Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 20:59:51 GMT
That in no way compares to the Great Depression. It's a totally different thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Jun 22, 2017 21:18:36 GMT
QE does not increase government spending. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury did in fact leave a note when Labour were kicked out. I do believe it said something like, "Sorry, but we've spent all the money. There is nothing left".......or words to that effect. You have to stop issuing debt at some point. Are you aware that at the moment, the interest alone that we pay on our current debt is more than we spend on Defence and Education combined! Ha, explain to me how QE is not government spending? It's a branch of government spending money to buy gilts. The difference, to the real economy? It's also the only thing that has kept gilt yields positive. Think of that, UK debt so in demand that we are able to create money out of fresh air, without yields going through the roof! But monetary policy only takes you so far, of course. |
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Jun 22, 2017 21:24:37 GMT
No, more like what FDR did to end the Great Depression But we are not in a 'Great Depression' ? Not my point. There's nothing wrong with government intervention when the clear flaws in capitalism raise thier heads. It's happened here, in the US a number of times (Standard Oil, AT&T) , and the New Deal was similarly an attempt to redress an equality imbalance following austerity. Just as now. Even Adam Smith recognised the need. |
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Jun 22, 2017 21:46:58 GMT
QE does not increase government spending. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury did in fact leave a note when Labour were kicked out. I do believe it said something like, "Sorry, but we've spent all the money. There is nothing left".......or words to that effect. You have to stop issuing debt at some point. Are you aware that at the moment, the interest alone that we pay on our current debt is more than we spend on Defence and Education combined! BTW, interest payments are not excessive. Historically, as a percentage of overall spending, they are rather low. fullfact.org/economy/interest-payments-national-debt/ |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 1:10:20 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before.
But what an eye opener!!
as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters.
How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite.
No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen.
At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers.
Very very sad
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 5:20:01 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before. But what an eye opener!! as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters. How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite. No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen. At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers. Very very sad A rose tinted view of history here. |
|
|
|
Post by William Wilson on Jun 23, 2017 6:42:55 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before. But what an eye opener!! as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters. How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite. No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen. At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers. Very very sad A rose tinted view of history here. It is a bit. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 8:22:08 GMT
A rose tinted view of history here. It is a bit. I have never understood this view that "Class" is somehow "bricked in" and peoples lives do not evolve across the generations. Completely understand the attraction of socialism when conditions were as they were pre WW2, and the "system" and education maintained the status quo. But, thankfully, a lot has changed and the argument has evolved, in my opinion. That we have a terrible income distribution problem in the UK, is obvious. The problem this causes are exacerbated by the economic policies of the last 7 years but are not resolved by a lurch to the diametric opposite, as BB is supporting. There is a need for a sensible debate on how we distribute the wealth of the country equitably, and no that doesn't mean taxing the rich to death. In my opinion |
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Jun 23, 2017 9:06:40 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before. But what an eye opener!! as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters. How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite. No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen. At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers. Very very sad I know what you are saying, but I can't agree. Your idea that all Tory voters are part of the prawn sandwich brigade is way off the mark. There has always been working class tory voters.
A lot of my friends are from working class backgrounds, as am I, and a lot of my friends are Tory voters. They worry about their jobs, their safety, and protection of their way of life. They are essentially change adverse, and instinctively see Labour as radical and risky, and the Tories as safe. They don't trust Labour to handle the economy, or be strong enough on security and immigration. This must be due to the right wing bias of the working class media, who deliberately generate fear in people - and when people are afraid, they tend to edge to the right.
However, a highly media savvy, centre ground party won a lot of these people over in the late 90s.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 9:07:59 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before. But what an eye opener!! as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters. How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite. No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen. At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers. Very very sad Eh? A bit ott. Is it just crowds that have changed? Or maybe the players, stadiums, media etc etc etc. You are stuck in the past dude. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 9:14:18 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before. But what an eye opener!! as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters. How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite. No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen. At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers. Very very sad I know what you are saying, but I can't agree. Your idea that all Tory voters are part of the prawn sandwich brigade is way off the mark. There has always been working class tory voters.
A lot of my friends are from working class backgrounds, as am I, and a lot of my friends are Tory voters. They worry about their jobs, their safety, and protection of their way of life. They are essentially change adverse, and instinctively see Labour as radical and risky, and the Tories as safe. They don't trust Labour to handle the economy, or be strong enough on security and immigration. This must be due to the right wing bias of the working class media, who deliberately generate fear in people - and when people are afraid, they tend to edge to the right.
However, a highly media savvy, centre ground party won a lot of these people over in the late 90s.
Precisely |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 9:55:32 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before. But what an eye opener!! as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters. How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite. No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen. At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers. Very very sad I know what you are saying, but I can't agree. Your idea that all Tory voters are part of the prawn sandwich brigade is way off the mark. There has always been working class tory voters.
A lot of my friends are from working class backgrounds, as am I, and a lot of my friends are Tory voters. They worry about their jobs, their safety, and protection of their way of life. They are essentially change adverse, and instinctively see Labour as radical and risky, and the Tories as safe. They don't trust Labour to handle the economy, or be strong enough on security and immigration. This must be due to the right wing bias of the working class media, who deliberately generate fear in people - and when people are afraid, they tend to edge to the right.
However, a highly media savvy, centre ground party won a lot of these people over in the late 90s.
Im aware that my post was very simplistic,a lot of tory voters hate prawns for a start!  |
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Jun 23, 2017 10:02:31 GMT
I know what you are saying, but I can't agree. Your idea that all Tory voters are part of the prawn sandwich brigade is way off the mark. There has always been working class tory voters.
A lot of my friends are from working class backgrounds, as am I, and a lot of my friends are Tory voters. They worry about their jobs, their safety, and protection of their way of life. They are essentially change adverse, and instinctively see Labour as radical and risky, and the Tories as safe. They don't trust Labour to handle the economy, or be strong enough on security and immigration. This must be due to the right wing bias of the working class media, who deliberately generate fear in people - and when people are afraid, they tend to edge to the right.
However, a highly media savvy, centre ground party won a lot of these people over in the late 90s.
Im aware that my post was very simplistic,a lot of tory voters hate prawns for a start! I can't accept that anybody hates prawns.
There's an interesting breakdown on how people voted in the GE here: yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/
"As noted at the start of the campaign, the class divide in British politics seems to have closed and it is no longer a very good indicator of voting intention."
|
|
|
|
Post by William Wilson on Jun 23, 2017 11:27:50 GMT
I have never understood this view that "Class" is somehow "bricked in" and peoples lives do not evolve across the generations. Completely understand the attraction of socialism when conditions were as they were pre WW2, and the "system" and education maintained the status quo. But, thankfully, a lot has changed and the argument has evolved, in my opinion. That we have a terrible income distribution problem in the UK, is obvious. The problem this causes are exacerbated by the economic policies of the last 7 years but are not resolved by a lurch to the diametric opposite, as BB is supporting. There is a need for a sensible debate on how we distribute the wealth of the country equitably, and no that doesn't mean taxing the rich to death. In my opinion I don`t accept that there is a " terrible income distribution problem in the UK ". I`ve seen worse abroad. Far worse. And not just in the usual suspect, third world countries, either. Even in Honululu, I came across a tent city, with poverty the like of which you wouldn`t see in this country. If you want to change the income gap that does exist in this country; well, good luck with that. You use words like " sensible " and "equitably", as if it were blindingly obvious what those two words meant, with regard to the economy. But you could put six university educated economists in a room together, and it`s entirely likely that they`d disagree sharply, with what is sensible and equitable, to take this country forward economically. And now I`m off to work, to do my bit for good old Blighty. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 12:01:59 GMT
I have never understood this view that "Class" is somehow "bricked in" and peoples lives do not evolve across the generations. Completely understand the attraction of socialism when conditions were as they were pre WW2, and the "system" and education maintained the status quo. But, thankfully, a lot has changed and the argument has evolved, in my opinion. That we have a terrible income distribution problem in the UK, is obvious. The problem this causes are exacerbated by the economic policies of the last 7 years but are not resolved by a lurch to the diametric opposite, as BB is supporting. There is a need for a sensible debate on how we distribute the wealth of the country equitably, and no that doesn't mean taxing the rich to death. In my opinion I don`t accept that there is a " terrible income distribution problem in the UK ". I`ve seen worse abroad. Far worse. And not just in the usual suspect, third world countries, either. Even in Honululu, I came across a tent city, with poverty the like of which you wouldn`t see in this country. If you want to change the income gap that does exist in this country; well, good luck with that. You use words like " sensible " and "equitably", as if it were blindingly obvious what those two words meant, with regard to the economy. But you could put six university educated economists in a room together, and it`s entirely likely that they`d disagree sharply, with what is sensible and equitable, to take this country forward economically. And now I`m off to work, to do my bit for good old Blighty. This is not a "Holier than thou" international comparison Its about income distribution to a level that allows basic necessities to be afforded. Like Housing, to name but one issue. |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jun 23, 2017 14:04:47 GMT
Ive never bothered with general chat or political stuff on here before. But what an eye opener!! as a child i stood on the terraces with my dad,all working people who stood for working values and were all strong trade union supporters and of course labour party voters. How times have changed and how football crowds have moved from ordinary working class people to the rather precious prawn sandwich brigade that now frequent our terraces and actually support the upper class eton toffs that look down on all but the wealthy elite. No wonder so many on here are desperate for a new ground so they can sit in there £500 a season seat and thank there lucky stars that no working class scum are anywhere to be seen. At chelsea i couldnt quite work out what had happened to chelsea fans but now i get it and its happening at bristol rovers. Very very sad Eye opener indeed ,especially those who post and then never discuss counter posts  As a babber i stood on the Tote and i can't think of a time when it was just labour supporters on the crowd . Strong trade union supporters ,you mean sheep led from the far left who held the country to ransom(as wilson saw when he ran away and handed over to callaghan ) .those strong trade unionists who destroyed union power by thinking they could hold the labour government to ransom ,the same strong trade unions who got greedy and disrupted the country for more than the government (labour) had negotiated on pay rises ,the same union member who by their actions lost new members and in all probability drove many traditional labour supporters to vote elsewhere . Crowds haven't moved away from working class ,rather a lot of people now class themselves as middle class and now have the disposable income to afford a season ticket with a seat ,many still class themselves as working class and buy a season ticket through hard work and saving. Working class scum really take a good long sip from the cup off grow the f**k up ,thanks for classing many of us scum , new ground i would prefer to stay put as not being able to stand is going to do me swede in. why do i dislike labour ,well dad was a feckin commie hassled by the law all the time ,labour voter till the day he died ,shop steward who believed the sh**e spouted by the far left ,he fought for everyone else and like many at the bottom ended up getting the rough end of the deal whilst those he fought for got more, so yup i've seen what so called working class values has done to families. From your post you appears self employed and self sufficient ,because surely your views and principles will not allow you to work for a company as the owner will be wealthier than you ,it's easy to say i hate the rich but then surely that becomes hypocritical if you work for someone wealthier than you. |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jun 23, 2017 14:11:37 GMT
Im aware that my post was very simplistic,a lot of tory voters hate prawns for a start! I can't accept that anybody hates prawns.
There's an interesting breakdown on how people voted in the GE here: yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/
"As noted at the start of the campaign, the class divide in British politics seems to have closed and it is no longer a very good indicator of voting intention."
that chart is interesting as it corresponds with what i believe and that is youngsters will vote labour as they believe they will be better off for less effort ,however once they get a bit older the realise the lie and change sides to keep more of what they earn . As for prawns they are carved from the devils arse grapes and people who eat them should be forced to watch the teds every week |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jun 23, 2017 14:26:28 GMT
You mean like Mao did in China, or Stalin in Russia, or should we look at a more recent version of these methods you claim to be good, like Venezuela? How are things going over there? No, more like what FDR did to end the Great Depression On the other hand what would have happened if he hadn't repealed prohibition and the war never happened ,a lot of money came in to the us from countries buying arms and munitions from the us |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 15:17:09 GMT
No, more like what FDR did to end the Great Depression On the other hand what would have happened if he hadn't repealed prohibition and the war never happened ,a lot of money came in to the us from countries buying arms and munitions from the us That is one of the great unanswered questions. Did LBJ's reforms really end the Great Depression, or was it WW2? We'll never know for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by faggotygas on Jun 23, 2017 15:42:52 GMT
On the other hand what would have happened if he hadn't repealed prohibition and the war never happened ,a lot of money came in to the us from countries buying arms and munitions from the us That is one of the great unanswered questions. Did LBJ's reforms really end the Great Depression, or was it WW2? We'll never know for sure. War is just another example of government spending on large scale projects and government intervention in markets improving the economy. Discuss! |
|
