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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 7, 2019 7:14:31 GMT
I think the best way forward for us to go as a club is a modest, stand by stand redevelopment of the mem. Something that boosts the stadiums capacity up to 16k-17k and makes it easier to host events so our non match day revenue can increase and gives decent facilities for supporters that makes it easier to sell the club as a whole. The aim should then be to market season tickets at cheap, attractive prices so that we can look to get 10k+ crowds on a regular basis, this would put us in the top 5 league one clubs in terms of support and give us a real chance of competing for promotion to the championship, as well as growing our fanbase at the same time. Unless the owners have found a promising and realistic site for a new stadium and can't tell us due to NDA, I think the time has come to accept that we probably won't get the shiny new stadium that we have all been looking for and to look at alternatives. The mem is in a good location for a stadium and a stand by stand redevelopment could be funded by things such as stadium grants, student housing, commercial units, the sale of the colony and player sales etc. Seeing what Nottingham Forest are doing with their ground hopefully should give us some inspiration. sadly i don't think our beloved owners will want to spend any more cash on our little club whilst we are in the very lower leagues... I wonder what Hani is doing in this country this week ?
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Post by Congas on Mar 7, 2019 7:51:48 GMT
So their current home kingsmeadow they rent, yet somehow without any land assets they can purchase land in southwest London. Possibly one of the most expensive places to buy land in the country, possibly the entire planet. Oh, and then they've got the resources left over to build a stadium on the land.... Talk about pulling a rabbit out of a hat.... They owned Kingsmeadow but sold it to Chelsea to get money towards their new stadium.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 7, 2019 8:11:15 GMT
Just done the video walk through of spurs new pile.... OMG that's what £1b gets you puts our tents into prospective
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 7, 2019 8:29:00 GMT
I think the best way forward for us to go as a club is a modest, stand by stand redevelopment of the mem. Something that boosts the stadiums capacity up to 16k-17k and makes it easier to host events so our non match day revenue can increase and gives decent facilities for supporters that makes it easier to sell the club as a whole. The aim should then be to market season tickets at cheap, attractive prices so that we can look to get 10k+ crowds on a regular basis, this would put us in the top 5 league one clubs in terms of support and give us a real chance of competing for promotion to the championship, as well as growing our fanbase at the same time. Unless the owners have found a promising and realistic site for a new stadium and can't tell us due to NDA, I think the time has come to accept that we probably won't get the shiny new stadium that we have all been looking for and to look at alternatives. The mem is in a good location for a stadium and a stand by stand redevelopment could be funded by things such as stadium grants, student housing, commercial units, the sale of the colony and player sales etc. Seeing what Nottingham Forest are doing with their ground hopefully should give us some inspiration. The problem with re-developing the Mem is if the owners do that they can't sell the land to pay off the debts, plus there's no additional income streams from an hotel etc (unless it's built into the stadium aka Reading) also licensing laws at the Mem are apparently very restrictive so the ground bars have to close by 11pm. I still find it hard to believe there's not sufficient spare land at the Filton Airport site to meet all the ALQ's needs, but I guess it comes down to ££££'s. Not sure how selling the colony can help finance the stadium, as surely the ALQ's will just want their money back if they sell that!
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Post by Henbury Gas on Mar 7, 2019 8:49:28 GMT
I think the best way forward for us to go as a club is a modest, stand by stand redevelopment of the mem. Something that boosts the stadiums capacity up to 16k-17k and makes it easier to host events so our non match day revenue can increase and gives decent facilities for supporters that makes it easier to sell the club as a whole. The aim should then be to market season tickets at cheap, attractive prices so that we can look to get 10k+ crowds on a regular basis, this would put us in the top 5 league one clubs in terms of support and give us a real chance of competing for promotion to the championship, as well as growing our fanbase at the same time. Unless the owners have found a promising and realistic site for a new stadium and can't tell us due to NDA, I think the time has come to accept that we probably won't get the shiny new stadium that we have all been looking for and to look at alternatives. The mem is in a good location for a stadium and a stand by stand redevelopment could be funded by things such as stadium grants, student housing, commercial units, the sale of the colony and player sales etc. Seeing what Nottingham Forest are doing with their ground hopefully should give us some inspiration. The problem with re-developing the Mem is if the owners do that they can't sell the land to pay off the debts, plus there's no additional income streams from an hotel etc (unless it's built into the stadium aka Reading) also licensing laws at the Mem are apparently very restrictive so the ground bars have to close by 11pm. I still find it hard to believe there's not sufficient spare land at the Filton Airport site to meet all the ALQ's needs, but I guess it comes down to ££££'s. Not sure how selling the colony can help finance the stadium, as surely the ALQ's will just want their money back if they sell that! Was that changed recently to 2 am and more "events" allowed ?
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Post by gashead1981 on Mar 7, 2019 11:07:35 GMT
From what I know, the problem of rebuilding the mem lies within its location, restrictions on height for stands, what the site can offer for alternative income streams and any investment would be for a long term return, meaning the club would be heavily in debt, which, if the owners aren't prepared to service, then it means it isn't financially viable.
First problem is its location. The site is surrounded by housing which means residents are likely to oppose any form build which will bring extra traffic and people to the Mem outside what it already has. So if we start putting bars, restaurants and accommodation on the site, with that brings its own set of issues for residents. In some ways I can sympathise with this, I live close to a rugby club who have late licensing on weekends until 1am. Sometimes the noise is tedious, and there are only a couple of hundred people around there. Not to mention the likes of TRASH, ROSE and other nimbys who like to oppose, just because they can.
Second issue is planning restrictions. To make use of the full footprint of the mem would mean moving the Poplar stand back into the carpark, the housing the other side of the car park needs a set amount of light meaning the stand can only be so high.. To erect a South stand would would either mean having a small lower stand because of light issues to the housing estate behind also. That limits what you can build.
Third is cost. To rebuild the Mem onsite stand by stand would cost circa £15-20m. I think we have all worked out by now our owners have no interest in spending that money, investing that money, or doing anything to plan to. If so, we would have at least had a vision on the table by now. But lets not go over the feckless bunch for now. Instead, lets look at the figure and use £20m as a guide. That puts the club roughly £35m to the red taking into account current debts. We know that the owners are charging interest too on all moneys owed. There is a grant available from the FA which would entitle us to around £2.5m of funding for a full ground redevelopment thats on site. So there is a net debt of £32.5m cost that needs to be reduced quickly once the stadia is built. To make it cost effective the ground would need to return £2m per year back to the ALQ's before the first team actually see any of it invested. Now recouping that debt depends on all of the first 2 points and what we would be allowed to build.
Is a move more cost effective?
Potentially. If we use the UWE as the guide at the time and our debt pre ALQ's.
Cost of land was negotiated at £1m per acre (24 acres) with 150 year lease on the freehold with a renegotiation clause after 5 years. Cost of build £25m for basic stadium build. £2m fit out costs for exec boxes and bars. Debt at the time was around £7m. Total £58m.
£6m grant available from the FA for new stadia build. Recouped costs for supermarket, creche and other facilities were estimated at £10m. Sale of Mem site £30m.
Leaves £12m hole to fill. The sponsorship, conferencing facilities and match day revenues were estimated to fill that gap inside 3 years as well as tapping in to the potential of campus based students increasing our attendances, thus increasing our revenue.
On those basic figures a new stadium certainly makes sense. We would be in less debt with a much better property to return. If that stadium had been built which coincided with our rapid rise to L1, who knows where, as a club, we may have been. You could lay some of the blame at the door of Higgs/our lawyers for not making the contract watertight but equal blame lays at the feet of the ALQs for not running with it. The whole reason Micheal Cunnah was employed on our board of directors was because it was him who contacted Hamer, who introduced the ALQ's. Cunnah could see the vision and the opportunity to build it and make it work.
Problem we now have is finding another 25 acre or so site to build that kind of opportunity again. Will that happen in Bristol? Certainly not within our home boundaries (which was one of the reasons for not going to the UWE according to our President), simply because, there isn't the site available.
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Post by Congas on Mar 7, 2019 11:16:08 GMT
There'd have been a bigger plot to play with if past owners hadn't built houses on it.
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Post by tomylil on Mar 7, 2019 11:56:34 GMT
All this takes money and the AQ's don't have enough to waste on such a loss making venture.
Only way it will happen is if we could sell the Mem and use the cash to build somewhere cheaper. The fact we have a charge against the land counts that out so we are f**ked basically and anyone suggesting otherwise is with respect, deluded.
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Post by singupgas on Mar 7, 2019 11:57:58 GMT
If theres one club that deserves it then its them.Very happy for them! But its crazy to think that a club that was not even created little over a decade ago has done this,yet a club with the large potential we have cant do sh**! Just proves what a Libtard city we live in! Look at what the people of Horfield (where I grew up btw) did with the redevelopment of the Mem , then again with the sainsburys development. Look no further than the owners of the club first. If they wanted to build a stadium, they would.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 12:30:21 GMT
If theres one club that deserves it then its them.Very happy for them! But its crazy to think that a club that was not even created little over a decade ago has done this,yet a club with the large potential we have cant do sh**! Just proves what a Libtard city we live in! Look at what the people of Horfield (where I grew up btw) did with the redevelopment of the Mem , then again with the sainsburys development. Look no further than the owners of the club first. If they wanted to build a stadium, they would. I'm not sure even that's the case. These guys don't have the money to justify playing 'football league chairman'. Well, DS would be a perfect fit for a club like Accrington. But at a club that had the 6th highest average attendance in league one they are not up to it.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 7, 2019 12:37:23 GMT
All this takes money and the AQ's don't have enough to waste on such a loss making venture. Only way it will happen is if we could sell the Mem and use the cash to build somewhere cheaper. The fact we have a charge against the land counts that out so we are f**ked basically and anyone suggesting otherwise is with respect, deluded. Given the ALQ's via DS own both the Mem and the club I can't them having a charge on the former makes much difference as nothing will happen unless they want it to, charge or no charge.
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Post by BelieveItWhenIAmSatInIt on Mar 7, 2019 13:03:31 GMT
The reality is, if we genuinely wanted to redevelop them Mem then we would have started by now. I firmly believe that you could redevelop our stadium into something respectable both within the exiting footprint and indeed within a sensible budget.
Blackthorne end - Leave as is. For now at least this is in my opinion the only currently serviceable part of the ground.
South Stand - The easiest to sort by a long way! Quite simply pack up the existing tent and send it back to the circus with our thanks for a couple of decades of excellent service! Then in it's existing footprint build a basic all seater stand stretching the entire end of the pitch. This really would not be an expensive thing to do at all! No serious demolishing costs and the construction cost of a new stand to this spec would be minimal.
West Stand - Depending on budget / aspirations, this is where we could go one of two ways.. If we are going down the lines of a complete redevelopment this really needs to come down and be started again. I know this is the newest permanent stand we have, but quite frankly it is pretty bloody awful! Looks like a cricket pavilion and doesn't even stretch the entire length of the pitch! If it was down to me I would knock it down and once again (in a similar fashion to the proposed South stand) rebuild a new stand in the same footprint. A basic single tier stand once again, all seater. If we are gong down the 'polishing a turd' route, then I think we must bring the stand all the way down to the corner flags (demolishing the existing family terrace in the process) as a minimum.
East Terrace - Well this is where things get expensive! This in my opinion should be the centrepiece of our stadium, this stand should be a two tier all seater stand stretching the entire length of the pitch on that side. This stand could then house all corporate facilities (boxes, bars, club shop etc). We certainly have the space there and it just makes sense to me for this to be the central hub of our entire stadium. I loathe nothing more than looking over the neighbours fence longingly.. But if you ever wanted an example of the sort of thing I mean then see the hilariously named SL stand over at Trashton.
Of course this is all very easily typed on an internet forum... But I do firmly believe that something like this is achievable on our plot of land and wouldn't need to cost the world. It really does just depend on the ambition of our board and I would suggest that as we are now 2 years down the line and have heard absolutely nothing concrete in terms of any concrete plans for redevelopment that the ambition is servery lacking sadly.
Hope to be proved wrong of course.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 7, 2019 13:10:11 GMT
The reality is, if we genuinely wanted to redevelop them Mem then we would have started by now. I firmly believe that you could redevelop our stadium into something respectable both within the exiting footprint and indeed within a sensible budget. Blackthorne end - Leave as is. For now at least this is in my opinion the only currently serviceable part of the ground. South Stand - The easiest to sort by a long way! Quite simply pack up the existing tent and send it back to the circus with our thanks for a couple of decades of excellent service! Then in it's existing footprint build a basic all seater stand stretching the entire end of the pitch. This really would not be an expensive thing to do at all! No serious demolishing costs and the construction cost of a new stand to this spec would be minimal. West Stand - Depending on budget / aspirations, this is where we could go one of two ways.. If we are going down the lines of a complete redevelopment this really needs to come down and be started again. I know this is the newest permanent stand we have, but quite frankly it is pretty bloody awful! Looks like a cricket pavilion and doesn't even stretch the entire length of the pitch! If it was down to me I would knock it down and once again (in a similar fashion to the proposed South stand) rebuild a new stand in the same footprint. A basic single tier stand once again, all seater. If we are gong down the 'polishing a turd' route, then I think we must bring the stand all the way down to the corner flags (demolishing the existing family terrace in the process) as a minimum. East Terrace - Well this is where things get expensive! This in my opinion should be the centrepiece of our stadium, this stand should be a two tier all seater stand stretching the entire length of the pitch on that side. This stand could then house all corporate facilities (boxes, bars, club shop etc). We certainly have the space there and it just makes sense to me for this to be the central hub of our entire stadium. I loathe nothing more than looking over the neighbours fence longingly.. But if you ever wanted an example of the sort of thing I mean then see the hilariously named SL stand over at Trashton. Of course this is all very easily typed on an internet forum... But I do firmly believe that something like this is achievable on our plot of land and wouldn't need to cost the world. It really does just depend on the ambition of our board and I would suggest that as we are now 2 years down the line and have heard absolutely nothing concrete in terms of any concrete plans for redevelopment that the ambition is servery lacking sadly. Hope to be proved wrong of course. I might be wrong but I was under the impression that if the East Stand was extended the length of the pitch at its current height, this would cause a big issue with light restrictions on the properties behind? Similarly if the South Stand was extended to the South-East corner? Again I'm not certain on this but I seem to remember reading this in the past?
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Post by axegas on Mar 7, 2019 14:34:25 GMT
The reality is, if we genuinely wanted to redevelop them Mem then we would have started by now. I firmly believe that you could redevelop our stadium into something respectable both within the exiting footprint and indeed within a sensible budget. Blackthorne end - Leave as is. For now at least this is in my opinion the only currently serviceable part of the ground. South Stand - The easiest to sort by a long way! Quite simply pack up the existing tent and send it back to the circus with our thanks for a couple of decades of excellent service! Then in it's existing footprint build a basic all seater stand stretching the entire end of the pitch. This really would not be an expensive thing to do at all! No serious demolishing costs and the construction cost of a new stand to this spec would be minimal. West Stand - Depending on budget / aspirations, this is where we could go one of two ways.. If we are going down the lines of a complete redevelopment this really needs to come down and be started again. I know this is the newest permanent stand we have, but quite frankly it is pretty bloody awful! Looks like a cricket pavilion and doesn't even stretch the entire length of the pitch! If it was down to me I would knock it down and once again (in a similar fashion to the proposed South stand) rebuild a new stand in the same footprint. A basic single tier stand once again, all seater. If we are gong down the 'polishing a turd' route, then I think we must bring the stand all the way down to the corner flags (demolishing the existing family terrace in the process) as a minimum. East Terrace - Well this is where things get expensive! This in my opinion should be the centrepiece of our stadium, this stand should be a two tier all seater stand stretching the entire length of the pitch on that side. This stand could then house all corporate facilities (boxes, bars, club shop etc). We certainly have the space there and it just makes sense to me for this to be the central hub of our entire stadium. I loathe nothing more than looking over the neighbours fence longingly.. But if you ever wanted an example of the sort of thing I mean then see the hilariously named SL stand over at Trashton. Of course this is all very easily typed on an internet forum... But I do firmly believe that something like this is achievable on our plot of land and wouldn't need to cost the world. It really does just depend on the ambition of our board and I would suggest that as we are now 2 years down the line and have heard absolutely nothing concrete in terms of any concrete plans for redevelopment that the ambition is servery lacking sadly. Hope to be proved wrong of course. I might be wrong but I was under the impression that if the East Stand was extended the length of the pitch at its current height, this would cause a big issue with light restrictions on the properties behind? Similarly if the South Stand was extended to the South-East corner? Again I'm not certain on this but I seem to remember reading this in the past? Wasn’t that why Ed Ware bought up a couple of properties on the end of the street, in the original plans, directly behind the south stand so we would have a bit more space to play with? Whether a redevelopment of the mem is cost efficient I don’t know, but we seem to be faced with a distinct lack of opportunities with regards to convenient plots of land to develop upon at the moment, so a rebuild is at least worthy of consideration.
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Post by wertongas on Mar 7, 2019 14:42:04 GMT
The reality is, if we genuinely wanted to redevelop them Mem then we would have started by now. I firmly believe that you could redevelop our stadium into something respectable both within the exiting footprint and indeed within a sensible budget. Blackthorne end - Leave as is. For now at least this is in my opinion the only currently serviceable part of the ground. South Stand - The easiest to sort by a long way! Quite simply pack up the existing tent and send it back to the circus with our thanks for a couple of decades of excellent service! Then in it's existing footprint build a basic all seater stand stretching the entire end of the pitch. This really would not be an expensive thing to do at all! No serious demolishing costs and the construction cost of a new stand to this spec would be minimal. West Stand - Depending on budget / aspirations, this is where we could go one of two ways.. If we are going down the lines of a complete redevelopment this really needs to come down and be started again. I know this is the newest permanent stand we have, but quite frankly it is pretty bloody awful! Looks like a cricket pavilion and doesn't even stretch the entire length of the pitch! If it was down to me I would knock it down and once again (in a similar fashion to the proposed South stand) rebuild a new stand in the same footprint. A basic single tier stand once again, all seater. If we are gong down the 'polishing a turd' route, then I think we must bring the stand all the way down to the corner flags (demolishing the existing family terrace in the process) as a minimum. East Terrace - Well this is where things get expensive! This in my opinion should be the centrepiece of our stadium, this stand should be a two tier all seater stand stretching the entire length of the pitch on that side. This stand could then house all corporate facilities (boxes, bars, club shop etc). We certainly have the space there and it just makes sense to me for this to be the central hub of our entire stadium. I loathe nothing more than looking over the neighbours fence longingly.. But if you ever wanted an example of the sort of thing I mean then see the hilariously named SL stand over at Trashton. Of course this is all very easily typed on an internet forum... But I do firmly believe that something like this is achievable on our plot of land and wouldn't need to cost the world. It really does just depend on the ambition of our board and I would suggest that as we are now 2 years down the line and have heard absolutely nothing concrete in terms of any concrete plans for redevelopment that the ambition is servery lacking sadly. Hope to be proved wrong of course. I might be wrong but I was under the impression that if the East Stand was extended the length of the pitch at its current height, this would cause a big issue with light restrictions on the properties behind? Similarly if the South Stand was extended to the South-East corner? Again I'm not certain on this but I seem to remember reading this in the past? Having worked in planning my understanding is that there is no right to light other than vertical light which is why in law you have the right to cut back overhanging branches from your neighbours trees to the boundary. In view of this it would be difficult for a planners to turn down an application on light restrictions alone. As there is already a tall two tier stand on the site any new stands should be allowed to be constructed to the height of the existing stand. I agree that we should stay at the Mem, I would rather we played in a developed 16,000 capacity stadium that is our own than be in the situation Coventry are in, that when ever they are in financial problems they have the prospect of being kicked out of the league hanging over them. We played non league football for one season and that was enough.
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Post by farmygas on Mar 7, 2019 15:29:39 GMT
I go on about this all the time, completely agree. Blackthorn End - Yep. We don't have much room at the South cuz of the houses, everyone knows this, fine. Take down those bloody awful tents and bung up a stand like Accrington Stanley have just done. This should be the bare minimum and I can't believe we're still looking at these things. For the South West tent, acquire a small seated easily-erected metal stand that you can see at any Western League ground. For the East Stand, stick something like what Bath are doing underneath what we already have. All seated, covered (except the bit covered by the current upper East Stand). This would create a mostly covered stadium with ample seating and no f**king tents. Yes it's not a 21,700 all seater but I'd rather see tangible improvements to what we have than eternal pie in the sky. It's got to the point where they could say we're going to do this but it's going to take 10 years and I'd still be over the moon. Unless we are poorer than Accrington Stanley and Bath City (and remember we can apply for grants) I can't see any reason why we can't go down this road. Unless there's no will to spend on infrastructure from the AQs of course.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 7, 2019 15:34:41 GMT
I might be wrong but I was under the impression that if the East Stand was extended the length of the pitch at its current height, this would cause a big issue with light restrictions on the properties behind? Similarly if the South Stand was extended to the South-East corner? Again I'm not certain on this but I seem to remember reading this in the past? Having worked in planning my understanding is that there is no right to light other than vertical light which is why in law you have the right to cut back overhanging branches from your neighbours trees to the boundary. In view of this it would be difficult for a planners to turn down an application on light restrictions alone. As there is already a tall two tier stand on the site any new stands should be allowed to be constructed to the height of the existing stand. I agree that we should stay at the Mem, I would rather we played in a developed 16,000 capacity stadium that is our own than be in the situation Coventry are in, that when ever they are in financial problems they have the prospect of being kicked out of the league hanging over them. We played non league football for one season and that was enough. By new stands do you mean only in regards a new East Stand? My understanding was that City couldn't make the Atyeo any higher because of neighbouring properties, despite the other stands being higher?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 15:49:21 GMT
There'd have been a bigger plot to play with if past owners hadn't built houses on it. Sadly that deal was done before we even played at The Mem. We were committed to complete the deal after we acquired ownership.
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Post by wertongas on Mar 7, 2019 15:55:34 GMT
Having worked in planning my understanding is that there is no right to light other than vertical light which is why in law you have the right to cut back overhanging branches from your neighbours trees to the boundary. In view of this it would be difficult for a planners to turn down an application on light restrictions alone. As there is already a tall two tier stand on the site any new stands should be allowed to be constructed to the height of the existing stand. I agree that we should stay at the Mem, I would rather we played in a developed 16,000 capacity stadium that is our own than be in the situation Coventry are in, that when ever they are in financial problems they have the prospect of being kicked out of the league hanging over them. We played non league football for one season and that was enough. By new stands do you mean only in regards a new East Stand? My understanding was that City couldn't make the Atyeo any higher because of neighbouring properties, despite the other stands being higher? yes I was referring to the east side of the ground, although we did get permission for a tall stand on the northside on one of the clubs previous planning permissions . Certainly would only be able to have a low stand on the south side, as space is limited.
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Post by lpgas on Mar 7, 2019 15:58:32 GMT
Great for Wimbledon, best of luck to them; although it makes my blood boil, when I think about the state of our club under the ownership of WAQ & family, if they do not want to invest then I wish they would sell up and go. Why? Higgs didn't invest? I think you thing the Al Qadis have a lot of money. They have more than Higgs, but not huge amounts
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