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Post by kruger on Apr 20, 2021 9:49:20 GMT
some of our fans are fickle, he will be the best thing since sliced bread if he keeps us up, he gets credit from me when we go down or if the unthinkable happens and he keeps us up, let's be honest we are not staying up we are the worst team in this league What are you giving him credit for if we go down? I have said it a thousand times before and to be honest I'm bored bloody stiff of saying now, it's not his team it Garners, if it was Bartons team my views would be different but its not.I believe in giving the bloke a chance with his own team, if he fails then then fair enough but at least give him a chance to see what he can do.
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Post by goodnightirene1883 on Apr 20, 2021 9:56:01 GMT
I know Barton has mentioned his time at Rangers... I think it was the podcast below that goes into what he didn't particularly think was great during his time at Rangers. Might be worth a listen for anyone interesting open.spotify.com/episode/5mFKoHDn5hO6GSCxXiM8aMUTG
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Post by gashead1981 on Apr 20, 2021 9:57:13 GMT
Garner should have been given the opportunity. What the board should have done was either sacked him at the end of last season after 1 win 18 or whatever it was or kept him until December when we had a much better idea of where we were at this season. Carlts could be right, he could have kept us up, but also he could have capitulated and given his record in 30 odd games, the poor style of play he was promoting, I can understand him getting the sack. What was a mistake was appointing Tisdale and then not strengthening in January. Our season was salvageable, but we were down the moment that window closed. Gross mismanagement of resources right there. Sorry, this is what I meant by never given the opportunity. We saw how bad he was last season so he should never have been allowed to build his own squad. I'm of the same opinion about Barton. We're seeing someone fail. That's not a reason to start giving them whatever they demand. But its not the same is it... Garner took over a team that was top six and within 8 months made us relegation fodder stripping out the very heart and core of the team as well as having 2 windows in which to sign players that fitted his philosophy. Barton has come in with the scraps of what Garner left behind and the chaos that Tisdale caused and made us look a better footballing side than what what we have had since DC had left with a squad of players that just arent L1 standard, whichever way you cut it. Barton's CV as a player and also as a manager is good enough in terms of philosophy and experience for where we are/will be currently. His back room team are also seasoned pros who have played across the football pyramid. We have gone from having a couple of academy PE teachers to having pro's in charge and its showing.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:02:56 GMT
What are you giving him credit for if we go down? I have said it a thousand times before and to be honest I'm bored bloody stiff of saying now, it's not his team it Garners, if it was Bartons team my views would be different but its not.I believe in giving the bloke a chance with his own team, if he fails then then fair enough but at least give him a chance to see what he can do. Ok thanks for clearing that up. So because it's not his team if we stay up Barton deserves zero credit.
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Post by kruger on Apr 20, 2021 10:16:31 GMT
I have said it a thousand times before and to be honest I'm bored bloody stiff of saying now, it's not his team it Garners, if it was Bartons team my views would be different but its not.I believe in giving the bloke a chance with his own team, if he fails then then fair enough but at least give him a chance to see what he can do. Ok thanks for clearing that up. So because it's not his team if we stay up Barton deserves zero credit. tell you what, I am going to go round my area and get a load of kids together to make a team up, I will then send them to you and I want you to beat Bradley Stoke kids team, if you don't win then you are 100% to blame
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:19:44 GMT
Ok thanks for clearing that up. So because it's not his team if we stay up Barton deserves zero credit. tell you what, I am going to go round my area and get a load of kids together to make a team up, I will then send them to you and I want you to beat Bradley Stoke kids team, if you don't win then you are 100% to blame And what if I win?
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Post by kruger on Apr 20, 2021 10:21:29 GMT
tell you what, I am going to go round my area and get a load of kids together to make a team up, I will then send them to you and I want you to beat Bradley Stoke kids team, if you don't win then you are 100% to blame And what if I win? do you know what, your worse than my wife.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 20, 2021 10:22:31 GMT
What are you giving him credit for if we go down? I have said it a thousand times before and to be honest I'm bored bloody stiff of saying now, it's not his team it Garners, if it was Bartons team my views would be different but its not.I believe in giving the bloke a chance with his own team, if he fails then then fair enough but at least give him a chance to see what he can do. To make my opinion perfectly clear. This whole "it's not his team" thing is total and utter BS. I can perfectly appreciate that we recruited an unbalanced squad with a chronic lack of goalscoring threats. That is understood, and so Barton has not had the tools available that he would have liked. However, that is not a free pass to accept defeat after defeat and ultimately relegation. Garner and TW recruited these players, Garner was performing below expectations and so was sacked. Tisdale worked with the same players, failed to address the deficiencies in the squad in January and ultimately failed. Sacked. Barton comes in, and same as before he is working with the SAME SQUAD as the others. Are there mitigating circumstances? Yes, he has had injuries to key players, and some decisions have gone against us. But yet again, he is not deserving of a free pass!! Same squad as the others, same results, so he has to accept a portion of the responsibility. I can't believe that some people don't accept this. It's not a black and white situation. As with all things in life, it's somewhere in between. He's not fully responsible, and he's been dealt a sh** hand. But that does not mean to say that he couldn't have done much better, and that he couldn't have kept us up.
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Post by kruger on Apr 20, 2021 10:24:45 GMT
I have said it a thousand times before and to be honest I'm bored bloody stiff of saying now, it's not his team it Garners, if it was Bartons team my views would be different but its not.I believe in giving the bloke a chance with his own team, if he fails then then fair enough but at least give him a chance to see what he can do. To make my opinion perfectly clear. This whole "it's not his team" thing is total and utter BS. I can perfectly appreciate that we recruited an unbalanced squad with a chronic lack of goalscoring threats. That is understood, and so Barton has not had the tools available that he would have liked. However, that is not a free pass to accept defeat after defeat and ultimately relegation. Garner and TW recruited these players, Garner was performing below expectations and so was sacked. Tisdale worked with the same players, failed to address the deficiencies in the squad in January and ultimately failed. Sacked. Barton comes in, and same as before he is working with the SAME SQUAD as the others. Are there mitigating circumstances? Yes, he has had injuries to key players, and some decisions have gone against us. But yet again, he is not deserving of a free pass!! Same squad as the others, same results, so he has to accept a portion of the responsibility. I can't believe that some people don't accept this. It's not a black and white situation. As with all things in life, it's somewhere in between. He's not fully responsible, and he's been dealt a sh** hand. But that does not mean to say that he couldn't have done much better, and that he couldn't have kept us up. So do you think we should give him a chance to see what he can do with his own team?
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Post by Jomo on Apr 20, 2021 10:25:59 GMT
To make my opinion perfectly clear. This whole "it's not his team" thing is total and utter BS. I can perfectly appreciate that we recruited an unbalanced squad with a chronic lack of goalscoring threats. That is understood, and so Barton has not had the tools available that he would have liked. However, that is not a free pass to accept defeat after defeat and ultimately relegation. Garner and TW recruited these players, Garner was performing below expectations and so was sacked. Tisdale worked with the same players, failed to address the deficiencies in the squad in January and ultimately failed. Sacked. Barton comes in, and same as before he is working with the SAME SQUAD as the others. Are there mitigating circumstances? Yes, he has had injuries to key players, and some decisions have gone against us. But yet again, he is not deserving of a free pass!! Same squad as the others, same results, so he has to accept a portion of the responsibility. I can't believe that some people don't accept this. It's not a black and white situation. As with all things in life, it's somewhere in between. He's not fully responsible, and he's been dealt a sh** hand. But that does not mean to say that he couldn't have done much better, and that he couldn't have kept us up. So do you think we should give him a chance to see what he can do with his own team? Yes. Just because I think he's done an inadequate job doesn't mean I'm advocating sacking him. There's always more nuance than that.
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:26:05 GMT
do you know what, your worse than my wife. Maybe your wife just wants you to answer the question she asked. Why don't you want to tell me if you would have given Barton credit if he'd picked up a couple of good wins to keep us up?
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Post by kruger on Apr 20, 2021 10:33:35 GMT
do you know what, your worse than my wife. Maybe your wife just wants you to answer the question she asked. Why don't you want to tell me if you would have given Barton credit if he'd picked up a couple of good wins to keep us up? I wasn't ignoring the question I missed it because I am wound up, I need to take a chill pill, I would give him lots of credit yes of course. He is fighting a losing battle though isn't he
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Post by LJG on Apr 20, 2021 10:39:15 GMT
Maybe your wife just wants you to answer the question she asked. Why don't you want to tell me if you would have given Barton credit if he'd picked up a couple of good wins to keep us up? I wasn't ignoring the question I missed it because I am wound up, I need to take a chill pill, I would give him lots of credit yes of course. He is fighting a losing battle though isn't he My opinion is if you are going to credit people with success they need to take part of the responsibility for failings. I agree it's a difficult job to come into a sinking team and turn it around but not an impossible one and one which can be done by retaining professionalism and not trying to burn the club you've joined to the ground in the press every week. I also think the job could be easier if with 8 games (a possible 24 points) you don't start talking about what you're going to do next season after you've been relegated.
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Post by Congas on Apr 20, 2021 10:40:31 GMT
<Joey comes out fighting>
Doesn't he always?
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Post by kruger on Apr 20, 2021 10:46:09 GMT
I wasn't ignoring the question I missed it because I am wound up, I need to take a chill pill, I would give him lots of credit yes of course. He is fighting a losing battle though isn't he My opinion is if you are going to credit people with success they need to take part of the responsibility for failings. I agree it's a difficult job to come into a sinking team and turn it around but not an impossible one and one which can be done by retaining professionalism and not trying to burn the club you've joined to the ground in the press every week. I also think the job could be easier if with 8 games (a possible 24 points) you don't start talking about what you're going to do next season after you've been relegated. fair enough, your entitled to you opinion.
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Post by percy on Apr 20, 2021 11:14:20 GMT
Lol, not sure why I just read this whole thread. Anyway, what we cant do is start again with a whole new team every summer. My opinion. JB shares the blame with everyone else, but sacking him would be a joke. Give him a chance to rebuild (not destroy and start again) and see what he can do in League 2. Hopefully he does well enough to get to at least Christmas without us all calling for his sacking. UTG
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 20, 2021 11:21:43 GMT
Blimey, most of the positive stuff around JB is all about what he says and calling it as it is, rather than the results. Most on here could have called that out, it’s not that hard. It’s a strange one because performances have been better but results have deteriorated. In the end what JB says is just deflection from our position. He knows what he says will probably go down well with supporters. I’d prefer to see him winning games and if he can’t say anything positive about us then best to keep quiet until the season's end when perhaps he can start to do something about changing what needs changing. The British legal system permitting of course. UTG! Wareham, you have just said "most on here could have called that out", so I guess you would agree with JB then? If we were winning every week we wouldn't be having these conversations now, we aren't winning so it is what it is, JB is saying something whether people like to hear it or not for what they are. We truly aren't good enough and to lose as many as we have you do have to look at the players too, a good set of players would pick up wins no matter what formation or 11 is selected. We lose every game because we have defenders who make far too many mistakes and strikers who do not score goals. Singup, I didn't say he was wrong. I just feel that some of these conversations should be taking place within the club and not playing out in the Bristol Evening Post or whatever it is now. No we’re not good enough and the table doesn’t lie but at the moment it seems a continual lambast from JB about everything. He probably is right about many things I just feel that the way he’s going about it seems wrong and seems likely not to work. Obviously I don’t know all the ins and outs, and I suspect nobody does, but being in the position we were in it seems such a negative approach to survival. And I am not calling for his sacking, we need to stop that culture and support him for next season. As I’ve said, given time he should put together a winning team and will get the players he wants. Bury, Swindon, Plymouth and Coventry all went down and came back up straightaway. No reason why, with the right manager and set up, we can’t do it as well. But our history in League 2 isn’t good. But I do feel repeating what he says over and over smacks of deflecting attention from his poor record as manager. I can’t be a**** to look it up now but istr lots on here saying appoint him and we’ll avoid relegation. Performances have improved but results haven’t. I just wish he’d stop moaning, get on with improving us and then when he has the chance put his plans into action. As with many situations it’s not always about what you say and what you do, it’s also about how you do it, how you approach something and the manner of how you say something. I think JB may well be right in some aspects but his approach is particular to JB. But is suspect those who appointed him knew that! 😉 UTG!
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Post by Jomo on Apr 20, 2021 11:44:23 GMT
Lol, not sure why I just read this whole thread. Anyway, what we cant do is start again with a whole new team every summer. My opinion. JB shares the blame with everyone else, but sacking him would be a joke. Give him a chance to rebuild (not destroy and start again) and see what he can do in League 2. Hopefully he does well enough to get to at least Christmas without us all calling for his sacking. UTG Exactly this. Martyn Starnes in an interview after Garner left, specifically stating that the club does not want to allow new managers to wipe the slate clean and start again with new coaches, new players, etc etc. Fair enough if we plan to put some new procedures and infrastructure in place behind the scenes, but a total overhaul would be an embarrassment to the club, considering it would be the polar opposite of what they were intending only a few months earlier.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Apr 20, 2021 12:03:00 GMT
So would you be happy if JB had said "no comment" when Sam Frost asked him to rate his own performance? If we are a basket case (which doesn't really come as a surprise when players had to clear fox poo in the past before they could train) then it's about time a manager stood up and told us the truth. If, and I know it's a big if, JB gets this right we could benefit for years to come. We’ve got even worse since he arrived. I actually do want him to try and lead us to promotion next season but I'm not sure what all these outbursts are achieving. It's what happens when you have a team used to losing. 2 managers later they don't suddenly get better. Most other teams in the same position strengthen in January. What the F were we doing?
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Post by stevethepirate on Apr 20, 2021 12:15:47 GMT
Although I am not a fan of Barton, I won't judge him on the basis of this train wreck of a season. Irrespective of what division we end up in I think we should wait and see how the team plays after he has had a transfer window and a pre season to create "his" squad. Add in the factor of the Gasheads being back in the ground and we will have a better idea of what is going on.
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