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Post by RD on Jun 30, 2022 7:20:09 GMT
the fact that they wanted to proceed without taking a statement from his wife does not show the cps in a good light. The statement that "She has given an account some eight months later after the incident and in the Crown’s submission it is plainly an attempt to exculpate her husband." is quite an appalling thing to admit and they should have been taken to task over it. If they had listened to her statement then made that comment then fair enough - but to assume that they knew what she had to say and so didnt bother with taking a statement - is plainly wrong. It wasted public funds in having to go to trial a second time and seems to endorse the fact that they just want to nail JB because of who he is and perhaps because of their failure with the earlier case. I don’t know if anyone watches those fly on the wall type emergency services programmes but there was one on 5Action on Tuesday night (Inside the Force 24/7) which may be of interest on this subject. I’ve never really understood the victimless prosecution part or why the CPS seem so insistent on pursuing this case. It showed the Police being called to a city centre incident where a man was attacking a woman. The people monitoring the areas cctv immediately pointed their cameras and led the police towards the incident and identified the attacker for them. He was arrested on the spot but his female partner who was still on the floor didn’t want to press charges - he was arrested and taken to the cells. The next day he’s interviewed and answers “no comment” to all the questions. The detective asks the CPS to press charges on the strength of the cctv footage - its harrowing to watch as the guy is clearly seen punching her to the head about 4 or 5 times, the final blow sending her to the floor looking unconscious. She manages to then sit up and he volleys her in the face with great force. The next bit was quite staggering. The CPS said their guidelines were not to prosecute if there is no statement from the victim and the perpetrator had not been involved in any domestic violence during the last 12 months. This chap had a long history of such convictions but nothing that the police were aware of in the preceding 12 months so they had to let him go. The detective was rightly furious, questioned why they even bothered and said he might as well hand his badge in in. To add insult to injury they even had to give him a lift home! This incident took place in June 2021 - roughly the same time as JB’s incident is alleged to have taken place. It left me scratching my head as to why the CPS were so keen to pursue the JB case with barely any evidence when it appears totally contradictory to their own guidelines that were in place at the time? We often hear the mantra that celebs, politicians and the wealthy don’t have to live by the same rules as us plebs but it looks to me that they are treated worse. Really? Treated worse? If anything it looks to me that - based on their own guidelines - they must have had potentially even more damning evidence than the harrowing cctv evidence you watched in this example. Perhaps you are right, but it is worrying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's guilty - and certainly very much doubt he'd be found guilty based on what we've heard with the case to date. BUT, based on your scenario above, one has to assume they must have everything bar a victim statement to be wanting to press ahead with this. Leaves a fairly unsavoury taste in the mouth, let's be honest.
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Post by eric on Jun 30, 2022 7:30:25 GMT
I don’t know if anyone watches those fly on the wall type emergency services programmes but there was one on 5Action on Tuesday night (Inside the Force 24/7) which may be of interest on this subject. I’ve never really understood the victimless prosecution part or why the CPS seem so insistent on pursuing this case. It showed the Police being called to a city centre incident where a man was attacking a woman. The people monitoring the areas cctv immediately pointed their cameras and led the police towards the incident and identified the attacker for them. He was arrested on the spot but his female partner who was still on the floor didn’t want to press charges - he was arrested and taken to the cells. The next day he’s interviewed and answers “no comment” to all the questions. The detective asks the CPS to press charges on the strength of the cctv footage - its harrowing to watch as the guy is clearly seen punching her to the head about 4 or 5 times, the final blow sending her to the floor looking unconscious. She manages to then sit up and he volleys her in the face with great force. The next bit was quite staggering. The CPS said their guidelines were not to prosecute if there is no statement from the victim and the perpetrator had not been involved in any domestic violence during the last 12 months. This chap had a long history of such convictions but nothing that the police were aware of in the preceding 12 months so they had to let him go. The detective was rightly furious, questioned why they even bothered and said he might as well hand his badge in in. To add insult to injury they even had to give him a lift home! This incident took place in June 2021 - roughly the same time as JB’s incident is alleged to have taken place. It left me scratching my head as to why the CPS were so keen to pursue the JB case with barely any evidence when it appears totally contradictory to their own guidelines that were in place at the time? We often hear the mantra that celebs, politicians and the wealthy don’t have to live by the same rules as us plebs but it looks to me that they are treated worse. Really? Treated worse? If anything it looks to me that - based on their own guidelines - they must have had potentially even more damning evidence than the harrowing cctv evidence you watched in this example. Perhaps you are right, but it is worrying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's guilty - and certainly very much doubt he'd be found guilty based on what we've heard with the case to date. BUT, based on your scenario above, one has to assume they must have everything bar a victim statement to be wanting to press ahead with this. Leaves a fairly unsavoury taste in the mouth, let's be honest. I’d be surprised if there was anything more damning than that very clear cctv imaging showing a female being punched and kicked to the head on a busy high street but I guess we’ll learn more later in the year. For the time being, like anyone else, we can only guess what happened between JB and his wife or whether a crime was committed. I’m just puzzled and suspicious about the CPS role, their motivations and decisions. I’d be amazed if anyone who watched Tuesdays programme would disagree that the guy should not be walking the streets - the key should have been thrown away. A dangerous and serial offender let loose due to a bizarre guideline and certain to seriously hurt someone else in future.
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Post by RD on Jun 30, 2022 7:32:36 GMT
Really? Treated worse? If anything it looks to me that - based on their own guidelines - they must have had potentially even more damning evidence than the harrowing cctv evidence you watched in this example. Perhaps you are right, but it is worrying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's guilty - and certainly very much doubt he'd be found guilty based on what we've heard with the case to date. BUT, based on your scenario above, one has to assume they must have everything bar a victim statement to be wanting to press ahead with this. Leaves a fairly unsavoury taste in the mouth, let's be honest. I’d be surprised if there was anything more damning than that very clear cctv imaging showing a female being punched and kicked to the head on a busy high street but I guess we’ll learn more later in the year. For the time being, like anyone else, we can only guess what happened between JB and his wife or whether a crime was committed. I’m just puzzled and suspicious about the CPS role, their motivations and decisions. I’d be amazed if anyone who watched Tuesdays programme would disagree that the guy should not be walking the streets - the key should have been thrown away. A dangerous and serial offender let loose due to a bizarre guideline and certain to seriously hurt someone else in future. Yes, I guess it's unlikely it was as damning as that. I guess my worry is that they couldn't even proceed with that, and yet they are proceeding with this. Worries me that something did happen, even if his wife is refusing to testify. That's the worrying thing for me - it makes me more inclined to believe something did happen, and that's a sickening thought tbh.
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Post by eric on Jun 30, 2022 7:45:50 GMT
I’d be surprised if there was anything more damning than that very clear cctv imaging showing a female being punched and kicked to the head on a busy high street but I guess we’ll learn more later in the year. For the time being, like anyone else, we can only guess what happened between JB and his wife or whether a crime was committed. I’m just puzzled and suspicious about the CPS role, their motivations and decisions. I’d be amazed if anyone who watched Tuesdays programme would disagree that the guy should not be walking the streets - the key should have been thrown away. A dangerous and serial offender let loose due to a bizarre guideline and certain to seriously hurt someone else in future. Yes, I guess it's unlikely it was as damning as that. I guess my worry is that they couldn't even proceed with that, and yet they are proceeding with this. Worries me that something did happen, even if his wife is refusing to testify. That's the worrying thing for me - it makes me more inclined to believe something did happen, and that's a sickening thought tbh. My guess is it’s a bit politically motivated and the CPS want to be seen to be tough given the high profile incidents of recent years and public/media pressure for more convictions. With JB being a well known person (and one with a checkered past) they seem blinkered in wanting to press ahead even if it appears contradictory to their own guidelines. It looks like the evidence is flimsy in the JB case and will likely be thrown out. The bigger worry for me after watching that incident on Tuesdays programme is how can anyone have confidence in the criminal justice system when the CPS are clearly so inconsistent. I felt massively sorry for the police watching that - it must be so dispiriting.
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Post by SleepyGas on Jun 30, 2022 8:19:35 GMT
It 100% was But you can understand why Kingswood Polak might have taken it as a serious statement though as it does seem to be a dismissive word thrown at any person/organisation trying to "do the right thing" I’ve not seen cancer charities and help for heroes etc described as “woke”, and they undoubtedly try to do the right thing. Perhaps it’s a fundamental disagreement on what “doing the right thing is”. Nobody really has a monopoly on that idea, although a lot of people think they do. Thank goodness supporting Rovers hasn’t been brandished as woke, as we all know, that’s indisputably the right thing to do. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see charities described as "woke" by some... and to genuinely mean it as a negative. Such is the extent of the so-called "culture war". I might take a peep at Lawrence Fox's twitter later and see if I can find some examples (just kidding - going nowhere near that dumpster fire)
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jun 30, 2022 8:50:42 GMT
the fact that they wanted to proceed without taking a statement from his wife does not show the cps in a good light. The statement that "She has given an account some eight months later after the incident and in the Crown’s submission it is plainly an attempt to exculpate her husband." is quite an appalling thing to admit and they should have been taken to task over it. If they had listened to her statement then made that comment then fair enough - but to assume that they knew what she had to say and so didnt bother with taking a statement - is plainly wrong. It wasted public funds in having to go to trial a second time and seems to endorse the fact that they just want to nail JB because of who he is and perhaps because of their failure with the earlier case. I don’t know if anyone watches those fly on the wall type emergency services programmes but there was one on 5Action on Tuesday night (Inside the Force 24/7) which may be of interest on this subject. I’ve never really understood the victimless prosecution part or why the CPS seem so insistent on pursuing this case. It showed the Police being called to a city centre incident where a man was attacking a woman. The people monitoring the areas cctv immediately pointed their cameras and led the police towards the incident and identified the attacker for them. He was arrested on the spot but his female partner who was still on the floor didn’t want to press charges - he was arrested and taken to the cells. The next day he’s interviewed and answers “no comment” to all the questions. The detective asks the CPS to press charges on the strength of the cctv footage - its harrowing to watch as the guy is clearly seen punching her to the head about 4 or 5 times, the final blow sending her to the floor looking unconscious. She manages to then sit up and he volleys her in the face with great force. The next bit was quite staggering. The CPS said their guidelines were not to prosecute if there is no statement from the victim and the perpetrator had not been involved in any domestic violence during the last 12 months. This chap had a long history of such convictions but nothing that the police were aware of in the preceding 12 months so they had to let him go. The detective was rightly furious, questioned why they even bothered and said he might as well hand his badge in in. To add insult to injury they even had to give him a lift home! This incident took place in June 2021 - roughly the same time as JB’s incident is alleged to have taken place. It left me scratching my head as to why the CPS were so keen to pursue the JB case with barely any evidence when it appears totally contradictory to their own guidelines that were in place at the time? We often hear the mantra that celebs, politicians and the wealthy don’t have to live by the same rules as us plebs but it looks to me that they are treated worse. a couple of years ago my next door "neighbour" gave me a beating and knocked me unconscious and left me with a scar on my face. the police arrested him but did not prosecute him as he showed remorse and was a "outstanding member of the community" ..... i have 2 Gashead friends who are both serving police sergeants and both said it was actual body harm no doubt. i went through 2 appeals over this and got sweet F##k all from the police.. Yes i have no faith in the justice system and never will as this has left me scared for life
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Post by eric on Jun 30, 2022 8:55:38 GMT
I don’t know if anyone watches those fly on the wall type emergency services programmes but there was one on 5Action on Tuesday night (Inside the Force 24/7) which may be of interest on this subject. I’ve never really understood the victimless prosecution part or why the CPS seem so insistent on pursuing this case. It showed the Police being called to a city centre incident where a man was attacking a woman. The people monitoring the areas cctv immediately pointed their cameras and led the police towards the incident and identified the attacker for them. He was arrested on the spot but his female partner who was still on the floor didn’t want to press charges - he was arrested and taken to the cells. The next day he’s interviewed and answers “no comment” to all the questions. The detective asks the CPS to press charges on the strength of the cctv footage - its harrowing to watch as the guy is clearly seen punching her to the head about 4 or 5 times, the final blow sending her to the floor looking unconscious. She manages to then sit up and he volleys her in the face with great force. The next bit was quite staggering. The CPS said their guidelines were not to prosecute if there is no statement from the victim and the perpetrator had not been involved in any domestic violence during the last 12 months. This chap had a long history of such convictions but nothing that the police were aware of in the preceding 12 months so they had to let him go. The detective was rightly furious, questioned why they even bothered and said he might as well hand his badge in in. To add insult to injury they even had to give him a lift home! This incident took place in June 2021 - roughly the same time as JB’s incident is alleged to have taken place. It left me scratching my head as to why the CPS were so keen to pursue the JB case with barely any evidence when it appears totally contradictory to their own guidelines that were in place at the time? We often hear the mantra that celebs, politicians and the wealthy don’t have to live by the same rules as us plebs but it looks to me that they are treated worse. a couple of years ago my next door "neighbour" gave me a beating and knocked me unconscious and left me with a scar on my face. the police arrested him but did not prosecute him as he showed remorse and was a "outstanding member of the community" ..... i have 2 Gashead friends who are both serving police sergeants and both said it was actual body harm no doubt. i went through 2 appeals over this and got sweet F##k all from the police.. Yes i have no faith in the justice system and never will as this has left me scared for life The only consistency seems to be their inconsistency!
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Jun 30, 2022 9:01:20 GMT
the fact that they wanted to proceed without taking a statement from his wife does not show the cps in a good light. The statement that "She has given an account some eight months later after the incident and in the Crown’s submission it is plainly an attempt to exculpate her husband." is quite an appalling thing to admit and they should have been taken to task over it. If they had listened to her statement then made that comment then fair enough - but to assume that they knew what she had to say and so didnt bother with taking a statement - is plainly wrong. It wasted public funds in having to go to trial a second time and seems to endorse the fact that they just want to nail JB because of who he is and perhaps because of their failure with the earlier case. I don’t know if anyone watches those fly on the wall type emergency services programmes but there was one on 5Action on Tuesday night (Inside the Force 24/7) which may be of interest on this subject. I’ve never really understood the victimless prosecution part or why the CPS seem so insistent on pursuing this case. It showed the Police being called to a city centre incident where a man was attacking a woman. The people monitoring the areas cctv immediately pointed their cameras and led the police towards the incident and identified the attacker for them. He was arrested on the spot but his female partner who was still on the floor didn’t want to press charges - he was arrested and taken to the cells. The next day he’s interviewed and answers “no comment” to all the questions. The detective asks the CPS to press charges on the strength of the cctv footage - its harrowing to watch as the guy is clearly seen punching her to the head about 4 or 5 times, the final blow sending her to the floor looking unconscious. She manages to then sit up and he volleys her in the face with great force. The next bit was quite staggering. The CPS said their guidelines were not to prosecute if there is no statement from the victim and the perpetrator had not been involved in any domestic violence during the last 12 months. This chap had a long history of such convictions but nothing that the police were aware of in the preceding 12 months so they had to let him go. The detective was rightly furious, questioned why they even bothered and said he might as well hand his badge in in. To add insult to injury they even had to give him a lift home! This incident took place in June 2021 - roughly the same time as JB’s incident is alleged to have taken place. It left me scratching my head as to why the CPS were so keen to pursue the JB case with barely any evidence when it appears totally contradictory to their own guidelines that were in place at the time? We often hear the mantra that celebs, politicians and the wealthy don’t have to live by the same rules as us plebs but it looks to me that they are treated worse. Very interesting, puts a different slant on the JB case. Great to see you back eric
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Barton...
Jun 30, 2022 9:48:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by olskooltoteender on Jun 30, 2022 9:48:25 GMT
Yes, I guess it's unlikely it was as damning as that. I guess my worry is that they couldn't even proceed with that, and yet they are proceeding with this. Worries me that something did happen, even if his wife is refusing to testify. That's the worrying thing for me - it makes me more inclined to believe something did happen, and that's a sickening thought tbh. My guess is it’s a bit politically motivated and the CPS want to be seen to be tough given the high profile incidents of recent years and public/media pressure for more convictions. With JB being a well known person (and one with a checkered past) they seem blinkered in wanting to press ahead even if it appears contradictory to their own guidelines. It looks like the evidence is flimsy in the JB case and will likely be thrown out. The bigger worry for me after watching that incident on Tuesdays programme is how can anyone have confidence in the criminal justice system when the CPS are clearly so inconsistent. I felt massively sorry for the police watching that - it must be so dispiriting. Very
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trueblur4u
Reserve Team
So we have a know it all!
Posts: 108
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Post by trueblur4u on Jun 30, 2022 13:41:38 GMT
I think Wael will stick with manager Joey, come what may!
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Post by SleepyGas on Jun 30, 2022 13:50:30 GMT
I think Wael will stick with manager Joey, come what may! In the unlikely event that this case ever gets back to court and the magistrate finds him guilty of assaulting his wife then Wael would have no choice but to sack him. I don't think that is even up for debate? "Firstly, I think it is really important to confirm that as a club we stand firmly against any form of violence. Any individual that is found guilty of any such offences will be dismissed immediately."www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wael-al-qadi-issues-open-5706792
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2022 13:58:56 GMT
Beat me to it, 100% will go if found guilty and quite right too.
Only thing that will change that is an appeal process I guess, as I am sure the club will not want to lose him. He probably has a big compensation clause in his contract now.
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Post by SleepyGas on Jun 30, 2022 14:16:51 GMT
Beat me to it, 100% will go if found guilty and quite right too. Only thing that will change that is an appeal process I guess, as I am sure the club will not want to lose him. He probably has a big compensation clause in his contract now. Surely if you are sacked for assault you waive your right to any severance pay? Even if that is not the case; surely he is on the same contract he was when he signed initially (or have I missed it being announced that it was extended?) he already had a courtcase hanging over him for violent conduct (and you would have to concede even then that he had a slightly higher than average risk of more to come); so it would have been foolish of us not to include a (zero compensation) release clause if found guilty in his initial contract.
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Post by aghast on Jun 30, 2022 15:47:56 GMT
I think Wael will stick with manager Joey, come what may! Unlikely if he's banged up in Wandsworth Prison. You did say come what may.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2022 16:50:07 GMT
Beat me to it, 100% will go if found guilty and quite right too. Only thing that will change that is an appeal process I guess, as I am sure the club will not want to lose him. He probably has a big compensation clause in his contract now. Surely if you are sacked for assault you waive your right to any severance pay? Even if that is not the case; surely he is on the same contract he was when he signed initially (or have I missed it being announced that it was extended?) he already had a courtcase hanging over him for violent conduct (and you would have to concede even then that he had a slightly higher than average risk of more to come); so it would have been foolish of us not to include a (zero compensation) release clause if found guilty in his initial contract. Sorry my fault it wasn't clear, If he is guilty he will go down and be sacked with no pay or severance package and rightly so. I meant to say he would only escape being sacked i would think if it went to appeal, and if he was acquitted and went back to normal service I'd be amazed if Wael hasn't already put a big compensation clause into his original contract
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Post by bidefordgas on Jun 30, 2022 17:07:30 GMT
Surely if you are sacked for assault you waive your right to any severance pay? Even if that is not the case; surely he is on the same contract he was when he signed initially (or have I missed it being announced that it was extended?) he already had a courtcase hanging over him for violent conduct (and you would have to concede even then that he had a slightly higher than average risk of more to come); so it would have been foolish of us not to include a (zero compensation) release clause if found guilty in his initial contract. Sorry my fault it wasn't clear, If he is guilty he will go down and be sacked with no pay or severance package and rightly so. I meant to say he would only escape being sacked i would think if it went to appeal, and if he was acquitted and went back to normal service I'd be amazed if Wael hasn't already put a big compensation clause into his original contract If by "go down", you mean he will go to jail. There is little chance of that happening, just as there is of him being found guilty. Of course that is my opinion. That said, from what is in the public domain and if his wife does appear for the defence, it would be very difficult for a magistrate to find him guilty. Having said that, if some on here were the magistrate, they would probably send him down for life.
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jun 30, 2022 17:40:36 GMT
Not sure you understand what compassion is - sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others Sounds "woke" to me........ Now that made me laugh - 56 year old in a punk band very woke
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Barton...
Jun 30, 2022 17:44:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jun 30, 2022 17:44:31 GMT
Afraid not. I can understand the motives of a serial killer, but it doesn’t mean I sympathise with them. We have different words in the English language for a reason. It’s why I’ve used the word “understand” and not “sympathise”. Not sure I'll ever understand the motives of a serial killer. Mrs Midsummer is a counsellor and serial killers fascinate her. Many had horrific childhoods apparently
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 30, 2022 18:21:01 GMT
Beat me to it, 100% will go if found guilty and quite right too. Only thing that will change that is an appeal process I guess, as I am sure the club will not want to lose him. He probably has a big compensation clause in his contract now. Surely if you are sacked for assault you waive your right to any severance pay? Even if that is not the case; surely he is on the same contract he was when he signed initially (or have I missed it being announced that it was extended?) he already had a courtcase hanging over him for violent conduct (and you would have to concede even then that he had a slightly higher than average risk of more to come); so it would have been foolish of us not to include a (zero compensation) release clause if found guilty in his initial contract. Surely it would just be a standard contract which allows dismissal for gross misconduct, there's no need to include further clauses relating to Barton's outstanding court cases. Although if we're flying in L1 and he's found guilty I can see Wael doing everything he can to wriggle out of dismissing him, regardless as to what he's stated in the past.
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Post by Baxtinho on Jun 30, 2022 19:30:52 GMT
Although if we're flying in L1 and he's found guilty I can see Wael doing everything he can to wriggle out of dismissing him, regardless as to what he's stated in the past. Seriously? Wael is a lot things but there's no way he's stupid. What you describe would be an enormous PR own goal, it would turn the vast majority of fans against him and we'd have to deal with everything else that'd come with standing behind a manager convicted of trying to kick his wife's head off. There's a section of our fans, I have no doubt, that would want Barton to stay even if found guilty - but there are things more important in life than doing well on a football pitch.
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