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Post by knowall on Jan 8, 2018 17:42:49 GMT
I think our budget is going to remain bottom 6, so a lowering of expectations will be needed. Who's raised them anyway? our budget is governed by certain rules as per every club
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jan 8, 2018 17:49:43 GMT
Who's raised them anyway? our budget is governed by certain rules as per every club Rules you can get around if the willingness is there.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 8, 2018 18:03:22 GMT
Who's raised them anyway? our budget is governed by certain rules as per every club How can we be bottom 6 with our home attendances/turnover plus doesn't BB's transfer fee now count as turnover, we've got to be at least mid-table unless other club's owners are putting more of their own money into the club's.
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Post by pirate49 on Jan 8, 2018 18:11:32 GMT
our budget is governed by certain rules as per every club How can we be bottom 6 with our home attendances/turnover...... No-one's ever been able to give a satisfactory answer to that one. Answers please on the back of an envelope or an empty fag packet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 18:46:25 GMT
our budget is governed by certain rules as per every club Rules you can get around if the willingness is there. Yes, all they would have to do is convert some of the loan into shares or give us a sponsorship from one ofthe Al Qadi companies and then you can spent the money and stay inside the rules.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 18:47:39 GMT
How can we be bottom 6 with our home attendances/turnover...... No-one's ever been able to give a satisfactory answer to that one. Answers please on the back of an envelope or an empty fag packet. Because our off-field earnings are poor hence need for new stadium and new income streams.
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Post by Gassy on Jan 8, 2018 19:11:58 GMT
No-one's ever been able to give a satisfactory answer to that one. Answers please on the back of an envelope or an empty fag packet. Because our off-field earnings are poor hence need for new stadium and new income streams. And Burton, Yeovil, Brentford, Southend, Luton, Scunthrope, Peterborough, Colchester - all off the top of my head? Sure some of their stadiums are better then ours, but not different enough where they make millions more, many with lower attendances that would roughly equal out with our lack of off the field income?
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Post by yategasman on Jan 8, 2018 19:21:49 GMT
By and large I've remained fairly positive and supportive of our owners. However, with so many negative rumours, the collapse of the UWE deal and the Colony stalling I have started to become a little worried. I'm pinning a lot on this transfer window. A good show of support for DC will be massive. Anything less and I think the owners will really be in danger of losing the fans. What do others feel? Wow have we got new owners😜
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:36:09 GMT
Because our off-field earnings are poor hence need for new stadium and new income streams. And Burton, Yeovil, Brentford, Southend, Luton, Scunthrope, Peterborough, Colchester - all off the top of my head? Sure some of their stadiums are better then ours, but not different enough where they make millions more, many with lower attendances that would roughly equal out with our lack of off the field income? Go to companies house website and look up accounts and you can see how other clubs generate income by the way I think you will find Yeovil's budget is significantly less than ours and Brentfort and Burton as championship clubs get much higher solidarity payments than us. Peterborough are experts in generating income through the transfer market. We are more dependent on gate income than most and this is why the club is trying to develop new income streams and why we appointed a new commercial manager.
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Post by Gassy on Jan 8, 2018 20:16:06 GMT
And Burton, Yeovil, Brentford, Southend, Luton, Scunthrope, Peterborough, Colchester - all off the top of my head? Sure some of their stadiums are better then ours, but not different enough where they make millions more, many with lower attendances that would roughly equal out with our lack of off the field income? Go to companies house website and look up accounts and you can see how other clubs generate income by the way I think you will find Yeovil's budget is significantly less than ours and Brentfort and Burton as championship clubs get much higher solidarity payments than us. Peterborough are experts in generating income through the transfer market. We are more dependent on gate income than most and this is why the club is trying to develop new income streams and why we appointed a new commercial manager.  Sure Yeovil have lower now - and Brentford and Burton have higher now, but to get promoted to the Championship you have to go through league 1 - which they all did by managing their budgets well. The point I’m making is that most clubs sit at their natural level, they go higher and some times lower, that’s the joys of supporting a football league team. We however, just seem to go lower than our natural level, we seem to constantly fight just to be there. I’m 26 and 90% of my life we’ve been in League 2. I think people (including myself) just wonder why WE always seem to struggle at our natural level, why WE always seem to be slow in the transfer market, why WE always seem to lack investment, why WE seem to have the worst Stadium in the league, why WE seem to get sold multiple dreams of a new stadium only to be let down etc etc. Sadly, the list could go on
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 8, 2018 20:25:04 GMT
And Burton, Yeovil, Brentford, Southend, Luton, Scunthrope, Peterborough, Colchester - all off the top of my head? Sure some of their stadiums are better then ours, but not different enough where they make millions more, many with lower attendances that would roughly equal out with our lack of off the field income? Go to companies house website and look up accounts and you can see how other clubs generate income by the way I think you will find Yeovil's budget is significantly less than ours and Brentfort and Burton as championship clubs get much higher solidarity payments than us. Peterborough are experts in generating income through the transfer market. We are more dependent on gate income than most and this is why the club is trying to develop new income streams and why we appointed a new commercial manager. So do all these teams with lower average home attendances have an higher turnover: Doncaster, Southend, Shrewsbury, Northampton, Gillingham solely down to having better stadiums? Shrewsbury seem to have got their finances sorted out a bit better than ours: - The club continues to have no debt and holds around about £2m cash in the bank. - The directors took no salary or dividend payments from the club consistent with prior years. - The club was in a positive net assets position at 30th June 2016 of £13.1m – that is to say it had £13.1m more assets than liabilities at that date.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 8, 2018 20:33:50 GMT
Go to companies house website and look up accounts and you can see how other clubs generate income by the way I think you will find Yeovil's budget is significantly less than ours and Brentfort and Burton as championship clubs get much higher solidarity payments than us. Peterborough are experts in generating income through the transfer market. We are more dependent on gate income than most and this is why the club is trying to develop new income streams and why we appointed a new commercial manager.  Sure Yeovil have lower now - and Brentford and Burton have higher now, but to get promoted to the Championship you have to go through league 1 - which they all did by managing their budgets well. The point I’m making is that most clubs sit at their natural level, they go higher and some times lower, that’s the joys of supporting a football league team. We however, just seem to go lower than our natural level, we seem to constantly fight just to be there. I’m 26 and 90% of my life we’ve been in League 2. I think people (including myself) just wonder why WE always seem to struggle at our natural level, why WE always seem to be slow in the transfer market, why WE always seem to lack investment, why WE seem to have the worst Stadium in the league, why WE seem to get sold multiple dreams of a new stadium only to be let down etc etc. Sadly, the list could go on We are so far behind most clubs I would say WE are above our natural level.
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Post by aghast on Jan 8, 2018 20:42:55 GMT
Go to companies house website and look up accounts and you can see how other clubs generate income by the way I think you will find Yeovil's budget is significantly less than ours and Brentfort and Burton as championship clubs get much higher solidarity payments than us. Peterborough are experts in generating income through the transfer market. We are more dependent on gate income than most and this is why the club is trying to develop new income streams and why we appointed a new commercial manager. Sure Yeovil have lower now - and Brentford and Burton have higher now, but to get promoted to the Championship you have to go through league 1 - which they all did by managing their budgets well. The point I’m making is that most clubs sit at their natural level, they go higher and some times lower, that’s the joys of supporting a football league team. We however, just seem to go lower than our natural level, we seem to constantly fight just to be there. I’m 26 and 90% of my life we’ve been in League 2. I think people (including myself) just wonder why WE always seem to struggle at our natural level, why WE always seem to be slow in the transfer market, why WE always seem to lack investment, why WE seem to have the worst Stadium in the league, why WE seem to get sold multiple dreams of a new stadium only to be let down etc etc. Sadly, the list could go on I don't think our natural level is mid to upper League 1 any more. That's historical stuff which has been wiped away in the last 15 years or so through poor management and lack of investment. I think we are now a L1/L2 yo-yo club, which makes our stadium, facilities and budgets look more understandable but not at all enjoyable. That can change if the owners want it to change, but I don't see it at the moment. You never know, though.
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Post by Gassy on Jan 8, 2018 20:52:58 GMT
For me, natural level is decided on size of fan base, so we’re roughly where we should be - mid table league 1. Although I do see why others think it goes deeper such as stadium, academy, general infrastructure etc
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 21:47:22 GMT
Go to companies house website and look up accounts and you can see how other clubs generate income by the way I think you will find Yeovil's budget is significantly less than ours and Brentfort and Burton as championship clubs get much higher solidarity payments than us. Peterborough are experts in generating income through the transfer market. We are more dependent on gate income than most and this is why the club is trying to develop new income streams and why we appointed a new commercial manager. Sure Yeovil have lower now - and Brentford and Burton have higher now, but to get promoted to the Championship you have to go through league 1 - which they all did by managing their budgets well. The point I’m making is that most clubs sit at their natural level, they go higher and some times lower, that’s the joys of supporting a football league team. We however, just seem to go lower than our natural level, we seem to constantly fight just to be there. I’m 26 and 90% of my life we’ve been in League 2. I think people (including myself) just wonder why WE always seem to struggle at our natural level, why WE always seem to be slow in the transfer market, why WE always seem to lack investment, why WE seem to have the worst Stadium in the league, why WE seem to get sold multiple dreams of a new stadium only to be let down etc etc. Sadly, the list could go on agreed...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 21:55:47 GMT
Go to companies house website and look up accounts and you can see how other clubs generate income by the way I think you will find Yeovil's budget is significantly less than ours and Brentfort and Burton as championship clubs get much higher solidarity payments than us. Peterborough are experts in generating income through the transfer market. We are more dependent on gate income than most and this is why the club is trying to develop new income streams and why we appointed a new commercial manager. So do all these teams with lower average home attendances have an higher turnover: Doncaster, Southend, Shrewsbury, Northampton, Gillingham solely down to having better stadiums? Shrewsbury seem to have got their finances sorted out a bit better than ours: - The club continues to have no debt and holds around about £2m cash in the bank. - The directors took no salary or dividend payments from the club consistent with prior years. - The club was in a positive net assets position at 30th June 2016 of £13.1m – that is to say it had £13.1m more assets than liabilities at that date. Yes most of these clubs do have bigger income than us for example last accounts of Southend showed income of £5.5 million whilst ours was £4.7m and Shrewsbury £6.9m . Simple fact is we are poor at generating off-field income.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 8, 2018 22:13:55 GMT
So do all these teams with lower average home attendances have an higher turnover: Doncaster, Southend, Shrewsbury, Northampton, Gillingham solely down to having better stadiums? Shrewsbury seem to have got their finances sorted out a bit better than ours: - The club continues to have no debt and holds around about £2m cash in the bank. - The directors took no salary or dividend payments from the club consistent with prior years. - The club was in a positive net assets position at 30th June 2016 of £13.1m – that is to say it had £13.1m more assets than liabilities at that date. Yes most of these clubs do have bigger income than us for example last accounts of Southend showed income of £5.5 million whilst ours was £4.7m and Shrewsbury £6.9m . Simple fact is we are poor at generating off-field income. Shrewbury's included transfer fees and a cup run (remember those?) Southend as an established DIv 1 club would be more but probably not a great more than ours last season, unless they sold players as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 23:24:50 GMT
Yes most of these clubs do have bigger income than us for example last accounts of Southend showed income of £5.5 million whilst ours was £4.7m and Shrewsbury £6.9m . Simple fact is we are poor at generating off-field income. Shrewbury's included transfer fees and a cup run (remember those?) Southend as an established DIv 1 club would be more but probably not a great more than ours last season, unless they sold players as well. True Shrewsbury's income was greatly boosted by player sales but really the point I'm making is that despite reasonable gates for our level our income is not great and that's down to a number of factors as Peterborough and Shrewsbury show making a profit in the transfer market and good cup runs make a difference and also off-field revenue also make a difference and we score low on all three (exception the money we made from Chelsea last year). That said, Shrewsbury are similar to use in income terms once player sales are ignored but don't make such big losses as us so good financial management must come into in as well.
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 9, 2018 8:28:39 GMT
Some interesting figures on the Deloitte website about football finances. www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/annual-review-of-football-finance.htmlHeadlines for me were the revenue and wage costs. In simplistic terms the wages in League 1 are double that of League 2 and a fifth of the Championship. Now some of this will be skewed by squad size, TV money and ex Prem teams dropping down with parachute payments, but does highlight what the problem is. Also, have a look at the transfers tab, the infographic is quite stark about how little goes and stays within the English game, therefore affecting the pyramid system we have.
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