stuart1974
Proper Gas
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 20, 2020 10:38:40 GMT
Financially, Wael has written off any chance that he had to recoup his money by calling in debt. He still owns the Mem, our only viable asset. Thought you said the charge should go to allow for investment. Unless of course the charge is just a "paper exercise".
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 10:40:57 GMT
GI- it would not be difficult to find several posts where you have critiqued the creation of debt. Now that Wael has "uncreated" it you are saying it doesnt matter and makes no difference. I find it incredible how people forget their own words in all of this. I'll confirm it here. It was absolutely awful that a debt so large could be accumulated in so short a time. It was a recipe for disaster. Once the debt was there, it was a paper exercise that makes no difference to the club. The only possible reason I can think of, is that there may shortly be a knew charge put in place. I hope not, but that will be decided by Waels own financial position. It's not even a bad thing necessarily, depending on who the new investors are. Do you understand how companies operate?
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 10:42:53 GMT
Things I have discovered from reading gasinciders posts on this forum over the years. 1 - even a stopped clock is right twice a day. 2 - if you have nothing good to say about someone, it's probably best to say nothing at all, speaking bad can end up causing damage plus resentment from others. 3 - if you say it often enough it must be true as repetition makes a fact seem more true, regardless of whether it is or not. 4 - if you have a broken record try buying a new one, honestly, it will sound better. Apart from all this bullshit, argue the points I've raised, or you add nothing to the debate.
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Post by yategasman on Jun 20, 2020 10:46:01 GMT
Can somebody send an open letter to Wael to thank him for staying with us as he never had to and there many who would have dropped us like a bad habit 😜
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 10:52:21 GMT
He still owns the Mem, our only viable asset. Thought you said the charge should go to allow for investment. Unless of course the charge is just a "paper exercise". I said our club is in the same position today as it was yesterday. So ask yourself, why has Wael now capitalised the debt? The only answer I can come up with is it removes the charge on the Mem, thus opening it up to possible investors to have any funding they make to be guaranteed against our only viable asset. If Wael is funding everything himself yesterday makes no difference to us as a club ongoing. The debt was all internal. There will obviously have been a cost to Wael in terms of buying up his family interests in the club, unless they just wished to wash their hands of it, but that could have been achieved in several different ways, and rightly should only be known to the family. Our only concerns are whatever relates to our club.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 20, 2020 10:53:30 GMT
Yes that’s how I felt but NOT because I wasn’t getting what I wanted it’s because he wasn’t being honest, showing any courage or leadership. For anyone who supports this football club it’s a way of life not getting what you want! I like most other fans support this club through the downs and occasion ups. I’ve been to the likes of Alfreton on a rainy Tuesday to support the team at their lowest in non league. I sold lottery tickets for years, been in helpline, gone to more matches of sh** football than I’d care to remember yet it’s not actually support that I give the club? Sure thing. I’m very happy that WAQ seems to have been able to reincarnate himself and I’m happy also to judge him again on his words and actions from this point on. But he was being honest wasnt he. What by saying nothing for 2 years? It wasn’t honest Hugo, to take the club over and say that winning the Sainsbury’s case wasn’t essential to build UWE. It wasn’t honest to say the training ground would be started and ready by x then y then z. It wasn’t necessarily honest also to say UWE fell through because it wasn’t in best interests of BRFC. It certainly wasn’t honest not to have the courage to face the fans who had mainly adored him when things started to unravel. Anyway, as I say new start from now.
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Post by lavalamp on Jun 20, 2020 10:54:35 GMT
Things I have discovered from reading gasinciders posts on this forum over the years. 1 - even a stopped clock is right twice a day. 2 - if you have nothing good to say about someone, it's probably best to say nothing at all, speaking bad can end up causing damage plus resentment from others. 3 - if you say it often enough it must be true as repetition makes a fact seem more true, regardless of whether it is or not. 4 - if you have a broken record try buying a new one, honestly, it will sound better. Apart from all this bullshit, argue the points I've raised, or you add nothing to the debate. Argue? Why would I want to argue? I'm a lover not a fighter. Discuss I can do, but then other people like to argue.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 20, 2020 10:57:46 GMT
Thought you said the charge should go to allow for investment. Unless of course the charge is just a "paper exercise". I said our club is in the same position today as it was yesterday. So ask yourself, why has Wael now capitalised the debt? The only answer I can come up with is it removes the charge on the Mem, thus opening it up to possible investors to have any funding they make to be guaranteed against our only viable asset. If Wael is funding everything himself yesterday makes no difference to us as a club ongoing. The debt was all internal. There will obviously have been a cost to Wael in terms of buying up his family interests in the club, unless they just wished to wash their hands of it, but that could have been achieved in several different ways, and rightly should only be known to the family. Our only concerns are whatever relates to our club. Lets wait and find out and ask the relevant and pertinent questions then.
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Post by slam on Jun 20, 2020 10:58:18 GMT
Financially, Wael has written off any chance that he had to recoup his money by calling in debt. He still owns the Mem, our only viable asset. He didn't own the Mem before this transaction. Ownership of the Mem was indirectly vested in Dwayne Sports as the shareholder. Wael didn;t have control over Dwayne Sports. Furthermore Dwayne Sports also had a charge on the Mem to cover debt. The difference now is that WAQ has control over Dwayne Sports as the majority shareholder of that Company. The other difference is that there would no longer appear to be a charge over the Mem and, I think, the direct ownership is still vested in one of the two BRFC Companies. What you are implying is that he could sell the Mem to realise some of the value in the shares that he owns. But you could say that of any potential owner of any football club. I personally trust that this statement of commitment is a statement that he will not do that. He can sell his shares in Dwayne Sports but the Mem stays where it is.
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Post by axegas on Jun 20, 2020 11:01:26 GMT
Thought you said the charge should go to allow for investment. Unless of course the charge is just a "paper exercise". I said our club is in the same position today as it was yesterday. So ask yourself, why has Wael now capitalised the debt? The only answer I can come up with is it removes the charge on the Mem, thus opening it up to possible investors to have any funding they make to be guaranteed against our only viable asset.If Wael is funding everything himself yesterday makes no difference to us as a club ongoing. The debt was all internal. There will obviously have been a cost to Wael in terms of buying up his family interests in the club, unless they just wished to wash their hands of it, but that could have been achieved in several different ways, and rightly should only be known to the family. Our only concerns are whatever relates to our club. So then you've answered your own question GI. It removes the charge on the mem something that you've criticised in the past, makes the club more attractive to investors and demonstrates Wael's commitment to the club because as you say in your post he's gone to some expense to buy the rest of the family out. The club is in a very different position to yesterday morning and a much better one at that. You're simply burying your head in the sand and choosing to ignore facts to suit your own agenda against Wael, if you think otherwise.
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Post by LJG on Jun 20, 2020 11:06:19 GMT
GI- it would not be difficult to find several posts where you have critiqued the creation of debt. Now that Wael has "uncreated" it you are saying it doesnt matter and makes no difference. I find it incredible how people forget their own words in all of this. I'll confirm it here. It was absolutely awful that a debt so large could be accumulated in so short a time. It was a recipe for disaster. Once the debt was there, it was a paper exercise that makes no difference to the club. The only possible reason I can think of, is that there may shortly be a knew charge put in place. I hope not, but that will be decided by Waels own financial position. It's not even a bad thing necessarily, depending on who the new investors are. Do you understand how companies operate? Tragic. Absolutely tragic. You complaines about Higgs not pumping cash into the club for 3 years. Then we got new owners and you complained that they're splashing the cash and racking up debt for 3 years. Then when the debt is capitalised you find something new and yet somehow still contradictory to complain about. You have zero credibility and have done for years now. I'm surprised you even bother posting your self-parodies anymore and I'm even more surprised that people nibble on your blatant WUMs and respond. Tragic.
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Post by oliverhelmet on Jun 20, 2020 11:21:13 GMT
Strange how so many people on here seem to have lost the ability to read. I've not changed my opinion on anything yet, because there is no reason to do so. As Wael has said, And I acknowledged, he is going nowhere. Why on earth would I want him to fail? If he fails, it means Rovers fail, and I certainly don't want that. In light of our history, including the advent of the AQ's, we have constantly been let down. Remember 'the funding of the UWE is not an issue'. The training ground was bought to grow grass. The one constant in all this is that everyone connected with our club knew from the outset that the only family member that consistently expressed his wish to remain was Wael. His problem was that Hani didn't want to keep the club. Wael now knows that he is up there to be shot at if he gets it wrong, but that's the bugbear for any club owner. The clearing of the debt announced yesterday, though nice to have, did not need to be done. Our position remains the same. It has obviously raised the hopes of a lot of people on here, and I would love it if it all comes to pass as we all wish. There s no doubt that we finally have an owner who really wants to be here, and that is the best inducement of all to succeed. Under the recently changed ownership, (inter family)we were stagnating because Hani wasn't interested in us. Wael is. The saddest part in all this is the fact that I supposedly hate Wael. Bullshit. I've never hated him. As a supporter I feel that I can express my opinion of the way our club is run. As I said earlier, it will be interesting to see what happens now. All I am saying is, don't start getting carried away with the events of yesterday. I'm surprised how quickly people forget how their hopes are quickly dashed as events in the life of our club move forward. Again, I have no issue with Wael raising money from investors, though that brings outside debt into the equation. It just depends how reliable the investors are. It could be that the guy who wants to build the new stadium might be the possible investor. I don't know. I know he doesn't want the club. If Wael gets this right, and in view of the overall scheme that is planned for redeveloping St Phillips, it maybe the change in our fortunes we have all wished for. But I'm certainly not changing my opinion of how we have been run up to now. To accumulate the debt that quickly was a recipe for disaster. If Wael has learnt from what's gone before, he may yet get his statue. All I want in reality is a championship club(minimum) at a quality stadium at the Fruit Market. If Wael is still here, no problem. Any football fan will tell you that it's success on the pitch that matters, not who owns it. And I as much as anyone wish him well. But I certainly don't retract anything that's gone before. All comments are made in light of current events, by all of us. Some of the most vociferous on here saying he is the messiah, have obviously forgotten some of their recent posts. But as I say, people give opinions on events at the time. It seems I'm not allowed to. Do I care? No. I just want our owners whoever they are to succeed, then we are all happy. Everyone knew this from the outset.Yeh ok - you are nostradamus and I claim my £5.
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Post by madgas on Jun 20, 2020 11:53:36 GMT
GI- it would not be difficult to find several posts where you have critiqued the creation of debt. Now that Wael has "uncreated" it you are saying it doesnt matter and makes no difference. I find it incredible how people forget their own words in all of this. I'll confirm it here. It was absolutely awful that a debt so large could be accumulated in so short a time. It was a recipe for disaster. Once the debt was there, it was a paper exercise that makes no difference to the club. The only possible reason I can think of, is that there may shortly be a knew charge put in place. I hope not, but that will be decided by Waels own financial position. It's not even a bad thing necessarily, depending on who the new investors are. Do you understand how companies operate? I have a reasonable idea- I'm an accountant. My point was not about the operations of companies. To be honest, I think football clubs are not like usual companies and the comparisons whilst work on a level are clumsy. The point I was making is that you had been throwing the accusation of debt at Wael for a long time and now hes written it off. A consistent person would say that's better, or thanks. However, now you state the issue you have been banging on about for 18 months to be trivial matter. Its beyond belief.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 20, 2020 12:13:21 GMT
I'll confirm it here. It was absolutely awful that a debt so large could be accumulated in so short a time. It was a recipe for disaster. Once the debt was there, it was a paper exercise that makes no difference to the club. The only possible reason I can think of, is that there may shortly be a knew charge put in place. I hope not, but that will be decided by Waels own financial position. It's not even a bad thing necessarily, depending on who the new investors are. Do you understand how companies operate? I have a reasonable idea- I'm an accountant. My point was not about the operations of companies. To be honest, I think football clubs are not like usual companies and the comparisons whilst work on a level are clumsy. The point I was making is that you had been throwing the accusation of debt at Wael for a long time and now hes written it off. A consistent person would say that's better, or thanks. However, now you state the issue you have been banging on about for 18 months to be trivial matter. Its beyond belief. He's a vocal member of one of the most outdated members' clubs around, that have been made to look like irrelevant amateurish dinosaurs in the last couple of years. He's throwing his toys out of the pram again, unsurprisingly.
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 12:14:09 GMT
He still owns the Mem, our only viable asset. He didn't own the Mem before this transaction. Ownership of the Mem was indirectly vested in Dwayne Sports as the shareholder. Wael didn;t have control over Dwayne Sports. Furthermore Dwayne Sports also had a charge on the Mem to cover debt. The difference now is that WAQ has control over Dwayne Sports as the majority shareholder of that Company. The other difference is that there would no longer appear to be a charge over the Mem and, I think, the direct ownership is still vested in one of the two BRFC Companies. What you are implying is that he could sell the Mem to realise some of the value in the shares that he owns. But you could say that of any potential owner of any football club. I personally trust that this statement of commitment is a statement that he will not do that. He can sell his shares in Dwayne Sports but the Mem stays where it is. Of course he could, but don't think he will. I was pointing out that clearing the debt made no difference
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Post by LJG on Jun 20, 2020 12:18:04 GMT
He didn't own the Mem before this transaction. Ownership of the Mem was indirectly vested in Dwayne Sports as the shareholder. Wael didn;t have control over Dwayne Sports. Furthermore Dwayne Sports also had a charge on the Mem to cover debt. The difference now is that WAQ has control over Dwayne Sports as the majority shareholder of that Company. The other difference is that there would no longer appear to be a charge over the Mem and, I think, the direct ownership is still vested in one of the two BRFC Companies. What you are implying is that he could sell the Mem to realise some of the value in the shares that he owns. But you could say that of any potential owner of any football club. I personally trust that this statement of commitment is a statement that he will not do that. He can sell his shares in Dwayne Sports but the Mem stays where it is. Of course he could, but don't think he will. I was pointing out that clearing the debt made no difference Then why did you have such a problem with it?
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Post by yattongas on Jun 20, 2020 12:21:36 GMT
Hi gasincider 👋 I’ve just “woken up” .... have we gone bust ?
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 12:21:37 GMT
I have a reasonable idea- I'm an accountant. My point was not about the operations of companies. To be honest, I think football clubs are not like usual companies and the comparisons whilst work on a level are clumsy. The point I was making is that you had been throwing the accusation of debt at Wael for a long time and now hes written it off. A consistent person would say that's better, or thanks. However, now you state the issue you have been banging on about for 18 months to be trivial matter. Its beyond belief. It's beyond belief that you are an accountant and can't see an issue with how the debt rocketed up so quickly. I'd worry for your clients. Nobody said it is trivial, I asked why he's cleared it now when it makes no real difference other than to remove the charge on the Mem. It was awful how it grew so quickly, but that wasn't just down to Wael, as he wasn't in charge. Now he is, and I hope he's taking sensible advise as to the future.
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 12:25:46 GMT
Of course he could, but don't think he will. I was pointing out that clearing the debt made no difference Then why did you have such a problem with it? Problem? I said it makes no difference as he has still carried the debt. Again it will be interesting to see if another charge is put against the stadium. That in itself will not be the pits, depending who the investors are. It's a case of how the monies raised are spent. And as I say, I just hope he is getting good advice.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2020 12:30:13 GMT
Then why did you have such a problem with it? Problem? I said it makes no difference as he has still carried the debt. Again it will be interesting to see if another charge is put against the stadium. That in itself will not be the pits, depending who the investors are. It's a case of how the monies raised are spent. And as I say, I just hope he is getting good advice. Do you think he might leverage an equity swap with the FM Developers, utilising the development value of the Mem footprint?
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