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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 20:11:15 GMT
As a side note, I've just spent a week in Austria. On the journey home the border crossing was very interesting. In the past, you'd just see a road sign declaring you were entering Germany, nothing else.
Now, you can see they are rebuilding the border control posts. A lot of work is going on to prepare traffic lanes, side stations where they can stop and search vehicles etc, lots of lighting being installed........and this is the border between Austria and Germany !
Interesting times.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 11, 2016 20:56:01 GMT
I've been having a lot of fun recently with my Facebook 'friends' talking about politics post-Brexit and we've come to this conclusion...i) no General Election until 2020 as scheduled, even in the unlikely event the new Tory leader wanted to call one. For it to be any earlier they would need a 2/3rds Commons majority to change the Fixed Term Parliament Act (unlikely, the SNP have nothing to gain and enough Tories would agree with the 52% of their electorate....) or they'd have to call (and win) a vote of no confidence in their own government....whilst this only needs 50%+1 of MPs to support it, you'd be effectively screwed at the upcoming General Election because of the way you had to make it happen.... ....so we've got Tories led by May until 2020. Is this a bad thing? Oh, and I assume she will trigger article 50 later this year or early next year. We all know politicians love thinking about their 'legacy', and no-one wants to be the PM who somehow manages to screw up so badly they lose to Corbyn.... Another 4 years of Tory rule at least. Deep Dam joy. Sad thing is, as much as I despise them they are actually the best we've got. Just saying that makes a little bit of sick well up in my throat. Blair really did kill the Labour party. What a horrible human being he is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2016 21:22:23 GMT
I've been having a lot of fun recently with my Facebook 'friends' talking about politics post-Brexit and we've come to this conclusion...i) no General Election until 2020 as scheduled, even in the unlikely event the new Tory leader wanted to call one. For it to be any earlier they would need a 2/3rds Commons majority to change the Fixed Term Parliament Act (unlikely, the SNP have nothing to gain and enough Tories would agree with the 52% of their electorate....) or they'd have to call (and win) a vote of no confidence in their own government....whilst this only needs 50%+1 of MPs to support it, you'd be effectively screwed at the upcoming General Election because of the way you had to make it happen.... ....so we've got Tories led by May until 2020. Is this a bad thing? Oh, and I assume she will trigger article 50 later this year or early next year. We all know politicians love thinking about their 'legacy', and no-one wants to be the PM who somehow manages to screw up so badly they lose to Corbyn.... Another 4 years of Tory rule at least. Deep f**king joy. Sad thing is, as much as I despise them they are actually the best we've got. Just saying that makes a little bit of sick well up in my throat. Blair really did kill the Labour party. What a horrible human being he is. It's a sad state of affairs isn't it! I think you are right in that the Labour Party is finished. The Momentum/Militant crew now hold the power in the Party, and that means it is totally unelectable. I actually think a lot of Tory voters are a mite watered off with May being the Leader, and will now switch over to UKIP, and in a way it'll be history repeating itself as May will attempt to stop that (as Cameron did by announcing the referendum). UKIP has shown that they can also attract Labour voters, so could a lot of Labour voters switch to UKIP because of the situation in the Labour Party? Could we soon be in a situation where it's UKIP that is actually the party that is holding the Tory Government to account? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to 'big up' UKIP, but I genuinely believe the general public are watered off with the Tories. They're watered off with Labour, so the question is, where will they put their vote in the future? |
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Post by aghast on Jul 11, 2016 21:30:13 GMT
So the not-so-secret Remainer Johnson got stabbed, Gove got dumped, Farage got disillusioned, Leadsom got paranoid, the not-so-secret Brexiter Corbyn got a boo from everyone, Cameron got to doublethink his statement that he would oversee a Brexit vote, and we've got a new PM who no one has voted in who wants us to stay in the EU.
You couldn't possibly have made it up.
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Post by baggins on Jul 12, 2016 11:26:36 GMT
So the not-so-secret Remainer Johnson got stabbed, Gove got dumped, Farage got disillusioned, Leadsom got paranoid, the not-so-secret Brexiter Corbyn got a boo from everyone, Cameron got to doublethink his statement that he would oversee a Brexit vote, and we've got a new PM who no one has voted in who wants us to stay in the EU. You couldn't possibly have made it up. Lovely isn't it? |
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Post by inee on Jul 12, 2016 11:31:18 GMT
So the not-so-secret Remainer Johnson got stabbed, Gove got dumped, Farage got disillusioned, Leadsom got paranoid, the not-so-secret Brexiter Corbyn got a boo from everyone, Cameron got to doublethink his statement that he would oversee a Brexit vote, and we've got a new PM who no one has voted in who wants us to stay in the EU. You couldn't possibly have made it up. Cant agree with that bit as no one votes for a pm ,rather votes for the party and policies, if someone votes just for who the pm is they should be lined up  |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 12, 2016 12:15:52 GMT
So the not-so-secret Remainer Johnson got stabbed, Gove got dumped, Farage got disillusioned, Leadsom got paranoid, the not-so-secret Brexiter Corbyn got a boo from everyone, Cameron got to doublethink his statement that he would oversee a Brexit vote, and we've got a new PM who no one has voted in who wants us to stay in the EU. You couldn't possibly have made it up. Cant agree with that bit as no one votes for a pm ,rather votes for the party and policies, if someone votes just for who the pm is they should be lined up Sorry to burst your bubble but most people vote for parties based solely on the leader at every election! How many people do you know who voted UKIP did so because of Farage? Nearly everyone I know couldn't even name our local UKIP candidate yet or any of their actual policy but they voted UKIP. |
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Post by aghast on Jul 12, 2016 16:43:40 GMT
So the not-so-secret Remainer Johnson got stabbed, Gove got dumped, Farage got disillusioned, Leadsom got paranoid, the not-so-secret Brexiter Corbyn got a boo from everyone, Cameron got to doublethink his statement that he would oversee a Brexit vote, and we've got a new PM who no one has voted in who wants us to stay in the EU. You couldn't possibly have made it up. Cant agree with that bit as no one votes for a pm ,rather votes for the party and policies, if someone votes just for who the pm is they should be lined up I take your point about not directly voting for a PM, but as Hugo says, the leader of the party is the main influence, at least nowadays, on how people vote. In 2007 when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, a certain Theresa May called for a General Election so that Brown could prove he had a mandate to govern. I wonder what she thinks about that principle now? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 17:07:41 GMT
Cant agree with that bit as no one votes for a pm ,rather votes for the party and policies, if someone votes just for who the pm is they should be lined up I take your point about not directly voting for a PM, but as Hugo says, the leader of the party is the main influence, at least nowadays, on how people vote. In 2007 when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, a certain Theresa May called for a General Election so that Brown could prove he had a mandate to govern. I wonder what she thinks about that principle now? Thatcher was replaced mid-term....No general election. Blair was replaced mid-term.......No general election. There were probably others as well. It's not new is it! In reality, an election now would just be a re-run of the EU Referendum, when it should be about the British economy. |
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Post by aghast on Jul 12, 2016 17:13:12 GMT
You'd better tell Theresa that before it's too late.
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 12, 2016 18:57:20 GMT
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Post by inee on Jul 12, 2016 19:54:42 GMT
Cant agree with that bit as no one votes for a pm ,rather votes for the party and policies, if someone votes just for who the pm is they should be lined up I take your point about not directly voting for a PM, but as Hugo says, the leader of the party is the main influence, at least nowadays, on how people vote. In 2007 when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, a certain Theresa May called for a General Election so that Brown could prove he had a mandate to govern. I wonder what she thinks about that principle now? Doesnt matter what she thinks as the precedent has been set |
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Post by inee on Jul 12, 2016 20:00:14 GMT
Cant agree with that bit as no one votes for a pm ,rather votes for the party and policies, if someone votes just for who the pm is they should be lined up Sorry to burst your bubble but most people vote for parties based solely on the leader at every election! How many people do you know who voted UKIP did so because of Farage? Nearly everyone I know couldn't even name our local UKIP candidate yet or any of their actual policy but they voted UKIP. If that really is the case then they shouldn't be allowed out unaided never mind a vote, Still wont believe people vote for a party based on the leader and nothing else, people who voted ukip would have done so based on policies, no-one votes green because their leader has big narks do em |
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Post by inee on Jul 12, 2016 20:04:08 GMT
The interesting bit i think is if he wins again will the other party members finally accept him or keep on challenging, lets be honest he was voted in democratically by party members but mp's seem to think what ordinary members want doesnt matter, talk about ways to f**k up a party in public |
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Post by inee on Jul 12, 2016 20:06:00 GMT
I take your point about not directly voting for a PM, but as Hugo says, the leader of the party is the main influence, at least nowadays, on how people vote. In 2007 when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, a certain Theresa May called for a General Election so that Brown could prove he had a mandate to govern. I wonder what she thinks about that principle now? Thatcher was replaced mid-term....No general election. Blair was replaced mid-term.......No general election. There were probably others as well. It's not new is it! In reality, an election now would just be a re-run of the EU Referendum, when it should be about the British economy. I feel if an election was held now a loony party like the greens would probably win, god help us  |
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Post by aghast on Jul 12, 2016 20:07:10 GMT
I take your point about not directly voting for a PM, but as Hugo says, the leader of the party is the main influence, at least nowadays, on how people vote. In 2007 when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, a certain Theresa May called for a General Election so that Brown could prove he had a mandate to govern. I wonder what she thinks about that principle now? Doesnt matter what she thinks as the precedent has been set It's a precedent, not a law. She can do what she wants now. If she thinks she can get a bigger majority with the Labour Party in chaos, she might choose do do it. Or she might choose not to, if she thinks the Brexiters might not want to vote for her. She keeps saying "Brexit means Brexit", which means nothing unless we understand what Brexit means to her. |
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Post by inee on Jul 12, 2016 20:10:07 GMT
yes but she wont call an election as it would be political suicide for her, talking about brexit, it make me chuckle how the word is now being used for any country who wants out. strange
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 12, 2016 20:16:18 GMT
Sorry to burst your bubble but most people vote for parties based solely on the leader at every election! How many people do you know who voted UKIP did so because of Farage? Nearly everyone I know couldn't even name our local UKIP candidate yet or any of their actual policy but they voted UKIP. If that really is the case then they shouldn't be allowed out unaided never mind a vote, Still wont believe people vote for a party based on the leader and nothing else, people who voted ukip would have done so based on policies, no-one votes green because their leader has big narks do em I agree, they are fuckwits but I honestly can't think of more than a handful of people I know who didn't vote based on the party leader. I'm starting to wonder how safe this country is in a democracy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 20:44:45 GMT
If that really is the case then they shouldn't be allowed out unaided never mind a vote, Still wont believe people vote for a party based on the leader and nothing else, people who voted ukip would have done so based on policies, no-one votes green because their leader has big narks do em I agree, they are fuckwits but I honestly can't think of more than a handful of people I know who didn't vote based on the party leader. I'm starting to wonder how safe this country is in a democracy. As you can imagine, I've had loads of Germans asking me about Brexit. Some of the exchanges have been quite staggering. I had one guy, who I can only describe as a very senior German Banking executive, telling me that 'people like ourselves can obviously look at the facts and make a rational decision, but there are too many stupid people out there. The Brexit issue is too complicated for the idiots, who should learn to accept that we know better than them"..........this exchange stunned me into silence. Another person was telling me that the financial problems in the EU could be sorted out by "putting Germans in charge of the finances of every country", and if that were to happen there would be no need for Brexit, and he seriously believed this! |
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Post by baggins on Jul 13, 2016 10:38:56 GMT
I agree, they are fuckwits but I honestly can't think of more than a handful of people I know who didn't vote based on the party leader. I'm starting to wonder how safe this country is in a democracy. As you can imagine, I've had loads of Germans asking me about Brexit. Some of the exchanges have been quite staggering. I had one guy, who I can only describe as a very senior German Banking executive, telling me that 'people like ourselves can obviously look at the facts and make a rational decision, but there are too many stupid people out there. The Brexit issue is too complicated for the idiots, who should learn to accept that we know better than them"..........this exchange stunned me into silence. Another person was telling me that the financial problems in the EU could be sorted out by "putting Germans in charge of the finances of every country", and if that were to happen there would be no need for Brexit, and he seriously believed this! They're not doing too bad though to be honest are they? |
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