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Post by peterparker on Jun 20, 2020 8:31:20 GMT
What happens next IS important. We cant just rack another near 20m debt with. Nothing much to show for it
However Wael obviously knows this, he clearly has ideas. I dont think he would have capitalised the loan unless something was in the works
For me the important thing is to thank Wael (and the family) for their commitment and monetary sacrifice to the club.
We can all speculate, but we have very little detail to work with. When or If we hear any news, yes it will be appropriate to ask question. But right now lets just be thankful
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Post by sodburygas on Jun 20, 2020 8:31:47 GMT
Amid all the euphoria over yesterday's statements by Wael and the club, it's time to take stock over where we are as a football club. Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday. How do you honestly believe we are in the same place as a club as we were before yesterday?. You don't even seem to think this is a positive. Surely you want what is best for the club over being able to say the supporters club and me Swissgas and Knowall were correct about Wael.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 20, 2020 8:33:52 GMT
Great post StokeLodgeGas, thanks for taking the time to unearth some evidence for this SC member's axe-to-grind.
The SC really are something else, honestly. Why the hell are you so unwilling to let go of your petty and pathetic vendetta? Was the control you once had so valuable to you? Do you have nothing else in your life to cling onto? It's actually quite sad.
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Post by pucklegas on Jun 20, 2020 8:34:38 GMT
2 things- 1) I bet you were seething yesterday 2) As a man with ITK calibre that you have, I cant believe you didnt know this was happening! Stop please I've spurted my earl grey all over the chaise longue 😂😂😂😂
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 20, 2020 8:36:25 GMT
Now try reading it and say why If the capitaising of the debt and writing off interest is a "paper exercise" then the charge is even more so (in reality it always was). Previously Weal has been critised for "not spending his own money", then he does he is being questioned on how wise that is. Where is the money coming from? Wouldn't that be true of any owner? Same with any development at the Fruit Market taking 5-10 years to relocate, a new owner would have the same timeframe issues. Leasing a new stadium? Again, this is assuming things we don't know, fwiw I've long thought the plan was to clear debt by selling the Mem and either rent or co-own a new stadium, either through a parent company, subsidiary of that parent company or through a mutual small holding interest in each other. If you are aware of a different proposition then please elaborate. At least we would have an idea of what the alternative would be, informed choice is good, no? Finally, I appreciate your posts have garnered vitriol over the years and the story of 'the boy who called wolf' often sprang to mind, some of which may well have been unfair, your credibility would have been enhanced had you posted a simple "thank you". Edit: my original thought in 2016 was for the Mem to be sold and its proceeds used in part, for the training ground. Maybe that is still an option.
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Post by pucklegas on Jun 20, 2020 8:42:39 GMT
Only on here someone could make a negative out of a positive, one minute we cant pay for a fence at the colony and we cant pay the players wages then this unbelievable jeff!
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 20, 2020 8:51:53 GMT
More doom and gloom from a Itk get a life very sad Isn't the real issue ITK haven't an f'ing clue what's going on and it's frustrating the b@lls off them? Don't forget the OP was giving Wael personal abuse at the club's AGM about the debts he's now cleared. As far as the 5 to 10 years time frame, with the way planning works you sense if plans were submitted next week we wouldn't be sat in any new stadium for around 5 years minimum if everything went to plan. Brentford's stadium seemingly taking forever to just build.
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Post by pucklegas on Jun 20, 2020 8:55:32 GMT
More doom and gloom from a Itk get a life very sad Isn't the real issue ITK haven't an f'ing clue what's going on and it's frustrating the b@lls off them? Don't forget the OP was giving Wael personal abuse at the club's AGM about the debts he's now cleared. Some fans think they re bigger than the club nauseating isn't it?
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Post by jungleboogie on Jun 20, 2020 9:03:00 GMT
Not been a good 24hrs for Brian, first Katie Hopkins is banned from Twitter, and now he’s made to look like a massive fraud (as if we didn’t already know) on here. 😂
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Post by stapletongas on Jun 20, 2020 9:11:14 GMT
Amid all the euphoria over yesterday's statements by Wael and the club, it's time to take stock over where we are as a football club. Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday. If there is one item of forward movement, it is that the training ground is under way at last. My only question regarding the Colony, was ' how will this all be paid for?' Some on here will understand that the capitalisation of the debt (approx £18m) is largely a paper exercise. So ask yourself, why is this being done now. There is nowt wrong in it, but it's the rationale behind it that we need to come to terms with. Outwardly, clearing the debt makes us far more attractive to investors. Again nothing wrong with that. Some on here think Wael has just splashed out £18m. He hasn't. Wael has always said he was he was committed to the club, which is why when his family recently considered selling to the people who wish to build the stadium at the fruit market, he stood firmly and said he wanted to retain the club. I don't know if Wael has inherited vast wealth on the sad loss of his father, but it's easy to misconstrue the two. So my take on all this is follows:- Going back to paragraph 2, again I ask, how are we paying for the Colony redevelopment? I believe the total initial outlay is approx £2m. Now that 'the debt' has been cleared, remember that old chstnut THE CHARGE ON THE MEM? Now that there is no debt, presumably the charge has been satisfied, and can now be removed. So what are the consequences of that? Well, it makes it far easier for raising capital against the value of the Mem for a start. You see, it's one thing to want to run a football club, but it's another to be mad enough to want to spend millions doing it. If Wael doesn't have the money that many on here seem to think he has, this is one way of getting enough funding to keep us going for a while. Longer term? Well that depends how long the money lasts. I remember our previous owner putting us in the proverbial when he borrowed money from MSP to fund the club. But come the day of reckoning, he couldn't pay it back and had to sell the club. I hope this isn't about to happen again. As i sày, I hope that Wael will be very careful with whatever happens next, because I doubt we will find a white knight to rescue us. As for the new stadium? The only question is (once again) who will pay for it? Well the developer who wants to build the stadium at the Fruit Market has never wanted to own the club, because he is a property man. Is he prepared to build the stadium? As far as I know the answer is yes. But the Mem is a precondition of that. He wants to redevelop it for housing. So to get us out he would build the new stadium, and lease it to us. But, a friend who works at the Fruit Market, told me recently that according to an email sent to the management there, it's BRISTOL ROVERS who have bought the site, but it will take 5 to 10 years to resettle the businesses there and build the stadium. It could easily be the same guy who has bought it, and assuming he has done a deal with Wael, will build it and then redevelop the Mem. Will he wait up to 10 years to get his money back? I suppose he could move us elsewhere in the meantime to speed up his returns. I hope not. So in summation, training ground, brilliant but where is the money coming from? Clearing the charge on the Mem allows for capital raising to enable the club to continue, though like everyone else I hope this is not the case. New stadium, yes it's finally happening, but what sort of deal will the club get to use it ? The annual rental at any reasonable level (please no more than about £1m per year) is most likely sustainable as long as we get to keep all the income the stadium generates. A big if. As they say, follow the money, and importantly, follow what happens at Companies house with regard to removal of one charge, and a possible insertion of another. It all brings two old old sayings to mind, 'if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is', and 'it's the hope that kills you'. As with everyone else on here, I hope Wael has got this nailed, and that we have a future to look forward to. I just hope he doesn't have to go borrowing money from dodgy investors that may put our whole future at risk. media0.giphy.com/media/QkR0NS30aawH6/giphy.gif
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Post by bumble on Jun 20, 2020 9:15:57 GMT
Amid all the euphoria over yesterday's statements by Wael and the club, it's time to take stock over where we are as a football club. Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday. If there is one item of forward movement, it is that the training ground is under way at last. My only question regarding the Colony, was ' how will this all be paid for?' Some on here will understand that the capitalisation of the debt (approx £18m) is largely a paper exercise. So ask yourself, why is this being done now. There is nowt wrong in it, but it's the rationale behind it that we need to come to terms with. Outwardly, clearing the debt makes us far more attractive to investors. Again nothing wrong with that. Some on here think Wael has just splashed out £18m. He hasn't. Wael has always said he was he was committed to the club, which is why when his family recently considered selling to the people who wish to build the stadium at the fruit market, he stood firmly and said he wanted to retain the club. I don't know if Wael has inherited vast wealth on the sad loss of his father, but it's easy to misconstrue the two. So my take on all this is follows:- Going back to paragraph 2, again I ask, how are we paying for the Colony redevelopment? I believe the total initial outlay is approx £2m. Now that 'the debt' has been cleared, remember that old chstnut THE CHARGE ON THE MEM? Now that there is no debt, presumably the charge has been satisfied, and can now be removed. So what are the consequences of that? Well, it makes it far easier for raising capital against the value of the Mem for a start. You see, it's one thing to want to run a football club, but it's another to be mad enough to want to spend millions doing it. If Wael doesn't have the money that many on here seem to think he has, this is one way of getting enough funding to keep us going for a while. Longer term? Well that depends how long the money lasts. I remember our previous owner putting us in the proverbial when he borrowed money from MSP to fund the club. But come the day of reckoning, he couldn't pay it back and had to sell the club. I hope this isn't about to happen again. As i sày, I hope that Wael will be very careful with whatever happens next, because I doubt we will find a white knight to rescue us. As for the new stadium? The only question is (once again) who will pay for it? Well the developer who wants to build the stadium at the Fruit Market has never wanted to own the club, because he is a property man. Is he prepared to build the stadium? As far as I know the answer is yes. But the Mem is a precondition of that. He wants to redevelop it for housing. So to get us out he would build the new stadium, and lease it to us. But, a friend who works at the Fruit Market, told me recently that according to an email sent to the management there, it's BRISTOL ROVERS who have bought the site, but it will take 5 to 10 years to resettle the businesses there and build the stadium. It could easily be the same guy who has bought it, and assuming he has done a deal with Wael, will build it and then redevelop the Mem. Will he wait up to 10 years to get his money back? I suppose he could move us elsewhere in the meantime to speed up his returns. I hope not. So in summation, training ground, brilliant but where is the money coming from? Clearing the charge on the Mem allows for capital raising to enable the club to continue, though like everyone else I hope this is not the case. New stadium, yes it's finally happening, but what sort of deal will the club get to use it ? The annual rental at any reasonable level (please no more than about £1m per year) is most likely sustainable as long as we get to keep all the income the stadium generates. A big if. As they say, follow the money, and importantly, follow what happens at Companies house with regard to removal of one charge, and a possible insertion of another. It all brings two old old sayings to mind, 'if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is', and 'it's the hope that kills you'. As with everyone else on here, I hope Wael has got this nailed, and that we have a future to look forward to. I just hope he doesn't have to go borrowing money from dodgy investors that may put our whole future at risk. No need to write a big essay - your credibility is shot on here. Your ego seems to be getting the better of you and at a time when you should be celebrating a hugely positive event for the club, you appear to be trying to save face by continuing with some sort of personal vendetta. Maybe its time for you to reflect on your motivations and maybe find something more productive to do with your time.
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Post by azulyblanco on Jun 20, 2020 9:28:37 GMT
To paraphrase StokeLodgeGas: You say it best, when you say nothing at all!
Why not just stop posting drivel?
Just asking for a friend.
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Post by mrwarboys on Jun 20, 2020 9:34:26 GMT
Always wise to air on the side of caution being a Gashead, but most of us will look for the positives and a healthy exciting future, none of us know how much Waels father left him, could of been a tenner or 100 million. He also holds an 8% stake in the Jordan bank which has assets in excess of 2 billion I believe looking at the company information, so I would imagine investors would be lining up to get into bed with him on any stadium build, especially the Arabs he possibly knows through football and business. Naming rights could bring in 30-40 million which would cover a lot of the build costs for me it's glass half full, not half empty #UTG
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 20, 2020 9:38:46 GMT
Now try reading it and say why If the capitaising of the debt and writing off interest is a "paper exercise" then the charge is even more so (in reality it always was). Previously Weal has been critised for "not spending his own money", then he does he is being questioned on how wise that is. Where is the money coming from? Wouldn't that be true of any owner? Same with any development at the Fruit Market taking 5-10 years to relocate, a new owner would have the same timeframe issues. Leasing a new stadium? Again, this is assuming things we don't know, fwiw I've long thought the plan was to clear debt by selling the Mem and either rent or co-own a new stadium, either through a parent company, subsidiary of that parent company or through a mutual small holding interest in each other. If you are aware of a different proposition then please elaborate. At least we would have an idea of what the alternative would be, informed choice is good, no? Finally, I appreciate your posts have garnered vitriol over the years and the story of 'the boy who called wolf' often sprang to mind, some of which may well have been unfair, your credibility would have been enhanced had you posted a simple "thank you". Edit: my original thought in 2016 was for the Mem to be sold and its proceeds used in part, for the training ground. Maybe that is still an option. It seems to me that Wael now has a clear plan for the future of our Club and the work on the training ground us yesterdays announcement are precursors for the next stage which I like many of us hope will be a new stadium. Looking at yesterday our Presidents MO is clearly not to announce anything until it is done and this is why I believe the BOD was changed as there was too much leakage and misinformation being put in the Public domain. Wael in my view has earned the right to be trusted with the future of our club and I for one am looking forward to the future with renewed hope and enthusiasm UTG!!
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Post by darkbluegas on Jun 20, 2020 9:41:02 GMT
Whilst Gasincider is taking the grief here, there are a few more that need to up their game. The epost and Ali Durden/BBC may need to revise their informant list. Both organisations went with the Unicorn takeover consortium earlier in the year combined with the Fruit Bat Stadium development. To most this appeared to be a rouse to destabilise and grab the Mem on the cheap.
Any additional finance requirements or stadium development can be done on Wael’s terms so hopefully he will now be the sole source of information
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 20, 2020 9:43:02 GMT
Amid all the euphoria over yesterday's statements by Wael and the club, it's time to take stock over where we are as a football club. Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday. If there is one item of forward movement, it is that the training ground is under way at last. My only question regarding the Colony, was ' how will this all be paid for?' Some on here will understand that the capitalisation of the debt (approx £18m) is largely a paper exercise. So ask yourself, why is this being done now. There is nowt wrong in it, but it's the rationale behind it that we need to come to terms with. Outwardly, clearing the debt makes us far more attractive to investors. Again nothing wrong with that. Some on here think Wael has just splashed out £18m. He hasn't. Wael has always said he was he was committed to the club, which is why when his family recently considered selling to the people who wish to build the stadium at the fruit market, he stood firmly and said he wanted to retain the club. I don't know if Wael has inherited vast wealth on the sad loss of his father, but it's easy to misconstrue the two. So my take on all this is follows:- Going back to paragraph 2, again I ask, how are we paying for the Colony redevelopment? I believe the total initial outlay is approx £2m. Now that 'the debt' has been cleared, remember that old chstnut THE CHARGE ON THE MEM? Now that there is no debt, presumably the charge has been satisfied, and can now be removed. So what are the consequences of that? Well, it makes it far easier for raising capital against the value of the Mem for a start. You see, it's one thing to want to run a football club, but it's another to be mad enough to want to spend millions doing it. If Wael doesn't have the money that many on here seem to think he has, this is one way of getting enough funding to keep us going for a while. Longer term? Well that depends how long the money lasts. I remember our previous owner putting us in the proverbial when he borrowed money from MSP to fund the club. But come the day of reckoning, he couldn't pay it back and had to sell the club. I hope this isn't about to happen again. As i sày, I hope that Wael will be very careful with whatever happens next, because I doubt we will find a white knight to rescue us. As for the new stadium? The only question is (once again) who will pay for it? Well the developer who wants to build the stadium at the Fruit Market has never wanted to own the club, because he is a property man. Is he prepared to build the stadium? As far as I know the answer is yes. But the Mem is a precondition of that. He wants to redevelop it for housing. So to get us out he would build the new stadium, and lease it to us. But, a friend who works at the Fruit Market, told me recently that according to an email sent to the management there, it's BRISTOL ROVERS who have bought the site, but it will take 5 to 10 years to resettle the businesses there and build the stadium. It could easily be the same guy who has bought it, and assuming he has done a deal with Wael, will build it and then redevelop the Mem. Will he wait up to 10 years to get his money back? I suppose he could move us elsewhere in the meantime to speed up his returns. I hope not. So in summation, training ground, brilliant but where is the money coming from? Clearing the charge on the Mem allows for capital raising to enable the club to continue, though like everyone else I hope this is not the case. New stadium, yes it's finally happening, but what sort of deal will the club get to use it ? The annual rental at any reasonable level (please no more than about £1m per year) is most likely sustainable as long as we get to keep all the income the stadium generates. A big if. As they say, follow the money, and importantly, follow what happens at Companies house with regard to removal of one charge, and a possible insertion of another. It all brings two old old sayings to mind, 'if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is', and 'it's the hope that kills you'. As with everyone else on here, I hope Wael has got this nailed, and that we have a future to look forward to. I just hope he doesn't have to go borrowing money from dodgy investors that may put our whole future at risk. The day the ALQ family took over from the almost ruinous custody of Higgs I was ecstatic that we appeared saved. I was even more ecstatic when we were told that we no longer needed to win a court case against Sainsbury’s to build UWE. The new owners told us all what we wanted to hear. The fan base at that moment was almost as one. Personally I continued to have absolute faith in the ALQ ownership until 3rd August 2017 when they pulled out of UWE and WAQ didn’t have the courage to face up to the fans and sent Hamer out to give his Crazy Gang speech. That faith was further destroyed by the man who had been carried down the Gloucester Rd by his adoring fans not having the courage to talk to those fans for nigh on 2 years. At a time he needed to show leadership he went absent. That all said, his circumstances have now changed and he has the absolute power he didn’t have then. He may also have a lot more personal wealth than he did then. The actions he’s just taken to buy out Hani and write off money already put in would have come at a considerable personal cost. All the actions of somebody who clearly is committed to the FC and wants to progress it. So, it looks like we could now get the owners we thought we were getting in the first place, and it’s a reincarnated WAQ that will now deliver unhampered by other shareholders less enthused than him. I do hope so. He has a chance now to be what he said he wanted to be and despite what’s gone on before I am back on board supporting him. Maybe I have slightly more caution than when I last threw my lot in with him though, once bitten twice shy and all that, but this is like a complete takeover and I’m happy to see it as such, for now and give the new owners the benefit of any doubt.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2020 9:44:02 GMT
Whilst Gasincider is taking the grief here, there are a few more that need to up their game. The epost and Ali Durden/BBC may need to revise their informant list. Both organisations went with the Unicorn takeover consortium earlier in the year combined with the Fruit Bat Stadium development. To most this appeared to be a rouse to destabilise and grab the Mem on the cheap. Any additional finance requirements or stadium development can be done on Wael’s terms so hopefully he will now be the sole source of information It was pretty clear people were trying to destabilise the club and force Wael out too. Fair play to him, lesser men would have walked.
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Post by Gassy on Jun 20, 2020 9:46:27 GMT
GI, you're clearly a smart bloke and know a thing or two about business. I already read your posts with intrigue, although I certainly don't agree with most of them. However, when you say "Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday" - I'm genuinely baffled by this statement.
I think the overall point you're trying to make is a good one, and it's correct.
But as many have said, it's tainted by general negativity over Wael's actions, rather than seeing this a fresh start where we can learn from out mistakes.
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Post by poorblue on Jun 20, 2020 9:50:58 GMT
Pure speculation on my part There has been long time hair pulling out over a massive debt. Massive abuse. The debt is removed and it now seems it never was a debt by some! Waverers switching side from pessimist to optimist.
Anyone with construction knowledge would know that a fruit market would be a steel framed building on an industrial site with outline planning use already agreed. Construction would be achieved in much less than 10 months not the 10 years stated. Some industrial developers have buildings already built standing empty waiting for a tenant either for lease or purchase. Move in within the month. Stadiums as we all now know would take longer but if a site was about to be purchased most of the planning and outline design ground work would have been already "agreed" by Planning Dept in private meetings. If as suggested a site is about to be agreed 2 years for the construction would be well within realistic time frames for a first home game 3 seasons away. 2 seasons away might be possible is the stadium is phased with only say 2 sides built
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 9:51:02 GMT
Strange how so many people on here seem to have lost the ability to read. I've not changed my opinion on anything yet, because there is no reason to do so.
As Wael has said, And I acknowledged, he is going nowhere. Why on earth would I want him to fail? If he fails, it means Rovers fail, and I certainly don't want that. In light of our history, including the advent of the AQ's, we have constantly been let down. Remember 'the funding of the UWE is not an issue'. The training ground was bought to grow grass. The one constant in all this is that everyone connected with our club knew from the outset that the only family member that consistently expressed his wish to remain was Wael. His problem was that Hani didn't want to keep the club.
Wael now knows that he is up there to be shot at if he gets it wrong, but that's the bugbear for any club owner.
The clearing of the debt announced yesterday, though nice to have, did not need to be done. Our position remains the same. It has obviously raised the hopes of a lot of people on here, and I would love it if it all comes to pass as we all wish. There s no doubt that we finally have an owner who really wants to be here, and that is the best inducement of all to succeed. Under the recently changed ownership, (inter family)we were stagnating because Hani wasn't interested in us. Wael is.
The saddest part in all this is the fact that I supposedly hate Wael. Bullshit. I've never hated him. As a supporter I feel that I can express my opinion of the way our club is run. As I said earlier, it will be interesting to see what happens now. All I am saying is, don't start getting carried away with the events of yesterday. I'm surprised how quickly people forget how their hopes are quickly dashed as events in the life of our club move forward.
Again, I have no issue with Wael raising money from investors, though that brings outside debt into the equation. It just depends how reliable the investors are. It could be that the guy who wants to build the new stadium might be the possible investor. I don't know. I know he doesn't want the club. If Wael gets this right, and in view of the overall scheme that is planned for redeveloping St Phillips, it maybe the change in our fortunes we have all wished for. But I'm certainly not changing my opinion of how we have been run up to now. To accumulate the debt that quickly was a recipe for disaster.
If Wael has learnt from what's gone before, he may yet get his statue. All I want in reality is a championship club(minimum) at a quality stadium at the Fruit Market. If Wael is still here, no problem. Any football fan will tell you that it's success on the pitch that matters, not who owns it. And I as much as anyone wish him well. But I certainly don't retract anything that's gone before. All comments are made in light of current events, by all of us. Some of the most vociferous on here saying he is the messiah, have obviously forgotten some of their recent posts. But as I say, people give opinions on events at the time. It seems I'm not allowed to. Do I care? No. I just want our owners whoever they are to succeed, then we are all happy.
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