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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 20:05:23 GMT
A lot of people taking as gospel that Exeter will only take £1m for Stockley. Where is the evidence of this? And as for Ellis, he was a 14-goal striker for one season in League 1. I rate him, but 750k plus add ons seems pretty reasonable business. Gary madine a big strong boy aged 27 scored 9 goals in boltons promotion season from 36 appearances signed by cardiff city for a reported £6m . Makes a young player like ellis look like a bargain to me. Madine was signed having scored 10 in 28 Championship appearances. If Ellis does that, he'll command something bigger but until then, he's only done it in League 1. There's also the fact that he had just a year left on his contract.
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Post by stevek192 on Jul 28, 2018 20:05:39 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 20:09:02 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls. Can not disagree with anything in this post Steve.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 20:15:30 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls. I would think that two promotions might count for something. Hirst hasn't achieved this once. Why is bringing players in from a higher division so important? Isn't having a sufficient budget for transfer fees and wages a major factor in this too? Agree that £300k on Nichols hasn't worked out (and if his performance today is anything to go by, we should accept a tenth of that if offered). But you seem to be judging DC's ability and level on his transfer business alone. Even if we agreed on his success or otherwise of that (which we don't!), surely he should be judged on the overall package...?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 20:16:22 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls. I do agree that from a career opportunity point of view dc has missed the boat thats why on QPR and ipswich forums people were talking about hurst and cowley with no mention of dc. Nobody can bring in players from a higher league though unless they are not wanted by anybody from that higher league. The salary gap between championship and league one is massive £300k v £70k[average] so the higher league comment is rubbish imo.
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Post by rocknrollaayatollah on Jul 28, 2018 20:17:59 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls. “His skill seems mainly in non-league football” I know it’s attack the post not the poster but f@@k off. He achieved 3rd place in League 2 and finished 10th in League One the next season. I know the result was terrible today but for god’s sake.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 20:20:12 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls. I do agree that from a career opportunity point of view dc has missed the boat thats why on QPR and ipswich forums people were talking about hurst and cowley with no mention of dc. Nobody can bring in players from a higher league though unless they are not wanted by anybody from that higher league. The salary gap between championship and league one is massive £300k v £70k[average] so the higher league comment is rubbish imo. Let's hope he has missed the boat. Their loss is our gain.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 20:20:27 GMT
Gary madine a big strong boy aged 27 scored 9 goals in boltons promotion season from 36 appearances signed by cardiff city for a reported £6m . Makes a young player like ellis look like a bargain to me. Madine was signed having scored 10 in 28 Championship appearances. If Ellis does that, he'll command something bigger but until then, he's only done it in League 1. There's also the fact that he had just a year left on his contract. I can see good logic on why taylor,bodin and harrison went cheap but how many more will go cheap before the club realises they are doing something badly wrong? Maybe sercombe in january for £250k but totally understandable with his contract situation?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 20:28:08 GMT
Madine was signed having scored 10 in 28 Championship appearances. If Ellis does that, he'll command something bigger but until then, he's only done it in League 1. There's also the fact that he had just a year left on his contract. I can see good logic on why taylor,bodin and harrison went cheap but how many more will go cheap before the club realises they are doing something badly wrong? Maybe sercombe in january for £250k but totally understandable with his contract situation? It's an interesting one with Sercombe. Good player with a knack of getting goals from midfield. Flip side of that is that he can go missing and contribute nothing to games. I'd say he would need to improve defensive aspects of his game before anyone came in for him from a higher level. As for a price, hard to say...£500k with a year left on his contract maybe? Like I said, I think 750k was a fair price for Ellis but I do take your point. It's that balance between longer contracts and shorter deals. Both can work for and against us.
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Post by axegas on Jul 28, 2018 20:37:46 GMT
Madine was signed having scored 10 in 28 Championship appearances. If Ellis does that, he'll command something bigger but until then, he's only done it in League 1. There's also the fact that he had just a year left on his contract. I can see good logic on why taylor,bodin and harrison went cheap but how many more will go cheap before the club realises they are doing something badly wrong? Maybe sercombe in january for £250k but totally understandable with his contract situation? It's down to the fact that we always offer 2 year contracts to players. It means that if one of our players has an exceptional season, they are halfway through their contract and we are under pressure to offer them a new contract or if we can't do that sell them for considerably less than if they had 2/3 years left on their deal. I understand DC likes doing this because it pushes players to play well to get a contract renewal and it means that he can get rid of the underperforming players more easily but it has cost us rather a lot in transfer fees received. Peterborough offered Jack Marriott a 4 year deal and were able to get rather a lot of money after his breakthrough season because he had 3 years left which put Peterborough in a strong negotiating position. I think the way forward for us is to insert contract extension clauses into contracts as it wouldn't prevent DC from getting rid of players he doesn't want from the squad (Moore, Burn ect) but it would allow us to have an extra year with the players that we do want to keep. Had we done this with Bodin, Harrison and Taylor's contracts, we would of got another year with them and be able to sell them on for more than they went for.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 21:04:02 GMT
Looking at todays game we do seem to have some very talented midfield players ie bennett,matthews,rodman and upson. We just need a strong striker who can hold the ball up and give these players a chance to get into the 2nd phase of build up play. You know someone like ellis but on a free transfer. Ps i thought reilly looked lively and promising today but not a target man as such.
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Post by dinsdale on Jul 28, 2018 21:06:11 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls. DC needs time to develop and im happy to see him given that time after what he has given us. The appointment of a recruitment chief is a wise move
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 21:14:20 GMT
Only possible reason is that he is asking for such large wages that it would put us over our limit on wages under fair play rules. Oh yes, possibly the owners want to recoup the cost of laying the new pitch? As I said above, the fair play rules can easily be got around if the Al Qadi's wanted to. The turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. True Pirate, they just need to convert some of the loan into shares. Would take 5 minutes to complete the forms then file at Companies House. I could do it ...not need for a team of lawyers and accountants.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 21:17:54 GMT
I can see good logic on why taylor,bodin and harrison went cheap but how many more will go cheap before the club realises they are doing something badly wrong? Maybe sercombe in january for £250k but totally understandable with his contract situation? It's down to the fact that we always offer 2 year contracts to players. It means that if one of our players has an exceptional season, they are halfway through their contract and we are under pressure to offer them a new contract or if we can't do that sell them for considerably less than if they had 2/3 years left on their deal. I understand DC likes doing this because it pushes players to play well to get a contract renewal and it means that he can get rid of the underperforming players more easily but it has cost us rather a lot in transfer fees received. Peterborough offered Jack Marriott a 4 year deal and were able to get rather a lot of money after his breakthrough season because he had 3 years left which put Peterborough in a strong negotiating position. I think the way forward for us is to insert contract extension clauses into contracts as it wouldn't prevent DC from getting rid of players he doesn't want from the squad (Moore, Burn ect) but it would allow us to have an extra year with the players that we do want to keep. Had we done this with Bodin, Harrison and Taylor's contracts, we would of got another year with them and be able to sell them on for more than they went for. Would players sign that type of contract? Tying them down could increase their future transfer fee and lessen their chances of a decent move and signing on fee but on the flip side giving them less long term security. I'd imagine most agents would strongly recommend against selling themselves short with those terms.
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Post by lmgas on Jul 28, 2018 21:29:58 GMT
Transfer fees received is all very interesting, but, if the money isn't given to DC it doesn't make a lot of difference if we get £5m or £5k.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 21:54:33 GMT
Transfer fees received is all very interesting, but, if the money isn't given to DC it doesn't make a lot of difference if we get £5m or £5k. If the £5m was spent on the training ground, I could live with that.
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Post by 84gas on Jul 28, 2018 22:28:02 GMT
What did I say! I’m not happy. Bodin and Ellis money, we deserve better
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 28, 2018 22:41:18 GMT
I don't agree that DC will go because to do that you have to have somebody who wants him. How would you compare DC's getting us to 13th in League 1 ( a worse performance than the previous season) with Hirsts achievements at Shrewsbury? I would very much question DC's ability and knowledge to get better players to the club. He doesn't have a proven record in bringing players from a higher division into the club. His skill seems mainly in non-league football and as such we may be the highest he will go in Management. My point is that maybe whilst most of the players he has brought in are average League 1 players now perhaps DC also is an average League 1 Manager. The only proof we have at present as to his ability to spend (bigger) money is £300,000 on Nicholls. Come on Steve, Hurst saved Shrewsbury from relegation then had a good season based mainly on getting loans in. He never built the club, didn’t create any lasting legacy yet you call it a proven record. Hurst has arrived in the Championship without ever getting a league promotion. He took years to get Grimsby out of the Conference and a lot of the fans didn’t rate him and after his semi final first leg against Braintree the fans were baying at him. He did get promotion finally but never built that team up. And to say that most of the players he has brought in are of average league 1 standard is very unfair. He can only bring in whatever the budget allows and it’s the owners who set that, not him. We lost to Exeter once before in 2010 (?) and the board over-reacted and sacked PT and we know where that led. It’s an important week ahead no doubt but we’ve got to give DC time to get the strikers in that he needs. UTG!
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Post by RetroGamer on Jul 28, 2018 23:11:30 GMT
I don't understand why people get so drawn in to comments like these from DC. Surely they are aimed more towards other clubs and agents to keep them from demanding even more extortionate fees and wages than they already do.
A clever tactic and one that DC has employed from the outset.
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Post by yattongas on Jul 28, 2018 23:16:42 GMT
DC won't hang around long if we don't back him. I’m confused .... a while back you were saying we didn’t need to spend anything ion strikers as there were plenty available for free. We should look to the Spanish etc div 2/3 for the solution.
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