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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 14, 2018 11:12:28 GMT
Surely DC's expectations took a dive, like most of ours when the UWE plans bit the dust, we've had two transfer windows since then where he's brought in players. I just don't get he's so disgruntled he can't do his job properly, either he's completely lost his way or he's trying to force a sale by having the team underperform, as I doubt the value of the club will increase whilst we're looking relegation candidates.
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Post by Raj Gas on Oct 14, 2018 11:13:17 GMT
I know there are always exceptions but in the summer it seems to me that we recruited League 1 players which have generally not worked.
It makes me question whether with DC's and the Head of Recruitment having played/managed mostly at a lower level whether we should be recruiting and developing those type of players and not ones that some would call journeymen?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 11:14:56 GMT
It's not about judging DC on one signing (Nichols) it's about judging him on how it's taken him over 40 games to realise that he's sh**. You're still doing it, taking one negative rather tham the overall picture. Brilliant.[/quote] How many games is it ok to judge him over then? I'm still DC in by the way, but there are some obvious flaws that should not be overlooked. He persisted with a player last year despite a loanee looking more dangerous and he's started this season making the same mistake. You could surely argue that our lack of any kind of goal threat is the only reason we are even discussing DCs position. If we'd scored more, we'd have lossed less right? How is that not looking at the bigger picture?[/quote] For what it's worth, I agree that Nichols isn't good enough and has turned out to be a poor signing. However that's arguably one poor decision (to persist as long). The bigger picture is surely the conditions he is working under, where it would appear that the relationship with his bosses has become a little strained, the training facilities he expected haven't materialised yet, and he's constantly (not just once) had to replace his best players with inferior ones. When they are strikers, it is particularly apparent.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Oct 14, 2018 11:24:33 GMT
I think he’s a legend for what he’s achieved but if we play the same narrow tripe in our next two games that’s got us in to the bottom four and fail to pick up more than three points questions need to be asked. It’s glaringly obvious what’s the problem but he doesn’t change it and we continue to try and play down the middle third of the pitch lengthways with wingers and full backs on their wrong side and hoof ball down the middle. Bodin was one of those rare players who’s good enough and a class above the level he was playing at to play as an inside forward . But ffs get Mathews on the left and Bennet or Rodman on the right and use the pitch or we’ll go down with a record minimum goals scored. And stop playing CBs at full back. I'd rather Martin played than sticking James Clarke in at LB.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 14, 2018 11:33:50 GMT
I think he’s a legend for what he’s achieved but if we play the same narrow tripe in our next two games that’s got us in to the bottom four and fail to pick up more than three points questions need to be asked. It’s glaringly obvious what’s the problem but he doesn’t change it and we continue to try and play down the middle third of the pitch lengthways with wingers and full backs on their wrong side and hoof ball down the middle. Bodin was one of those rare players who’s good enough and a class above the level he was playing at to play as an inside forward . But ffs get Mathews on the left and Bennet or Rodman on the right and use the pitch or we’ll go down with a record minimum goals scored. And stop playing CBs at full back. I'd rather Martin played than sticking James Clarke in at LB. Steady on!
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 14, 2018 11:36:48 GMT
For what it's worth, I agree that Nichols isn't good enough and has turned out to be a poor signing. However that's arguably one poor decision (to persist as long). The bigger picture is surely the conditions he is working under, where it would appear that the relationship with his bosses has become a little strained, the training facilities he expected haven't materialised yet, and he's constantly (not just once) had to replace his best players with inferior ones. When they are strikers, it is particularly apparent.[/quote] I don't disagree, I probably should have been clearer that the single issue I picked out was/is the source of my waivering on DC.
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Post by tomylil on Oct 14, 2018 12:14:34 GMT
Surely DC's expectations took a dive, like most of ours when the UWE plans bit the dust, we've had two transfer windows since then where he's brought in players. I just don't get he's so disgruntled he can't do his job properly, either he's completely lost his way or he's trying to force a sale by having the team underperform, as I doubt the value of the club will increase whilst we're looking relegation candidates. I think he feels let down or maybe even lied to. I can't think of any other reason why he would turn down Leeds even if they were a basket case of a club because a contract there would have set him up financially big time.
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Post by toddy1953 on Oct 14, 2018 13:04:10 GMT
I get fed up with fans coming on here and saying DC is the best manager we have ever had, Gerry Francis achieved far more than DC he got us up-to Championship level playing at little Twerton Park on a shoe string budget, he even paid 10,000 pounds of his own money to bring Holloway to the club as there was no money for transfers. Going back even further Don Megson also got us to the second tier admittedly like DC he did have money for transfers but he bought in Bannister, Worboys and Stanifoth, not the likes of Nichols,Rielly and Payne who are poor in comparison. I don't want to see DC go but if he doesn't stop tinkering and playing players out of position he may well dig his own grave. The club is already loosing money at this level if we go down the situation will only get worse and we could go into a downward spiral,like players no Manager is greater than the club and DC needs to change his ways. Bert Tann was obviously our greatest ever manager because he operated at a level we can only dream about now. Don Megson brought a new dynamic to the club and anyone who was around at the start of the 73/74 season will remember how we just knew this was going to be our year and sure enough we made it to the second tier once again. I have first hand knowledge of how Gerry Francis worked and it was a very enlightening experience. I watched how Denis and Geoff Dunford managed Gerry together with vital input from Ron Craig and Roy Redman. Contrary to what many fans think you don't, as Nick Higgs once famously said, appoint a manager and let him get on with it. Gerry was an exceptional footballer with a wide knowledge of the game and extensive contacts but he needed and accepted (sometimes reluctantly) the advice from older hands who not only had long business experience but were also genuine Rovers fans. That is what helped make him a successful manager. Of course Darrell Clarke does not have Gerry's football pedigree and he has gained his success with Rovers at a level many of us never imagined we would sink to. But, he does have the same "rough diamond" characteristics as Gerry and he is a totally dedicated football man who is willing to learn as evidenced by his work to achieve top coaching badges. What Darrell is crying out for is the wise counsel which Gerry was lucky enough to have. Excellent points there. SH should be that person, but either he is not capable or the owners just want a glorified office manager, with a PT job on the radio.
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Post by simon1883 on Oct 14, 2018 14:30:01 GMT
I think this is bang on. If we could go down the route again of a DoF it would benefit us hugely. However, would DC accept this? I'm not so sure as he is a bit full of himself. Until this season nobody has been calling for a DoF why do we suddenly need one now DC's struggling. Plus that's even more "middle" management costs we all moan about the ALQ's already spending. Just a suggestion to help a struggling manager.... It would all form part of his development. He's has not been managing long enough at a high enough level to get to know people. Even when he get loans etc in, he leaves them on the bench!
Would not have to be a perm thing, just something to help him out. Perhaps "Mentor" is a better word than DoF?
But no two ways about it, he is struggling - and for the sake of the club, something has to be done.
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Post by dickiedamsell on Oct 14, 2018 14:35:21 GMT
Don't need a mentor we need a manager who can manage.
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Post by lpgas on Oct 14, 2018 15:31:07 GMT
I'm probably in a very, very small majority of fans but I'd keep him even if we go down. This man is the greatest manager of our entire history and without him god knows where we'd be now - probably playing bloody Gaffney and Salford in the Conference still. I'd personally allow him to rebuild again in L2 with the view to coming back stronger next time (like we did when we dropped out of the FL). However, that just will not happen I don't think. So, being realistic, I'd allow him through January. IF this board takeover happens as supposedly it's going to (though who the hell knows anymore) then you've gotta hope he'll be given funds to sign a potent goalscorer. I'd settle for just surviving relegation this year and I do not think this man will take us down. The irony is our defence is actually quite good this season - only Blackpool have conceded fewer goals than us in the bottom half - so it's clear where our problems lie. Those nine goals scored in 13 games are bleak as hell and until we start putting the ball in the net, things will obviously not improve. But for now, I'd keep DC throughout January and hope we're in a lower mid-table position so that the short-term worries subside. Right now, however, I am worried and angry. So, the transfer window goes before we sack him?
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Post by lpgas on Oct 14, 2018 15:32:52 GMT
Seen the thread headline and purposely haven’t read the thread . All I say is I 100% back DC . Best manager in my lifetime..... 40 odd yrs following the Gas. It’s above him where the blame should lie Those above him didn't sign these players, and neither do they pick the teams every week. At some clubs he would already be gone
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Post by neilv93 on Oct 14, 2018 15:41:34 GMT
I'm probably in a very, very small majority of fans but I'd keep him even if we go down. This man is the greatest manager of our entire history and without him god knows where we'd be now - probably playing bloody Gaffney and Salford in the Conference still. I'd personally allow him to rebuild again in L2 with the view to coming back stronger next time (like we did when we dropped out of the FL). However, that just will not happen I don't think. So, being realistic, I'd allow him through January. IF this board takeover happens as supposedly it's going to (though who the hell knows anymore) then you've gotta hope he'll be given funds to sign a potent goalscorer. I'd settle for just surviving relegation this year and I do not think this man will take us down. The irony is our defence is actually quite good this season - only Blackpool have conceded fewer goals than us in the bottom half - so it's clear where our problems lie. Those nine goals scored in 13 games are bleak as hell and until we start putting the ball in the net, things will obviously not improve. But for now, I'd keep DC throughout January and hope we're in a lower mid-table position so that the short-term worries subside. Right now, however, I am worried and angry. So, the transfer window goes before we sack him? Well I wouldn't sack him... But yep. He deserves at least that much IMO. As I said in the quoted post though, I'd give him the summer window too irrespective of our division next season.
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Post by lpgas on Oct 14, 2018 16:02:57 GMT
Reading this thread everyone is blaming everyone but DC. DC brought in these players. DC has spent so much of his budget he could not sign anyone until he let someone go. And that situation will be the same in January because he has reached the EFL budget limit, and sorry to say that budget will be smaller next year as the crowds this season get smaller by each home game. What has he done wrong? Well in my opinion he has messed about with the team so much they have lost focus, and his attitude has changed. To try and get us out of this mess he is putting the defence first, but we all know that without Bonham we would have lost a lot more than we have. In the past he always said it doesn't matter how many we let in as long as we score more. He has pursued with his largest signing, and our second highest for far too long, it hasn't helped Nichols, the team, or the club. the fact that he is on an undisclosed length of contract says it all. I suspect it is something like 4 years, so quite a lot of money to pay him off and even more to keep him playing. Meanwhile we have Payne, who probably isn't used to being in and out of the team like a yo yo. Good news is that he has started a loan player. Jackubiac is probably our best forward at the moment, and he needs a run in the team, but what is the betting he is back on the bench next game. Payne and Jak would be my first choice, both have power and neither are afraid to put their head in where it hurts. Yesterday was a game to early for Lockyer, but he is one of the undroppables and so is straight in to the team. Meanwhile whilst I accept that the beard has done so much for the club it is time for him to go. He harries players, but when he tackles he goes to ground far too easily, and to be honest he rarely makes a forward pass of any consequence. Sercombe needs to be in the middle of the pitch, everyweek, but we all know it will be, left wing, right wing, bench. I understand DC is trying to find a winning formula, but even when he does, he will completely change it for the following game. Successful teams at this level don't do that, they have a first team, and on the bench they have people to come on who are the same standard. Unfortunately so many of our players are just not good enough at this level. And DC signed them
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 14, 2018 16:14:24 GMT
Reading this thread everyone is blaming everyone but DC. DC brought in these players. DC has spent so much of his budget he could not sign anyone until he let someone go. And that situation will be the same in January because he has reached the EFL budget limit, and sorry to say that budget will be smaller next year as the crowds this season get smaller by each home game. What has he done wrong? Well in my opinion he has messed about with the team so much they have lost focus, and his attitude has changed. To try and get us out of this mess he is putting the defence first, but we all know that without Bonham we would have lost a lot more than we have. In the past he always said it doesn't matter how many we let in as long as we score more. He has pursued with his largest signing, and our second highest for far too long, it hasn't helped Nichols, the team, or the club. the fact that he is on an undisclosed length of contract says it all. I suspect it is something like 4 years, so quite a lot of money to pay him off and even more to keep him playing. Meanwhile we have Payne, who probably isn't used to being in and out of the team like a yo yo. Good news is that he has started a loan player. Jackubiac is probably our best forward at the moment, and he needs a run in the team, but what is the betting he is back on the bench next game. Payne and Jak would be my first choice, both have power and neither are afraid to put their head in where it hurts. Yesterday was a game to early for Lockyer, but he is one of the undroppables and so is straight in to the team. Meanwhile whilst I accept that the beard has done so much for the club it is time for him to go. He harries players, but when he tackles he goes to ground far too easily, and to be honest he rarely makes a forward pass of any consequence. Sercombe needs to be in the middle of the pitch, everyweek, but we all know it will be, left wing, right wing, bench. I understand DC is trying to find a winning formula, but even when he does, he will completely change it for the following game. Successful teams at this level don't do that, they have a first team, and on the bench they have people to come on who are the same standard. Unfortunately so many of our players are just not good enough at this level. And DC signed them DC played Sercs in the middle yesterday and he had a shocker, and Jakubiak didn't even have one shot on goal, including when he was put clean though with only a goalie to beat outside of his area to beat! For some we can't seem to work as an attacking force away from home no matter who starts. As far as Bonham's saved us a few times, why doesn't DC get the credit for signing him? With regards to Payne being in and out of the team, I'm pretty sure when he's been fit he's started but he's turning into another Blizzard "sicknote" type signing. All you say is sack DC but you've watched Rovers long enough to know sacking the manager usually ends up with us being relegated. As was the case when Holloway and Trollope were both sacked.
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Post by dickiedamsell on Oct 14, 2018 16:20:13 GMT
Just get rid of the man who cannot manage.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 17:06:16 GMT
I'm probably in a very, very small majority of fans but I'd keep him even if we go down. This man is the greatest manager of our entire history and without him god knows where we'd be now - probably playing bloody Gaffney and Salford in the Conference still. I'd personally allow him to rebuild again in L2 with the view to coming back stronger next time (like we did when we dropped out of the FL). However, that just will not happen I don't think. So, being realistic, I'd allow him through January. IF this board takeover happens as supposedly it's going to (though who the hell knows anymore) then you've gotta hope he'll be given funds to sign a potent goalscorer. I'd settle for just surviving relegation this year and I do not think this man will take us down. The irony is our defence is actually quite good this season - only Blackpool have conceded fewer goals than us in the bottom half - so it's clear where our problems lie. Those nine goals scored in 13 games are bleak as hell and until we start putting the ball in the net, things will obviously not improve. But for now, I'd keep DC throughout January and hope we're in a lower mid-table position so that the short-term worries subside. Right now, however, I am worried and angry. So, the transfer window goes before we sack him? No. We just don't sack him.
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Post by lpgas on Oct 15, 2018 17:37:45 GMT
So, the transfer window goes before we sack him? No. We just don't sack him. and what if we go down? we keep him? the only benefit of playing in League two is that Nicholls might score more than one
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Post by midlandgas213 on Oct 15, 2018 18:14:10 GMT
No. We just don't sack him. and what if we go down? we keep him? the only benefit of playing in League two is that Nicholls might score more than one Now now that's enough jokes about TN😅
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 18:49:22 GMT
No. We just don't sack him. and what if we go down? we keep him? the only benefit of playing in League two is that Nicholls might score more than one Honest answer...I think we do keep him if we go down. Firstly, I think that a manager who dragged us back from a fate that could very easily have been that of Torquay's (went down with us and currently playing the likes of Chippenham, Bath City and WSM) deserves a crack at restoring us to where he took us. But I accept that sentiment isn't enough on its own. If we do go down, what will also be important is that we have a manager who can get us back up. Darrell Clarke has proved he knows how to do that. He knows the club, he knows the players, he is still popular with the supporters, he has success whilst working under budgetary constraints and if we do drop will have had just one bad season in five. All in all, he fits the bill exactly of what we would be looking for if we were to sack him. So what would be the point in sacking him? If however we go down and by the end of that season in League 2 there was no sign of progress, then his position should be reviewed. Every manager has a shelf life, even the successful ones. I just think ours still has a lot to give.
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