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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 16:05:18 GMT
I think a settled formation that most of our team are comfortable with is the best foundation if DC insists on making multiple unforced changes in each game.
I wouldn't normally call for the same formation in most games but when DC is changing the personnel in every game (more than any other season), changing the formation on top of that causes mistakes and we have shipped a lot of goals so far through players out of position etc.
Don't you think playing the same formation for every game would just make us easy pickings for the other managers? If they know how we are going to be set-up, then expect them to make changes to counter-act it. It's not about having a formation that players are 'comfortable with'. It's about having players who have the mental ability to adapt to formation changes at any time.
Let them, there is a definite downside to trying to nullify the opposition rather than playing to your own strengths.
I think we have players capable of beating anyone, i've seen most of the L1 opposition and apart from some individual players the teams as a whole haven't been that impressive.
What's wrong with discussing ways to improve and aiming to be up there with Scunthorpe and Sheff Utd?
I'm not knocking DC after what he has achieved but the constant changing this season is having an impact on the defence imo. Brown suffers with the wing back system and Tom hasn't reached his normal consistent level probably due to not having a settled partner.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 21, 2016 16:09:38 GMT
Moaning about a draw home to mk dons ffs yes I was there and yes it wasn't pretty but as long as we stay up this season it's an achievement. Let's get our feet back on the ground here. Yeah, you are probably right. I was just fed up Saturday because I felt they were there for the taking. We are still above where I thought we'd finish. 1st world problems eh?
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Post by peterparker on Nov 21, 2016 16:16:03 GMT
by using all sorts of algorithms
It's too simple to say why is Lines more of a risk of Injury because he doesn't run as much as Sinclair
Sinclair is obviously fitter. everyone has different physiology, higher VO2 Max etc
Rubbish, clearly if every single fan doesn't understand something, having done no testing, no research, and having no experience in the field, then it obviously should be dismissed out of hand. My sarcasm detector nearly wasn't working there
some VO2Max info for the un-initiated
Maximal oxygen uptake (VO2 max) is widely accepted as the single best measure of cardiovascular fitness and maximal aerobic power.
Cardiac output, pulmonary diffusion capacity, oxygen carrying capacity, and other peripheral limitations like muscle diffusion capacity, mitochondrial enzymes, and capillary density are all examples of VO2 max determinants. The body works as a system. If one of these factor is sub-par, then the whole system loses its normal capacity to function properly.[23]
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 21, 2016 16:32:02 GMT
Thank god we didn't have this new fangled tech last season, or Browner would have missed the last game. After all he played all the others. It was a mistake by DC short and simple. If he was worried about burn out, why did he not drop the requisite players from the cup replay? Some players benefit from a break, some players don't. Not that hard, is it? Back to my point how does a computer work that out? Isn't it just easier just to ask the player if he feels knackered or not?
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Post by peterparker on Nov 21, 2016 16:34:13 GMT
Some players benefit from a break, some players don't. Not that hard, is it? Back to my point how does a computer work that out? Isn't it just easier just to ask the player if he feels knackered or not? But it isn't one or the other is it.
The computer can suggest x player is below par. I imagine DC and the staff actually talk to the player as well
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 16:54:16 GMT
To give some clarity:
Professional footballers can play every three days, correct. However, after several months they get injured. The points can be argued back and forth forever as to whether you play a settled team. I will not repeat the same excellent observations above about DC, but I WILL point out that both squad rotation and settled teams can win leagues. This being the case, which would you choose - 11 winners or 22 winners? Which is better for morale and injuries?
The top level of the game inevitably attracts the best talent. How do the top teams play? With all their millions, shouldn't somebody tell them they have the squad game all wrong?
As for formation, we have a little a little riddle going on.
We always seem to play good attacking football with wingers and 442.
You could rephrase this to "we always play 442 and wingers when we play attacking football"
Does this mean that playing 442 all of the time will lead to winning football?
NO!
THERE IS MORE TO FOOTBALL than simply putting attacking players in attacking positions.
It seems many fans, if they were appointed as footballing consultants, would provide the following advice:
Play your most attacking players in your most attacking formations and make sure they aren't allowed to kick the ball backwards.
Wave after wave of continuing attack. On they come, each attack more incisive than the last.
With this "never backwards" strategy each attack ends in a goal or a goal kick.
I'm being provocative but I am heartily fed up with clots next to be on the terrace doing a collective groan when Sinclair plays back.
How difficult is it to understand that some players are in the team PARTLY to attack and PARTLY to decent and harass he opponents. As such, Sinclair is not, never was, never will be and never pretended to be the player who can skin opponents in the centre circle or in front of the back 4, and neither can he hit a Hollywood ball. He is not a bad footballer, he is not a FLAIR footballer.
I'm sorry SteveK and others but this "always forwards" stuff, in which I mean criticising players for passing around to create space, is reminiscent of 10 year old boys playing FIFA or a kick about. I cannot understand how one can appreciate football and not appreciate the role of this type of player. I really appreciate seeing us pen teams back and work an angle, see it close and then go back to the keeper or pass through the back 4. Otherwise, you end up with longball football. Sinclair went back to CBs twice and got a big groan for it. Presumably he should be skinning opponents in dodgy positions or just launch it up the wing.
All opinions so this isn't personal to you Steve or anyone else, in case anyone took it that way, but the groans affect the team so it would be nice if we can all get used to modern football and the modern game of passing we are getting dragged into!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 16:54:34 GMT
To give some clarity:
Professional footballers can play every three days, correct. However, after several months they get injured. The points can be argued back and forth forever as to whether you play a settled team. I will not repeat the same excellent observations above about DC, but I WILL point out that both squad rotation and settled teams can win leagues. This being the case, which would you choose - 11 winners or 22 winners? Which is better for morale and injuries?
The top level of the game inevitably attracts the best talent. How do the top teams play? With all their millions, shouldn't somebody tell them they have the squad game all wrong?
As for formation, we have a little a little riddle going on.
We always seem to play good attacking football with wingers and 442.
You could rephrase this to "we always play 442 and wingers when we play attacking football"
Does this mean that playing 442 all of the time will lead to winning football?
NO!
THERE IS MORE TO FOOTBALL than simply putting attacking players in attacking positions.
It seems many fans, if they were appointed as footballing consultants, would provide the following advice:
Play your most attacking players in your most attacking formations and make sure they aren't allowed to kick the ball backwards.
Wave after wave of continuing attack. On they come, each attack more incisive than the last.
With this "never backwards" strategy each attack ends in a goal or a goal kick.
I'm being provocative but I am heartily fed up with clots next to be on the terrace doing a collective groan when Sinclair plays back.
How difficult is it to understand that some players are in the team PARTLY to attack and PARTLY to decent and harass he opponents. As such, Sinclair is not, never was, never will be and never pretended to be the player who can skin opponents in the centre circle or in front of the back 4, and neither can he hit a Hollywood ball. He is not a bad footballer, he is not a FLAIR footballer.
I'm sorry SteveK and others but this "always forwards" stuff, in which I mean criticising players for passing around to create space, is reminiscent of 10 year old boys playing FIFA or a kick about. I cannot understand how one can appreciate football and not appreciate the role of this type of player. I really appreciate seeing us pen teams back and work an angle, see it close and then go back to the keeper or pass through the back 4. Otherwise, you end up with longball football. Sinclair went back to CBs twice and got a big groan for it. Presumably he should be skinning opponents in dodgy positions or just launch it up the wing.
All opinions so this isn't personal to you Steve or anyone else, in case anyone took it that way, but the groans affect the team so it would be nice if we can all get used to modern football and the modern game of passing we are getting dragged into!
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Post by bluegas on Nov 21, 2016 16:55:22 GMT
Back to my point how does a computer work that out? Isn't it just easier just to ask the player if he feels knackered or not? But it isn't one or the other is it.
The computer can suggest x player is below par. I imagine DC and the staff actually talk to the player as well
I was gonna make the same point Pete - the computer doesn't decide. Highly skilled/trained/qualified operatives make decisions based on the info it supplies. But yeah, ask the player.... & get an answer based on his opinion, not factual
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Post by spiess1 on Nov 21, 2016 16:55:31 GMT
And you can be sure MKD spent all week planning to counter Matty Taylor only to find he wasn't starting. Mind Games.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 17:03:22 GMT
And you can be sure MKD spent all week planning to counter Matty Taylor only to find he wasn't starting. Mind Games.
Yet they were the first team to stop us scoring at home in the league for the first time in over a year in the league! Proper bamboozled them.
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Post by bluegas on Nov 21, 2016 17:10:50 GMT
I won't copy your post Gregory but I'm with you entirely. I don't get why some on here forget what we are - the core of the team is ex-conference. They're castoffs who others thought wouldn't make it. They've got limited ability. DC has to juggle it to get the best out of them. He's not doing badly.
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Post by peterparker on Nov 21, 2016 17:12:16 GMT
just make the computer manager damn it
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Nov 21, 2016 17:32:45 GMT
[ Every manager makes mistakes - there isn't a single manager in the history of football who doesn't make mistakes and get it wrong in some games. All you can do is get it right more often than you get it wrong, and no one can argue that DC has done that since he's been here. Which makes calling for us to start 442 every game - when that isn't what's brought us our success - bizarre IMO.
I think a settled formation that most of our team are comfortable with is the best foundation if DC insists on making multiple unforced changes in each game.
I wouldn't normally call for the same formation in most games but when DC is changing the personnel in every game (more than any other season), changing the formation on top of that causes mistakes and we have shipped a lot of goals so far through players out of position etc.
I do agree with that - I think changes in system and personnel have more of a negative impact on the defence than on the midfield or attack. But I also think our defenders are just average at this level, rather than being some of the best defenders in the league in the Conference and League Two.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Nov 21, 2016 17:35:10 GMT
@gregorystevens Such a good post I liked both of them!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 17:41:47 GMT
I think a settled formation that most of our team are comfortable with is the best foundation if DC insists on making multiple unforced changes in each game.
I wouldn't normally call for the same formation in most games but when DC is changing the personnel in every game (more than any other season), changing the formation on top of that causes mistakes and we have shipped a lot of goals so far through players out of position etc.
I do agree with that - I think changes in system and personnel have more of a negative impact on the defence than on the midfield or attack. But I also think our defenders are just average at this level, rather than being some of the best defenders in the league in the Conference and League Two.
I honestly don't think the step-up from L2 is that great, the next step would be the big one.
DC has never tinkered with formations and players as much as this season and in my eyes its made the defence unstable. Matty is scoring goals so its making us hard to beat but I don't think that wil continue over the whole season, there has to be some stability or else everyone would be doing it.
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Post by Nortongashead on Nov 21, 2016 17:52:54 GMT
What annoys me is for years we all moaned about how unprofessionally the club was ran on the pitch. I don't think DC would have rested MT RG CL last season but he is embracing the changes the club are taking to be more professional. I think Saturday is a massive over-reaction and the sooner some people realise what's been achieved and the changes that have been made, things will be more bearable.
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Post by spiess1 on Nov 21, 2016 18:32:45 GMT
What gregorystevens said was put beautifully by another poster on the previous page: "You must stand near me, tinner. If Rovers don't win every tackle it's cos they're not trying. Possession of the ball doesn't matter, just "get it forward". Whereupon, "they don't keep the ball". Ad infinitum. Ad nauseam."
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 21, 2016 19:02:56 GMT
The support team DC now has surrounding the team, computer analyst, a fairly large medical team, dietician is more than we've ever had and part of their roles must be to stop us having the long term injuries we've often had over the past few seasons. For it to have any value and be worthwhile must mean that DC will take any scientific findings into account. If he just ignored what these analysts were advising esp when lots of money has been invested into this area, would be silly. If he ignored what they said and then a key player pulled a muscle or did a cruciate ligament which could be career threatening then DC would be seriously at fault. Again, this is an area we fans are going to have to get used to. It is a sign of how much we have grown over 2 years, I can't imagine having all this staff in the Conference so to have it now is incredible. But it comes with a cost, we are moving up as a club very quickly and some fans will find it hard to accept all this technology that DC is using about player fitness. Just asking players are you fit is long gone, after all, players would always tell you the truth wouldn't they! No one wants to lose their place and not play do they? I guess the proof will be in how we do with injuries and how we do with results. So far this season, fingers crossed, the injuries have been fairly minor. Byron Moore has had a few but I can't think of too many more so perhaps it is working. And we are in top half of table with exciting times to come. UTG!
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 21, 2016 19:07:20 GMT
DC seems to have become obsessed with tinkering, whether it's benefiting or restricting our results is not eady to work out, but what's the betting AFC Wimbledon have a small squad compared to ours but they are now above us in the league?
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Post by markczgas on Nov 21, 2016 19:18:37 GMT
DC seems to have become obsessed with tinkering, whether it's benefiting or restricting our results is not eady to work out, but what's the betting AFC Wimbledon have a small squad compared to ours but they are now above us in the league? Yeah, I'm going to cry my pillow about that.
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