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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 24, 2018 19:35:07 GMT
But don't you have to own something first to put investment in? Surely you have contradicted yourself there. You have put money into the club so your business can profit from it (ie. Advertising)and yet you don't own the club. Is that not investment? My business doesn’t profit from it, if I was looking to profit from marketing my business the last place I would do it is the Mem. £100 spent with Facebook advertising would get me a better return. I do it to put something back into the club I support. Advertising my business is investing in my business, Not investing in Bristol Rovers football club. A hoarding at the stadium is no different to an ad in a newspaper. I’ve done that too. But that isn’t me investing in the Bristol Evening post.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 24, 2018 19:46:16 GMT
Surely you have contradicted yourself there. You have put money into the club so your business can profit from it (ie. Advertising)and yet you don't own the club. Is that not investment? My business doesn’t profit from it, if I was looking to profit from marketing my business the last place I would do it is the Mem. £100 spent with Facebook advertising would get me a better return. I do it to put something back into the club I support. Advertising my business is investing in my business, Not investing in Bristol Rovers football club. A hoarding at the stadium is no different to an ad in a newspaper. I’ve done that too. But that isn’t me investing in the Bristol Evening post. If you have put in £10K with no tangible return then you've probably put more money into the club than some former Directors!! Even the ALQ's are charging interest on their "investment". Do you reckon if we manage to get this thread to 100 pages we might get a stadium update from Wael?
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Post by peterparker on Jan 24, 2018 19:59:02 GMT
My business doesn’t profit from it, if I was looking to profit from marketing my business the last place I would do it is the Mem. £100 spent with Facebook advertising would get me a better return. I do it to put something back into the club I support. Advertising my business is investing in my business, Not investing in Bristol Rovers football club. A hoarding at the stadium is no different to an ad in a newspaper. I’ve done that too. But that isn’t me investing in the Bristol Evening post. If you have put in £10K with no tangible return then you've probably put more money into the club than some former Directors!! Even the ALQ's are charging interest on their "investment". Do you reckon if we manage to get this thread to 100 pages we might get a stadium update from Wael? Ah the old charging interest argument. One that doesnt mean anything until the actually take it. The ex directors accrued interest on their loans, google Vincent Tan interest. i am sure you will find many more examples of a common practice
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 24, 2018 21:07:09 GMT
Our chairman should know the difference between investment and collateral spend. Some of us do put more than our season tickets into the club financially Bideford, which is why some of us question our owners motives than others. Ive put in 10k this year in stadium advertising and hospitality sponsorship. If I had a a fair few million more, I would give it a good go!! I applaud you for your support of our club, however please don't assume my only support for the club over the last sixty one years is by buying a season ticket. Sometimes I wish it was. He also buys a pasty. And occasionally a pint.
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Post by toddy1953 on Jan 24, 2018 21:35:54 GMT
Whatever we call it, am I right in saying that the ALQ's have spent £12m of their own money? If so then I guess they have spent their money by..... 1 buying the club 2 paying off ex directors 3 paying off the Wonga Loan 4 buying the land for the training ground 5 any costs associated with buying land & also 18 months of costs associated with the ill fated UWE deal 6 costs of running a loss making football club for two years, including new scoreboard, re-laying the pitch etc.
If this is the case, then quite rightly to protect the money they have spent, they have put a charge against the Mem & also charge nominal interest on the 'loan'. I accept that when Wael says he is here for the long term, he means it. However, if we are up to £12m against an asset worth £15-£20m & ALQ's continue to lend the club ££ against the Mem value, then my questions would be 1. How long before we exceed the value of the Mem? 2. Will the ALQ's continue to fund & if so how will this work? 3. How will this affect redevelopment of the Mem? ( Will we be able to attract investment? Will we only be able to build say one stand every 5 years? ) 4. Although DC wants a new training ground, is spending £2m on this really the right thing to do at this moment in time. I have not run any businesses myself (leaving myself wide open here to some adverse comments - don't worry I am thick skinned ) and there are probably lots of other questions the ALQ's are asking themselves. However, NH once said of the original UWE deal, we would be debt free when we moved there, that was open to lots of debates on forums, most doubting his credibility, putting it mildly. Said before, but I really think the owners must share their plans going forward, whether we like it or not & they need to do this by mid year IMO
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Post by LJG on Jan 25, 2018 7:40:42 GMT
I applaud you for your support of our club, however please don't assume my only support for the club over the last sixty one years is by buying a season ticket. Sometimes I wish it was. He also buys a pasty. And occasionally a pint. But he also reads his mate's programme instead of buying his own and for that reason will never be a true gashead.
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Post by philbemmygas on Jan 25, 2018 7:56:07 GMT
I applaud you for your support of our club, however please don't assume my only support for the club over the last sixty one years is by buying a season ticket. Sometimes I wish it was. He also buys a pasty. And occasionally a pint. Don't you mean Kev buys him a pint?
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Post by peterparker on Jan 25, 2018 8:20:47 GMT
Whatever we call it, am I right in saying that the ALQ's have spent £12m of their own money? If so then I guess they have spent their money by..... 1 buying the club 2 paying off ex directors 3 paying off the Wonga Loan 4 buying the land for the training ground 5 any costs associated with buying land & also 18 months of costs associated with the ill fated UWE deal 6 costs of running a loss making football club for two years, including new scoreboard, re-laying the pitch etc. If this is the case, then quite rightly to protect the money they have spent, they have put a charge against the Mem & also charge nominal interest on the 'loan'. I accept that when Wael says he is here for the long term, he means it. However, if we are up to £12m against an asset worth £15-£20m & ALQ's continue to lend the club ££ against the Mem value, then my questions would be 1. How long before we exceed the value of the Mem? 2. Will the ALQ's continue to fund & if so how will this work? 3. How will this affect redevelopment of the Mem? ( Will we be able to attract investment? Will we only be able to build say one stand every 5 years? ) 4. Although DC wants a new training ground, is spending £2m on this really the right thing to do at this moment in time. I have not run any businesses myself (leaving myself wide open here to some adverse comments - don't worry I am thick skinned ) and there are probably lots of other questions the ALQ's are asking themselves. However, NH once said of the original UWE deal, we would be debt free when we moved there, that was open to lots of debates on forums, most doubting his credibility, putting it mildly. Said before, but I really think the owners must share their plans going forward, whether we like it or not & they need to do this by mid year IMO We have to wait and see there isn't much else we can do.
I don't have a problem with anyone questioning the owners or what their plans are. What I do have a is the half arsed assumption based on people's own interpretations with no actual evidence and some ITK information probably garnered from people who don't have a channel into the brains of Dwane Sports and their motives/Business Plans
Loaning money and securing it against The Mem is not evidence of anything other than what it is. It does not mean when they reach that value they will stop loaning or putting money into the club. Likewise accruing interest is not actually evidence of them taking money until they actually do so
In all these assumptions some people make, we hear Hani doesn't want to spend money, but is apparently prepared to sanction a of spend £2m on 4 pitches and a portakabin or whatever at The Colony, which would go against the apparent limit people believe there is against The Mem.
That may all be true, but it until it happens, there is actually no evidence that is what they are doing. Maybe the will convert some loan to equity, maybe some interest will be written off in the next accounts. Perhaps they will make further unsecured loans over and above the value of The Mem
It would be interesting to note that Sheikh Mansour LOANED £300m to Manchester City before writing it off, Vincent Tan LOANS/LOANED money, accrued interest to Cardiff before writing it off.
Wolves wealthy Chinese owners? took over and LOANED £21m to the club
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Post by thomas on Jan 25, 2018 8:47:34 GMT
Surely you have contradicted yourself there. You have put money into the club so your business can profit from it (ie. Advertising)and yet you don't own the club. Is that not investment? My business doesn’t profit from it, if I was looking to profit from marketing my business the last place I would do it is the Mem. £100 spent with Facebook advertising would get me a better return. I do it to put something back into the club I support. Advertising my business is investing in my business, Not investing in Bristol Rovers football club. A hoarding at the stadium is no different to an ad in a newspaper. I’ve done that too. But that isn’t me investing in the Bristol Evening post. Hi GH1981, what is your business? I too advertise at the Mem, and have a hospitality package and I do it for the love of the club. ( is that sad? ) I can't see many people phoning up my company for a hydraulic pump. Bob A B Fluid Power Ltd
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Post by gregsy on Jan 25, 2018 8:58:43 GMT
My business doesn’t profit from it, if I was looking to profit from marketing my business the last place I would do it is the Mem. £100 spent with Facebook advertising would get me a better return. I do it to put something back into the club I support. Advertising my business is investing in my business, Not investing in Bristol Rovers football club. A hoarding at the stadium is no different to an ad in a newspaper. I’ve done that too. But that isn’t me investing in the Bristol Evening post. Hi GH1981, what is your business? I too advertise at the Mem, and have a hospitality package and I do it for the love of the club. ( is that sad? ) I can't see many people phoning up my company for a hydraulic pump. Bob A B Fluid Power Ltd The advertising does work, I mean, if ever I needed some electro-pneumatic components, you'd be first on my list
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 25, 2018 9:15:13 GMT
Whatever we call it, am I right in saying that the ALQ's have spent £12m of their own money? If so then I guess they have spent their money by..... 1 buying the club 2 paying off ex directors 3 paying off the Wonga Loan 4 buying the land for the training ground 5 any costs associated with buying land & also 18 months of costs associated with the ill fated UWE deal 6 costs of running a loss making football club for two years, including new scoreboard, re-laying the pitch etc. If this is the case, then quite rightly to protect the money they have spent, they have put a charge against the Mem & also charge nominal interest on the 'loan'. I accept that when Wael says he is here for the long term, he means it. However, if we are up to £12m against an asset worth £15-£20m & ALQ's continue to lend the club ££ against the Mem value, then my questions would be 1. How long before we exceed the value of the Mem? 2. Will the ALQ's continue to fund & if so how will this work? 3. How will this affect redevelopment of the Mem? ( Will we be able to attract investment? Will we only be able to build say one stand every 5 years? ) 4. Although DC wants a new training ground, is spending £2m on this really the right thing to do at this moment in time. I have not run any businesses myself (leaving myself wide open here to some adverse comments - don't worry I am thick skinned ) and there are probably lots of other questions the ALQ's are asking themselves. However, NH once said of the original UWE deal, we would be debt free when we moved there, that was open to lots of debates on forums, most doubting his credibility, putting it mildly. Said before, but I really think the owners must share their plans going forward, whether we like it or not & they need to do this by mid year IMO We have to wait and see there isn't much else we can do.
I don't have a problem with anyone questioning the owners or what their plans are. What I do have a is the half arsed assumption based on people's own interpretations with no actual evidence and some ITK information probably garnered from people who don't have a channel into the brains of Dwane Sports and their motives/Business Plans
Loaning money and securing it against The Mem is not evidence of anything other than what it is. It does not mean when they reach that value they will stop loaning or putting money into the club. Likewise accruing interest is not actually evidence of them taking money until they actually do so
In all these assumptions some people make, we hear Hani doesn't want to spend money, but is apparently prepared to sanction a of spend £2m on 4 pitches and a portakabin or whatever at The Colony, which would go against the apparent limit people believe there is against The Mem.
That may all be true, but it until it happens, there is actually no evidence that is what they are doing. Maybe the will convert some loan to equity, maybe some interest will be written off in the next accounts. Perhaps they will make further unsecured loans over and above the value of The Mem
It would be interesting to note that Sheikh Mansour LOANED £300m to Manchester City before writing it off, Vincent Tan LOANS/LOANED money, accrued interest to Cardiff before writing it off.
Wolves wealthy Chinese owners? took over and LOANED £21m to the club
I think you've got your wires crossed as there's no way DS can take out a charge for the cost of The Colony against the Mem value, given one is owned by BRFC1883 the other, seemingly, owned directly by another company owned by the ALQ's. Why they are not both owned by BRFC1883 only the ALQ's can answer. The critical would say so they can charge us a decent annual rent for using the ground, but if they did that would hit DC's salary cap even harder, another DS mystery to add to the list. As far as Man C etc their owner, like Landsdown, are wealthy billionaires with too much money, our owners seem to be just millionaires with limited finances, or that's the impression they like to give.
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 25, 2018 9:34:30 GMT
Whatever we call it, am I right in saying that the ALQ's have spent £12m of their own money? If so then I guess they have spent their money by..... 1 buying the club 2 paying off ex directors 3 paying off the Wonga Loan 4 buying the land for the training ground 5 any costs associated with buying land & also 18 months of costs associated with the ill fated UWE deal 6 costs of running a loss making football club for two years, including new scoreboard, re-laying the pitch etc. If this is the case, then quite rightly to protect the money they have spent, they have put a charge against the Mem & also charge nominal interest on the 'loan'. I accept that when Wael says he is here for the long term, he means it. However, if we are up to £12m against an asset worth £15-£20m & ALQ's continue to lend the club ££ against the Mem value, then my questions would be 1. How long before we exceed the value of the Mem? 2. Will the ALQ's continue to fund & if so how will this work? 3. How will this affect redevelopment of the Mem? ( Will we be able to attract investment? Will we only be able to build say one stand every 5 years? ) 4. Although DC wants a new training ground, is spending £2m on this really the right thing to do at this moment in time. I have not run any businesses myself (leaving myself wide open here to some adverse comments - don't worry I am thick skinned ) and there are probably lots of other questions the ALQ's are asking themselves. However, NH once said of the original UWE deal, we would be debt free when we moved there, that was open to lots of debates on forums, most doubting his credibility, putting it mildly. Said before, but I really think the owners must share their plans going forward, whether we like it or not & they need to do this by mid year IMOSpot on. Was always disappointed that the UWE fell through but if it wasn’t right then it wasn’t right and I can understand that. The big failure was that there appeared to be no plan B. They would have known it was about to go wrong and they should have had a fall back plan. 6 months later we are still waiting to hear anything more than “redevelop the Mem.” I want to hear their ideas, their vision and I’m old enough to be able to take bad news as well because without any news rumours fills the gap that they are leaving. Tell us their ideas even if we aren’t going to like them. UTG!
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Post by peterparker on Jan 25, 2018 9:44:56 GMT
We have to wait and see there isn't much else we can do.
I don't have a problem with anyone questioning the owners or what their plans are. What I do have a is the half arsed assumption based on people's own interpretations with no actual evidence and some ITK information probably garnered from people who don't have a channel into the brains of Dwane Sports and their motives/Business Plans
Loaning money and securing it against The Mem is not evidence of anything other than what it is. It does not mean when they reach that value they will stop loaning or putting money into the club. Likewise accruing interest is not actually evidence of them taking money until they actually do so
In all these assumptions some people make, we hear Hani doesn't want to spend money, but is apparently prepared to sanction a of spend £2m on 4 pitches and a portakabin or whatever at The Colony, which would go against the apparent limit people believe there is against The Mem.
That may all be true, but it until it happens, there is actually no evidence that is what they are doing. Maybe the will convert some loan to equity, maybe some interest will be written off in the next accounts. Perhaps they will make further unsecured loans over and above the value of The Mem
It would be interesting to note that Sheikh Mansour LOANED £300m to Manchester City before writing it off, Vincent Tan LOANS/LOANED money, accrued interest to Cardiff before writing it off.
Wolves wealthy Chinese owners? took over and LOANED £21m to the club
I think you've got your wires crossed as there's no way DS can take out a charge for the cost of The Colony against the Mem value, given one is owned by BRFC1883 the other, seemingly, owned directly by another company owned by the ALQ's. Why they are not both owned by BRFC1883 only the ALQ's can answer. The critical would say so they can charge us a decent annual rent for using the ground, but if they did that would hit DC's salary cap even harder, another DS mystery to add to the list. As far as Man C etc their owner, like Landsdown, are wealthy billionaires with too much money, our owners seem to be just millionaires with limited finances, or that's the impression they like to give. no what I am saying is that allegedly/apparently the money for The Colony is coming from The Credit facility loaned to 1883Ltd as 1883Ltd will be paying the bill relating to it. The credit limit that is apparently fast running out before The Al-Qadi-s run of to the sunset after selling The Mem to get their money back or so the story goes
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Post by peterparker on Jan 25, 2018 10:34:35 GMT
Whatever we call it, am I right in saying that the ALQ's have spent £12m of their own money? If so then I guess they have spent their money by..... 1 buying the club 2 paying off ex directors 3 paying off the Wonga Loan 4 buying the land for the training ground 5 any costs associated with buying land & also 18 months of costs associated with the ill fated UWE deal 6 costs of running a loss making football club for two years, including new scoreboard, re-laying the pitch etc. If this is the case, then quite rightly to protect the money they have spent, they have put a charge against the Mem & also charge nominal interest on the 'loan'. I accept that when Wael says he is here for the long term, he means it. However, if we are up to £12m against an asset worth £15-£20m & ALQ's continue to lend the club ££ against the Mem value, then my questions would be 1. How long before we exceed the value of the Mem? 2. Will the ALQ's continue to fund & if so how will this work? 3. How will this affect redevelopment of the Mem? ( Will we be able to attract investment? Will we only be able to build say one stand every 5 years? ) 4. Although DC wants a new training ground, is spending £2m on this really the right thing to do at this moment in time. I have not run any businesses myself (leaving myself wide open here to some adverse comments - don't worry I am thick skinned ) and there are probably lots of other questions the ALQ's are asking themselves. However, NH once said of the original UWE deal, we would be debt free when we moved there, that was open to lots of debates on forums, most doubting his credibility, putting it mildly. Said before, but I really think the owners must share their plans going forward, whether we like it or not & they need to do this by mid year IMOSpot on. Was always disappointed that the UWE fell through but if it wasn’t right then it wasn’t right and I can understand that. The big failure was that there appeared to be no plan B. They would have known it was about to go wrong and they should have had a fall back plan. 6 months later we are still waiting to hear anything more than “redevelop the Mem.” I want to hear their ideas, their vision and I’m old enough to be able to take bad news as well because without any news rumours fills the gap that they are leaving. Tell us their ideas even if we aren’t going to like them. UTG! Maybe something The SC and our fans director could press the owners about
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Post by knowall on Jan 25, 2018 10:52:47 GMT
Spot on. Was always disappointed that the UWE fell through but if it wasn’t right then it wasn’t right and I can understand that. The big failure was that there appeared to be no plan B. They would have known it was about to go wrong and they should have had a fall back plan. 6 months later we are still waiting to hear anything more than “redevelop the Mem.” I want to hear their ideas, their vision and I’m old enough to be able to take bad news as well because without any news rumours fills the gap that they are leaving. Tell us their ideas even if we aren’t going to like them. UTG! Maybe something The SC and our fans director could press the owners about Try asking the SC and fans director because they already have information on the way forward and are being briefed
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Post by lpgas on Jan 25, 2018 11:16:37 GMT
I think we have to remember that we also have to remind ourselves that we have a development side full of good kids who will never play for us, and of course a 100+ coaches. OK I exaggerated. I think the AQ's bought us as an investment, and I think that they thought that they would but the land off the UWE, not just to "own" the ground but also to build perhaps a hotel, and maybe a few shops as well the rents of which will go to pay them back for their investment. Of course if they had that they would get a much better price when they sold us to the Chinese. I think that they have bee sold a pup. They didn't realise that whilst everyone else is in 2018 we sadly remain in 1992, or thereabouts. Developing the Mem will not be a money winner. Basically we need land where we can lease out plots to "leisure facilities". At best the Mem might include a hotel and a crèche, neither of which brings in a lot of money. Look at the places that surround Oxford, MK Dons and Coventry for example. Compare that to the wilderness at Colchester. As for supporting the club through advertising, I don't make enough for that, and to be honest after 50 years of missing holidays and other events, and basically being as tired as the Mem I'm not even going to buy a season ticket next year. And I know it is very easy to slip in to the habit of not going. From day one to the present I have stood in 3 shitholes of grounds. The main problem for the club is the popularity of Bristol by those that can afford to move here, it has raised land prices to almost London prices, although I see Dings are building a ground near the M32 I think to myself, why didn't we try and go there? But if there is anywhere, it needs to be near the ring road or a main road in to Bristol.
I wasted my time by writing this in a letter to Hamer, to which he replied to (well done for that). He quoted how Swansea developed, but the 2 are totally different. 1. Different time, Swansea developed when there was more money about, 2. Swansea has one team and as such had the councils backing. In Bristol if the council gave us anything they would have to give the dark side something too and 3. The price of land.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 25, 2018 11:17:08 GMT
Hi GH1981, what is your business? I too advertise at the Mem, and have a hospitality package and I do it for the love of the club. ( is that sad? ) I can't see many people phoning up my company for a hydraulic pump. Bob A B Fluid Power Ltd The advertising does work, I mean, if ever I needed some electro-pneumatic components, you'd be first on my list i also advertise with the club in a small way, do you need any computer support ?
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Post by peterparker on Jan 25, 2018 11:18:46 GMT
Maybe something The SC and our fans director could press the owners about Try asking the SC and fans director because they already have information on the way forward and are being briefed Nice to hear.
I am not a fan of The SC in it's current form for being a voice for the supporters to the board, but would be interesting to see the 'doubters' press The SC and the fans directors about getting some answers instead of speculating on message boards. After all isn't that what they are there for
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Post by thomas on Jan 25, 2018 11:32:43 GMT
The advertising does work, I mean, if ever I needed some electro-pneumatic components, you'd be first on my list i also advertise with the club in a small way, do you need any computer support ? Hi Henbury, I have someone at the moment, but I'll keep your info on record. Perhaps there's few if not more posters on here with businesses that could offer their services to others? Bob
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Post by lpgas on Jan 25, 2018 11:53:13 GMT
i also advertise with the club in a small way, do you need any computer support ? Hi Henbury, I have someone at the moment, but I'll keep your info on record. Perhaps there's few if not more posters on here with businesses that could offer their services to others? Bob i lock security. Locksmiths and security consultants.
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