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Post by aghast on Jun 30, 2016 14:22:28 GMT
I don't know whether to be speechless at the treachery of Gove, or to admire his courage in coming out against Johnson, who he realised was never really a Brexiter at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 14:31:32 GMT
I don't know whether to be speechless at the treachery of Gove, or to admire his courage in coming out against Johnson, who he realised was never really a Brexiter at all. I wouldn't call it treachery, after all, Gove did put his own political career on the line as well. I think Johnson was heading towards a 'Norway Model' or a 'Swiss Model' as his view of the future of the UK's relationship with the EU. I reckon Gove wants a 'UK Model'. The UK economy is far greater than those other two. We don't need to copy anyone. Another point for discussion........The Brexit negotiations are reckoned to last two years (maybe). With all the upheaval going on in the EU, what are the chances that the EU as we know it now, will be a totally different beast in two years time? If Le Pen gets in next year in France, will they have a referendum? If France leaves then that really will be the end of the EU. |
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Post by peterparker on Jun 30, 2016 16:16:09 GMT
Gove has given his spiel now. Basically saying he has stabbed Boris in the back
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Post by aghast on Jun 30, 2016 21:01:49 GMT
Labour will regroup under a new centre-left Leader, as they have done in the past. Gove will lead the Tories into a right-wing isolated position with a leader particularly unattractive to the electorate, as they have done in the past.
Cold, hard facts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 21:50:35 GMT
"Labour will regroup under a new centre-left Leader" - Pray tell how this will happen with Momentum/Militant in control?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 30, 2016 22:22:21 GMT
Is it safe to come back now? :-)
To me this reads so much like House of Cards, the original TV series with Ian Richardson.
From what I have read by various political correspondents, Gove was a good friend of David Cameron but when he was demoted from the Education brief he then felt no loyalty when it came to the referendum. He then courted Boris to help swing the vote in his favour. After which Boris started to reign in some of the reasons for leaving such as free movement and single market. I suspect Gove may have felt this was watering down the whole raison d'être so wanted to step in.
Michael Gove really does remind me of Francis Urquart, even down to a journalist friend (his wife in this case) to leak stories such as that email.
Whilst I disagree with Andrea Leadsom's position on the EU, I did think she came across very well and would do a good job. That said, I would be happier with either her or May provided it isn't Gove, Fox or Crabbe.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 30, 2016 22:30:56 GMT
"Labour will regroup under a new centre-left Leader" - Pray tell how this will happen with Momentum/Militant in control? Genuinely no idea. Corbyn seems to stuck like a limpet, with some reports suggesting that he is being persuaded to stay by his supporters. It does seem a gamble to challenge him as it appears that should it go to a ballot he would still get a majority, and where would that leave the PLP? Could it lead to a split even worse than when the "gang of four" set up the SDP? interesting times in the Westminster bubble, just when we need strong leadership. At least Nicola has a plan, except that didn't last long upon meeting the Spanish PM. |
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Post by aghast on Jul 5, 2016 21:11:21 GMT
Well it's looking quite clear that Gove, with only 48 MPs voting for him, will not be the new PM.
Boris has gone, Nigel has gone, Gove is going. Having won the war, they've lost the battle. To paraphrase.
So the negotiations are going to be lead by a Remainer.
As I said a while back, I don't think we're actually going to leave, regardless of the result. And this is not said from a partisan point of view - just pragmatic.
I think a deal will be stitched up where we become like Switzerland but much more tied in. Single market, free movement, contributing to the EU. A member in all but name.
A good old British compromise which will please no-one but will avoid all out war. We always do things this way.
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Post by inee on Jul 6, 2016 10:51:04 GMT
You did say that and unfortunately it is looking that way, yet again our oh so glorious politicians will bend over and yield like a public schoolboy on his second day(Oh hang on a mo ) .
Personally the way it's going i fully expect there to be hardly any change after the exit, with us buying our way back in soon after, If Gove did win i trust a genital wart making love to a syphilitic tiger clunge, more than that wazzock, i feel gove would take us straight back in.
The other issue is atm there is no political party in the uk that has even a shred of credibility about em.
Labour should be renamed the bollox to everyone bar one and bollix to him to party.
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Post by baggins on Jul 6, 2016 11:05:57 GMT
It's all a load of crap.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 7, 2016 23:27:48 GMT
Kipling wrote this some time ago, seems little changes;
Epitaphs of war - a dead statesman
I could not dig: I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 7, 2016 23:39:05 GMT
Well it's looking quite clear that Gove, with only 48 MPs voting for him, will not be the new PM. Boris has gone, Nigel has gone, Gove is going. Having won the war, they've lost the battle. To paraphrase. So the negotiations are going to be lead by a Remainer. As I said a while back, I don't think we're actually going to leave, regardless of the result. And this is not said from a partisan point of view - just pragmatic. I think a deal will be stitched up where we become like Switzerland but much more tied in. Single market, free movement, contributing to the EU. A member in all but name. A good old British compromise which will please no-one but will avoid all out war. We always do things this way. Totally agree with this, it'll cost more to have less influence. Typical! Be interesting whether Article 50 will be triggered before the elections in France and Germany next year, or whether the stories that no negotiations are going to happen until it is are true. Did we really know what we were voting for? As an aside, has anyone seen the dubbed spoof of the Hitler drama "Downfall" doing the rounds on the internet? |
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Post by William Wilson on Jul 8, 2016 10:02:30 GMT
The path of the referendum was effectively changed when Johnson changed his mind and came out for Brexit. He was the effective spokesman for the Brexit campaign...he made a lot of comments on the outcomes and promised to divert the gross contributions to public spending, especially the NHS. He said it, he promised it. He promised border control, he promised that we would be great again (stop laughing at the back) Now he does not have the courage to stand and fight for those (choke) convictions. Coward or Charlatan...take yer pick There were people from the Labour Party saying the same things. Nigel Farage was saying things, and he is not even an MP. Didn't you realise this? David Cameron promised us WW3 if we voted Leave........are you now stocking up on tinned food and shotgun cartridges? Tinned food?? In Oldie`s kitchen, in Thatcher Manor, in leafy Hertfordshire??? I don`t think so. Wouldn`t go with the Chateau Croesus. The well heeled people of London and it`s environs will still be voting for the Labour party, long after the genuine working classes of the north and midlands have given up on it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 13:23:17 GMT
And how was the Rounders?
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Post by inee on Jul 8, 2016 19:20:56 GMT
Well it's looking quite clear that Gove, with only 48 MPs voting for him, will not be the new PM. Boris has gone, Nigel has gone, Gove is going. Having won the war, they've lost the battle. To paraphrase. So the negotiations are going to be lead by a Remainer. As I said a while back, I don't think we're actually going to leave, regardless of the result. And this is not said from a partisan point of view - just pragmatic. I think a deal will be stitched up where we become like Switzerland but much more tied in. Single market, free movement, contributing to the EU. A member in all but name. A good old British compromise which will please no-one but will avoid all out war. We always do things this way. Totally agree with this, it'll cost more to have less influence. Typical! Be interesting whether Article 50 will be triggered before the elections in France and Germany next year, or whether the stories that no negotiations are going to happen until it is are true. Did we really know what we were voting for? As an aside, has anyone seen the dubbed spoof of the Hitler drama "Downfall" doing the rounds on the internet? Yup bloody hilarious tis too  |
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Post by supergas on Jul 11, 2016 0:58:43 GMT
I've been having a lot of fun recently with my Facebook 'friends' talking about politics post-Brexit and we've come to this conclusion...i) no General Election until 2020 as scheduled, even in the unlikely event the new Tory leader wanted to call one. For it to be any earlier they would need a 2/3rds Commons majority to change the Fixed Term Parliament Act (unlikely, the SNP have nothing to gain and enough Tories would agree with the 52% of their electorate....) or they'd have to call (and win) a vote of no confidence in their own government....whilst this only needs 50%+1 of MPs to support it, you'd be effectively screwed at the upcoming General Election because of the way you had to make it happen....
....so we've got Tories led by May until 2020. Is this a bad thing? Oh, and I assume she will trigger article 50 later this year or early next year. We all know politicians love thinking about their 'legacy', and no-one wants to be the PM who somehow manages to screw up so badly they lose to Corbyn....
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Post by peterparker on Jul 11, 2016 11:26:28 GMT
Looks like May is going to be PM and The Tories trump Labour again
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Post by baggins on Jul 11, 2016 11:29:09 GMT
Looks like May is going to be PM and The Tories trump Labour again Don't say Trump. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 19:11:42 GMT
Looks like May is going to be PM and The Tories trump Labour again Theresa May reminds me of Joanna Lumley in Ab Fab, only uglier. It's the way she walks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 19:26:19 GMT
Looks like May is going to be PM and The Tories trump Labour again Don't say Trump. Trump. |
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