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Post by Topper Gas on May 7, 2021 18:06:22 GMT
Yes there were 2 windows and 2 managers but if those managers decided they didn’t want to then why is it Starnes fault? It’s the managers for not addressing it ? Starnes probably told them his thinking but unless he then dictates (which then removes the autonomy and decisions from the managers which is interfering), he can’t do anything? You could argue they brought the wrong managers in , but that’s a different debate? Being CEO means you recruit people in that you delegate your accountabilities to as you can’t do everything. It’s on the CEO and board to ensure you recruit the right people with the right skills and capabilities... it’s there where you could probably challenge Starnes, but look at the CV of Tisdale - he should have done much better and whilst inexperienced, BG had a strong coaching pedigree and significant number of advocates within the professional football world. My potential criticism of Starnes could be a) not sacking BG last season (but if he did I felt it would have been unfair); b) sacking BG when he did / prematurely, c) recruiting PT (but his CV and experience would have pointed to him being a strong candidate) and d) sacking PT to early/prematurely. When it comes to the sackings we all have views and no one really knows exactly what drove those decisions and timings. In businesses where I have worked under a CEO they absolutely would go over an incompetent managers head if necessary. But maybe I have worked under competent CEOs! But football isn't any business not many managers would stand for a CEO signing players without his authority. Even if Starnes signed them the manager could still decide not to play them.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 7, 2021 18:14:23 GMT
In businesses where I have worked under a CEO they absolutely would go over an incompetent managers head if necessary. But maybe I have worked under competent CEOs! But football isn't any business not many managers would stand for a CEO signing players without his authority. Even if Starnes signed them the manager could still decide not to play them. And how many CEOs would stand for a manager saying they didnt want more than 3 completely untried strikers? I mean no disrespect to you in particular Topper but I'm sick of people having to do mental gymnastics to go out of their way to avoid anyone having to take any responsibility. I'm really not out to crucify Starnes but him and Widders are exactly the problem we have had all season at Rovers. Both weak and totally unable to take any criticism or responsibility and half our fans want to bend over and take it. If we accept mediocrity from the DOF and CEO then is it any wonder we got it on the pitch. The more I hear sh**e like this powder puff, whitewash of an interview the more angry I am that people (myself included) have been getting on some of the young players backs. They deserved better than the "leadership" they have had this season.
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Post by gasandelectricity on May 7, 2021 18:27:58 GMT
If the managers didn’t want to sign players they should have been made to sign players or moved on. If they literally didn’t want anyone their judgement should have been called into question. Perhaps they even needed to be sacked at that point. There’s a huge difference between forcing players on a manager and ‘encouraging’ them to sign someone in a given position. It doesn’t even have to be done passive aggressively. Just by escalating increased concern if it’s not felt the squad was fit for a league campaign. Most managers would jump at being told to sign a new striker. Tisdale and Garner were allergic to it. Wasn't Tisdale sacked because he failed to improve the squad by signing a striker in January? two weeks after the window closed. Too reactionary. January was like watching a car crash in slow motion. If the supporters can see it why can’t a professional football club CEO with 15 years of experience not see it? Is he on the beach? Scratch that it isn’t even an excuse under Covid what the hell is he doing?
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Post by Topper Gas on May 7, 2021 18:49:52 GMT
But football isn't any business not many managers would stand for a CEO signing players without his authority. Even if Starnes signed them the manager could still decide not to play them. And how many CEOs would stand for a manager saying they didnt want more than 3 completely untried strikers? I mean no disrespect to you in particular Topper but I'm sick of people having to do mental gymnastics to go out of their way to avoid anyone having to take any responsibility. I'm really not out to crucify Starnes but him and Widders are exactly the problem we have had all season at Rovers. Both weak and totally unable to take any criticism or responsibility and half our fans want to bend over and take it. If we accept mediocrity from the DOF and CEO then is it any wonder we got it on the pitch. The more I hear sh**e like this powder puff, whitewash of an interview the more angry I am that people (myself included) have been getting on some of the young players backs. They deserved better than the "leadership" they have had this season. That's because Gaschat mods never point the finger at the real cause of the problem, Wael, he chose to employ two "yes" men in Starnes and Widdrington and so they can hardly be blamed for saying "yes" to anything the manager Wael appointed proposed which included only signing 3 strikers. Hamer seems to have stood up to Wael and that cost him his job, Starnes, so far, seems to be surviving by simply saying "yes" to anything Wael proposes.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 7, 2021 18:54:00 GMT
As a club we appear rudderless.Bottom and already relegated.Haven't even scored for so long and not even a hint of any ground improvements. Not really sure if the training ground is being improved ,made bigger ,revamped or re built but the 'Official' announcements amount to very little in reality.JB at least shows some vigour but after 65 years following my team,I feel distanced and almost dismayed at the state we are in currently. Should we start winning next season no doubt I will begin to feel the love again but when I see my local village team having a new stand going up-not a tent- and paid for by grants,sponsors and the council -I despair. That's just nonsense, there's been enough updates on the OS to suggest what's being built but how can you "revamp" a patch of farm land anyway?
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Post by Topper Gas on May 7, 2021 18:56:09 GMT
Wasn't Tisdale sacked because he failed to improve the squad by signing a striker in January? two weeks after the window closed. Too reactionary. January was like watching a car crash in slow motion. If the supporters can see it why can’t a professional football club CEO with 15 years of experience not see it? Is he on the beach? Scratch that it isn’t even an excuse under Covid what the hell is he doing? Probably on the phone daily to Tisdale asking him when he's going to sign a striker? If Tisdale had the money, which seems the case, surely only he can take the blame for not signing one.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 7, 2021 19:01:57 GMT
And how many CEOs would stand for a manager saying they didnt want more than 3 completely untried strikers? I mean no disrespect to you in particular Topper but I'm sick of people having to do mental gymnastics to go out of their way to avoid anyone having to take any responsibility. I'm really not out to crucify Starnes but him and Widders are exactly the problem we have had all season at Rovers. Both weak and totally unable to take any criticism or responsibility and half our fans want to bend over and take it. If we accept mediocrity from the DOF and CEO then is it any wonder we got it on the pitch. The more I hear sh**e like this powder puff, whitewash of an interview the more angry I am that people (myself included) have been getting on some of the young players backs. They deserved better than the "leadership" they have had this season. That's because Gaschat mods never point the finger at the real cause of the problem, Wael, he chose to employ two "yes" men in Starnes and Widdrington and so they can hardly be blamed for saying "yes" to anything the manager Wael appointed proposed which included only signing 3 strikers. Hamer seems to have stood up to Wael and that cost him his job, Starnes, so far, seems to be surviving by simply saying "yes" to anything Wael proposes. I completely agree. Wael is definitely to blame for hiring 2 inept people in such important positions. Hamer wasnt fired for standing up to Wael.
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Post by dinsdale on May 7, 2021 20:58:09 GMT
I agree with Hugo. I would go as far as to say that if Starnes and Widdrington are still in a job next season then There is an almost criminal neglect of this club going on
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 7, 2021 21:09:24 GMT
I agree with Hugo. I would go as far as to say that if Starnes and Widdrington are still in a job next season then There is an almost criminal neglect of this club going on Bloody hell Dins, I was only thinking about you the other day. Good to see you back
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2021 22:26:51 GMT
I agree with Hugo. I would go as far as to say that if Starnes and Widdrington are still in a job next season then There is an almost criminal neglect of this club going on Bloody hell Dins, I was only thinking about you the other day. Good to see you back Crap w**k bank you got. X
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Post by rememberhalifax on May 8, 2021 9:02:22 GMT
It’s not just JCH though, is it? Seems to be a recurring theme, having lost a Welsh international defender for free, a player that scored 68 goals in 134 games for £300k and Billy Bodin for £400k. What "lessons have been learnt" and how do we plan on improving things going forward? What structural changes in the background have been made to improve things and how will we improve the recruitment process in the future? Sorry pirate missed replying to this. Yes we have lost out re transfers recently but of those you listed again with the exception of Bodin what could we have done? Taylor - £300k. We could have lost him for free and he would only sign the new contract with the release clause in. He held all the cards and in my opinion the only way we could have a avoided that is if we had offered him (and he agreed to sign) a long term contract earlier in the preceding season. Remember that would have been offering him a long term contract after only being with us for a season in which it took him a few months to start scoring in his first season, we’d suffered significant financial detriment due to relegation and over a number of years signing journeyman players on long term contracts that we then end up paying off or suffering Kyle Bennett like and DC as well as fans demanding that we don’t sign players on long term contracts. Taylor and his agent held all the cards and we suffered (but did get a half season of goals and £300K) Lockyer - we offered him contract extensions over a long period of time and he chose to run his contract down and to leave on a free. This was because he wanted to move on (and up) and he knew being a free transfer would have more and better offers (financially too) Bodin we had slightly more control over but he to wanted to leave when Preston came in so he could test himself at the higher level as well as he was on the fringes of selection for Wales so a Championship side would enhance his opportunity for that. Once a players head has gone and they want to go somewhere else it’s really hard to keep them. Players have all the power. The transfer fee we got was low but I guess that was influenced by his injury record Bluestick is right , little we could do about one of the most 'underhand' deals in history, Tom's case was orchestrated by him to ensure a good move, and 400k for a player who hardly ever plays aint bad!
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Post by carlts2020 on May 8, 2021 9:48:05 GMT
I’m fed up with reading nonsense from blame avoiding Starnes, Widdrington and Barton.
Yesterday presser has Barton still talking about pre-season yet in the early days of the season we defended with our lives in the last 15 minutes of the game to win at Lincoln and Draw at Sunderland...i don’t remember us having fitness issues!
We have 15 players who have played over 25 games this season for the club, 10 that have played over 30 games and 6 that have played over 40 games.
Claiming he needs to “review the players” to see who stays and goes next season but only had the players back in training on Thursday after a Saturday game! Claiming they are tired is nonsense...get them in for recovery, talk tactics, work on defending set pieces etc.
Utter bollocks and after Starnes scripted sh** yesterday it’s all becoming too much
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Post by Jomo on May 8, 2021 10:18:23 GMT
I’m fed up with reading nonsense from blame avoiding Starnes, Widdrington and Barton. Yesterday presser has Barton still talking about pre-season yet in the early days of the season we defended with our lives in the last 15 minutes of the game to win at Lincoln and Draw at Sunderland...i don’t remember us having fitness issues! We have 15 players who have played over 25 games this season for the club, 10 that have played over 30 games and 6 that have played over 40 games. Claiming he needs to “review the players” to see who stays and goes next season but only had the players back in training on Thursday after a Saturday game! Claiming they are tired is nonsense...get them in for recovery, talk tactics, work on defending set pieces etc. Utter bollocks and after Starnes scripted sh** yesterday it’s all becoming too much I don't agree with your pro Garner agenda, but I can't disagree with this post. I'm no sports scientist but I'm tempted to call BS that pre season could still have a severely damaging effect on the team even at the end of the season. Fully prepared to be corrected on that though by people more knowledgeable than me. I do think that only bringing the players back in for training on the Thursday, considering we've got the summer break after Saturday, is highly questionable. What have the players done to deserve a 4 day break after the last game!?
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Post by playtowin on May 8, 2021 10:31:50 GMT
Strong words Lionheart.... as you’ll have seen from my comment earlier I’m probably more sympathetic to him and whilst there are definitely learnings for all at the club, I struggle to see what exactly he’s done wrong (unless you are of the opinion that despite recruiting a manager and giving them accountability for the football side of things, that it is acceptable for a non football person CEO to interfere with the squad etc?) - recruitment, picking the team, how far does it go? Not disputing your opinion as it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it - just interested to understand the basis of what Starnes has done / not done to warrant such a strong view and what you / others believe he should have done? He admitted we needed more than 3 strikers and had 2 windows and 2 managers to address that and still failed. He is the CEO. The lack of responsibility and accountability at the very top of our club is an utter disgrace. Non footballing CEO who likes to remind us he has been in charge of professional football clubs for 15 years. I have more faith in my boys U13s manager. The bloke is either deluded, incompetent or both. The CEO talks to the other clubs chairman about a player when a player has been identified by first the scouts and then the manager. The CEO is not supposed to be a scout or choose the squad. Thats why they employ scouts and managers. So did the CEO make good offers (within the clubs and EFLs constraints ) for the players asked for ? If the CEO just off his own back goes out and signs players he has undermined the entire scouting and first team management . In which case there would be grounds for either the affected people to leave and claim against the club or for the CEO to be dismissed. If the CEO believes at the start of the season that the manager and or scouts have done a poor job of creating a squad to achieve the clubs realistic aims for that year. The CEO should sack them at that point and allow a new person with a better squad vision to take over. So Starnes mistake in my view based on whats been said this season is that Garner and possibly Widdrington should have been sacked in August. His failure to do that was his failure this season. After that it was all catchup and never likely to succeed . Like glueing on a ferrari wing mirror to a clapped out nissan micra .
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 10:36:13 GMT
I’m fed up with reading nonsense from blame avoiding Starnes, Widdrington and Barton. Yesterday presser has Barton still talking about pre-season yet in the early days of the season we defended with our lives in the last 15 minutes of the game to win at Lincoln and Draw at Sunderland...i don’t remember us having fitness issues! We have 15 players who have played over 25 games this season for the club, 10 that have played over 30 games and 6 that have played over 40 games. Claiming he needs to “review the players” to see who stays and goes next season but only had the players back in training on Thursday after a Saturday game! Claiming they are tired is nonsense...get them in for recovery, talk tactics, work on defending set pieces etc. Utter bollocks and after Starnes scripted sh** yesterday it’s all becoming too much I don't agree with your pro Garner agenda, but I can't disagree with this post. I'm no sports scientist but I'm tempted to call BS that pre season could still have a severely damaging effect on the team even at the end of the season. Fully prepared to be corrected on that though by people more knowledgeable than me. I do think that only bringing the players back in for training on the Thursday, considering we've got the summer break after Saturday, is highly questionable. What have the players done to deserve a 4 day break after the last game!? I suspect these 4 day breaks has something to do with JB living in Liverpool. Remember similar breaks being taken by McGhee when the drive from Brighton was getting a bit much.
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Post by carlts2020 on May 8, 2021 10:37:39 GMT
I’m fed up with reading nonsense from blame avoiding Starnes, Widdrington and Barton. Yesterday presser has Barton still talking about pre-season yet in the early days of the season we defended with our lives in the last 15 minutes of the game to win at Lincoln and Draw at Sunderland...i don’t remember us having fitness issues! We have 15 players who have played over 25 games this season for the club, 10 that have played over 30 games and 6 that have played over 40 games. Claiming he needs to “review the players” to see who stays and goes next season but only had the players back in training on Thursday after a Saturday game! Claiming they are tired is nonsense...get them in for recovery, talk tactics, work on defending set pieces etc. Utter bollocks and after Starnes scripted sh** yesterday it’s all becoming too much I don't agree with your pro Garner agenda, but I can't disagree with this post. I'm no sports scientist but I'm tempted to call BS that pre season could still have a severely damaging effect on the team even at the end of the season. Fully prepared to be corrected on that though by people more knowledgeable than me. I do think that only bringing the players back in for training on the Thursday, considering we've got the summer break after Saturday, is highly questionable. What have the players done to deserve a 4 day break after the last game!? When you compare the stats to our rivals the number of games of players played and injuries etc is not bad at all. The 4 days off is ridiculous considering we have a squad to assess. Finally, in blaming pre season and conditioning he is throwing 4 or 5 staff members (physio, fitness coach, nutritionist etc) who are probably on £35k or so a year under the bus. They have no way of defending the allegations or proving him wrong as they would be sacked immediately. It’s cowardly and out of order.
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Post by Jomo on May 8, 2021 10:50:00 GMT
I don't agree with your pro Garner agenda, but I can't disagree with this post. I'm no sports scientist but I'm tempted to call BS that pre season could still have a severely damaging effect on the team even at the end of the season. Fully prepared to be corrected on that though by people more knowledgeable than me. I do think that only bringing the players back in for training on the Thursday, considering we've got the summer break after Saturday, is highly questionable. What have the players done to deserve a 4 day break after the last game!? I suspect these 4 day breaks has something to do with JB living in Liverpool. Remember similar breaks being taken by McGhee when the drive from Brighton was getting a bit much. You're probably right, but that doesn't make the 4 day break acceptable. I work away from home a lot and I can't just willy nilly neglect my responsibilities for a few days in order to see my family. You take a job knowing full well what the sacrifices are, and the time for extended breaks is during the summer, or if that isn't enough then perhaps he should evaluate whether this job is for him. No shame in that in my view, although considering the pelters that many gave Coughlan when he chose to move closer to home, I guess many others wouldn't see it that way.
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Post by trevorgas on May 8, 2021 11:24:42 GMT
I suspect these 4 day breaks has something to do with JB living in Liverpool. Remember similar breaks being taken by McGhee when the drive from Brighton was getting a bit much. You're probably right, but that doesn't make the 4 day break acceptable. I work away from home a lot and I can't just willy nilly neglect my responsibilities for a few days in order to see my family. You take a job knowing full well what the sacrifices are, and the time for extended breaks is during the summer, or if that isn't enough then perhaps he should evaluate whether this job is for him. No shame in that in my view, although considering the pelters that many gave Coughlan when he chose to move closer to home, I guess many others wouldn't see it that way. Tbh I don't see this is important as hopefully most of this group are finished at our club hopefully. I think JB is right extra training is an irrelevance at this stage as they could train for a month and I still can't see any goals or barely adequate defending. I'm with JB the sooner we can move on the better and ditching 60% of this lot next week is the priority.
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Post by dragonfly on May 8, 2021 11:31:56 GMT
Where do people get the notion that Starnes should have signed More strikers? He should have advised Garner that we were underweight in strikers and that Garner should address it.
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Post by carlts2020 on May 8, 2021 12:25:01 GMT
Where do people get the notion that Starnes should have signed More strikers? He should have advised Garner that we were underweight in strikers and that Garner should address it. Or he should have signed the players requested by Garner and Tisdale. The Bristol Post has named 5 players recently that Garner and Tisdale put forward to sign and the club didn’t pull it off. Surely that was Starnes main job?? Get the deals done!
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