, and hope (indeed expect) that we will be told what's happening with UWE when they are in a position to make any announcements. The old regime is just that - whether or not we think they did a good, bad or indifferent job, they are the past.The new owners and management team must work with speed not haste, with clarity not obfuscation, and - importantly - treat shareholders and fans with the respect they deserve. Good communication is essential. Key to this is the role of the Chairman, requiring many varied skills to be effective. I haven't met Steve Hamer yet, but initial impressions are positive. Overall I feel the club is now in much better hands and I'm confident the relationship with the fans will be much improved. BSS sitting on and participating in an arguably more effective board can play an important role in this improved communication. As fans it's what we all should expect and deserve, as this club is a very special part of all of us. Treating fans with contempt just fuels the fire (as we saw yesterday at Notts when the stewards disgracefully tried to confiscate the Fullerton Out banner). I've met WAQ and Steve Harmer and have to say I was very impressed with them both. Of the 2 Harmer seemed the shrewd football business man and WAQ just seemed like a really sharp fan. They were both very decent people and both very enthusiastic and approachable. I was left feeling much less sceptical having spoken to them both albeit for just a short amount of time. Good to hear Hugo, having lived in Swansea during his reign there I was a bit worried but everything I have seen post Boycie has been very very encouraging and positive. Going to give them lots of time to bed in and move us forwards. |
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 6, 2016 16:47:31 GMT
That's not what I said. I said I know Ed very well, I never said how I knew him. I also know 2 other directors very well. But do we go round each other's houses for dinner etc? No. I only mentioned that I knew him well as severncider was trying to insinuate some underhanded deal had been done with him using the club for gain. With no evidence to base that on I might add. That said, I often got the odd tip bit about what was going on, which incidentally never got posted on this forum, it was kept to myself and I only found out about the takeover 2 weeks before it happened and it wasn't from any of the directors!! I had read all the rumours being posted on here and asked 1 of them directly and all I got was "I wish there was someone to take us on". Which I took as, there is no one. Thanks for replying BSS. I have no axe to grind with you, you have done a remarkable job in perhaps trying circumstances through the years. I applaude you for giving your time up on our behalf. I was just stating my opinion as to what you had written based on how I read it. If you like, we can meet at the Cambridge game on good Friday, I'll be in the dribuild that day as my business has some hospitality and I would like to buy you a pint and have a chat. I can't make Tuesday as I'm away on business and Saturday I already have plans to meet with some friends at the game (and before someone says it, yes I do have one...  ) That's if you are around that day? Totally false.
I just put the facts that we were being asked to vote on BRFC paying £650k on a property which appears to be worth £395k.
I would like to know the reason for that, before voting on the Resolution. Surely, no-one is suggesting that this question should not be asked
Oh come on Severn at least be honest, you were hoping to turn over some stones with hope of proving that the previous board was it was running it like some kind of old Masonic club. Otherwise why would it even bother you? It's part of the old regime after all. If I had an agenda, I would state it and be cock a hoop I had some lever or evidence to go after. |
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Post by gasincider on Mar 6, 2016 20:35:58 GMT
Old regime or not, it's still relevant. Unless of course EW changes his mind about the option.
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Post by mehewmagic on Mar 7, 2016 1:11:09 GMT
BSS has done a good job in very difficult circumstances. It's essential for the club that we all move on. What's happened has happened (a lot of it not very pretty as we know) but we have just entered a new and hopefully positive and exciting era for the club. I've sat on a number of PLC boards and know how difficult it can be at times to be fully open with shareholders when delicate confidential matters are being discussed but not yet concluded. Trouble is, lip service is paid to corporate governance if the facts are not laid out to all the Directors. It's not the way to run a business. As we enter this new era, we must all hope that the new board is as transparent with shareholders (and fans via BSS and KM) as it possibly can be. I suspect the new team is getting to grips with the minutiae of the stadium deal, and hope (indeed expect) that we will be told what's happening with UWE when they are in a position to make any announcements. The old regime is just that - whether or not we think they did a good, bad or indifferent job, they are the past.The new owners and management team must work with speed not haste, with clarity not obfuscation, and - importantly - treat shareholders and fans with the respect they deserve. Good communication is essential. Key to this is the role of the Chairman, requiring many varied skills to be effective. I haven't met Steve Hamer yet, but initial impressions are positive. Overall I feel the club is now in much better hands and I'm confident the relationship with the fans will be much improved. BSS sitting on and participating in an arguably more effective board can play an important role in this improved communication. As fans it's what we all should expect and deserve, as this club is a very special part of all of us. Treating fans with contempt just fuels the fire (as we saw yesterday at Notts when the stewards disgracefully tried to confiscate the Fullerton Out banner). exc post including the mention of the notts cunty banner & managing to writeuse my favourite word - obfuscation. |
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Post by mehewmagic on Mar 7, 2016 14:02:51 GMT
surely we can all agree that the fan's director situation is pretty similar to situations that happen all over the world, every day, in politics, on boards, in businesses, voluntary organisations etc.
namely, do you fight from the inside or the outside?
surely there is no absolute right or wrong answer.
Having been in a similar situation with the National Trust (the largest environmental / historical membership organisation in Europe) I can confirm that trying to affect change from the inside is bloody hard work and can almost drive you mad (hopefully BSS hasn't been driven mad yet). On other topics I've been on the outside, campaigning. There is no easy answer.
It's good to see BSS back, giving us some information / opinion.
Do I think the past was perfect? No, not at all. I am clearly on record as being a big critic of the 'representation' on the Board.
Do I think people had easy choices to make? No.
BTW - Not surprised for 1 second that there were shadow Board meetings for 'equity' directors. Quelle surprise. Businessmen who are called upon to give loans / cash injections don't often like sharing their information & decision making with (what they may see as) tinpot 'supporters club' reps. This is surely an issue for all football Boards with fans reps on them. And the rich get rich, the poor get poorer. As if that hasn't been happening since eternity.
I'm bloody glad we now have a clear 'owner' and not a disparate bunch of local businessmen. The issue now is whether the new Board can include a range of experience and opinions, have some independence of mind, and come up with some good decisions when 92.6% of the shares are owned by one source.
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Post by markczgas on Mar 7, 2016 15:20:51 GMT
The takeover has been going on since septemer the issues effecting BRFC such as relegtaion and then further relegation out the league, the failure as promised to publish a club review into the reasons for it. Further back the financial losses, the share re-issue that devalued the share scheme share % and constant managerial recuitment failures were also met with silence. I would not have expected Brian and Ken to speak out about a takeover or confidential stadium issues but to never speak out on these failures but to suddenly start slagging off the old board as soon as they stand down leaves a sour taste. Thats my point. There is nothing brave or to be thankfull of in todays post in my opinion. Ps thanks for the well thought out and constructive replies, take them all on board and appreciate we hae different views. Really glad to read them rather then just getting abuse I have to agree and a certain Mr. Masters should quite frankly have resigned then or even now from his position after his disgraceful attitude and behaviour to supporters at the Q & A back in July 2014. I bumped into him a month ago and all he had to say to me was "oh I thought you had stopped going to games Mark ?" Nice one Ken !!!! |
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Post by markczgas on Mar 7, 2016 15:25:00 GMT
I care because i paid loads into the share scheme for the supporters to have representation at board level. We signed a few players with that money too Agogo springs to mind. KM and BSS worked for us not Higgs We all care. It's not exclusive to you. And whether you like it or not, BSS and Ken are directors. That means they are part of the collective, and if they are not given the option to talk publically on vital issues they cannot do so. To do otherwise would be a breach of confidentiality. And if you think our esteemed 'only in the relegation zone for 20 mins' director minuted the board meetings anywhere near accurately, you must live in a parallel universe. In fact, the minutes have never as far as I am aware, ever seen the light of day. Kim Stuckey, nice guy as he is didn't get anywhere by resigning, and nor would our two present incumbents. I'd rather they were in there pitching than just walking away. . Of course, you always had the option to stand Dinsdale, or were you scared of the dictatorship? As for gashead1981, he seems to know a lot about what went on at board level. Has Toni been talking to some of our s/c executive again? This is so unhelpful - but doesn't surprise me about you. remember I'm the one who doesn't go to games eh ?? |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 7, 2016 15:59:32 GMT
We all care. It's not exclusive to you. And whether you like it or not, BSS and Ken are directors. That means they are part of the collective, and if they are not given the option to talk publically on vital issues they cannot do so. To do otherwise would be a breach of confidentiality. And if you think our esteemed 'only in the relegation zone for 20 mins' director minuted the board meetings anywhere near accurately, you must live in a parallel universe. In fact, the minutes have never as far as I am aware, ever seen the light of day. Kim Stuckey, nice guy as he is didn't get anywhere by resigning, and nor would our two present incumbents. I'd rather they were in there pitching than just walking away. . Of course, you always had the option to stand Dinsdale, or were you scared of the dictatorship? As for gashead1981, he seems to know a lot about what went on at board level. Has Toni been talking to some of our s/c executive again? This is so unhelpful - but doesn't surprise me about you. remember I'm the one who doesn't go to games eh ?? I've seen you at at least 2 games with your family! |
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 7, 2016 16:41:16 GMT
We all care. It's not exclusive to you. And whether you like it or not, BSS and Ken are directors. That means they are part of the collective, and if they are not given the option to talk publically on vital issues they cannot do so. To do otherwise would be a breach of confidentiality. And if you think our esteemed 'only in the relegation zone for 20 mins' director minuted the board meetings anywhere near accurately, you must live in a parallel universe. In fact, the minutes have never as far as I am aware, ever seen the light of day. Kim Stuckey, nice guy as he is didn't get anywhere by resigning, and nor would our two present incumbents. I'd rather they were in there pitching than just walking away. . Of course, you always had the option to stand Dinsdale, or were you scared of the dictatorship? As for gashead1981, he seems to know a lot about what went on at board level. Has Toni been talking to some of our s/c executive again? This is so unhelpful - but doesn't surprise me about you. remember I'm the one who doesn't go to games eh ?? It's true though you can hardly be critical about somebody who's prepared to be FD unless you are prepared to stand yourself |
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Post by justin blue on Mar 7, 2016 16:55:25 GMT
TBH I don't think any of this is helpful. The past is the past all of the if's, why's and maybe's don't mean much now. Time to move on embrace the future.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 7, 2016 17:21:47 GMT
This is so unhelpful - but doesn't surprise me about you. remember I'm the one who doesn't go to games eh ?? It's true though you can hardly be critical about somebody who's prepared to be FD unless you are prepared to stand yourself I've never been a footballer. Should I stop giving players ratings? |
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Post by Jon the Stripe on Mar 7, 2016 17:31:38 GMT
Time to move on, Fresh start and all that...Agreed, but not without learning from huge mistakes made in the past. The feeling i hold is that these mistakes should never be allowed to fester again and if we have to stand up and shout a bit louder next time we should do.
I hope lessons have been learnt as we move into what appears a brighter future and look forward to more transparency and better communication from our club as a whole.
Thanks for the post Brian and please help to put a final end to the "Them and Us" environment that has divided our club.
UTG
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 7, 2016 17:35:46 GMT
This is so unhelpful - but doesn't surprise me about you. remember I'm the one who doesn't go to games eh ?? It's true though you can hardly be critical about somebody who's prepared to be FD unless you are prepared to stand yourself Quite. And take the flack which may come with that. You can only act and advise on how you see fit and that maybe completely different to how someone else may do it. Doesn't mean its wrong. But what grates me is the people that do it with little or no experience of board level operation and do not fully appreciate the pressures and responsibility that go along with that. Someone once said to me that it is very easy to make decisions and run someone else's business from a distance, its very different when its your money or directly responsible. I find a lot of that here. |
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Post by lulworthgas on Mar 7, 2016 17:42:36 GMT
This is so unhelpful - but doesn't surprise me about you. remember I'm the one who doesn't go to games eh ?? It's true though you can hardly be critical about somebody who's prepared to be FD unless you are prepared to stand yourself Great advice. I take everything back mr Cameron. You're doing a Stirling job running the country!! |
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) That's if you are around that day?
