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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 15, 2021 8:26:58 GMT
Yeah. I think he is doing all the right things in all the wrong ways. We are such a sh** show I dont think the order things get changed matters.
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Post by stevek192 on May 15, 2021 8:41:36 GMT
The only reason we ended up where we were was because two of the teams involved in the relegation fight hit promotion form with three wins on the trot (Wimbledon and Wigan) and each scored a lot of goals in the process. Nobody would have predicted that any of the bottom six at the time were capable of winning three games on the trot or scoring so many goals. The stupid penalty at Northampton was the key point when you look back ,had we won that day I think we could have survived but that was the final nail in the coffin together with the loss of Nicholson. I am not including the fact that Garner and Tisdale left us totally inadequate up front. The January transfer market was totally wasted b y not signing any attacking players at all. We needed an attacking midfielder and two strikers minimum and ended up with a goalkeeper and another full back who were no better than we already had.
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Post by gregsy on May 15, 2021 8:53:08 GMT
The only reason we ended up where we were was because two of the teams involved in the relegation fight hit promotion form with three wins on the trot Thats not the reason we got relegated at all though is it?
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Post by warehamgas on May 15, 2021 8:56:53 GMT
Steve, we had 38 points and were bottom. The reason we went down was we were crap for most of the season. Nothing to do with others. UTG!
edit: you’re correct about that penalty at Northampton. It was the final nail and we never recovered but that shouldn’t hide anything else. We were just crap.
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Post by Fat Albert on May 15, 2021 9:04:18 GMT
He reminds me of a Warnock type character- If it goes well here the fans will love him (because ultimately all fans love success) and opposing fans, managers, refs etc will continue to dislike him based on the things he says and his history.
Obviously the major difference is Warnock has been there and done it repeatedly and no one can say he is a bad manager. For JB that is yet to be seen.
From our point of view, I think he may attract players slightly better than we otherwise might have done purely based on his level as a player and to some extent his celebrity.
Overall I see it going one of 2 ways - He absolutely smashes it and then leaves for a better opportunity or it’s a disaster and he leaves saying it want his fault. That’s my opinion based on what I’ve seen so far.
Either way I don’t see there being much middle ground.
UTG
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Post by stevek192 on May 15, 2021 9:06:20 GMT
I am not saying that we were not crap because we were but so were the other teams down with us until two teams hit an amazing three win run and we pondered on. We were heading one way when JB took over- hade we not been then there would have been no need to sack Tisdale. It was only a miracle that we stayed out of the bottom four under Tisdale as it seemed that nobody below us was capable of getting out of it but we all knew that whatever the results two or three would. Burton and Wigan showed how it should have been done in January.
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 15, 2021 9:08:33 GMT
He reminds me of a Warnock type character- If it goes well here the fans will love him (because ultimately all fans love success) and opposing fans, managers, refs etc will continue to dislike him based on the things he says and his history. Obviously the major difference is Warnock has been there and done it repeatedly and no one can say he is a bad manager. For JB that is yet to be seen. From our point of view, I think he may attract players slightly better than we otherwise might have done purely based on his level as a player and to some extent his celebrity. Overall I see it going one of 2 ways - He absolutely smashes it and then leaves for a better opportunity or it’s a disaster and he leaves saying it want his fault. That’s my opinion based on what I’ve seen so far. Either way I don’t see there being much middle ground. UTG Spot on, what ever happens there will not be a quiet moment..
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Kipper
Reserve Team
Posts: 438
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Post by Kipper on May 15, 2021 9:15:06 GMT
I hope the Barton haters are prepared to eat Humble Pie if the club wins promotion. Probably be total silence if the man is very successful.
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Post by holmesgas1 on May 15, 2021 9:20:28 GMT
I hope the Barton haters are prepared to eat Humble Pie if the club wins promotion. Probably be total silence if the man is very successful. Here's hoping, let's just give him a chance with his own team and see what happens. No guarantees, but I believe he has a better chance than most, when compared to the level of manager we would attract currently.
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Post by stevek192 on May 15, 2021 9:20:32 GMT
There is one big thing JB has in his favour and that is IMO it is almost impossible for him not to find players better than what we have.It is often said that you need a striker with a 1 in 3 goalscoring record, well joey only needs to find one with a 1 in 10 to be better!! On a serious side I feel if he can sign good players to fill the spine of the team then I am sure some o9f our players remaining can be good enough to fill the gaps. The spine should have been the most important aim in January-Thanks Mr Tisdale.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on May 15, 2021 9:58:09 GMT
There is one big thing JB has in his favour and that is IMO it is almost impossible for him not to find players better than what we have.It is often said that you need a striker with a 1 in 3 goalscoring record, well joey only needs to find one with a 1 in 10 to be better!! On a serious side I feel if he can sign good players to fill the spine of the team then I am sure some o9f our players remaining can be good enough to fill the gaps. The spine should have been the most important aim in January-Thanks Mr Tisdale. Thats the thing isn't it. Get relegated and you ship out the bulk you don't want to keep and lose the ones you do. I'm not a 'Barton hater' but I do tend to call things as I see them and at the moment he's worsened our form and secured relegation. Them be the facts. So sure give him a chance to rebuild but so far I'm not impressed because he has achieved less than neutral effects. I seriously don't understand the love in, he's literally done nothing but be a bit of a tough talker. If that's enough to make your knees weak then good on ya I suppose.
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Post by orgasmic on May 15, 2021 10:09:51 GMT
I hope the Barton haters are prepared to eat Humble Pie if the club wins promotion. Probably be total silence if the man is very successful. Pretty sure I’ve seen every poster who has criticised JB say they hope he is a success.
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Post by pucklegas on May 15, 2021 10:16:06 GMT
I hope the Barton haters are prepared to eat Humble Pie if the club wins promotion. Probably be total silence if the man is very successful. Pieminister will be doing a "Joey humble pie" to celebrate, quite hot and with a kick to it.
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Post by dragonfly on May 15, 2021 10:28:48 GMT
The only reason we ended up where we were was because two of the teams involved in the relegation fight hit promotion form with three wins on the trot (Wimbledon and Wigan) and each scored a lot of goals in the process. Nobody would have predicted that any of the bottom six at the time were capable of winning three games on the trot or scoring so many goals. The stupid penalty at Northampton was the key point when you look back ,had we won that day I think we could have survived but that was the final nail in the coffin together with the loss of Nicholson. I am not including the fact that Garner and Tisdale left us totally inadequate up front. The January transfer market was totally wasted b y not signing any attacking players at all. We needed an attacking midfielder and two strikers minimum and ended up with a goalkeeper and another full back who were no better than we already had. We also had Widderington's wisdom claiming that there enough goals, but he did not say for what?. Perhaps he meant enough goals to get demoted.
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Post by gulfofaden on May 15, 2021 10:42:23 GMT
You don’t need to man manage people you are sacking. Maybe it was that attitude that sent us down. An eternal point of debate that there is no way of proving either way.
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Post by TAGas on May 15, 2021 10:48:30 GMT
I think with the whole Barton thing. It's just the same as every other manager. Give him the summer, let him make his signings then he's on trial to see how it goes.
For me I don't care who's in charge as long as they get the players playing for the shirt, giving 110% and getting enough points then I'm happy.
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Post by wirralgas on May 15, 2021 11:29:42 GMT
The only reason we ended up where we were was because two of the teams involved in the relegation fight hit promotion form with three wins on the trot Thats not the reason we got relegated at all though is it? Steve k is right Barton was unlucky teams around us kept winning which is why we really relegated under Tisdale it was just a lot of teams we’re worse at the time. What Steve k says makes no sense when you read it but if you think about it makes perfect sense
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Post by warehamgas on May 15, 2021 11:37:42 GMT
Top post that’s what I said people mocked me but you’ve put it in better English. Look beyond results and league table and progress is there better than having a yes man telling you everything’s ok all the way to the conference I’m a stats man and I could see easily a positive trend in performance metrics. I’ll always take into account the most important stat which is winning games and points but, no one bummed us under Barton. Tis had Accy and Garner had Fleetwood and Doncaster. Add to that the fact that at least 3 of Barton’s games was a team that knew they were relegated, contained a number of our higher quality players out injured and a f**ked off fanbase I still found that the stats remained consistent. I truely believe that with a few more components (the right players) added and a better quality pre season this will only get better. Once pre season was done this term it was pretty damn difficult to get the guys to convert to your style of play and playing phases given the fixtures so all of that will be in his favour when we start league 2. In my opinion UTG Good point about no one “bummed us” under JB. And his early performances were better. But those 6/7 matches after the Northampton draw were awful. It was almost as if that Northampton penalty did for us. How do those stats stack up? UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on May 15, 2021 11:42:59 GMT
Garner and Tisdale kept us above the relegation zone for starters. Barton's remit was to keep us up and he failed spectacularly. Judging by his comments, he main focus is self-preservation and protecting his fragile ego. The rot set in under Tisdale IMO. Under Garner we weren’t great, but the start of the season was ok, given what we know now about where the teams that we played and where they have ended up in the final classification. Tisdale had the chance to come in and make us better as a unit and add to the squad in Jan to ensure we finished mid table. The football got worse under Tisdale, the players stopped trying under Tisdale and he utterly failed us in the Jan transfer window. As a result that rot that he oversaw on his watch could not be stopped. We looked beaten, bereft and lacked interest and ideas from mid December and when the transfer window shut in January we were doomed then. It didn’t matter what JB did, the lack of fitness, the injuries the strength, depth and quality of the squad just wasn’t there. Quite frankly, Alex Ferguson wouldn’t have gotten a tune out of the squad from Feb onwards. You really don’t like Tis do you? Nearly every post gets in a dig at him when none of us know the dynamics of what was happening in the January window. UTG!
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Post by oldie on May 15, 2021 11:43:11 GMT
Thats not the reason we got relegated at all though is it? Steve k is right Barton was unlucky teams around us kept winning which is why we really relegated under Tisdale it was just a lot of teams we’re worse at the time. What Steve k says makes no sense when you read it but if you think about it makes perfect sense 😂😂😂 New long term strategy, we will be fine as long as other teams do not win. This is getting funnier by the minute
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