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Post by faggotygas on Jul 18, 2019 11:38:37 GMT
I remain on the fence over GC as Manager. he deserved the chance by keeping us up but so far IMO his summer dealings have been a bit of a disaster as he has NOT improved on what was a shocking aspect of the team- pace ,creativity and goals.We are left in a position where at the moment we have three strikers other than JCH none of whom has a goalscoring record over the past season and the youngster Deon Moore.Why we signed Smith I just don't know as it seems desperation to sign him when he is about as physical as Reilly and Nichols,neither of whom have done much and the thought of getting Jacubiak back now as well tells me that GC has failed miserably on the attacking front and also has fail;ed to bring in any attacking midfeld players. I agreed with getting rid of Lines but only with a suitable replacement. The same now goes for keeping or releasing Bennett- does anybody think that GC is capable of bringing in better?? Theres been a lot of gas from GC but action speaks louder than words and big scores against crap teams, a draw against a national league team and a 2-0 win against Bath are not going to suddenly make us any better than last season- in fact I think even defence wise we will struggle without Lockyers pace. At the moment I am prepared to give GC the benefit of doubtbut IMO striker was the one position we should have put the boat out to get a "Ched Evans" that would have guaranteed goals but also put out a message that the owners are really interested- not convinced myself at all that they are but we shall see. Ah, that old 'guarantees goals' thing. How do you guarantee goals?
The usual answer is, they have a consistent goalscoring record, and one reasonable definition of this is that they have a record of consistently scoring 15 league goals or more in a League 1 season. Out of last season's top goalscorers in League 1, before last season:
James Collins has this record. Lyle Taylor had only once before scored 15 or more league goals in a season. John Marquis had only done it once before and his one goalscoring season was in League 2. Tom Eaves had only done it once before. Ian Henderson had done it twice before, so might have fitted the criteria, although only scored 13 league goals in 16/17. Freddie Ladapo had never done it before, in fact had a pretty rubbish goalscoring record. Ched Evans, the answer to all out prayers apparently. But before last season, he'd only had one previous season in which he scored more than 10 goals, and that was 7 years ago. In 16/17, he scored 5 goals in 25 league games. Keiffer Moore - only one previous season ion which he scored 15 or more league goals, and that included a run of 4 goals in 20 games in the Championship. Ivan Toney - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season. Cauley Woodrow - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season. Jonson Clarke-Harris - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season.
So, out of last season's top goalscorers, there was only one, maybe two players who you could say 'guaranteed' goals.
What I'm saying is, signing a goalscorer is not as easy as some seem to make out. Without using the power of hindsight, they aren't that easy to predict.
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Post by spiess1 on Jul 18, 2019 12:06:58 GMT
Guaranteed goals, Steve, …..um...……..Jimmy Greaves, Allan Shearer, Sergio Agüero, um....um....
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Marshy
Proper Gas
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Post by Marshy on Jul 18, 2019 12:22:54 GMT
Guaranteed goals, Steve, …..um...……..Jimmy Greaves, Allan Shearer, Sergio Agüero, um....um.... Every hole is a goal.
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Post by tomylil on Jul 18, 2019 12:51:56 GMT
I remain on the fence over GC as Manager. he deserved the chance by keeping us up but so far IMO his summer dealings have been a bit of a disaster as he has NOT improved on what was a shocking aspect of the team- pace ,creativity and goals.We are left in a position where at the moment we have three strikers other than JCH none of whom has a goalscoring record over the past season and the youngster Deon Moore.Why we signed Smith I just don't know as it seems desperation to sign him when he is about as physical as Reilly and Nichols,neither of whom have done much and the thought of getting Jacubiak back now as well tells me that GC has failed miserably on the attacking front and also has fail;ed to bring in any attacking midfeld players. I agreed with getting rid of Lines but only with a suitable replacement. The same now goes for keeping or releasing Bennett- does anybody think that GC is capable of bringing in better?? Theres been a lot of gas from GC but action speaks louder than words and big scores against crap teams, a draw against a national league team and a 2-0 win against Bath are not going to suddenly make us any better than last season- in fact I think even defence wise we will struggle without Lockyers pace. At the moment I am prepared to give GC the benefit of doubtbut IMO striker was the one position we should have put the boat out to get a "Ched Evans" that would have guaranteed goals but also put out a message that the owners are really interested- not convinced myself at all that they are but we shall see. Totally agree with your comments Steve -- With the current squad I reckon we will be lucky to stay up. I think we might surprise a few teams. Can't see us going down to be honest we are much harder to beat with GC at the helm.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 18, 2019 12:56:00 GMT
I remain on the fence over GC as Manager. he deserved the chance by keeping us up but so far IMO his summer dealings have been a bit of a disaster as he has NOT improved on what was a shocking aspect of the team- pace ,creativity and goals.We are left in a position where at the moment we have three strikers other than JCH none of whom has a goalscoring record over the past season and the youngster Deon Moore.Why we signed Smith I just don't know as it seems desperation to sign him when he is about as physical as Reilly and Nichols,neither of whom have done much and the thought of getting Jacubiak back now as well tells me that GC has failed miserably on the attacking front and also has fail;ed to bring in any attacking midfeld players. I agreed with getting rid of Lines but only with a suitable replacement. The same now goes for keeping or releasing Bennett- does anybody think that GC is capable of bringing in better?? Theres been a lot of gas from GC but action speaks louder than words and big scores against crap teams, a draw against a national league team and a 2-0 win against Bath are not going to suddenly make us any better than last season- in fact I think even defence wise we will struggle without Lockyers pace. At the moment I am prepared to give GC the benefit of doubtbut IMO striker was the one position we should have put the boat out to get a "Ched Evans" that would have guaranteed goals but also put out a message that the owners are really interested- not convinced myself at all that they are but we shall see. Steve you say push the boat out but surely only the owners can do that, failing which GC has to work with what he's given? Although we've no real idea what GC has lined up between now and the end of the transfer windows, permanents and loans. GC talks about "players" leaving if the likes of Bennett do live that should free up some playing budget for forwards.
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Post by axegas on Jul 18, 2019 16:02:56 GMT
Interesting that Coventry value striker Connor Chaplin, who we were in for last summer at £1,000,000 and he managed 8 goals for them last season. Considering JCH scored double that at 16 and has a couple of years left on his contract, I wouldn’t even be considering offers lower than £1,750,000 in today’s inflated market. The ball is in our court for once and I’m not expecting him to be sold but we’ll see.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jul 18, 2019 16:32:47 GMT
Coming into this thread fresh is interesting, having had no previous exposure to it, or any tit-for-tat reactions to what someone else posts...
Classic forum behaviour here.
Surely there is a lot of sense in what many people have written. No real need to argue over it.
1) players do sometimes have relegation clauses in their contract (e.g. JJ O'Toole) as they feel they are playing at or even below the level they can, and don't want to go lower. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he had / has one. Nothing massively weird about that or needs blame from either side.
2) players also sometimes have general release fee clauses. Again, not necessarily strange or wrong. Each contract is signed on an individual basis, and as someone said, buying a player literally in the last seconds of a transfer window (he rushed from Rotherham) puts you in a weak position.
What the reality is in this exact case is not worth 'fighting' over.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jul 18, 2019 16:43:59 GMT
Guaranteed goals, Steve, …..um...……..Jimmy Greaves, Allan Shearer, Sergio Agüero, um....um.... Yes, although we can add Eusebio, Pele, Brian Clough, John Ward and maybe Paul Tait.
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Post by spiess1 on Jul 18, 2019 16:51:30 GMT
I'm disappointed no-one has added Lamberto and Curetinho.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 18, 2019 17:54:33 GMT
Interesting that Coventry value striker Connor Chaplin, who we were in for last summer at £1,000,000 and he managed 8 goals for them last season. Considering JCH scored double that at 16 and has a couple of years left on his contract, I wouldn’t even be considering offers lower than £1,750,000 in today’s inflated market. The ball is in our court for once and I’m not expecting him to be sold but we’ll see. Chaplin is a strange one, I think he has so much more potential that he has shown so far.
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Post by neilv93 on Jul 18, 2019 18:48:29 GMT
Hopefully Pirate it's not one of those "must get him off the payroll" moves where we always seem to lose out. Over the years we have been very niave on transfer dealings, it will be interesting to see if we got the standard (according to the news story they are!)10% selling clause when Ellis moved recently. With all your knowledge are there no youngsters out there whoe are quick wingers who could see us as a stepping stone and a money-maker for us? Although not an out and out winger, I would do everything I could to bring 20-year-old left footer Callum Gribbin to the club on a free. He can play wide or centrally and has so much potential it's unbelievable...potentially Prem quality ability. 22-year-old Callum Roberts is another left footer with a lot of potential still on a free that could do a good job and make a few quid in the future. Marcus Browne has reportedly been told he can leave West Ham. Another who can play wide or centrally, he impressed on loan at Oxford last season. He might cost a few quid, but would make us money in the future. I like Michael Fernandes at Farnborough, but he has signed for Colchester this summer. 19-year-old Brad Lynch at Curzon Ashton will play higher one day. Further afield youngsters like Sinan Kurt and Vince Gino Dekker are good players available on frees. Probably slightly difficult tbh as it seems he's retired (or certainly taking a lengthy sabbatical from football) due to mental health and injury issues. Man Utd Reddit is confident, anyway: www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/bxxmqw/callum_gribbin_has_given_up_on_football/
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jul 18, 2019 18:54:51 GMT
I remain on the fence over GC as Manager. he deserved the chance by keeping us up but so far IMO his summer dealings have been a bit of a disaster as he has NOT improved on what was a shocking aspect of the team- pace ,creativity and goals.We are left in a position where at the moment we have three strikers other than JCH none of whom has a goalscoring record over the past season and the youngster Deon Moore.Why we signed Smith I just don't know as it seems desperation to sign him when he is about as physical as Reilly and Nichols,neither of whom have done much and the thought of getting Jacubiak back now as well tells me that GC has failed miserably on the attacking front and also has fail;ed to bring in any attacking midfeld players. I agreed with getting rid of Lines but only with a suitable replacement. The same now goes for keeping or releasing Bennett- does anybody think that GC is capable of bringing in better?? Theres been a lot of gas from GC but action speaks louder than words and big scores against crap teams, a draw against a national league team and a 2-0 win against Bath are not going to suddenly make us any better than last season- in fact I think even defence wise we will struggle without Lockyers pace. At the moment I am prepared to give GC the benefit of doubtbut IMO striker was the one position we should have put the boat out to get a "Ched Evans" that would have guaranteed goals but also put out a message that the owners are really interested- not convinced myself at all that they are but we shall see. Totally agree with your comments Steve -- With the current squad I reckon we will be lucky to stay up. disagree, with Tom Nich and JCH doing a smash and grab this next season i see us doing very well
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 18, 2019 19:16:51 GMT
I remain on the fence over GC as Manager. he deserved the chance by keeping us up but so far IMO his summer dealings have been a bit of a disaster as he has NOT improved on what was a shocking aspect of the team- pace ,creativity and goals.We are left in a position where at the moment we have three strikers other than JCH none of whom has a goalscoring record over the past season and the youngster Deon Moore.Why we signed Smith I just don't know as it seems desperation to sign him when he is about as physical as Reilly and Nichols,neither of whom have done much and the thought of getting Jacubiak back now as well tells me that GC has failed miserably on the attacking front and also has fail;ed to bring in any attacking midfeld players. I agreed with getting rid of Lines but only with a suitable replacement. The same now goes for keeping or releasing Bennett- does anybody think that GC is capable of bringing in better?? Theres been a lot of gas from GC but action speaks louder than words and big scores against crap teams, a draw against a national league team and a 2-0 win against Bath are not going to suddenly make us any better than last season- in fact I think even defence wise we will struggle without Lockyers pace. At the moment I am prepared to give GC the benefit of doubtbut IMO striker was the one position we should have put the boat out to get a "Ched Evans" that would have guaranteed goals but also put out a message that the owners are really interested- not convinced myself at all that they are but we shall see. Ah, that old 'guarantees goals' thing. How do you guarantee goals?
The usual answer is, they have a consistent goalscoring record, and one reasonable definition of this is that they have a record of consistently scoring 15 league goals or more in a League 1 season. Out of last season's top goalscorers in League 1, before last season:
James Collins has this record. Lyle Taylor had only once before scored 15 or more league goals in a season. John Marquis had only done it once before and his one goalscoring season was in League 2. Tom Eaves had only done it once before. Ian Henderson had done it twice before, so might have fitted the criteria, although only scored 13 league goals in 16/17. Freddie Ladapo had never done it before, in fact had a pretty rubbish goalscoring record. Ched Evans, the answer to all out prayers apparently. But before last season, he'd only had one previous season in which he scored more than 10 goals, and that was 7 years ago. In 16/17, he scored 5 goals in 25 league games. Keiffer Moore - only one previous season ion which he scored 15 or more league goals, and that included a run of 4 goals in 20 games in the Championship. Ivan Toney - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season. Cauley Woodrow - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season. Jonson Clarke-Harris - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season.
So, out of last season's top goalscorers, there was only one, maybe two players who you could say 'guaranteed' goals.
What I'm saying is, signing a goalscorer is not as easy as some seem to make out. Without using the power of hindsight, they aren't that easy to predict.
Agree faggoty. You can push the boat out as others have said but there are no guarantees. Never have been, never will be. Sometimes there is a greater likelihood but nothing more. GC has done a good job so far in his new buys but we do need more pace, creativity and width in the squad so we’ll have to be patient and if it doesn’t come I guess we’ll see how good GC is in manoeuvring the squad to overcome the gaps we’ll have in attack and midfield. I’ve never been convinced that we’d get any width anyway as I’m not sure GC wants to play with them. No surprise that his first signing was Mark Little, a FB who will be good going forward, Hare and Leary can play the same way. Don’t get me wrong, Id love us to sign a 20 goal a season forward but they’re probably not out there in our price bracket. I’d like us to sign something exciting from non league but they are more expensive nowadays but whoever we get will come with no guarantees. UTG!
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Post by c4h10 on Jul 18, 2019 22:00:54 GMT
Totally agree with your comments Steve -- With the current squad I reckon we will be lucky to stay up. disagree, with Tom Nich and JCH doing a smash and grab this next season i see us doing very well Hard-drives might fly.
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Post by madgas on Jul 19, 2019 7:14:21 GMT
I remain on the fence over GC as Manager. he deserved the chance by keeping us up but so far IMO his summer dealings have been a bit of a disaster as he has NOT improved on what was a shocking aspect of the team- pace ,creativity and goals.We are left in a position where at the moment we have three strikers other than JCH none of whom has a goalscoring record over the past season and the youngster Deon Moore.Why we signed Smith I just don't know as it seems desperation to sign him when he is about as physical as Reilly and Nichols,neither of whom have done much and the thought of getting Jacubiak back now as well tells me that GC has failed miserably on the attacking front and also has fail;ed to bring in any attacking midfeld players. I agreed with getting rid of Lines but only with a suitable replacement. The same now goes for keeping or releasing Bennett- does anybody think that GC is capable of bringing in better?? Theres been a lot of gas from GC but action speaks louder than words and big scores against crap teams, a draw against a national league team and a 2-0 win against Bath are not going to suddenly make us any better than last season- in fact I think even defence wise we will struggle without Lockyers pace. At the moment I am prepared to give GC the benefit of doubtbut IMO striker was the one position we should have put the boat out to get a "Ched Evans" that would have guaranteed goals but also put out a message that the owners are really interested- not convinced myself at all that they are but we shall see. Ah, that old 'guarantees goals' thing. How do you guarantee goals?
The usual answer is, they have a consistent goalscoring record, and one reasonable definition of this is that they have a record of consistently scoring 15 league goals or more in a League 1 season. Out of last season's top goalscorers in League 1, before last season:
James Collins has this record. Lyle Taylor had only once before scored 15 or more league goals in a season. John Marquis had only done it once before and his one goalscoring season was in League 2. Tom Eaves had only done it once before. Ian Henderson had done it twice before, so might have fitted the criteria, although only scored 13 league goals in 16/17. Freddie Ladapo had never done it before, in fact had a pretty rubbish goalscoring record. Ched Evans, the answer to all out prayers apparently. But before last season, he'd only had one previous season in which he scored more than 10 goals, and that was 7 years ago. In 16/17, he scored 5 goals in 25 league games. Keiffer Moore - only one previous season ion which he scored 15 or more league goals, and that included a run of 4 goals in 20 games in the Championship. Ivan Toney - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season. Cauley Woodrow - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season. Jonson Clarke-Harris - had never previously scored 15 goals in a season.
So, out of last season's top goalscorers, there was only one, maybe two players who you could say 'guaranteed' goals.
What I'm saying is, signing a goalscorer is not as easy as some seem to make out. Without using the power of hindsight, they aren't that easy to predict.
I really get the sentiment. Nothing is guaranteed and I think I've made it before. However, I think its fair to say that many of those names had been muted before. With maybe the only exception being JCH. So people can predict these things. It's about getting the best of what we have. We're not as desperate for this or that as many are suggesting. We appear to have a super striker. Some adequate support. I believe theres goals and assists in: Bennett, Clarke, Sercombe and rodders. We look stronger at fullback. If the Gks and CBs prove to be good- we"ll be alright.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 19, 2019 10:06:24 GMT
If we can't now afford a replacement for Lines it does make you wonder why we let him go, as I doubt Northampton are paying him mega bucks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 10:10:52 GMT
If we can't now afford a replacement for Lines it does make you wonder why we let him go, as I doubt Northampton are paying him mega bucks. Could it be that GC doesn't have a need for creative midfield players, as the ball will often bypass them anyway? Cynical perhaps, but aside from the obvious personality clash between GC and CL, there doesn't seem to be any hint of this sort of player being brought in. Maybe he doesn't want that type of player?
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Post by lastminutewinner on Jul 19, 2019 11:19:09 GMT
If we can't now afford a replacement for Lines it does make you wonder why we let him go, as I doubt Northampton are paying him mega bucks. Could it be that GC doesn't have a need for creative midfield players, as the ball will often bypass them anyway? Cynical perhaps, but aside from the obvious personality clash between GC and CL, there doesn't seem to be any hint of this sort of player being brought in. Maybe he doesn't want that type of player?
That's why he signed JCH as he could create goals himself and score from 30 yards.
Seriously though we need 'an Oztumer' to create things rather than rely on JCH to carry us. We always play so much better when the ball is kept on the ground
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Post by eastgas on Jul 19, 2019 11:29:34 GMT
People are talking about a creative midfielder, and I agree that we need one but it seems to me from preseason so far, that out creativity and chances are going to come from the full back positions. It looks as though we are going to go with a solid central midfield set defensively and look to get our fullbacks bombing forward getting in lots of crosses. This may work as little and leahy seem very capable players. We have our more testing games coming up over the next week and will be interesting to see if GC sets us up this way again.
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Post by glengas on Jul 19, 2019 11:48:13 GMT
Totally agree with your comments Steve -- With the current squad I reckon we will be lucky to stay up. disagree, with Tom Nich and JCH doing a smash and grab this next season i see us doing very well Blimey, if we are relying on Nichols getting goals we could be in trouble. Would love to see him come good, but how many more chances can the bloke get.
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