stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,551 
Member is Online
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jun 20, 2017 9:30:17 GMT
Never too old to learn, especially from other people's experiences. I do all the time, including yours.
Out of interest, did you type that reply before or after you read my post, as I didn't say there was no problems or outsourcing, although perhaps there isn't as much as you fear. I presume you have had recent experience of the NHS too or know others who have.
|
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jun 20, 2017 9:33:11 GMT
so as your post suggests you cannot digest others viewpoint, i shall ask a specific set of questions ,and would hope you had the intellect to answer those questions directly without trying to hide behind other subjects ,to make this simple in your own words what is the difference betwixt racism and religion ,and how that fits with your calling a poster a racist . and if your still concentrating on answering direct questions ,what is your take on the fire who is to blame etc I'm sure even you can reply to this post in an adult manner I initially posted on the thread that although i dislike her politics i agreed that charlotte leslie had indeed been a hands on mp,i met her and had a conversation with her on 2 visits she made to my local football club shirehampton fc. In all my years involved in local football ive never seen a real live mp turn up and discuss a local clubs issue. I only usually discuss politics with a tiny group of people mostly like minded,i dont need to argue politics with right wing supporters as i already know and have known for many years that i believe in a socialist labour party which we finally have[ wilsons goverment is arguably the last time we had this]. Somehow ive got embroiled in arguments with people i have nothing to say to,i watch question time and some mainstream news though its bias sickens me and i follow stuff on facebook. I have been to 2 corbyn rallys the last one at birmingham in a large crowd. I didnt think g97"s post about god made them die was very nice,most of the victims were ethnic minority and many muslim,im pretty sure if if say vince cable had made that statement he would be universally vilified as islam phobic and racist and i would agree with that. All ive seen in recent years is the contracting out of public services to private companies who then spend as little as possible during the contract and compromise safety to maximise profit. Dirty hospitals and badly maintained properties used by would be council tenants 2 examples of this. Just across from the disaster are millionaires appartments with sprinkler systems and much more overall fire safety. Wealthy people can have gold plated taps in their bathroom but they should not be any safer than poor people in my view. This goverments arrogance and their reckless police and fire cuts have now bit them on the backside and they are suddenly not quite so arrogant and disdainful as they were. Mind you they are happy to threaten peace in ireland by getting into bed with the dup. Agree with you on charlotte ,she was the only politician who has stayed during a doorstep conversation even though it din't go her way ,lib dems were told to feck orf ,labour was ok for a few seconds but when the conversation wasn't going their way he walked off Thing is if you(as in everyone only ever talk politics with like minded folk they views tend to be narrowed ,nobody's arguing on this thread more a discussion sometimes a tad heated ,depends on your definition of the right wing, socialism has never worked in any country. Ok i can see where your coming from but dont forget the majority of wilsons policies were just amendments to stuff the liberals had already bought in ,also in wilsons last tenure in office the miners were striking again so it wasn't all as it seemed ,you also have to remember that his successor callaghan got into bed with the welsh and scottish nationalist and also the ulster unionists to get his majority ,also remember that corbyn was in bed with the ira at the time ,so you have 1 party (labour) on both sides weird. I try to watch question time however after a few minutes i feel like throwing an ashtray through the screen ,extremely biased program ,in fact one of the better guests i ever saw on qt was johnny rotten ,spoke more sense in a few minutes than most of the guests for years, mainstream news agree ,bbc is the worst kin hell if they lent any farther to the left they would end up kissing their asses on the right  ,one thing that does surprise me is your admission that anyone with it seems a willingness to discuss politics from a differing perspective than your you wouldn't normally speak too. lets look out at your point on g79's post about god comment i will say again there was not one jot of racism in that post and one thing that make me bleed purple pish is people seem to think these days that any thing said against religion is racist ,no one can deny that when someone mentions a certain religion everyone goes on the defensive and cry racist at the top of their voices ,i wish people would wake up and realise the liberal clap trap that equates religion and racism is a fallacy invented moronic liberal wets so they can feel good about themselves ,the other thing is yes the post wasn't very nice but if you look at it with fresh eyes you should be able to see the point he was making and that was ,people use religion as an excuse for everything when it goes their way it's god being rewarding ,when things go wrong it's everyone elses fault ,the thing is it's something i've pondered over since i had my first re lesson , how can one say they believe in a god then when stuff goes wrong it's never gods fault surely thats hypocrisy at the highest level ,quite simply religion was needed at a time when the human race possessed little knowledge and appeased those who wondered why volcanoes erupted etc ,it didn't take long for people to see the absolute control and power it had over it's followers, unbelieveable this control still exists today(and before anyone makes assumptions it's not just one religion most feel this way) . The nhs is top heavy and needs to step back a bit ,matrons need to come back as ward heads cleaners need to be cleaning properly and bleaching everything in sight ,i remember when every hospital had that lovely bleach smell. It's difficult for me to see any link betwixt police cuts and terrorism ,let me explain the terrorists are using dirty tactics ie driving into civilians at random ,random knife murders ,it wouldn't matter if you had one copper every 50 yds on the streets they would still be able to carry out these tasks ,as for corbyn saying talking to em will help .no it wont see if your going to main and kill indiscriminately ,blow yourself up ,die to be martyred ,then no amount of tea swilling with pinkie raised stop it ,the way to stop it would be shoot to maim ,make sure they are wheelchair bound for the rest of their lives destroy their clean hand ,and give them male carers ,that would stop em as it would be totally against all their beliefs living like that ,no martyrdom for them. we are now seeing terrorism on the streets for some it's the first time ,for others like me you can't help but think oh here we go again , and whose to blame this time yup Labour(yeah i know the leader was an egotistical warmongering war criminal) . I was surprised that his mrs didn't do more to stop him after all her dad was a leftie). Going back to your mention of vince cable or any other politician for that matter it cant be disputed that they would be called islamophobic and it genuinely saddens me that they have so much power over the general public ,and for a fact if it had been some of the other religions then no one would have said anything ,it's the same as another religion if you dare say anything about them you get arrested an example if i said the pope was a peado by association or the archbishop was a lady garden then not one eyebrow would be raised. One real problem for me is the way the murder of a muslim is being classed as terrorism ,hear me out ,i said like many others the terrorism laws would be restrictive and a way of rounding up any undesirables ,we seem to be one step closer it's difficult to explain ,some beller tried to carry out a revenge attack ,and should be charged with murder if his actions caused the death of the person who was receiving first aid ,if not then 20 year for being a pleb would suffice. The problem is where this is heading as now say you for example got into a fight with someone who was religious and killed him ,should you be convicted of terrorism or should you be charged with murder ,it's the start of a very slippery slope for abuse of a law as if misused ,it will end up like the laws for football fans ,arrested charged etc ,based on the assumption of one copper(just used as an example to illustrate how corruption of certain laws happen) ,i fear it won't be long until the terrorism laws in this country are akin to the american patriots act ,or even worse the word terrorism becomes just another word we get used to. the flat fire problem is it's easy to apportion blame ,without the full facts being known ,do we go back to the original architect and blame them , do we blame the guy whose flat the fire started in(some already are but at this stage it cant be relied on) ,do we blame europe as the cladding seems to be part of an energy reduction that we signed up to ,did the builders leave too much of an air gap betwixt panels and wall(did the specified gap act as a set of bellows due to the air pressure with it being so high or as a simple chimney possible effects of an air gap)), were the landings cluttered with rubbish as suggested , were fire doors wedged open in communal areas ,were fire doors removed or replaced in flats ,did the windows have those firestop things ,was it arson(my reasoning for this is a tumble drier was blamed too quickly) etc there are way too many variables and assumptions at present. If we look back on housing stock it was a labour government who slowed down building council properties ,and yes maggie has to take some blame for the right to buy scheme(until then people were happy renting ,but now the majority of people want to own a house, even those labour supporters who think theres not enough social housing but they still bought to line their own pockets) ,it's also worth mentioning that successive labour governments have not reversed the majority of tory policies, the reason being that for years labour had struggled to maintain nationalised industry ,and maggie gave them an out . It was obvious that corbyn would garner a larger number of labour seats than others because he went back to the old labour ways ,it was obvious from the moment his party revolted and forced another leadership vote ,funny how some of those who refused to work with him are doing so now ,the problem for me with him apart from being labour is his refusal to press the button if required ,very dangerous policy as they are a deterrent ,if they weren't this country would have been turn't to glass a long time ago ,then theres abbot how can anyone even begin to think of voting for her |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jun 20, 2017 10:17:08 GMT
It's probably best to widen your network as it at least helps to see things from other viewpoints, I also hope you are not referring to me as a right winger as I certainly am not. From a personal point of view, I have spent a lot of time in hospital and they are very clean with no private companies involved, apart from the occasional agency nurse. That isn't to say there is a problem as I only see a tiny percentage. Im at a stage in life where i know my mind so i get other viewpoints from media rather than frustrating conversations,i prefer not to talk politics in life mostly. Thanks for letting me know there is no private contracting in the nhs,i must have just be imagining such a thing. Me n wend have had to rely on the nhs for treatment and monitoring Ann Marie Irene when she was alive, that treatment was nothing short of fantastic ,they went above and beyond what i expected for free. I was in and out of hospital a short while back (damn bastids aliens probed me in places i didn't know existed) ,staff were friendly(i'm not the easiest person to deal with when i'm ill or coming out of an anesthetic) ,food was good ,room was clean etc ,what more could they have done. I feel that peoples expectations are to high ,not only do some want treatment but no matter how well that treatments delivered seem to want to be treated as if they are in a 5 star hotel (dont beat me over the head as i realise that some treatments aren't funded ,and some joke surgeries are) . The blame can't be leveled just at politicians as no matter how much money is given to the nhs more will be required as people get used to the higher standards of care and expect more next time. The blame lays from the top down ,how many fucknuggets do you see with a scratch or a cold waiting to be seen to bypass a visit to the docs ,how many put their greed before their health as they won't visit docs during the day (time off work) but would rather sit in a&e for hours on end costing more. Another thing worth mentioning is the advancement of treatments and diagnosis ,in some instances you can be in and diagnosed within a day or two ,so i suspect some people see this as a failing ,as in been having this problem for years but the hospital vet diagnosed me within an hour etc Access to hospital services depends a lot on your GP if they are old school you tend to get sent to hospital only if accompanied by both of your great ,great great grandparents ,if you have a more modern pro active GP they see the benefit of getting your treated sooner rather than later ,which in turn saves money. you don't tend to see the contracted out services but they are there ,property maintenance is farmed out ,equipment servicing and repair is also mostly contracted out ,it used to be in house a lot of the time ,but since electronics has got more board based ,it's cheaper to get the equipment manufacturer in to do repairs ,it also ensures that the majority of equipment is in A1 condition as oem engineers tend to see a set of products regularly so tend to know things like the life cycle of products what fails and doesn't fail etc, cleaning also tends to be farmed out thats one i disagree with as they take shortcuts, whedreas in the old days the cleaners had to answer to the matron if thing weren't right .
The other big thing is bugs and viruses tend to get more resistant to medication ,no amount of cleaning can help until a product is found to fight em.
So whilst some seem to want more than the nhs can offer ,in the main im well please with the treatment my family have received over the years
|
|
|
|
Post by LJG on Jun 20, 2017 10:45:49 GMT
And herein lies your problem. If you think the crap you see on Facebook isn't bias or even largely untrue you are sorely mistaken. Facebook has algorithms to manipulate the political influences you see. That's not a conspiracy theory it's the truth - search for Tristan Harris, former head of ethics at Google and Facebook and hear what he has to say. It's easy to check that most "news" that gets posted there is horse sh**; formerly respectable publications like The Independent are particularly awful. For example The Independent ran an article with the headline that the pound is now worth less than the euro - something perfectly simple not only to disprove but see has never been true. The fact that the blood-monger Jeremy Corbyn (the man who opposed a ceasefire in Northern Ireland, who spoke at Hezbollah rallies, who invited Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA to Westminster) is being portrayed as a man of peace shows that Facebook's algorithms are succeeding. Facebook themselves aren't able to deny that those algorithms are capable of (and are) being manipulated from Russia. Again that's not a conspiracy theory, just a fact. Read about what's going on in Ukraine. I know you think everybody is stupid apart from you but i already know facebook shows you stuff that panders to your interests and political bias its bloody obvious,just as bbc and sky news news clearly have an establishment bias so i try to balance all news available. what i tried to say early in this thread is that at last there is a proper socialist labour party for me to vote in line with my political beliefs. The blair years and wishy washy milliband simply mimicked conservatives which to me was pointless. My point was rather that what Facebook is showing you is not just biased it's not news. It's not just not news it's not even true. Saying you balance the BBC bias with Facebook is like saying you balance your diet between eating junk food and eating horse sh**. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2017 17:16:43 GMT
Im at a stage in life where i know my mind so i get other viewpoints from media rather than frustrating conversations,i prefer not to talk politics in life mostly. Thanks for letting me know there is no private contracting in the nhs,i must have just be imagining such a thing. Me n wend have had to rely on the nhs for treatment and monitoring Ann Marie Irene when she was alive, that treatment was nothing short of fantastic ,they went above and beyond what i expected for free. I was in and out of hospital a short while back (damn bastids aliens probed me in places i didn't know existed) ,staff were friendly(i'm not the easiest person to deal with when i'm ill or coming out of an anesthetic) ,food was good ,room was clean etc ,what more could they have done. I feel that peoples expectations are to high ,not only do some want treatment but no matter how well that treatments delivered seem to want to be treated as if they are in a 5 star hotel (dont beat me over the head as i realise that some treatments aren't funded ,and some joke surgeries are) . The blame can't be leveled just at politicians as no matter how much money is given to the nhs more will be required as people get used to the higher standards of care and expect more next time. The blame lays from the top down ,how many fucknuggets do you see with a scratch or a cold waiting to be seen to bypass a visit to the docs ,how many put their greed before their health as they won't visit docs during the day (time off work) but would rather sit in a&e for hours on end costing more. Another thing worth mentioning is the advancement of treatments and diagnosis ,in some instances you can be in and diagnosed within a day or two ,so i suspect some people see this as a failing ,as in been having this problem for years but the hospital vet diagnosed me within an hour etc Access to hospital services depends a lot on your GP if they are old school you tend to get sent to hospital only if accompanied by both of your great ,great great grandparents ,if you have a more modern pro active GP they see the benefit of getting your treated sooner rather than later ,which in turn saves money. you don't tend to see the contracted out services but they are there ,property maintenance is farmed out ,equipment servicing and repair is also mostly contracted out ,it used to be in house a lot of the time ,but since electronics has got more board based ,it's cheaper to get the equipment manufacturer in to do repairs ,it also ensures that the majority of equipment is in A1 condition as oem engineers tend to see a set of products regularly so tend to know things like the life cycle of products what fails and doesn't fail etc, cleaning also tends to be farmed out thats one i disagree with as they take shortcuts, whedreas in the old days the cleaners had to answer to the matron if thing weren't right .
The other big thing is bugs and viruses tend to get more resistant to medication ,no amount of cleaning can help until a product is found to fight em.
So whilst some seem to want more than the nhs can offer ,in the main im well please with the treatment my family have received over the years
Agreed. There is massive out sourcing in the NHS. I would even go so far as to suggest that 1 in 5 nurses are not employed by the NHS but are agency nurses supplied by external providers at great expense. The government (Tory) cut all bursary funding for student nurses a few years ago and low an behold there is now a massive short fall in qualified nurses which is only being given made worse by Brexit. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 17:27:15 GMT
Hugo - Why is Brexit making it worse?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 17:58:55 GMT
Im at a stage in life where i know my mind so i get other viewpoints from media rather than frustrating conversations,i prefer not to talk politics in life mostly. Thanks for letting me know there is no private contracting in the nhs,i must have just be imagining such a thing. Me n wend have had to rely on the nhs for treatment and monitoring Ann Marie Irene when she was alive, that treatment was nothing short of fantastic ,they went above and beyond what i expected for free. I was in and out of hospital a short while back (damn bastids aliens probed me in places i didn't know existed) ,staff were friendly(i'm not the easiest person to deal with when i'm ill or coming out of an anesthetic) ,food was good ,room was clean etc ,what more could they have done. I feel that peoples expectations are to high ,not only do some want treatment but no matter how well that treatments delivered seem to want to be treated as if they are in a 5 star hotel (dont beat me over the head as i realise that some treatments aren't funded ,and some joke surgeries are) . The blame can't be leveled just at politicians as no matter how much money is given to the nhs more will be required as people get used to the higher standards of care and expect more next time. The blame lays from the top down ,how many fucknuggets do you see with a scratch or a cold waiting to be seen to bypass a visit to the docs ,how many put their greed before their health as they won't visit docs during the day (time off work) but would rather sit in a&e for hours on end costing more. Another thing worth mentioning is the advancement of treatments and diagnosis ,in some instances you can be in and diagnosed within a day or two ,so i suspect some people see this as a failing ,as in been having this problem for years but the hospital vet diagnosed me within an hour etc Access to hospital services depends a lot on your GP if they are old school you tend to get sent to hospital only if accompanied by both of your great ,great great grandparents ,if you have a more modern pro active GP they see the benefit of getting your treated sooner rather than later ,which in turn saves money. you don't tend to see the contracted out services but they are there ,property maintenance is farmed out ,equipment servicing and repair is also mostly contracted out ,it used to be in house a lot of the time ,but since electronics has got more board based ,it's cheaper to get the equipment manufacturer in to do repairs ,it also ensures that the majority of equipment is in A1 condition as oem engineers tend to see a set of products regularly so tend to know things like the life cycle of products what fails and doesn't fail etc, cleaning also tends to be farmed out thats one i disagree with as they take shortcuts, whedreas in the old days the cleaners had to answer to the matron if thing weren't right .
The other big thing is bugs and viruses tend to get more resistant to medication ,no amount of cleaning can help until a product is found to fight em.
So whilst some seem to want more than the nhs can offer ,in the main im well please with the treatment my family have received over the years
Thats why we need a labour goverment,to protect our wonderful health service from greed cash grabbing tories who want to sell it off and privatise it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:01:12 GMT
I know you think everybody is stupid apart from you but i already know facebook shows you stuff that panders to your interests and political bias its bloody obvious,just as bbc and sky news news clearly have an establishment bias so i try to balance all news available. what i tried to say early in this thread is that at last there is a proper socialist labour party for me to vote in line with my political beliefs. The blair years and wishy washy milliband simply mimicked conservatives which to me was pointless. My point was rather that what Facebook is showing you is not just biased it's not news. It's not just not news it's not even true. Saying you balance the BBC bias with Facebook is like saying you balance your diet between eating junk food and eating horse sh**. Thats just you blabbing off your opinions as if your somehow always right. funny really |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:10:03 GMT
"Thats why we need a labour goverment,to protect our wonderful health service from greed cash grabbing tories who want to sell it off and privatise it."
First off, how do you class the NHS as 'wonderful'? Have you ever experienced other health services in other countries? If it is as 'wonderful' as you claim, why do Labour always claim that we have *three weeks/two weeks/six days/24 hrs (*delete where appropriate) to save 'our NHS'? Why is it always in crisis. Even during 13 years of Labour government it was always in crisis? If it is so 'wonderful', why aren't other countries rushing to copy it ?
The NHS desperately needs a total reform, both in the way it is run and the way it is funded.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:10:34 GMT
I initially posted on the thread that although i dislike her politics i agreed that charlotte leslie had indeed been a hands on mp,i met her and had a conversation with her on 2 visits she made to my local football club shirehampton fc. In all my years involved in local football ive never seen a real live mp turn up and discuss a local clubs issue. I only usually discuss politics with a tiny group of people mostly like minded,i dont need to argue politics with right wing supporters as i already know and have known for many years that i believe in a socialist labour party which we finally have[ wilsons goverment is arguably the last time we had this]. Somehow ive got embroiled in arguments with people i have nothing to say to,i watch question time and some mainstream news though its bias sickens me and i follow stuff on facebook. I have been to 2 corbyn rallys the last one at birmingham in a large crowd. I didnt think g97"s post about god made them die was very nice,most of the victims were ethnic minority and many muslim,im pretty sure if if say vince cable had made that statement he would be universally vilified as islam phobic and racist and i would agree with that. All ive seen in recent years is the contracting out of public services to private companies who then spend as little as possible during the contract and compromise safety to maximise profit. Dirty hospitals and badly maintained properties used by would be council tenants 2 examples of this. Just across from the disaster are millionaires appartments with sprinkler systems and much more overall fire safety. Wealthy people can have gold plated taps in their bathroom but they should not be any safer than poor people in my view. This goverments arrogance and their reckless police and fire cuts have now bit them on the backside and they are suddenly not quite so arrogant and disdainful as they were. Mind you they are happy to threaten peace in ireland by getting into bed with the dup. Agree with you on charlotte ,she was the only politician who has stayed during a doorstep conversation even though it din't go her way ,lib dems were told to feck orf ,labour was ok for a few seconds but when the conversation wasn't going their way he walked off Thing is if you(as in everyone only ever talk politics with like minded folk they views tend to be narrowed ,nobody's arguing on this thread more a discussion sometimes a tad heated ,depends on your definition of the right wing, socialism has never worked in any country. Ok i can see where your coming from but dont forget the majority of wilsons policies were just amendments to stuff the liberals had already bought in ,also in wilsons last tenure in office the miners were striking again so it wasn't all as it seemed ,you also have to remember that his successor callaghan got into bed with the welsh and scottish nationalist and also the ulster unionists to get his majority ,also remember that corbyn was in bed with the ira at the time ,so you have 1 party (labour) on both sides weird. I try to watch question time however after a few minutes i feel like throwing an ashtray through the screen ,extremely biased program ,in fact one of the better guests i ever saw on qt was johnny rotten ,spoke more sense in a few minutes than most of the guests for years, mainstream news agree ,bbc is the worst kin hell if they lent any farther to the left they would end up kissing their asses on the right ,one thing that does surprise me is your admission that anyone with it seems a willingness to discuss politics from a differing perspective than your you wouldn't normally speak too. lets look out at your point on g79's post about god comment i will say again there was not one jot of racism in that post and one thing that make me bleed purple pish is people seem to think these days that any thing said against religion is racist ,no one can deny that when someone mentions a certain religion everyone goes on the defensive and cry racist at the top of their voices ,i wish people would wake up and realise the liberal clap trap that equates religion and racism is a fallacy invented moronic liberal wets so they can feel good about themselves ,the other thing is yes the post wasn't very nice but if you look at it with fresh eyes you should be able to see the point he was making and that was ,people use religion as an excuse for everything when it goes their way it's god being rewarding ,when things go wrong it's everyone elses fault ,the thing is it's something i've pondered over since i had my first re lesson , how can one say they believe in a god then when stuff goes wrong it's never gods fault surely thats hypocrisy at the highest level ,quite simply religion was needed at a time when the human race possessed little knowledge and appeased those who wondered why volcanoes erupted etc ,it didn't take long for people to see the absolute control and power it had over it's followers, unbelieveable this control still exists today(and before anyone makes assumptions it's not just one religion most feel this way) . The nhs is top heavy and needs to step back a bit ,matrons need to come back as ward heads cleaners need to be cleaning properly and bleaching everything in sight ,i remember when every hospital had that lovely bleach smell. It's difficult for me to see any link betwixt police cuts and terrorism ,let me explain the terrorists are using dirty tactics ie driving into civilians at random ,random knife murders ,it wouldn't matter if you had one copper every 50 yds on the streets they would still be able to carry out these tasks ,as for corbyn saying talking to em will help .no it wont see if your going to main and kill indiscriminately ,blow yourself up ,die to be martyred ,then no amount of tea swilling with pinkie raised stop it ,the way to stop it would be shoot to maim ,make sure they are wheelchair bound for the rest of their lives destroy their clean hand ,and give them male carers ,that would stop em as it would be totally against all their beliefs living like that ,no martyrdom for them. we are now seeing terrorism on the streets for some it's the first time ,for others like me you can't help but think oh here we go again , and whose to blame this time yup Labour(yeah i know the leader was an egotistical warmongering war criminal) . I was surprised that his mrs didn't do more to stop him after all her dad was a leftie). Going back to your mention of vince cable or any other politician for that matter it cant be disputed that they would be called islamophobic and it genuinely saddens me that they have so much power over the general public ,and for a fact if it had been some of the other religions then no one would have said anything ,it's the same as another religion if you dare say anything about them you get arrested an example if i said the pope was a peado by association or the archbishop was a lady garden then not one eyebrow would be raised. One real problem for me is the way the murder of a muslim is being classed as terrorism ,hear me out ,i said like many others the terrorism laws would be restrictive and a way of rounding up any undesirables ,we seem to be one step closer it's difficult to explain ,some beller tried to carry out a revenge attack ,and should be charged with murder if his actions caused the death of the person who was receiving first aid ,if not then 20 year for being a pleb would suffice. The problem is where this is heading as now say you for example got into a fight with someone who was religious and killed him ,should you be convicted of terrorism or should you be charged with murder ,it's the start of a very slippery slope for abuse of a law as if misused ,it will end up like the laws for football fans ,arrested charged etc ,based on the assumption of one copper(just used as an example to illustrate how corruption of certain laws happen) ,i fear it won't be long until the terrorism laws in this country are akin to the american patriots act ,or even worse the word terrorism becomes just another word we get used to. the flat fire problem is it's easy to apportion blame ,without the full facts being known ,do we go back to the original architect and blame them , do we blame the guy whose flat the fire started in(some already are but at this stage it cant be relied on) ,do we blame europe as the cladding seems to be part of an energy reduction that we signed up to ,did the builders leave too much of an air gap betwixt panels and wall(did the specified gap act as a set of bellows due to the air pressure with it being so high or as a simple chimney possible effects of an air gap)), were the landings cluttered with rubbish as suggested , were fire doors wedged open in communal areas ,were fire doors removed or replaced in flats ,did the windows have those firestop things ,was it arson(my reasoning for this is a tumble drier was blamed too quickly) etc there are way too many variables and assumptions at present. If we look back on housing stock it was a labour government who slowed down building council properties ,and yes maggie has to take some blame for the right to buy scheme(until then people were happy renting ,but now the majority of people want to own a house, even those labour supporters who think theres not enough social housing but they still bought to line their own pockets) ,it's also worth mentioning that successive labour governments have not reversed the majority of tory policies, the reason being that for years labour had struggled to maintain nationalised industry ,and maggie gave them an out . It was obvious that corbyn would garner a larger number of labour seats than others because he went back to the old labour ways ,it was obvious from the moment his party revolted and forced another leadership vote ,funny how some of those who refused to work with him are doing so now ,the problem for me with him apart from being labour is his refusal to press the button if required ,very dangerous policy as they are a deterrent ,if they weren't this country would have been turn't to glass a long time ago ,then theres abbot how can anyone even begin to think of voting for her I know your well meaning with your lengthy arguments but we are so opposed in our views its futile conversing,its like a city fan explaining why i should abandon rovers. Socialism never works?? The post war atlee goverment built many wonderful council houses for working class people and formed the national health service and the welfare state,no conservative goverment can get anywhere near that. The wilson goverment were until near the end of his career a successful one. In france they have had many years of socialist goverment since the war. Good luck following the the greedy conservatives but i will always support the hope for a better and fairer system than a tiny minority of wealthy people getting ever richer at mine and my childrens expense. |
|
|
|
Post by LJG on Jun 20, 2017 18:32:01 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:34:15 GMT
Dont be sucked in by that rubbish,its what they want you to read. |
|
|
|
Post by LJG on Jun 20, 2017 18:35:15 GMT
Dont be sucked in by that rubbish,its what they want you to read. Read? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:47:46 GMT
Agree with you on charlotte ,she was the only politician who has stayed during a doorstep conversation even though it din't go her way ,lib dems were told to feck orf ,labour was ok for a few seconds but when the conversation wasn't going their way he walked off Thing is if you(as in everyone only ever talk politics with like minded folk they views tend to be narrowed ,nobody's arguing on this thread more a discussion sometimes a tad heated ,depends on your definition of the right wing, socialism has never worked in any country. Ok i can see where your coming from but dont forget the majority of wilsons policies were just amendments to stuff the liberals had already bought in ,also in wilsons last tenure in office the miners were striking again so it wasn't all as it seemed ,you also have to remember that his successor callaghan got into bed with the welsh and scottish nationalist and also the ulster unionists to get his majority ,also remember that corbyn was in bed with the ira at the time ,so you have 1 party (labour) on both sides weird. I try to watch question time however after a few minutes i feel like throwing an ashtray through the screen ,extremely biased program ,in fact one of the better guests i ever saw on qt was johnny rotten ,spoke more sense in a few minutes than most of the guests for years, mainstream news agree ,bbc is the worst kin hell if they lent any farther to the left they would end up kissing their asses on the right ,one thing that does surprise me is your admission that anyone with it seems a willingness to discuss politics from a differing perspective than your you wouldn't normally speak too. lets look out at your point on g79's post about god comment i will say again there was not one jot of racism in that post and one thing that make me bleed purple pish is people seem to think these days that any thing said against religion is racist ,no one can deny that when someone mentions a certain religion everyone goes on the defensive and cry racist at the top of their voices ,i wish people would wake up and realise the liberal clap trap that equates religion and racism is a fallacy invented moronic liberal wets so they can feel good about themselves ,the other thing is yes the post wasn't very nice but if you look at it with fresh eyes you should be able to see the point he was making and that was ,people use religion as an excuse for everything when it goes their way it's god being rewarding ,when things go wrong it's everyone elses fault ,the thing is it's something i've pondered over since i had my first re lesson , how can one say they believe in a god then when stuff goes wrong it's never gods fault surely thats hypocrisy at the highest level ,quite simply religion was needed at a time when the human race possessed little knowledge and appeased those who wondered why volcanoes erupted etc ,it didn't take long for people to see the absolute control and power it had over it's followers, unbelieveable this control still exists today(and before anyone makes assumptions it's not just one religion most feel this way) . The nhs is top heavy and needs to step back a bit ,matrons need to come back as ward heads cleaners need to be cleaning properly and bleaching everything in sight ,i remember when every hospital had that lovely bleach smell. It's difficult for me to see any link betwixt police cuts and terrorism ,let me explain the terrorists are using dirty tactics ie driving into civilians at random ,random knife murders ,it wouldn't matter if you had one copper every 50 yds on the streets they would still be able to carry out these tasks ,as for corbyn saying talking to em will help .no it wont see if your going to main and kill indiscriminately ,blow yourself up ,die to be martyred ,then no amount of tea swilling with pinkie raised stop it ,the way to stop it would be shoot to maim ,make sure they are wheelchair bound for the rest of their lives destroy their clean hand ,and give them male carers ,that would stop em as it would be totally against all their beliefs living like that ,no martyrdom for them. we are now seeing terrorism on the streets for some it's the first time ,for others like me you can't help but think oh here we go again , and whose to blame this time yup Labour(yeah i know the leader was an egotistical warmongering war criminal) . I was surprised that his mrs didn't do more to stop him after all her dad was a leftie). Going back to your mention of vince cable or any other politician for that matter it cant be disputed that they would be called islamophobic and it genuinely saddens me that they have so much power over the general public ,and for a fact if it had been some of the other religions then no one would have said anything ,it's the same as another religion if you dare say anything about them you get arrested an example if i said the pope was a peado by association or the archbishop was a lady garden then not one eyebrow would be raised. One real problem for me is the way the murder of a muslim is being classed as terrorism ,hear me out ,i said like many others the terrorism laws would be restrictive and a way of rounding up any undesirables ,we seem to be one step closer it's difficult to explain ,some beller tried to carry out a revenge attack ,and should be charged with murder if his actions caused the death of the person who was receiving first aid ,if not then 20 year for being a pleb would suffice. The problem is where this is heading as now say you for example got into a fight with someone who was religious and killed him ,should you be convicted of terrorism or should you be charged with murder ,it's the start of a very slippery slope for abuse of a law as if misused ,it will end up like the laws for football fans ,arrested charged etc ,based on the assumption of one copper(just used as an example to illustrate how corruption of certain laws happen) ,i fear it won't be long until the terrorism laws in this country are akin to the american patriots act ,or even worse the word terrorism becomes just another word we get used to. the flat fire problem is it's easy to apportion blame ,without the full facts being known ,do we go back to the original architect and blame them , do we blame the guy whose flat the fire started in(some already are but at this stage it cant be relied on) ,do we blame europe as the cladding seems to be part of an energy reduction that we signed up to ,did the builders leave too much of an air gap betwixt panels and wall(did the specified gap act as a set of bellows due to the air pressure with it being so high or as a simple chimney possible effects of an air gap)), were the landings cluttered with rubbish as suggested , were fire doors wedged open in communal areas ,were fire doors removed or replaced in flats ,did the windows have those firestop things ,was it arson(my reasoning for this is a tumble drier was blamed too quickly) etc there are way too many variables and assumptions at present. If we look back on housing stock it was a labour government who slowed down building council properties ,and yes maggie has to take some blame for the right to buy scheme(until then people were happy renting ,but now the majority of people want to own a house, even those labour supporters who think theres not enough social housing but they still bought to line their own pockets) ,it's also worth mentioning that successive labour governments have not reversed the majority of tory policies, the reason being that for years labour had struggled to maintain nationalised industry ,and maggie gave them an out . It was obvious that corbyn would garner a larger number of labour seats than others because he went back to the old labour ways ,it was obvious from the moment his party revolted and forced another leadership vote ,funny how some of those who refused to work with him are doing so now ,the problem for me with him apart from being labour is his refusal to press the button if required ,very dangerous policy as they are a deterrent ,if they weren't this country would have been turn't to glass a long time ago ,then theres abbot how can anyone even begin to think of voting for her I know your well meaning with your lengthy arguments but we are so opposed in our views its futile conversing,its like a city fan explaining why i should abandon rovers. Socialism never works?? The post war atlee goverment built many wonderful council houses for working class people and formed the national health service and the welfare state,no conservative goverment can get anywhere near that. The wilson goverment were until near the end of his career a successful one. In france they have had many years of socialist goverment since the war. Good luck following the the greedy conservatives but i will always support the hope for a better and fairer system than a tiny minority of wealthy people getting ever richer at mine and my childrens expense. Ha, ha, you're funny. What did the recent election show us? It is the Labour voters who are the greedy ones. 'Free free free for me me me' should be their catchphrase! Good God, you are using the Wilson government and France to support your argument! and no, Socialism never works ! It's just the politics of envy. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:51:54 GMT
Keep it going guys!
There's some cracking reading here.
I'm interested in the bit about rich people getting richer. Do they get poorer under Labour then? Hahaha.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:01:36 GMT
Keep it going guys! There's some cracking reading here. I'm interested in the bit about rich people getting richer. Do they get poorer under Labour then? Hahaha. We're still trying to figure out how he manages to read a Podcast! |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2017 19:31:07 GMT
Keep it going guys! There's some cracking reading here. I'm interested in the bit about rich people getting richer. Do they get poorer under Labour then? Hahaha. No they just get rich a bit slower. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2017 19:33:27 GMT
Hugo - Why is Brexit making it worse? Many gaps in nursing that were filled by EU migrant workers are not being post Brexit as people start to return "home". |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:53:51 GMT
Hugo - Why is Brexit making it worse? Many gaps in nursing that were filled by EU migrant workers are not being post Brexit as people start to return "home". If people are returning 'home', then that is nothing to do with Brexit! That is their own personal decision. Nothing to do with Brexit at all. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2017 20:17:14 GMT
Many gaps in nursing that were filled by EU migrant workers are not being post Brexit as people start to return "home". If people are returning 'home', then that is nothing to do with Brexit! That is their own personal decision. Nothing to do with Brexit at all. They are leaving the UK to return to Europe. Applications for vacant nursing positions from EU nurses is down 97% post Brexit and 1 in every 7 nursing vacancies are currently unfilled. |
|
,one thing that does surprise me is your admission that anyone with it seems a willingness to discuss politics from a differing perspective than your you wouldn't normally speak too.
