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Post by Rod1883 on Feb 23, 2020 13:35:25 GMT
We all know that BG needs to recruit players with the right qualities to play his way. It is painful seeing many of our current squad as they struggle in his formation and tactics. Clearly different players are required in many parts of the team.
It seems we are in for a disappointing end to the season with poor results along the way - but BG is using it as a test period for his methods. We are, probably, already safe from relegation so he does effectively have a free hit to see if our players can adapt. Then he has the Summer to recruit for his model. Short term pain (and embarrassment probably) for longer term gain.
It would be nice to think it is all part of a longer term strategy. Perhaps the board saw GC's departure as a chance to implement a new style that would work better if we were to go up, and thought we still had a chance of getting there this season - but with a way of playing more suited to the higher division.
Clearly it hasn't yet worked and I fear that with our facilities and budget BG will be unable to attract/afford players of the type and calibre required to play his way successfully. We could end up with younger cheaper players that are potentially future stars, but won't be strong enough. We will be, effectively, a Championship/lower Premier League U23 side - pretty to watch but losing most weeks. I'm not sure he will be able, or wants, to recruit a blend of youth and experience that most clubs at this level need. He will also have the problem of a losing habit that could carry over to a new season.
Assuming he doesn't walk away, or get sacked, at the end of this season then his Summer recruitment is critical, as is the start we make next season. If we start off as we are doing now, then come October/November we will be looking for another GC type boss to get us out of the mire.
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Post by matealotblue on Feb 23, 2020 14:07:51 GMT
Assuming he doesn't walk away, or get sacked, at the end of this season then his Summer recruitment is critical, as is the start we make next season. If we start off as we are doing now, then come October/November we will be looking for another GC type boss to get us out of the mire. It is an interesting and important conundrum that one tbh. He’s got maybe a dozen or so games to answer it .....and then the decision will have to be made. Losing like this next season from the level playing field of nil points for all clubs in August is a truly horrific thought......😱🤯🤬
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 23, 2020 14:10:49 GMT
All I hear is excuses for BG form. It needs more time, the players aren’t right, he hasn’t been able to put his team together, we’re building for the future.
Seems to me a good manager utilises the team they have available to them and adapts, and phases in changes over time to move towards their style of play. Which like it or not GC was doing with us and why the football was allegedly so bad - because we were playing to our strengths to avoid getting relegated.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 23, 2020 14:12:59 GMT
Also - if we change hands will the new ownership be as patient with BG as Wael is?
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 23, 2020 14:19:27 GMT
Assuming he doesn't walk away, or get sacked, at the end of this season then his Summer recruitment is critical, as is the start we make next season. If we start off as we are doing now, then come October/November we will be looking for another GC type boss to get us out of the mire. It is an interesting and important conundrum that one tbh. He’s got maybe a dozen or so games to answer it .....and then the decision will have to be made. Losing like this next season from the level playing field of nil points for all clubs in August is a truly horrific thought......😱🤯🤬 Yes, that’s about it. Could be a similar position as Rod has said. I just hope that BG can recruit well to get the players to play his system more effectively than DC did in summer 18 which was a very poor window for us. The players DC recruited couldn’t play the way he wanted and GC moulded them into a team that started to get results then added two very important players in January. BG will need to recruit well, if he does we should be ok, if he doesn’t we know what will happen. But he still needs to conjure up some results this season or he may not get the chance. Fingers crossed. UTG!
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Post by bluebiro on Feb 23, 2020 14:22:43 GMT
But why give him the rest of the season?the guy is.not a manager and never will be. The whole appointment and of him scurrying around the club while we had a manager does not sit easy. My worry is the he has been put in place to coach certain clubs development players in the league that they pay the wage for and the result does not matter. If he stays I do not see many proven league players in the starting line up next season. The feeder club begins.
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Post by baggins on Feb 23, 2020 14:30:08 GMT
But why give him the rest of the season?the guy is.not a manager and never will be. The whole appointment and of him scurrying around the club while we had a manager does not sit easy. My worry is the he has been put in place to coach certain clubs development players in the league that they pay the wage for and the result does not matter. If he stays I do not see many proven league players in the starting line up next season. The feeder club begins. What?
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Post by matealotblue on Feb 23, 2020 14:33:30 GMT
But why give him the rest of the season?the guy is.not a manager and never will be. The whole appointment and of him scurrying around the club while we had a manager does not sit easy. My worry is the he has been put in place to coach certain clubs development players in the league that they pay the wage for and the result does not matter. If he stays I do not see many proven league players in the starting line up next season. The feeder club begins. Well the Feeder is not very far from the Fruit Market......do you know something? Just asking.....
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Post by Hudson1883 on Feb 23, 2020 14:40:07 GMT
Yes, when he has a chance to move on those who aren’t up to it, in the summer.
Every manager deserves a pre season in order to operate.
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Post by baggins on Feb 23, 2020 14:41:24 GMT
Yes, when he has a chance to move on those who aren’t up to it, in the summer. Every manager deserves a pre season in order to operate. I need a pre game beer to cope with everything.
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Feb 23, 2020 14:42:31 GMT
The fact we are already questioning the manager is direct result of a society and culture of football supporters that expects results (despite a complete change in style from ugly coughlan ball) straight away.
This was never going to be a quick fix and we are all aware of the resource challenges, but Garner clearly has a possession based strategy he wishes to implement, but that takes time. Our job as ‘supporters’ is to support that project and the team.
I see a lot of comparisons with when Jurgen Klopp took over Liverpool, he Didn’t have the best start with Liverpool because as he eased his style of play into a Brendan Rodgers squad, but slowly transfer window by transfer window he made a few changes here in there to alter the squad to how he wanted to play (strengthening in required posistions) and soon enough one day it all clicked and became a dominating force.
I think it will all come good. Besides, we all know the facilities are rubbish, migh as well implement a system and Philosophy for the long term. What use we get from constantly chopping and changing managers because they all will suffer with the same budget and facilities restrictions?
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Post by althepirate on Feb 23, 2020 15:04:15 GMT
We can't be compared to Liverpool can we? They have the ability to make huge investments and buy skill we have to coach it. We have to think about our club not be a nursery or a college for players and a manager. Do you think they will stay with us when they have learnt? No they will be off to the highest bidder. If city go up and we are still in a long term plan what will our attendances be? Imo we have to get results quickly now and very soon because I don't see the long term plan being a benefit to us.
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Post by stevek192 on Feb 23, 2020 15:14:48 GMT
The only Manager I can remember being successful with Young players was Alex ferguson with a very special set of youngsters. Unfortunately I just see us getting rid of any player who's contract is up and replacing with the cheap option to so say coach and make into good players and also lots of loans. Already IMO we have too many loans and we are playing a certain way but what are the chances of the loans becoming permanent? Certainly with the two wingers we could well have to start again in the summer. I don't ever see JCH on his own up front with no other real goalscorers ever working. Three centre halves without a decent full back is always going to see us torn apart like yesterday far too often. I hope BG is given the summer but I hope he realises that what he is trying at the moment is not really working.
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Post by axegas on Feb 23, 2020 15:25:57 GMT
We've just got to accept that the results from now till the end of the season don't really matter, we won't go up and we won't go down. Why sack a manager then over results that mean nothing, especially a man that has a vision for the club and hasn't been here long?
He deserves a pre season and another transfer window to get his players in, perfect tactics and get up to speed. After that there will be no excuses, he can then be judged on results and performances knowing that he's had all the tools and time to deliver what he promised when he first came to the club.
BG came to the club with a long term strategy. Now, whether we should have made that kind of appointment in the middle of the season when we were doing so well is another matter but it would be a big mistake to not let Garner get on with the job and implement it now. Patience should bear it's fruits eventually.
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Feb 23, 2020 15:31:10 GMT
We can't be compared to Liverpool can we? They have the ability to make huge investments and buy skill we have to coach it. We have to think about our club not be a nursery or a college for players and a manager. Do you think they will stay with us when they have learnt? No they will be off to the highest bidder. If city go up and we are still in a long term plan what will our attendances be? Imo we have to get results quickly now and very soon because I don't see the long term plan being a benefit to us. I agree we can’t ever be compared to Liverpool, but on the point of sticking with the manager and the philosophy we can be, klopp made a pretty rubbish start to Liverpool and could of been sacked liked a few supporters wanted him too, but they stuck with the philosophy, helped him bring in players that fitted his style and they progressed with it. Of course the better it gets for us players will be sought after, but when new players come in to replace those sold, it’ll be easier for those new players to adapt to the already implemented style of play. Swansea Bournemouth and Brighton all took a similar approach and has worked wonders for them in the past. There is no quick fix to our problems and we have to accept City most likely continue to grow in the short term and we won’t. If we keep sacking managers the first sign of trouble I beleive we’ll be in a continuous circle of mediocrity. The saga of buckle, Penney, Campbell, McGhee and ward a prime example. Best we can hope for is sticking with Garner through all the bad times likely to come, hope progress is made with the stadium off the pitch and we develop a philosophy for the future.
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Post by yetigas on Feb 23, 2020 15:41:00 GMT
Will BG ever be able to get us playing his way successfully? Yes I believe he will from the start of next season. The rest of this season will be a transition period. We will win some, lose some, finish mid-table. To be honest, I feel that we lost a lot of confidence when GC moved on. Plus we lost the best goalkeeper in the league who was responsible largely for our rise to 4th position. Let BG learn from his managerial mistakes this season and get us off on the right foot in August
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Post by brads213 on Feb 23, 2020 15:46:36 GMT
We all know that BG needs to recruit players with the right qualities to play his way. It is painful seeing many of our current squad as they struggle in his formation and tactics. Clearly different players are required in many parts of the team. It seems we are in for a disappointing end to the season with poor results along the way - but BG is using it as a test period for his methods. We are, probably, already safe from relegation so he does effectively have a free hit to see if our players can adapt. Then he has the Summer to recruit for his model. Short term pain (and embarrassment probably) for longer term gain. It would be nice to think it is all part of a longer term strategy. Perhaps the board saw GC's departure as a chance to implement a new style that would work better if we were to go up, and thought we still had a chance of getting there this season - but with a way of playing more suited to the higher division. Clearly it hasn't yet worked and I fear that with our facilities and budget BG will be unable to attract/afford players of the type and calibre required to play his way successfully. We could end up with younger cheaper players that are potentially future stars, but won't be strong enough. We will be, effectively, a Championship/lower Premier League U23 side - pretty to watch but losing most weeks. I'm not sure he will be able, or wants, to recruit a blend of youth and experience that most clubs at this level need. He will also have the problem of a losing habit that could carry over to a new season. Assuming he doesn't walk away, or get sacked, at the end of this season then his Summer recruitment is critical, as is the start we make next season. If we start off as we are doing now, then come October/November we will be looking for another GC type boss to get us out of the mire. All very well but the facts speak for themselves, he has ruined a perfectly good squad that was playing well and to their abilities and getting results he has probably had the worst set of results for any manager for a long time 1 win in 15 it’s embarrassing he has completely wrecked any chance of a play off spot (I was not expecting automatic promotion even under GC) he has got the club and the fans divided And all because he wants to play a pretty way that Liverpool and Man City do. He will have the players falling over and diving and wanting their mummy soon just like the cheats do in the prem. no it’s not for me bring in good hard working fight for every ball players who play for the shirt that’s what we have always have and that is our way
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Feb 23, 2020 15:59:31 GMT
We can argue all we like about whether he was the correct appointment but the fact remains that decision was the one made. This is a long term change of strategy it's not as if it's been done in secret we all know that's the direction the club is now going. I'm sure BG would love to go & spend big money on ready made players to fit his style but our circumstances don't allow that, he'll be looking for players he can coach which inevitably will mean a younger squad. Of course from where we were at Christmas to now is a huge disappointment but there's absolutely no point in ripping up the new philosophy at this point in time. He has the rest of this season to determine those in the current squad who can play his way plus another transfer window ship out those who can't. IMO how we start next season will determine his fate not how we finish this one.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Feb 23, 2020 16:22:34 GMT
I’m sorry but if we only win 2 games between now and the end of the season he should not be afforded any more time. Just because we can afford to fail right now doesn’t mean he should be given any more time than a manager would if we were in the mire.
If he manages to deliver here on in then fair enough he should get his chance for the summer.
He needs to earn the chance at the next window, not be given it for free. Otherwise we run the risk of another relegation battle next season.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Feb 23, 2020 16:49:40 GMT
But we've not had a relegation battle season this time round - thanks to GC.
I'm still willing to support BG and fully accept that he wants to change our style of play. Let's wait until the season ends and review the situation. Sacking him now will achieve absolutely nothing.
Nonetheless, I think even the most ardent supporters of BG would have been horror struck if somebody had predicted a miserable one win in his first 15 games.
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