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Post by slam on Jun 20, 2020 9:51:09 GMT
I am going to have to be very careful in how I phrase these thoughts because I don't know all of the facts at the moment. To fully understand the position, I would need to review the accounts of the three companies involved (ie Bristol Rovers Football Club Limited, Bristol Rovers (1883) Limited and Dwayne Sports Limited) to fully understand where the debt lay and to understand how it arose. Also it is important to understand which of these companies owns the major assets of the club (ie The Mem and the Colony).
I do agree with the OP in his title to the thread that it is what happens next that matters.
However, that is probably the only statement or sentiment that I do agree with!!!!!!!
As I see it, Wael's letter is one of the biggest statements of ongoing commitment to the club that could possibly be made at this stage.
It is not true to say that the capitalisation of debt is largely a paper exercise and, by trying to argue that point, the OP is shooting his own argument in the foot. Whilst the various companies containing the debt that were noted, The Club itself was at risk that the Shareholder could walk away from the club, call in that debt and leave the club with nothing - as there was a charge on the assets to cover the debt. By converting the debt into equity (ie new shares in the Company), the shareholder can no longer do that. The only thing that the shareholder can do is to sell his shares to a new buyer - BUT the assets remain within the club.
Financially, Wael has written off any chance that he had to recoup his money by calling in debt.
As I said above - this is a massive statement of commitment to the club and all of its fans.
The supporters or more correctly, the Supporters Club do have the opportunity to place someone on the Board and this is an opportunity for us to scrutinise the ongoing actions of the new Board. I would seriously recommend that we take up that offer BUT that it we accept that this is a responsibility that should be taken seriously and constructively.
We have to trust that this Statement of Commitment is genuine and all pull together for the future of our club. I personally think that our future is far rosier now than it was when we went into lockdown.
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Post by Gasshole on Jun 20, 2020 9:52:29 GMT
I think a 3 day bender happens next 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Jun 20, 2020 9:55:41 GMT
Amid all the euphoria over yesterday's statements by Wael and the club, it's time to take stock over where we are as a football club. Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday. If there is one item of forward movement, it is that the training ground is under way at last. My only question regarding the Colony, was ' how will this all be paid for?' Some on here will understand that the capitalisation of the debt (approx £18m) is largely a paper exercise. So ask yourself, why is this being done now. There is nowt wrong in it, but it's the rationale behind it that we need to come to terms with. Outwardly, clearing the debt makes us far more attractive to investors. Again nothing wrong with that. Some on here think Wael has just splashed out £18m. He hasn't. Wael has always said he was he was committed to the club, which is why when his family recently considered selling to the people who wish to build the stadium at the fruit market, he stood firmly and said he wanted to retain the club. I don't know if Wael has inherited vast wealth on the sad loss of his father, but it's easy to misconstrue the two. So my take on all this is follows:- Going back to paragraph 2, again I ask, how are we paying for the Colony redevelopment? I believe the total initial outlay is approx £2m. Now that 'the debt' has been cleared, remember that old chstnut THE CHARGE ON THE MEM? Now that there is no debt, presumably the charge has been satisfied, and can now be removed. So what are the consequences of that? Well, it makes it far easier for raising capital against the value of the Mem for a start. You see, it's one thing to want to run a football club, but it's another to be mad enough to want to spend millions doing it. If Wael doesn't have the money that many on here seem to think he has, this is one way of getting enough funding to keep us going for a while. Longer term? Well that depends how long the money lasts. I remember our previous owner putting us in the proverbial when he borrowed money from MSP to fund the club. But come the day of reckoning, he couldn't pay it back and had to sell the club. I hope this isn't about to happen again. As i sày, I hope that Wael will be very careful with whatever happens next, because I doubt we will find a white knight to rescue us. As for the new stadium? The only question is (once again) who will pay for it? Well the developer who wants to build the stadium at the Fruit Market has never wanted to own the club, because he is a property man. Is he prepared to build the stadium? As far as I know the answer is yes. But the Mem is a precondition of that. He wants to redevelop it for housing. So to get us out he would build the new stadium, and lease it to us. But, a friend who works at the Fruit Market, told me recently that according to an email sent to the management there, it's BRISTOL ROVERS who have bought the site, but it will take 5 to 10 years to resettle the businesses there and build the stadium. It could easily be the same guy who has bought it, and assuming he has done a deal with Wael, will build it and then redevelop the Mem. Will he wait up to 10 years to get his money back? I suppose he could move us elsewhere in the meantime to speed up his returns. I hope not. So in summation, training ground, brilliant but where is the money coming from? Clearing the charge on the Mem allows for capital raising to enable the club to continue, though like everyone else I hope this is not the case. New stadium, yes it's finally happening, but what sort of deal will the club get to use it ? The annual rental at any reasonable level (please no more than about £1m per year) is most likely sustainable as long as we get to keep all the income the stadium generates. A big if. As they say, follow the money, and importantly, follow what happens at Companies house with regard to removal of one charge, and a possible insertion of another. It all brings two old old sayings to mind, 'if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is', and 'it's the hope that kills you'. As with everyone else on here, I hope Wael has got this nailed, and that we have a future to look forward to. I just hope he doesn't have to go borrowing money from dodgy investors that may put our whole future at risk. Thank you for your views.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 20, 2020 9:57:34 GMT
Whilst Gasincider is taking the grief here, there are a few more that need to up their game. The epost and Ali Durden/BBC may need to revise their informant list. Both organisations went with the Unicorn takeover consortium earlier in the year combined with the Fruit Bat Stadium development. To most this appeared to be a rouse to destabilise and grab the Mem on the cheap. Any additional finance requirements or stadium development can be done on Wael’s terms so hopefully he will now be the sole source of information It was pretty clear people were trying to destabilise the club and force Wael out too. Fair play to him, lesser men would have walked. Perhaps it's time for Wael to man up and tell certain people they are no longer welcome at the Mem? There's clearly been a campaign by Knowall/Fanatical, Gasincider, Jim Chappell, & KM to undermine Wael, are they really Rovers supporters or just concerned with looking after their own interests, whatever they may be? One thing for certain is the SC needs disbanding and replaced with a new organisation.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jun 20, 2020 9:59:11 GMT
The day the ALQ family took over from the almost ruinous custody of Higgs I was ecstatic that we appeared saved. I was even more ecstatic when we were told that we no longer needed to win a court case against Sainsbury’s to build UWE. The new owners told us all what we wanted to hear. The fan base at that moment was almost as one. Personally I continued to have absolute faith in the ALQ ownership until 3rd August 2017 when they pulled out of UWE and WAQ didn’t have the courage to face up to the fans and sent Hamer out to give his Crazy Gang speech. That faith was further destroyed by the man who had been carried down the Gloucester Rd by his adoring fans not having the courage to talk to those fans for nigh on 2 years. At a time he needed to show leadership he went absent. That all said, his circumstances have now changed and he has the absolute power he didn’t have then. He may also have a lot more personal wealth than he did then. The actions he’s just taken to buy out Hani and write off money already put in would have come at a considerable personal cost. All the actions of somebody who clearly is committed to the FC and wants to progress it. So, it looks like we could now get the owners we thought we were getting in the first place, and it’s a reincarnated WAQ that will now deliver unhampered by other shareholders less enthused than him. I do hope so. He has a chance now to be what he said he wanted to be and despite what’s gone on before I am back on board supporting him. Maybe I have slightly more caution than when I last threw my lot in with him though, once bitten twice shy and all that, but this is like a complete takeover and I’m happy to see it as such, for now and give the new owners the benefit of any doubt. Make sure you're ready to call him a despot dictator, sh** owner, Fake Sheikh, and coward, next time he doesn't do exactly what you want when you want it, mind.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 20, 2020 10:08:31 GMT
The day the ALQ family took over from the almost ruinous custody of Higgs I was ecstatic that we appeared saved. I was even more ecstatic when we were told that we no longer needed to win a court case against Sainsbury’s to build UWE. The new owners told us all what we wanted to hear. The fan base at that moment was almost as one. Personally I continued to have absolute faith in the ALQ ownership until 3rd August 2017 when they pulled out of UWE and WAQ didn’t have the courage to face up to the fans and sent Hamer out to give his Crazy Gang speech. That faith was further destroyed by the man who had been carried down the Gloucester Rd by his adoring fans not having the courage to talk to those fans for nigh on 2 years. At a time he needed to show leadership he went absent. That all said, his circumstances have now changed and he has the absolute power he didn’t have then. He may also have a lot more personal wealth than he did then. The actions he’s just taken to buy out Hani and write off money already put in would have come at a considerable personal cost. All the actions of somebody who clearly is committed to the FC and wants to progress it. So, it looks like we could now get the owners we thought we were getting in the first place, and it’s a reincarnated WAQ that will now deliver unhampered by other shareholders less enthused than him. I do hope so. He has a chance now to be what he said he wanted to be and despite what’s gone on before I am back on board supporting him. Maybe I have slightly more caution than when I last threw my lot in with him though, once bitten twice shy and all that, but this is like a complete takeover and I’m happy to see it as such, for now and give the new owners the benefit of any doubt. Make sure you're ready to call him a despot dictator, sh** owner, Fake Sheikh, and coward, next time he doesn't do exactly what you want when you want it, mind. It has NOTHING to do with what I want and never has done. It’s about trusting people at their word. If he’d come in and simply said we’re saving the club from bankruptcy, we’ll slowly build the club back up but in meantime UWE won’t happen on current terms, he’d have had no stick from me. Just the same as the Dunfords got no stick from most fans saying pretty much that, as they took us off to a non league ground 15 miles away.
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 10:10:10 GMT
GI, you're clearly a smart bloke and know a thing or two about business. I already read your posts with intrigue, although I certainly don't agree with most of them. However, when you say "Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday" - I'm genuinely baffled by this statement. I think the overall point you're trying to make is a good one, and it's correct. But as many have said, it's tainted by general negativity over Wael's actions, rather than seeing this a fresh start where we can learn from out mistakes. Fair question. The reason I said the debt situation hasn't changed anything, was because the debt was internal. In other words, as the whole debt was Waels, it didn't matter. As an exercise in making us more marketable, it certainly helps. Moreso if Wael is looking for investors. It means the charge on the Mem, our only viable asset, is gone, and the ground is now unencumbered. It can therefore be used as a guarantee for any potential new investor. I'm not saying it will be, just that it can be. With regard to your last point, due to various issues raised over the years I have not been convinced by Wael. Now that he has taken over from Hani, it could be as 'Feeling the Blues' has stated, that he is no longer being held back by other people, and it might well be the renaissance that Wael has needed. I hope so, because that would mean we would all benefit.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jun 20, 2020 10:14:38 GMT
Make sure you're ready to call him a despot dictator, sh** owner, Fake Sheikh, and coward, next time he doesn't do exactly what you want when you want it, mind. It has NOTHING to do with what I want and never has done. It’s about trusting people at their word. If he’d come in and simply said we’re saving the club from bankruptcy, we’ll slowly build the club back up but in meantime UWE won’t happen on current terms, he’d have had no stick from me. Just the same as the Dunfords got no stick from most fans saying pretty much that, as they took us off to a non league ground 15 miles away. Course it does, he didn't do what you wanted when you wanted it and so you called him a load of names. Hint: It's not actually supoort if you're getting what you want, it's just getting what you want. It's support when it's not going well and you need to back them against the odds. 'Atrocious cowardly owners', 'fantasist', 'dishonest', 'f**king w**k', 'Wael Al Qadi get out of our club!'
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 20, 2020 10:14:54 GMT
That Masters-esq epititah of a post could be summed up this way...
Wael has made you lot look like right turkeys.
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 10:16:43 GMT
Pure speculation on my part There has been long time hair pulling out over a massive debt. Massive abuse. The debt is removed and it now seems it never was a debt by some! Waverers switching side from pessimist to optimist. Anyone with construction knowledge would know that a fruit market would be a steel framed building on an industrial site with outline planning use already agreed. Construction would be achieved in much less than 10 months not the 10 years stated. Some industrial developers have buildings already built standing empty waiting for a tenant either for lease or purchase. Move in within the month. Stadiums as we all now know would take longer but if a site was about to be purchased most of the planning and outline design ground work would have been already "agreed" by Planning Dept in private meetings. If as suggested a site is about to be agreed 2 years for the construction would be well within realistic time frames for a first home game 3 seasons away. 2 seasons away might be possible is the stadium is phased with only say 2 sides built You are of course correct. In fact I was told that on completion of a deal, the companies at the fruit market would have 12 months to relocate, and then construction to begin. The 5-10 year bit is what was in the email to the managers at the fruit market. I find that ridiculous, as I said at the time. Why would anyone tie money up for that length of time with nothing to show for it. It would be be great if Wael could buy the land and build the stadium himself. The reality is that that is not likely. So my whole point is, who is currently funding us? If it's Wael, ok. If it's not I just hope it's not another Charlton Athketic situation that almost brought the club down.
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Post by madgas on Jun 20, 2020 10:23:58 GMT
GI, you're clearly a smart bloke and know a thing or two about business. I already read your posts with intrigue, although I certainly don't agree with most of them. However, when you say "Our club today, in reality, is in the same place as it was yesterday" - I'm genuinely baffled by this statement. I think the overall point you're trying to make is a good one, and it's correct. But as many have said, it's tainted by general negativity over Wael's actions, rather than seeing this a fresh start where we can learn from out mistakes. Fair question. The reason I said the debt situation hasn't changed anything, was because the debt was internal. In other words, as the whole debt was Waels, it didn't matter. As an exercise in making us more marketable, it certainly helps. Moreso if Wael is looking for investors. It means the charge on the Mem, our only viable asset, is gone, and the ground is now unencumbered. It can therefore be used as a guarantee for any potential new investor. I'm not saying it will be, just that it can be. With regard to your last point, due to various issues raised over the years I have not been convinced by Wael. Now that he has taken over from Hani, it could be as 'Feeling the Blues' has stated, that he is no longer being held back by other people, and it might well be the renaissance that Wael has needed. I hope so, because that would mean we would all benefit. GI- it would not be difficult to find several posts where you have critiqued the creation of debt. Now that Wael has "uncreated" it you are saying it doesnt matter and makes no difference. I find it incredible how people forget their own words in all of this.
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 10:26:09 GMT
Financially, Wael has written off any chance that he had to recoup his money by calling in debt. He still owns the Mem, our only viable asset.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jun 20, 2020 10:28:17 GMT
It has NOTHING to do with what I want and never has done. It’s about trusting people at their word. If he’d come in and simply said we’re saving the club from bankruptcy, we’ll slowly build the club back up but in meantime UWE won’t happen on current terms, he’d have had no stick from me. Just the same as the Dunfords got no stick from most fans saying pretty much that, as they took us off to a non league ground 15 miles away. Course it does, he didn't do what you wanted when you wanted it and so you called him a load of names. Hint: It's not actually supoort if you're getting what you want, it's just getting what you want. It's support when it's not going well and you need to back them against the odds. 'Atrocious cowardly owners', 'fantasist', 'dishonest', 'f**king w**k', 'Wael Al Qadi get out of our club!' I think clueless, shambolic, and idiotic were other phrases used to describe our owner. As well as sleepwalking into oblivion.
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Post by gasincider on Jun 20, 2020 10:32:26 GMT
It was pretty clear people were trying to destabilise the club and force Wael out too. Fair play to him, lesser men would have walked. Perhaps it's time for Wael to man up and tell certain people they are no longer welcome at the Mem? There's clearly been a campaign by Knowall/Fanatical, Gasincider, Jim Chappell, & KM to undermine Wael, are they really Rovers supporters or just concerned with looking after their own interests, whatever they may be? One thing for certain is the SC needs disbanding and replaced with a new organisation. Here we go. The answer to everything is to ban people. Thank you for your constructive comments. If you want to be a nodding donkey, feel free. One of the guys who changes his opinions more often than his socks. If companies are not held to account, or in our case, football clubs, they become closet dictatorships that learn nothing and slide into chaos. Our previous owner did that with his attitude of 'it's my money I'll do it my way'. I just hope Wael has learnt from what's gone before and brings us the success we all crave.
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Post by mariobalotelli on Jun 20, 2020 10:32:32 GMT
Choo choo it’s the doom n gloom train
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Post by lavalamp on Jun 20, 2020 10:32:59 GMT
Things I have discovered from reading gasinciders posts on this forum over the years.
1 - even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
2 - if you have nothing good to say about someone, it's probably best to say nothing at all, speaking bad can end up causing damage plus resentment from others.
3 - if you say it often enough it must be true as repetition makes a fact seem more true, regardless of whether it is or not.
4 - if you have a broken record try buying a new one, honestly, it will sound better.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on Jun 20, 2020 10:33:44 GMT
It has NOTHING to do with what I want and never has done. It’s about trusting people at their word. If he’d come in and simply said we’re saving the club from bankruptcy, we’ll slowly build the club back up but in meantime UWE won’t happen on current terms, he’d have had no stick from me. Just the same as the Dunfords got no stick from most fans saying pretty much that, as they took us off to a non league ground 15 miles away. Course it does, he didn't do what you wanted when you wanted it and so you called him a load of names. Hint: It's not actually supoort if you're getting what you want, it's just getting what you want. It's support when it's not going well and you need to back them against the odds. 'Atrocious cowardly owners', 'fantasist', 'dishonest', 'f**king w**k', 'Wael Al Qadi get out of our club!' Yes that’s how I felt but NOT because I wasn’t getting what I wanted it’s because he wasn’t being honest, showing any courage or leadership. For anyone who supports this football club it’s a way of life not getting what you want! I like most other fans support this club through the downs and occasion ups. I’ve been to the likes of Alfreton on a rainy Tuesday to support the team at their lowest in non league. I sold lottery tickets for years, been in helpline, gone to more matches of sh** football than I’d care to remember yet it’s not actually support that I give the club? Sure thing. I’m very happy that WAQ seems to have been able to reincarnate himself and I’m happy also to judge him again on his words and actions from this point on.
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Post by peterparker on Jun 20, 2020 10:35:19 GMT
Pure speculation on my part There has been long time hair pulling out over a massive debt. Massive abuse. The debt is removed and it now seems it never was a debt by some! Waverers switching side from pessimist to optimist. Anyone with construction knowledge would know that a fruit market would be a steel framed building on an industrial site with outline planning use already agreed. Construction would be achieved in much less than 10 months not the 10 years stated. Some industrial developers have buildings already built standing empty waiting for a tenant either for lease or purchase. Move in within the month. Stadiums as we all now know would take longer but if a site was about to be purchased most of the planning and outline design ground work would have been already "agreed" by Planning Dept in private meetings. If as suggested a site is about to be agreed 2 years for the construction would be well within realistic time frames for a first home game 3 seasons away. 2 seasons away might be possible is the stadium is phased with only say 2 sides built You are of course correct. In fact I was told that on completion of a deal, the companies at the fruit market would have 12 months to relocate, and then construction to begin. The 5-10 year bit is what was in the email to the managers at the fruit market. I find that ridiculous, as I said at the time. Why would anyone tie money up for that length of time with nothing to show for it. It would be be great if Wael could buy the land and build the stadium himself. The reality is that that is not likely. So my whole point is, who is currently funding us? If it's Wael, ok. If it's not I just hope it's not another Charlton Athketic situation that almost brought the club down. How long is a piece of string? Lets just wait to see what is announced before we ask the questions, otherwise its just watering in the wind
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2020 10:36:00 GMT
It was pretty clear people were trying to destabilise the club and force Wael out too. Fair play to him, lesser men would have walked. Perhaps it's time for Wael to man up and tell certain people they are no longer welcome at the Mem? There's clearly been a campaign by Knowall/Fanatical, Gasincider, Jim Chappell, & KM to undermine Wael, are they really Rovers supporters or just concerned with looking after their own interests, whatever they may be? One thing for certain is the SC needs disbanding and replaced with a new organisation. No Rovers fan should be turned away. Its clear that GI and I dont agree on many things but we do agree that we both want the club to succeed. It would be a sorry time for us if BRFC started turning life long fans away just because they didnt like what they had to say.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 20, 2020 10:37:19 GMT
Course it does, he didn't do what you wanted when you wanted it and so you called him a load of names. Hint: It's not actually supoort if you're getting what you want, it's just getting what you want. It's support when it's not going well and you need to back them against the odds. 'Atrocious cowardly owners', 'fantasist', 'dishonest', 'f**king w**k', 'Wael Al Qadi get out of our club!' Yes that’s how I felt but NOT because I wasn’t getting what I wanted it’s because he wasn’t being honest, showing any courage or leadership. For anyone who supports this football club it’s a way of life not getting what you want! I like most other fans support this club through the downs and occasion ups. I’ve been to the likes of Alfreton on a rainy Tuesday to support the team at their lowest in non league. I sold lottery tickets for years, been in helpline, gone to more matches of sh** football than I’d care to remember yet it’s not actually support that I give the club? Sure thing. I’m very happy that WAQ seems to have been able to reincarnate himself and I’m happy also to judge him again on his words and actions from this point on. But he was being honest wasnt he.
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