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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 0:08:50 GMT
I remember when Ehmer, Westbrooke, Hanlan, Baldwin, and Grant were signed everyone said we were assembling a squad capable of promotion based on the reputation and data we could all look at across various websites at the time. In fact we were all stunned to get Westbrooke. These players dont become bad players overnight. SO it must be down to the coaching. Some interesting numbers here from this season: Ben Garner Played 11 Won 3 Drew 3 Lost 5 Tisdale Played 10 Won 3 Drew 1 Lost 6 We were actually better off under Garner if that was entirely possible, but its worth noting that Garner had played 4 of the top 6 in that first 11 games and Tisdale has played 5 of the bottom 10. Which means Tisdale must take a long hard look at himself and his management. It’s very simplistic to deduce it’s the coaching. Have any of these players found themselves in this precise set of circumstances before? Surrounded by players who collectively aren’t up to it, not a leader in sight either on the pitch or off it and staring a relegation battle in the face? As individuals the ones with experience will have had tough times in the game but most likely they had strong characters round them to lift them up where they lack the ability to lift themselves up. We don’t have leaders and from the looks of it none of our players bar maybe Hanlan has the right mental strength, so before looking at the coaching you have to look at the character of the squad as a whole. There is a reason why experience and balls are sought after in the lower leagues and we are seeing clearly what happens when you try and construct a squad out of players who are technically better than most at the this level but absolutely powder puff in the tackle and short of spirit. Edit: to bring it back to the gist of your post we would need to see how they started the season under Tisdale for a fair comparison. Don’t forget that our decent results came during something of a purple patch under Garner then we hit the skids and Tisdale had to come in and pick up the pieces. So the players were already mentally in a rut before Tisdale took charge of his first game. It’s not like the situation Garner inherited where he masterfully took over a team high on confidence and did a one man job of dragging it back down the table.
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Post by socrates on Jan 24, 2021 0:35:59 GMT
The problem is that this is BGs team and squad.. He signed so many players in the summer, no doubt on big wages with 2 year contracts in their pockets and apart from hanlan and tutonda, they've been shockingly bad. PT can't just release them and bring his own in, it would bankrupt us. The changes need to be gradual. All those on here trumpeting zain westbrooke like he was the second coming are left with egg over their faces now as are those who said they wouldn't have matty taylor back because of stupid pride. What we'd do for a goalscorer now. Matty Taylor now there was a fantastic striker for us. Got him for nothing out of Forest green reserves paid him next to sod all and he scored over a goal every other game consistently for us through back to back promotions and then a top half finish. Makes me laugh that Sh1!heads always make up songs about him and praise him like he’s one of their own. They paid him 1.6 m quid over two years and he never did anything for them total waste of money where he was brilliant for us and helped get us from the conference to league 1 on a shoe string. All those billions they’ve wasted and it came down to poaching a striker from A non league team a couple of years before to stop skint Rovers leapfrogging them. Embarrassing ! yet they always seem to bring it up it’s obviously lost on them how useless they are with all that money. If lansdown knew what he was doing City would have been premier league years ago and stayed there but hasn’t even managed one season. . But yeah great striker for us saw where the money was local and used them and now back scoring in league 1 . Cracking forward at this level.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jan 24, 2021 0:38:57 GMT
Come back all is forgiven!!
Him and Hanlan...now there is something to dream about.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 0:48:20 GMT
The problem is that this is BGs team and squad.. He signed so many players in the summer, no doubt on big wages with 2 year contracts in their pockets and apart from hanlan and tutonda, they've been shockingly bad. PT can't just release them and bring his own in, it would bankrupt us. The changes need to be gradual. All those on here trumpeting zain westbrooke like he was the second coming are left with egg over their faces now as are those who said they wouldn't have matty taylor back because of stupid pride. What we'd do for a goalscorer now. Matty Taylor now there was a fantastic striker for us. Got him for nothing out of Forest green reserves paid him next to sod all and he scored over a goal every other game consistently for us through back to back promotions and then a top half finish. Makes me laugh that Sh1!heads always make up songs about him and praise him like he’s one of their own. They paid him 1.6 m quid over two years and he never did anything for them total waste of money where he was brilliant for us and helped get us from the conference to league 1 on a shoe string. All those billions they’ve wasted and it came down to poaching a striker from A non league team a couple of years before to stop skint Rovers leapfrogging them. Embarrassing ! yet they always seem to bring it up it’s obviously lost on them how useless they are with all that money. If lansdown knew what he was doing City would have been premier league years ago and stayed there but hasn’t even managed one season. . But yeah great striker for us saw where the money was local and used them and now back scoring in league 1 . Cracking forward at this level. That one pass he made to Smith against man United will have gone a long way to making back his fee and wages
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Post by socrates on Jan 24, 2021 1:10:19 GMT
Matty Taylor now there was a fantastic striker for us. Got him for nothing out of Forest green reserves paid him next to sod all and he scored over a goal every other game consistently for us through back to back promotions and then a top half finish. Makes me laugh that Sh1!heads always make up songs about him and praise him like he’s one of their own. They paid him 1.6 m quid over two years and he never did anything for them total waste of money where he was brilliant for us and helped get us from the conference to league 1 on a shoe string. All those billions they’ve wasted and it came down to poaching a striker from A non league team a couple of years before to stop skint Rovers leapfrogging them. Embarrassing ! yet they always seem to bring it up it’s obviously lost on them how useless they are with all that money. If lansdown knew what he was doing City would have been premier league years ago and stayed there but hasn’t even managed one season. . But yeah great striker for us saw where the money was local and used them and now back scoring in league 1 . Cracking forward at this level. That one pass he made to Smith against man United will have gone a long way to making back his fee and wages Yeah maybe but someone Else could have made that pass if Taylor hadn’t. Overall he was there over 2 years and scored 7 goals that works out at £200,000 near enough a goal in wages.. He knew what he was doing when he went there and he knew he wasn’t going to be their star player he went there to make a killing and then drop back to league 1 and score goals. Decent money for him but not them. makes me laugh when the sh** bring him up to upset us though as he was brilliant for us and crap for them. Great value for us , terrible value for money for them.
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Post by pucklechurchgas on Jan 24, 2021 1:14:22 GMT
Those 4 who picked BG are on a wind up. Blame Tisdales selections all you like but ultimately his hands are tied. BG chose the side that we went into September with and that was a side with 1 senior striker. Tisdale is obviously doing his best to bring one in but it’s a big ask at the best of times let alone in January. Tisdale has a very hard job with what he has inherited. However, his tactics so far have been less than inspiring, and often lacking common sense. Such as bringing on a defender for tactical reasons in the 88th minute and consistently sitting deep with 5 at the back and playing 1 up top regardless of the game situation.
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Post by rosssgb on Jan 24, 2021 3:13:22 GMT
Those 4 who picked BG are on a wind up. Blame Tisdales selections all you like but ultimately his hands are tied. BG chose the side that we went into September with and that was a side with 1 senior striker. Tisdale is obviously doing his best to bring one in but it’s a big ask at the best of times let alone in January. Tisdale has a very hard job with what he has inherited. However, his tactics so far have been less than inspiring, and often lacking common sense. Such as bringing on a defender for tactical reasons in the 88th minute and consistently sitting deep with 5 at the back and playing 1 up top regardless of the game situation. 100% this. I feel we’ve been sold down the river with all of this recruitment talk about DNA/identity. How can this be the case when he chops and changes the team and tactics every 5 minutes? The whole point of a ‘DNA’ is to deploy a similar style of team and formation. Whether that’s a 4231 that can become a 442 when needed etc. It has to have some elements of consistency. To keep changing from 5 at the back (with a centre back as a right wing back!!!) to 4 at the back the next week, and god knows what the next week, where is this consistency and philosophy? It seems we don’t have one and aren’t even attempting to create one - albeit I totally understand he’s inherited a weird mixture of players (which let’s also be real TW played a big part in). We’re in a big mess and Tisdale needs to settle on a few constants - first of which for me is to f**k off this 5 at the back nonsense. We don’t have the players for it and it clearly hasn’t worked, it got Garner the sack and if we continue with it we’ll be going down. God knows why he persists with it. It’s a shame to be so negative so early on into his tenure, and I still am hopeful he can turn it around (he certainly talks a good game) but as some have mentioned on here today you really do have to question what he’s trying to achieve. Harries playing attacking midfield was a personal highlight. Reminded me of Virgo playing right wing away at Wycombe under McGhee! Also I’ve seen a few scapegoating Westbrooke, I suppose he’s not a ‘sprint around and hurt people’ type player so he’s never going to get love on here, but use him properly and there’s a real player there imo. Championship quality (yes well done TW but throw enough mud at a wall some will stick!). Anyway, suppose things can’t get much worse, and if we do go down we might get back to the Mem in time to watch us win a few games!
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Post by bridgwatergas on Jan 24, 2021 9:37:32 GMT
Those 4 who picked BG are on a wind up. Blame Tisdales selections all you like but ultimately his hands are tied. BG chose the side that we went into September with and that was a side with 1 senior striker. Tisdale is obviously doing his best to bring one in but it’s a big ask at the best of times let alone in January. Not at all on the wind up as i believe we would be in a better position with BG still here. Yes I am blaming PT selections there were still players there that could have played and we could have set up differently. How an earth Ogogo got a start yesterday beggars believe and no surprise to see the performance we got from him. We have 4 left backs surely one of them could have temporarily filled in as a RB instead of playing ME out there I would even have given Rodman 60/70 minutes. Why revert to a back 5 when we were so much better with a 4. We have always looked better when we have set up to have ago at teams and now have set up to be defensive when one of our main problems have been defending. I sense the players,bar maybe Alfie,enjoyed playing under BG I sense that some don't seem to buy into PT.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Jan 24, 2021 9:42:38 GMT
Those 4 who picked BG are on a wind up. Blame Tisdales selections all you like but ultimately his hands are tied. BG chose the side that we went into September with and that was a side with 1 senior striker. Tisdale is obviously doing his best to bring one in but it’s a big ask at the best of times let alone in January. Not at all on the wind up as i believe we would be in a better position with BG still here. Yes I am blaming PT selections there were still players there that could have played and we could have set up differently. How an earth Ogogo got a start yesterday beggars believe and no surprise to see the performance we got from him. We have 4 left backs surely one of them could have temporarily filled in as a RB instead of playing ME out there I would even have given Rodman 60/70 minutes. Why revert to a back 5 when we were so much better with a 4. We have always looked better when we have set up to have ago at teams and now have set up to be defensive when one of our main problems have been defending. I sense the players,bar maybe Alfie,enjoyed playing under BG I sense that some don't seem to buy into PT. We were only going down under Garner. This season was a continuation of the dross we saw after Dec 19. We were in a false place and I believe we’d be in a worse place if he’d have stayed on. We don’t have any goalscorers other than Hanlan. That’s not on PTs head. Style of play or not to have less strikers, hedging your bets on only Daly and Ayunga was massively naive. Simple really, don’t have attacking players, you’re going to struggle to get goals.
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Post by bridgwatergas on Jan 24, 2021 9:50:43 GMT
Not at all on the wind up as i believe we would be in a better position with BG still here. Yes I am blaming PT selections there were still players there that could have played and we could have set up differently. How an earth Ogogo got a start yesterday beggars believe and no surprise to see the performance we got from him. We have 4 left backs surely one of them could have temporarily filled in as a RB instead of playing ME out there I would even have given Rodman 60/70 minutes. Why revert to a back 5 when we were so much better with a 4. We have always looked better when we have set up to have ago at teams and now have set up to be defensive when one of our main problems have been defending. I sense the players,bar maybe Alfie,enjoyed playing under BG I sense that some don't seem to buy into PT. We were only going down under Garner. This season was a continuation of the dross we saw after Dec 19. We were in a false place and I believe we’d be in a worse place if he’d have stayed on. We don’t have any goalscorers other than Hanlan. That’s not on PTs head. Style of play or not to have less strikers, hedging your bets on only Daly and Ayunga was massively naive. Simple really, don’t have attacking players, you’re going to struggle to get goals. No proof we would have gone down under BG and some of the dross served up by him was nowhere near what I watched yesterday. I also believe BG would have got someone in by now with the connections he had even it was a loan whilst trying to get someone in permanently later in the window. But then I also think we wouldn't be in the position we are now if he was still here but it's all about opinions. PT will send us down if he carries on messing around with the team as he is and that's not BGs fault it lies further up the chain.
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Post by clayts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 9:56:14 GMT
A false position? Lower than we should be due to playing all the promotion chasing teams?
We were 18th when Garner was sacked, he had 4 wins and 3 draws in his last 10 games prior.
If PT had that record now everyone would be over the moon.
A lot of fans didn’t like Garner from the start. Perhaps a cravat and some cryptic interview nonsense in his next job would help him?
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 24, 2021 10:07:10 GMT
I think it’s easy to click the “someone else” option but the reality is, whoever comes in has to work with this squad. Only the last two games where Tisdale has lined up super defensively have I questioned his decision making, up until the FA Cup game I don’t think anyone had too many complaints with Tisdale at the helm. We just need Ozzy and Nicholson back plus a new striker and it will make a big difference, I’m confident about that. Give Tisdale a bit of time to shape the squad to his liking and I think we’ll see a much different Rovers side to the one currently. It all feels like when Alan Gow got injured though, one decent player in the squad and we were relying on him to keep us up until he got injured. Nicholson and Daly have been unreliable from day one, they’re allowed to be injured, of course, but it’s classic relegation stuff when your best players have spent a fair chunk of the season unavailable to us. It’s last chance saloon time for Wael now. I’m not sure how the salary cap stuff works I must admit and how much wriggle room he has to make changes. We need a Higgsy-esque squad transfusion right now. Garner and golden bollocks Widdrington have f**ked it right up, between them. What a ridiculous post! So if I understand you the last chance saloon usually means that he’s close to being sacked. How would that work? At the moment it’s Wael who’s keeping this club afloat. Without him we’d all be posting about forming an AFC Bristol Rovers FC club and hoping we do it quickly enough to be in the National League next season, and not a disappointing loss to Oxford in League 1. Nothing like the 13/14 season. We never had the quality of Oztumer, Daly, Hanlan nor Nicholson then to call on. Once Ozzy has fully recovered from CV and once the others are fit we’ll be fine. But we do need to sign a striker this month just like we did last window. But I get your frustration and I hope Tis will bring a cooler head to the situation we’re in than most on here, I’m sure he will. And again, only imo, it would be stupid to even think about changing managers. It would make us a total laughing stock amongst all football followers as well as giving the panic signs to everyone, not least the players and any team we play. UTG!
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Post by rememberhalifax on Jan 24, 2021 10:18:33 GMT
It all feels like when Alan Gow got injured though, one decent player in the squad and we were relying on him to keep us up until he got injured. Nicholson and Daly have been unreliable from day one, they’re allowed to be injured, of course, but it’s classic relegation stuff when your best players have spent a fair chunk of the season unavailable to us. It’s last chance saloon time for Wael now. I’m not sure how the salary cap stuff works I must admit and how much wriggle room he has to make changes. We need a Higgsy-esque squad transfusion right now. Garner and golden bollocks Widdrington have f**ked it right up, between them. What a ridiculous post! So if I understand you the last chance saloon usually means that he’s close to being sacked. How would that work? At the moment it’s Wael who’s keeping this club afloat. Without him we’d all be posting about forming an AFC Bristol Rovers FC club and hoping we do it quickly enough to be in the National League next season, and not a disappointing loss to Oxford in League 1. Nothing like the 13/14 season. We never had the quality of Oztumer, Daly, Hanlan nor Nicholson then to call on. Once Ozzy has fully recovered from CV and once the others are fit we’ll be fine. But we do need to sign a striker this month just like we did last window. But I get your frustration and I hope Tis will bring a cooler head to the situation we’re in than most on here, I’m sure he will. And again, only imo, it would be stupid to even think about changing managers. It would make us a total laughing stock amongst all football followers as well as giving the panic signs to everyone, not least the players and any team we play. UTG! Ah ,the voice of reason! This is a very depressing forum when we are on a bad run and it would be easy to walk away from it but then you see the odd rational post and a poll in which two thirds of fans back the manager and you realise 'you are not alone in your faith'!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 10:29:41 GMT
Not at all on the wind up as i believe we would be in a better position with BG still here. Yes I am blaming PT selections there were still players there that could have played and we could have set up differently. How an earth Ogogo got a start yesterday beggars believe and no surprise to see the performance we got from him. We have 4 left backs surely one of them could have temporarily filled in as a RB instead of playing ME out there I would even have given Rodman 60/70 minutes. Why revert to a back 5 when we were so much better with a 4. We have always looked better when we have set up to have ago at teams and now have set up to be defensive when one of our main problems have been defending. I sense the players,bar maybe Alfie,enjoyed playing under BG I sense that some don't seem to buy into PT. We were only going down under Garner. This season was a continuation of the dross we saw after Dec 19. We were in a false place and I believe we’d be in a worse place if he’d have stayed on. We don’t have any goalscorers other than Hanlan. That’s not on PTs head. Style of play or not to have less strikers, hedging your bets on only Daly and Ayunga was massively naive. Simple really, don’t have attacking players, you’re going to struggle to get goals. Also what doesn’t appear to be acknowledged is that Garner had Jaakkola and Daly available to him far more than Tisdale has, those are two very significant injuries especially when you consider that one of them literally halved our scoring striker tally overnight. Take Daly out Jaakkola out of Garner’s team and we’d have been even more f**ked under him than we already were. It may not work out under s Tisdale, but that doesn’t give Garner’s sacking less justification. It just means we’ve hired two sh** managers instead of just one.
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Post by clayts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 10:35:25 GMT
We were only going down under Garner. This season was a continuation of the dross we saw after Dec 19. We were in a false place and I believe we’d be in a worse place if he’d have stayed on. We don’t have any goalscorers other than Hanlan. That’s not on PTs head. Style of play or not to have less strikers, hedging your bets on only Daly and Ayunga was massively naive. Simple really, don’t have attacking players, you’re going to struggle to get goals. Also what doesn’t appear to be acknowledged is that Garner had Jaakkola and Daly available to him far more than Tisdale has, those are two very significant injuries especially when you consider that one of them literally halved our scoring striker tally overnight. Take Daly out Jaakkola out of Garner’s team and we’d have been even more f**ked under him than we already were. It may not work out under s Tisdale, but that doesn’t give Garner’s sacking less justification. It just means we’ve hired two sh** managers instead of just one. tis bought both of those injuries on himself. You don’t play the best goalie in the league in the trophy against orient! Nor do you keep your best / second striker on the pitch when you are 4 up at Darlington PT could have avoided both of those injuries
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 10:36:34 GMT
It all feels like when Alan Gow got injured though, one decent player in the squad and we were relying on him to keep us up until he got injured. Nicholson and Daly have been unreliable from day one, they’re allowed to be injured, of course, but it’s classic relegation stuff when your best players have spent a fair chunk of the season unavailable to us. It’s last chance saloon time for Wael now. I’m not sure how the salary cap stuff works I must admit and how much wriggle room he has to make changes. We need a Higgsy-esque squad transfusion right now. Garner and golden bollocks Widdrington have f**ked it right up, between them. What a ridiculous post! So if I understand you the last chance saloon usually means that he’s close to being sacked. How would that work? At the moment it’s Wael who’s keeping this club afloat. Without him we’d all be posting about forming an AFC Bristol Rovers FC club and hoping we do it quickly enough to be in the National League next season, and not a disappointing loss to Oxford in League 1. Nothing like the 13/14 season. We never had the quality of Oztumer, Daly, Hanlan nor Nicholson then to call on. Once Ozzy has fully recovered from CV and once the others are fit we’ll be fine. But we do need to sign a striker this month just like we did last window. But I get your frustration and I hope Tis will bring a cooler head to the situation we’re in than most on here, I’m sure he will. And again, only imo, it would be stupid to even think about changing managers. It would make us a total laughing stock amongst all football followers as well as giving the panic signs to everyone, not least the players and any team we play. UTG! Strewth- last chance saloon in terms of keeping us up. Surely that’s clear?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 10:38:54 GMT
Also what doesn’t appear to be acknowledged is that Garner had Jaakkola and Daly available to him far more than Tisdale has, those are two very significant injuries especially when you consider that one of them literally halved our scoring striker tally overnight. Take Daly out Jaakkola out of Garner’s team and we’d have been even more f**ked under him than we already were. It may not work out under s Tisdale, but that doesn’t give Garner’s sacking less justification. It just means we’ve hired two sh** managers instead of just one. tis bought both of those injuries on himself. You don’t play the best goalie in the league in the trophy against orient! Nor do you keep your best / second striker on the pitch when you are 4 up at Darlington PT could have avoided both of those injuries Fair points, but it could be argued that Garner brought Daly to the club in the first place and whilst showing promise the lad has proved to be made of glass. Don’t forget he was injured for a good portion of last season too. So not only did he only have three recognised strikers one of them has been consistently injured since day one. Tisdale’s win ratio has paid the price for that particular folly.
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Post by clayts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 10:41:41 GMT
Does anyone think that any manager in the world wouldn’t want more striker?
Anyone really think that TW came to garner and said “I’ve got a cracking 6ft 20 goal a season league one striker” and BG said no?!
If we went in light on strikers it’s the clubs fault.
When Garner came in how many actual strikers did we have? JCH and Nicholas just off him.
The club doesn’t like buying strikers because they are expensive!
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Post by clayts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 10:42:13 GMT
Does anyone think that any manager in the world wouldn’t want more striker? Anyone really think that TW came to garner and said “I’ve got a cracking 6ft 20 goal a season league one striker” and BG said no?! If we went in light on strikers it’s the clubs fault. When Garner came in how many actual strikers did we have? JCH and Nicholas just off him. The club doesn’t like buying strikers because they are expensive! If we don’t get a striker in this window we know what the problem is! The board!!
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Post by bridgwatergas on Jan 24, 2021 10:43:39 GMT
Also what doesn’t appear to be acknowledged is that Garner had Jaakkola and Daly available to him far more than Tisdale has, those are two very significant injuries especially when you consider that one of them literally halved our scoring striker tally overnight. Take Daly out Jaakkola out of Garner’s team and we’d have been even more f**ked under him than we already were. It may not work out under s Tisdale, but that doesn’t give Garner’s sacking less justification. It just means we’ve hired two sh** managers instead of just one. tis bought both of those injuries on himself. You don’t play the best goalie in the league in the trophy against orient! Nor do you keep your best / second striker on the pitch when you are 4 up at Darlington PT could have avoided both of those injuries Spot on BG wouldnt have played AJ in the pointless cup and Daly was just returning from injury so after 50/60 minutes when the game was won surely resting him like he says he does with Ayunga.
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