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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 11:18:03 GMT
It's meant to be for the lorries to charge up while they are moving. See all the pillars, the overhead bars, the cables.......not too much metal involved then ? This test section is 5km long, both sides of the autobahn, and only cost 14.5 million! What a bargain.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Nov 19, 2019 12:04:39 GMT
I think after reading everybodies opinions and about EV and Non EV cars, i'm heading towards an efficient diesel car, Maybe the New peugeot 2008 which is out soon
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Post by gashead1981 on Nov 19, 2019 12:34:15 GMT
Some good points but... 1. Whilst most electric is from a general renewable source, it won’t be if we need to produce more electric to drive around 5m+ cars in the UK. You will just be moving the environmental impact somewhere else with a different ecological effect. What are we going to do with all the nuclear waste? Where will we build the additional powertstations? Who will pay for them? What will there carbon footprint be? 2. Mining and production of lithium ion is not ethical and neither is it environmentally friendly. Have you seen a lithium farm and the treatment on workers within it? Now they want to start mining the ocean floors because what’s on the earths surface is depleting rapidly, around about 10 years left. So what ecological damage is that going to do? 3. Cost of lithium ion is massively expensive to produce and service/repair. My workshop has already replaced 3 hi voltage units on Mercedes vehicles each unit at a cost of £6500+vat on vehicles 4-5 years old worth approx £14k in value. That cost will only rise with demand not decrease with time. Especially when you consider point 2. 4. EVs have been around since the 50s in various guises, the current EV and hybrid technology since 2001 when Toyota started loss leading their Prius range with it. (That’s correct, they need to keep selling their 4x4 and normal range to pay for it and still do, hence the tie up between BMW and Daimler, and other leading manufacturers to try and reduce this cost). The core functions of that set up hasn’t changed a great deal in design and if anything they have increased in weight with additional electronic technology and the range is still only 400 miles at best. 5. Because of point 4 it’s impossible for governments to subsidise any form of grant or scrap page scheme to make it cost viable via the taxpayer. So the only way to do it is to kick the diesel owner into submission even when you look at the whole argument and say at the moment, it still isn’t viable. I had an opportunity to buy a new hybrid last year and I seriously considered it, borrowed one for the weekend to see how it would stack up against a new Euro 6 equipped diesel. I couldn’t justify the additional cost of it for starters, it was 15mpg worse than the diesel across most types of driving and was heavier on the benefit in kind for company car users 137g/km vs 117g/km for the diesel. Full EV is way out of my league for depreciation costs and life span cycle of battery (see my comment above on Tesla and Jag) as it would be for most family budgets. 1. Sure and that's a good point, but realistically not everyone tomorrow will own an electric car. It's about taking incremental steps in the right direction, as humanity has always done - it takes time. You can pretty much compare it to anything - as a random one take homophobia or racism. In the UK, we didn't just one day become non-racist. It took time, social values had to change which then influenced others to come along, with then the new generation coming through and taking that as the norm. That's how I view this issue, which we already see for 18-30's, they're much more passionate about the environment and cars than the 40+ (on average). For me, creating a scenario where 'if everyone did it, then they wouldn't be good for the environment, therefore I won't do it' isn't a strong enough point. 2. Kinda of similar to my point above. No, I haven't seen it and I'm sure it's terrible - but is that enough of a point to not buy one, or at least buy into the idea? (two very separate things). What are the working conditions like for the World Cup 2022 in Qatar? How many people have died building those stadiums in slavery? Will you therefore boycott watching the game and call for England to boycott? What about many of the food we buy? 3. I can't argue anything on price, it needs to improve. The best thing that people can do (if they can afford it) is to buy on finance, that way within 3 years you'll get the next model with the improved technology and having a greener car. 4. My expertise on cars internal workings and set up is clearly not to your knowledge, neither the understanding of cars back in 2000, since I was born in 1991. However, the increase/improvement in the last few years has gone up quite a bit since demand has grown. Car companies will be forced (especially in the UK & France who have laws that new cars must be electric by 2040) to adapt and create better technology if they want to keep any sort of market share in the UK. Otherwise, there will be someone who will undercut them. 5. Our government needs to do a lot more in investing in all aspects of EV's and renewable energy in general. It's one thing to make a law, but another to actually implement it. Whilst I don't think the diesel ban is the right idea to do it, I personally believe it's a step in the right direction to awareness, changing people's minds & changing social values around the subject. I don't blame anyone within reason for not owning an EV, I don't.. But I don't own a car (I'm super green ) as I live in Slovakia and like much more of Europe, the public transport is better and cheaper than it is in the UK, so I don't need one in the same way. The UK really needs to improve this fact, especially Bristol specifically. 1. I get what you are saying, but they are picking on the incorrect industry to start the process with. They need to look at the defence, aerospace and shipping industries first, if you are looking at it purely from a footprint perspective. The technology can then be reversed engineered into cars which affects the consumer for cost a lot less than if a multi-billion dollar company such as Boeing who probably contribute more to damaging environment to the world than any car maker pick up the tab and not us. Especially when you look at the cost vs shelf life. 2. Don't get me wrong, the idea of EV is brilliant, but it relies on many things that internal combustion engine was designed and built to negate or avoid and when you crunch the numbers of it, trying to replace the internal combustion engine with full EV then it is literally robbing Peter to pay Paul both financially and environmentally speaking. You can't have a soap box to condemn the ICE to death and yet want to slave trade a load South Americans to mine the lithium and also pollute the planet with nuclear waste the next as well, should we need to go down that route. The increase/demand has only gone up through a lack of knowledge or understanding and scare tactics by various governments. 3. You cannot expect the average 2.4 family to finance £50k, even on a PCP agreement for 3 years, that would land at a cost of about £500 per month plus a deposit especially when these people may not even own their own homes. 4. Car companies cannot afford the investments on their own. Thats the issue. BMW and Daimler have joined together, VAG with Ford, GM and Honda have also done the same. And yet its still not producing technology good enough at a reasonable cost. No one will undercut them, Dyson has realised he can't. Tesla are losing money hand over fist. Google is trying to sell off its EV and autonomous division. Its not about building the product, anyone can do that, but what Dyson realised was that mass production, dealership franchises and aftersales support will be key, and no start up will be able to roll all of that out and take out a big player like VAG and the real reason why they would do it, which is ROI just isnt there. 5. I agree with you on point 5.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Nov 19, 2019 13:48:06 GMT
1. Sure and that's a good point, but realistically not everyone tomorrow will own an electric car. It's about taking incremental steps in the right direction, as humanity has always done - it takes time. You can pretty much compare it to anything - as a random one take homophobia or racism. In the UK, we didn't just one day become non-racist. It took time, social values had to change which then influenced others to come along, with then the new generation coming through and taking that as the norm. That's how I view this issue, which we already see for 18-30's, they're much more passionate about the environment and cars than the 40+ (on average). For me, creating a scenario where 'if everyone did it, then they wouldn't be good for the environment, therefore I won't do it' isn't a strong enough point. 2. Kinda of similar to my point above. No, I haven't seen it and I'm sure it's terrible - but is that enough of a point to not buy one, or at least buy into the idea? (two very separate things). What are the working conditions like for the World Cup 2022 in Qatar? How many people have died building those stadiums in slavery? Will you therefore boycott watching the game and call for England to boycott? What about many of the food we buy? 3. I can't argue anything on price, it needs to improve. The best thing that people can do (if they can afford it) is to buy on finance, that way within 3 years you'll get the next model with the improved technology and having a greener car. 4. My expertise on cars internal workings and set up is clearly not to your knowledge, neither the understanding of cars back in 2000, since I was born in 1991. However, the increase/improvement in the last few years has gone up quite a bit since demand has grown. Car companies will be forced (especially in the UK & France who have laws that new cars must be electric by 2040) to adapt and create better technology if they want to keep any sort of market share in the UK. Otherwise, there will be someone who will undercut them. 5. Our government needs to do a lot more in investing in all aspects of EV's and renewable energy in general. It's one thing to make a law, but another to actually implement it. Whilst I don't think the diesel ban is the right idea to do it, I personally believe it's a step in the right direction to awareness, changing people's minds & changing social values around the subject. I don't blame anyone within reason for not owning an EV, I don't.. But I don't own a car (I'm super green ) as I live in Slovakia and like much more of Europe, the public transport is better and cheaper than it is in the UK, so I don't need one in the same way. The UK really needs to improve this fact, especially Bristol specifically. 1. I get what you are saying, but they are picking on the incorrect industry to start the process with. They need to look at the defence, aerospace and shipping industries first, if you are looking at it purely from a footprint perspective. The technology can then be reversed engineered into cars which affects the consumer for cost a lot less than if a multi-billion dollar company such as Boeing who probably contribute more to damaging environment to the world than any car maker pick up the tab and not us. Especially when you look at the cost vs shelf life. 2. Don't get me wrong, the idea of EV is brilliant, but it relies on many things that internal combustion engine was designed and built to negate or avoid and when you crunch the numbers of it, trying to replace the internal combustion engine with full EV then it is literally robbing Peter to pay Paul both financially and environmentally speaking. You can't have a soap box to condemn the ICE to death and yet want to slave trade a load South Americans to mine the lithium and also pollute the planet with nuclear waste the next as well, should we need to go down that route. The increase/demand has only gone up through a lack of knowledge or understanding and scare tactics by various governments. 3. You cannot expect the average 2.4 family to finance £50k, even on a PCP agreement for 3 years, that would land at a cost of about £500 per month plus a deposit especially when these people may not even own their own homes. 4. Car companies cannot afford the investments on their own. Thats the issue. BMW and Daimler have joined together, VAG with Ford, GM and Honda have also done the same. And yet its still not producing technology good enough at a reasonable cost. No one will undercut them, Dyson has realised he can't. Tesla are losing money hand over fist. Google is trying to sell off its EV and autonomous division. Its not about building the product, anyone can do that, but what Dyson realised was that mass production, dealership franchises and aftersales support will be key, and no start up will be able to roll all of that out and take out a big player like VAG and the real reason why they would do it, which is ROI just isnt there. 5. I agree with you on point 5. A recent report by the United Nations about climate change stated that most CO2 is produced in growing, maintaining and transportation Cows and their infrastructure ( Crops to Transport of product) The simple solution is simple - Kill all the cows and replace them with Buffalo which only produce a very small amount of Methane. Also did you know that the Fashion Industry produce twice as much CO2 as all the flying operations in the world... So lets get our priorities in order and leave the poor motorist alone until you sort these two problems out
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 19, 2019 14:03:09 GMT
1. I get what you are saying, but they are picking on the incorrect industry to start the process with. They need to look at the defence, aerospace and shipping industries first, if you are looking at it purely from a footprint perspective. The technology can then be reversed engineered into cars which affects the consumer for cost a lot less than if a multi-billion dollar company such as Boeing who probably contribute more to damaging environment to the world than any car maker pick up the tab and not us. Especially when you look at the cost vs shelf life. 2. Don't get me wrong, the idea of EV is brilliant, but it relies on many things that internal combustion engine was designed and built to negate or avoid and when you crunch the numbers of it, trying to replace the internal combustion engine with full EV then it is literally robbing Peter to pay Paul both financially and environmentally speaking. You can't have a soap box to condemn the ICE to death and yet want to slave trade a load South Americans to mine the lithium and also pollute the planet with nuclear waste the next as well, should we need to go down that route. The increase/demand has only gone up through a lack of knowledge or understanding and scare tactics by various governments. 3. You cannot expect the average 2.4 family to finance £50k, even on a PCP agreement for 3 years, that would land at a cost of about £500 per month plus a deposit especially when these people may not even own their own homes. 4. Car companies cannot afford the investments on their own. Thats the issue. BMW and Daimler have joined together, VAG with Ford, GM and Honda have also done the same. And yet its still not producing technology good enough at a reasonable cost. No one will undercut them, Dyson has realised he can't. Tesla are losing money hand over fist. Google is trying to sell off its EV and autonomous division. Its not about building the product, anyone can do that, but what Dyson realised was that mass production, dealership franchises and aftersales support will be key, and no start up will be able to roll all of that out and take out a big player like VAG and the real reason why they would do it, which is ROI just isnt there. 5. I agree with you on point 5. A recent report by the United Nations about climate change stated that most CO2 is produced in growing, maintaining and transportation Cows and their infrastructure ( Crops to Transport of product) The simple solution is simple - Kill all the cows and replace them with Buffalo which only produce a very small amount of Methane. Also did you know that the Fashion Industry produce twice as much CO2 as all the flying operations in the world... So lets get our priorities in order and leave the poor motorist alone until you sort these two problems out Why not tackle both? As has been pointed out, the diesel issue is about city centre air quality, not CO2. As petrol is a limited commodity which will run out at some point, what is the alternative? The average motorist can't afford to change but government can help industry and infrastructure which in turn will make it easier and cheaper. We have to start somewhere.
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Post by gashead1981 on Nov 19, 2019 14:09:15 GMT
A recent report by the United Nations about climate change stated that most CO2 is produced in growing, maintaining and transportation Cows and their infrastructure ( Crops to Transport of product) The simple solution is simple - Kill all the cows and replace them with Buffalo which only produce a very small amount of Methane. Also did you know that the Fashion Industry produce twice as much CO2 as all the flying operations in the world... So lets get our priorities in order and leave the poor motorist alone until you sort these two problems out Why not tackle both? As has been pointed out, the diesel issue is about city centre air quality, not CO2. As petrol is a limited commodity which will run out at some point, what is the alternative? The average motorist can't afford to change but government can help industry and infrastructure which in turn will make it easier and cheaper. We have to start somewhere. I’m not against clear air qualities and driving diesels in built up areas. Mighty sensible imo. But it’s the constant scaremongering of buying diesel vs EV like you are some kind of devil if you do that is wrong. Especially as there are far more polluting industries that could help tackle the problem of CO2, Methane, NOx and HC which is the real issue. Especially when it’s the extortionate cost that it is for no overall gain.
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 19, 2019 14:14:07 GMT
Why not tackle both? As has been pointed out, the diesel issue is about city centre air quality, not CO2. As petrol is a limited commodity which will run out at some point, what is the alternative? The average motorist can't afford to change but government can help industry and infrastructure which in turn will make it easier and cheaper. We have to start somewhere. I’m not against clear air qualities and driving diesels in built up areas. Mighty sensible imo. But it’s the constant scaremongering of buying diesel vs petrol like you are some kind of devil if you do that is wrong. Especially as there are far more polluting industries that could help tackle the problem of CO2, Methane, NOx and HC which is the real issue. I quite agree, the targeting of diesel per se is poorly aimed and probably counter productive. I drive a diesel, it was all that was available on the Motability scheme suitable for our needs and unless there is an exemption we will have difficulty in attendimg hospital appointments.
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Post by matealotblue on Nov 19, 2019 14:30:45 GMT
But it’s the constant scaremongering of buying diesel vs petrol like you are some kind of devil if you do that is wrong. I quite agree, the targeting of diesel per se is poorly aimed and probably counter productive. Exactly. This so called plan by BCC is, as I keep saying as nauseum, all “stick” and no “carrot”. Any plan like this has to encourage behavioural changes such that people are encouraged to use alternative means of transport. By definition that “alternative means of transport” has to be part of the plan/ban. It clearly isn’t in this dogs dinner that is being cooked up and will not take a single car off the road but will push the issue elsewhere. Solve one problem...create another further down the line. I guess the thing is none of those proposing this plan will be around at that point and will be long gone off the scene by then.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Nov 20, 2019 12:05:06 GMT
This has been known since I was at school but politicians who only look at the next election chose to ignore it (on a whole, individual ones understood). We now have evidence, although many refuse to believe it for varied reasons, and procrastination isn't an option, doing nothing will make it worse. Do something now and we can mitigate the extremes somewhat. Plus it is possible to create jobs and better the economy. As for the ozone, we did do something and it has helped slow dowm the depletion. All good valid points but should we believe our govt when they say go electric, go hybrid etc, but 12 years ago they said go Diesel its good for the environment.... now they tell me i have to ditch my 12 year old diesel....... should i believe them again and commit to paying £30k for electric car ? You raise some salient points there Ian. I also remember the egg debacle and that has changed too. It’s very difficult to not become apathetic when you never known the truth and have to research it yourself. IF this does get the green light then I think the government and council should provide an incentive to go back to petrol, like they did with the scrap page scheme. It plainly wrong to have led us to buy diesel and just accept this without a whimper. As many have pointed out, diesel is not what it was. The only time I really see the smoke clouds are from buses and lorries. How di they propose to deal with them ?
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Nov 20, 2019 12:19:06 GMT
I’m not against clear air qualities and driving diesels in built up areas. Mighty sensible imo. But it’s the constant scaremongering of buying diesel vs petrol like you are some kind of devil if you do that is wrong. Especially as there are far more polluting industries that could help tackle the problem of CO2, Methane, NOx and HC which is the real issue. I quite agree, the targeting of diesel per se is poorly aimed and probably counter productive. I drive a diesel, it was all that was available on the Motability scheme suitable for our needs and unless there is an exemption we will have difficulty in attendimg hospital appointments. Likewise and it is a big worry. I would hope there would be exemptions for blue badge holders as a start.
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Post by baggins on Nov 20, 2019 12:43:16 GMT
I quite agree, the targeting of diesel per se is poorly aimed and probably counter productive. I drive a diesel, it was all that was available on the Motability scheme suitable for our needs and unless there is an exemption we will have difficulty in attendimg hospital appointments. Likewise and it is a big worry. I would hope there would be exemptions for blue badge holders as a start. Like parking where you want?
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Nov 20, 2019 12:50:29 GMT
1. I get what you are saying, but they are picking on the incorrect industry to start the process with. They need to look at the defence, aerospace and shipping industries first, if you are looking at it purely from a footprint perspective. The technology can then be reversed engineered into cars which affects the consumer for cost a lot less than if a multi-billion dollar company such as Boeing who probably contribute more to damaging environment to the world than any car maker pick up the tab and not us. Especially when you look at the cost vs shelf life. 2. Don't get me wrong, the idea of EV is brilliant, but it relies on many things that internal combustion engine was designed and built to negate or avoid and when you crunch the numbers of it, trying to replace the internal combustion engine with full EV then it is literally robbing Peter to pay Paul both financially and environmentally speaking. You can't have a soap box to condemn the ICE to death and yet want to slave trade a load South Americans to mine the lithium and also pollute the planet with nuclear waste the next as well, should we need to go down that route. The increase/demand has only gone up through a lack of knowledge or understanding and scare tactics by various governments. 3. You cannot expect the average 2.4 family to finance £50k, even on a PCP agreement for 3 years, that would land at a cost of about £500 per month plus a deposit especially when these people may not even own their own homes. 4. Car companies cannot afford the investments on their own. Thats the issue. BMW and Daimler have joined together, VAG with Ford, GM and Honda have also done the same. And yet its still not producing technology good enough at a reasonable cost. No one will undercut them, Dyson has realised he can't. Tesla are losing money hand over fist. Google is trying to sell off its EV and autonomous division. Its not about building the product, anyone can do that, but what Dyson realised was that mass production, dealership franchises and aftersales support will be key, and no start up will be able to roll all of that out and take out a big player like VAG and the real reason why they would do it, which is ROI just isnt there. 5. I agree with you on point 5. A recent report by the United Nations about climate change stated that most CO2 is produced in growing, maintaining and transportation Cows and their infrastructure ( Crops to Transport of product) The simple solution is simple - Kill all the cows and replace them with Buffalo which only produce a very small amount of Methane. Also did you know that the Fashion Industry produce twice as much CO2 as all the flying operations in the world... So lets get our priorities in order and leave the poor motorist alone until you sort these two problems out Kill all the cows and replace them with buffalo - made I laugh that did - I need to check out the amount of wind a wildebeest puffs out - Like to see a hoard of them migrating across salisbury plain. Best bring in a few lions and crocodiles to keep the numbers down tho.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Nov 21, 2019 11:36:24 GMT
Likewise and it is a big worry. I would hope there would be exemptions for blue badge holders as a start. Like parking where you want? When you have as many hospital appointments as me then I can discuss this with you. BTW I hope you never do, I wouldn’t wish it on an enemy
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Post by philbemmygas on Nov 21, 2019 12:28:43 GMT
Kill all the cows and replace them with buffalo - made I laugh that did - I need to check out the amount of wind a wildebeest puffs out - Like to see a hoard of them migrating across salisbury plain. Best bring in a few lions and crocodiles to keep the numbers down tho. Don't worry a Squadron of Challenger 2 tanks and a Company of Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles would negate the need for Lions and Crocodiles; blood on the tracks is a cry of old
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Post by Henbury Gas on Nov 22, 2019 1:21:44 GMT
Kill all the cows and replace them with buffalo - made I laugh that did - I need to check out the amount of wind a wildebeest puffs out - Like to see a hoard of them migrating across salisbury plain. Best bring in a few lions and crocodiles to keep the numbers down tho. Don't worry a Squadron of Challenger 2 tanks and a Company of Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles would negate the need for Lions and Crocodiles; blood on the tracks is a cry of old You may jest at my post but the fact remains Buffalo are way better for the environment than Cows. If you get the chance to eat Buffalo meat, it tastes way better than your standard cow mush
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 6:01:14 GMT
Kill all the cows and replace them with buffalo - made I laugh that did - I need to check out the amount of wind a wildebeest puffs out - Like to see a hoard of them migrating across salisbury plain. Best bring in a few lions and crocodiles to keep the numbers down tho. Don't worry a Squadron of Challenger 2 tanks and a Company of Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles would negate the need for Lions and Crocodiles; blood on the tracks is a cry of old You may jest at my post but the fact remains Buffalo are way better for the environment than Cows. If you get the chance to eat Buffalo meat, it tastes way better than your standard cow mushI concur. However, there is a problem with the conversion to Buffalo in that we'd then have swarms of Indians around the gaff, and people may not be aware of this, but Henbury Gas in Apache translates to 'dog fecking dog' which is rather an unfortunate name.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 6:02:08 GMT
Kill all the cows and replace them with buffalo - made I laugh that did - I need to check out the amount of wind a wildebeest puffs out - Like to see a hoard of them migrating across salisbury plain. Best bring in a few lions and crocodiles to keep the numbers down tho. Don't worry a Squadron of Challenger 2 tanks and a Company of Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles would negate the need for Lions and Crocodiles; blood on the tracks is a cry of old Christ. Someone wants the Indians to turn up and now Phil has invited the Calvary !
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Post by Henbury Gas on Nov 22, 2019 6:22:52 GMT
You may jest at my post but the fact remains Buffalo are way better for the environment than Cows. If you get the chance to eat Buffalo meat, it tastes way better than your standard cow mushI concur. However, there is a problem with the conversion to Buffalo in that we'd then have swarms of Indians around the gaff, and people may not be aware of this, but Henbury Gas in Apache translates to 'dog fecking dog' which is rather an unfortunate name. You are right in your assertions but are you aware that "Nobby" in Swahili means "Little dildo for man girls" thankfully not many people speak Swahili in the darkest recesses of Germany or your life could have a different aspect to the one you have now of extracting vast amounts of money from German companies for very little input from you
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 7:13:34 GMT
I concur. However, there is a problem with the conversion to Buffalo in that we'd then have swarms of Indians around the gaff, and people may not be aware of this, but Henbury Gas in Apache translates to 'dog fecking dog' which is rather an unfortunate name. You are right in your assertions but are you aware that "Nobby" in Swahili means "Little dildo for man girls" thankfully not many people speak Swahili in the darkest recesses of Germany or your life could have a different aspect to the one you have now of extracting vast amounts of money from German companies for very little input from you Cant argue with that !
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 22, 2019 7:18:47 GMT
Kill all the cows and replace them with buffalo - made I laugh that did - I need to check out the amount of wind a wildebeest puffs out - Like to see a hoard of them migrating across salisbury plain. Best bring in a few lions and crocodiles to keep the numbers down tho. Don't worry a Squadron of Challenger 2 tanks and a Company of Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles would negate the need for Lions and Crocodiles; blood on the tracks is a cry of old Christ. Someone wants the Indians to turn up and now Phil has invited the Calvary ! Calvary? I can tell where you are from!!! Also I wouldn't dare call the RTR cavalry if Lulworthgas is reading this 😎
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