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Post by Topper Gas on May 13, 2016 13:14:57 GMT
NH agreed to making funds available to secure the transfer of Gaffney at a time when the club didn't seem to have two pennies to rub together. My other point doesn't really relate to NH personally but rather to the ownership and development of lower league clubs in general. Someone on here posted the average salaries of players in the 4 different divisions. The gulf between each division was huge. I also looked at the external financing of football clubs from the distribution rights from TV. Again the gulf between each division is massive, and getting even bigger next year. A fact that surprised me also was that there was no specific financial prize awarded to the winners or promotees of either league 1 or league 2. In fact, from a promotion point of view it is more lucrative to be promoted via the playoffs because of the additional tv money and a share of the additional gate receipts. I cannot see a possible way in which clubs that are owned by supporters trusts or indeed local, parochial owners can ever hope to compete all the way to the top. Without being personal about him, I do not think we would ever be able to compete any higher than L1 under NH. I believe that the new owners might make that further progression easier. I guess that depended on what would have happened if we'd sold the Mem to Sainsbury's and built the UWE with the proceeds? Could the UWE have generated sufficient income streams itself to make us Div 1 promotion challengers, or was NH plan always to sell out once it was built?
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Post by slam on May 13, 2016 13:55:11 GMT
NH agreed to making funds available to secure the transfer of Gaffney at a time when the club didn't seem to have two pennies to rub together. My other point doesn't really relate to NH personally but rather to the ownership and development of lower league clubs in general. Someone on here posted the average salaries of players in the 4 different divisions. The gulf between each division was huge. I also looked at the external financing of football clubs from the distribution rights from TV. Again the gulf between each division is massive, and getting even bigger next year. A fact that surprised me also was that there was no specific financial prize awarded to the winners or promotees of either league 1 or league 2. In fact, from a promotion point of view it is more lucrative to be promoted via the playoffs because of the additional tv money and a share of the additional gate receipts. I cannot see a possible way in which clubs that are owned by supporters trusts or indeed local, parochial owners can ever hope to compete all the way to the top. Without being personal about him, I do not think we would ever be able to compete any higher than L1 under NH. I believe that the new owners might make that further progression easier. I guess that depended on what would have happened if we'd sold the Mem to Sainsbury's and built the UWE with the proceeds? Could the UWE have generated sufficient income streams itself to make us Div 1 promotion challengers, or was NH plan always to sell out once it was built? I have wondered about that a lot.
In my opinion, NH was a true Gashead and wanted only the best for the club. One of the problems with the business model for the building of the new stadium at UWE was that it was 100% contingent on the sale of the Mem for funding the build. The value of the build was geared to the sale value of the Mem (and actually there was even a shortfall then). If you add to that the fact that the value of the Mem had been artificially inflated because of the planning permission to build a supermarket - everything boiled down to the sale of the land to Sainsbury's. When Sainsbury's dropped out - there was nowhere to go as there was probably a differential of about £8 Million between the Sainsbury's price and the alternate value of the land.
In my opinion, the UWE stadium plans were kind of shoe string stuff and probably did limit the potential for future growth of the club simply because of the budgetary constraints. Again, in my opinion, the reason for the delay in announcements about the stadium from the new owners, is because they are re-addressing the existing plans from a completely different perspective, a different budget and a focussed business model that permits more ambition for progressing the club.
I don't think NH's business plan addressed the future progression of the club any further than the existing budgetary constraints permitted. If the Stadium build went over budget or if the completed stadium did not generate the income stream that was hoped for, I think we would have been f@@ked.
Again, in my opinion, I think we can now look forward to a much more robust plan for the future.
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Post by newmarketgas on May 13, 2016 15:10:32 GMT
NH could have done that. In fact he should have. Why ? KS by his own actions banned himself.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 13, 2016 15:30:12 GMT
For the record I've thought overall his reign was a Dam shambles.
The feel-good factor and potential to secure the future for players hoping to aspire to L1 (and the better contract they could command) would never have happened under the old regime. I think the boost the take over gave all of us was massive. I don't think we would have got over the line this year without that boost at a great time.
The embracing of fans groups such as gascast, FFSC and Crossed Swords Clothing would never have happened under the old regime.
I'm not sure that the planning permission and potential of UWE was even a factor in the buy out since it would appear the new owners have had to go back and renegotiate the deal we had in place. More likely, the UWE/Sainsbury affair made us more attractive because we were a weak acquisition due to mounting debts and desperation. I'm possibly completely wrong on this point so I will discount it as means to Judge Nick Higgs or as stick to beat him with.
In terms of his recruitment and backing of managers I don't think he can be faulted. He recruited well even if the end results were not always great. (other than Graydon I think most were happy with all his appointments). His backing of DC may have been of financial necessity but the rumours I heard at the time DC was under pressure was that NH was always firmly behind his man when others around him had their doubts. It's this decision above all others that I am more inclined to want to look back on when remembering NHs tenure.
With success and considerably much less disappointment over time I think I may reassess Nick Higgs. Divisive, bullish and insular, yes. Never a success, but maybe less of a failure than I and many others believe.
Funny what a bit of success does to the memory.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 13, 2016 15:31:36 GMT
NH could have done that. In fact he should have. Why ? KS by his own actions banned himself. He should never have been banned. KS didn't ban himself.
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Post by newmarketgas on May 13, 2016 15:35:27 GMT
Why ? KS by his own actions banned himself. He should never have been banned. KS didn't ban himself. Have it your way, have you asked the God that is KS the question himself ?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 13, 2016 15:37:48 GMT
He should never have been banned. KS didn't ban himself. Have it your way, have you asked the God that is KS the question himself ? Nope don't know him, never met him. Did he write and hand himself a letter then?
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Post by newmarketgas on May 13, 2016 15:39:15 GMT
No, his big mouth did all the work on it's own.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 13, 2016 15:42:10 GMT
No, his big mouth did all the work on it's own. I'm no KS sympathizer mate, however I don't feel that it's ever ok for a board to ban someone for what they say unless its illegal to say it. It's not the USSR!
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Post by newmarketgas on May 13, 2016 15:47:17 GMT
Ok, that's a decent point.
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Post by Okebournegas on May 13, 2016 15:56:05 GMT
For the record I've thought overall his reign was a f**king shambles. The feel-good factor and potential to secure the future for players hoping to aspire to L1 (and the better contract they could command) would never have happened under the old regime. I think the boost the take over gave all of us was massive. I don't think we would have got over the line this year without that boost at a great time. The embracing of fans groups such as gascast, FFSC and Crossed Swords Clothing would never have happened under the old regime. I'm not sure that the planning permission and potential of UWE was even a factor in the buy out since it would appear the new owners have had to go back and renegotiate the deal we had in place. More likely, the UWE/Sainsbury affair made us more attractive because we were a weak acquisition due to mounting debts and desperation. I'm possibly completely wrong on this point so I will discount it as means to Judge Nick Higgs or as stick to beat him with. In terms of his recruitment and backing of managers I don't think he can be faulted. He recruited well even if the end results were not always great. (other than Graydon I think most were happy with all his appointments). His backing of DC may have been of financial necessity but the rumours I heard at the time DC was under pressure was that NH was always firmly behind his man when others around him had their doubts. It's this decision above all others that I am more inclined to want to look back on when remembering NHs tenure. With success and considerably much less disappointment over time I think I may reassess Nick Higgs. Divisive, bullish and insular, yes. Never a success, but maybe less of a failure than I and many others believe. Funny what a bit of success does to the memory. Glad I read that Hugo ! Good post ! And I agree
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on May 13, 2016 15:59:36 GMT
Will be interesting to see what reaction we get on here when the family make their 1st mistake.... Playing devil's advocate.... What has actually been done so far that wouldn't/couldn't have been done under NH? Scoreboard and ladies bogs. Pathetic in the grand scheme of things but they needed looking at 10 years ago but sod all was done.
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on May 13, 2016 16:18:20 GMT
For the record I've thought overall his reign was a f**king shambles. The feel-good factor and potential to secure the future for players hoping to aspire to L1 (and the better contract they could command) would never have happened under the old regime. I think the boost the take over gave all of us was massive. I don't think we would have got over the line this year without that boost at a great time. The embracing of fans groups such as gascast, FFSC and Crossed Swords Clothing would never have happened under the old regime. I'm not sure that the planning permission and potential of UWE was even a factor in the buy out since it would appear the new owners have had to go back and renegotiate the deal we had in place. More likely, the UWE/Sainsbury affair made us more attractive because we were a weak acquisition due to mounting debts and desperation. I'm possibly completely wrong on this point so I will discount it as means to Judge Nick Higgs or as stick to beat him with. In terms of his recruitment and backing of managers I don't think he can be faulted. He recruited well even if the end results were not always great. (other than Graydon I think most were happy with all his appointments). His backing of DC may have been of financial necessity but the rumours I heard at the time DC was under pressure was that NH was always firmly behind his man when others around him had their doubts. It's this decision above all others that I am more inclined to want to look back on when remembering NHs tenure. With success and considerably much less disappointment over time I think I may reassess Nick Higgs. Divisive, bullish and insular, yes. Never a success, but maybe less of a failure than I and many others believe. Funny what a bit of success does to the memory. Surely Graydon was well before his time?
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Post by Strange Gas on May 13, 2016 17:28:37 GMT
Will be interesting to see what reaction we get on here when the family make their 1st mistake.... Playing devil's advocate.... What has actually been done so far that wouldn't/couldn't have been done under NH? Brilliant point and the source of all the frustration and distrust towards the NH regime (and to an extent GD as well) in my view, some miss placed, but some warranted. In reality WAQ has spent very little I suspect but got on with a range of things that have moved our club forward. Higgs and co could have done most if not all the things the new team are doing, but didn't have the vision or sense to do so as he was locked on a downward spiral. I thought at the time that was why Sexton was being brought in, to bring some commercial sense and direction to a club that had lost its way, turn around the oil taker before it hit the rocks. We now know what it feels like to be in an upward spiral! Clearly it takes a few key people to do that so the tinkering was never gonna work in reality. Do still wonder if the much sought after Director with IT skills was the missing piece of the Higgs jigsaw mind!
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on May 13, 2016 17:31:32 GMT
Playing devil's advocate.... What has actually been done so far that wouldn't/couldn't have been done under NH? Brilliant point and the source of all the frustration and distrust towards the NH regime (and to an extent GD as well) in my view, some miss placed, but some warranted. In reality WAQ has spent very little I suspect but got on with a range of things that have moved our club forward. Higgs and co could have done most if not all the things the new team are doing, but didn't have the vision or sense to do so as he was locked on a downward spiral. I thought at the time that was why Sexton was being brought in, to bring some commercial sense and direction to a club that had lost its way, turn around the oil taker before it hit the rocks. We now know what it feels like to be in an upward spiral! Clearly it takes a few key people to do that so the tinkering was never gonna work in reality. Do still wonder if the much sought after Director with IT skills was the missing piece of the Higgs jigsaw mind! What happened to Sextone?! Forgot about him!
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Post by Strange Gas on May 13, 2016 17:34:07 GMT
Brilliant point and the source of all the frustration and distrust towards the NH regime (and to an extent GD as well) in my view, some miss placed, but some warranted. In reality WAQ has spent very little I suspect but got on with a range of things that have moved our club forward. Higgs and co could have done most if not all the things the new team are doing, but didn't have the vision or sense to do so as he was locked on a downward spiral. I thought at the time that was why Sexton was being brought in, to bring some commercial sense and direction to a club that had lost its way, turn around the oil taker before it hit the rocks. We now know what it feels like to be in an upward spiral! Clearly it takes a few key people to do that so the tinkering was never gonna work in reality. Do still wonder if the much sought after Director with IT skills was the missing piece of the Higgs jigsaw mind! What happened to Sextone?! Forgot about him! Or the PR bloke?! I am sure somebody said Sextone brokered the deal but was remarkably invisible, although if true he's a hero!
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Post by Big Jock on May 13, 2016 17:40:20 GMT
dinnae wurry wees al be moanin aboot this lot befor yous know it Jes sayin like
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Post by Hugo the Elder on May 13, 2016 19:26:01 GMT
dinnae wurry wees al be moanin aboot this lot befor yous know it Jes sayin like I for one am still very wary. I was firmly a NH man and fully supported him to the point where I was one of the OF blue tinters and over time felt let down. I'm sure that feeling of disappointment still clouds my judgement of him negatively today. This time round I'm going to be much more open minded but also much more sceptical. As others have said a score board, ladies bogs, inclusiveness, some positive PR and a lick of paint were such simple things but the new owners have done it and made a massive impact on the fans. I applaud this but remain grounded that that's all they've done so far. Every long journey begins with a few little steps.
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Post by gashead1981 on May 13, 2016 19:30:43 GMT
This is my view and based on what I know.
Higgs made some catastrophic errors during his tenure. The sacking of Trollope, appointing Stuart Campbell, then McGhee and also persuading John Ward to stay on for the following season when all he wanted was a DOF or youth team role. Paul Buckle I can kind of forgive him for as at the time his stock was high having worked miracles at Torquay and he got the timing right to sack him when he did. TBF to Buckle, as much as I hated the poisonous little scroat, he signed a half decent squad. Sticking with DC was the best decision he ever made even when the first 5 games didn't go to plan. I know there were definitely plans in place to sack him had he not turned the side around. Higgs always backed his manager too with players and resources as far as the budget would go. However some contract lengths were absolute madness and I'm glad that hasn't returned.
Credit where it's due Higgs put in £6m of his own money to keep bankrolling us, whether you can afford it all or not, that's still a tidy sum. He sold his shares and all the other directors sold their shares for £1 each. That shows his love for the club to a large degree in my view.
He also refused to let Sainsburys walk away in 2013. I spoke with a member of the new board at the Dag game and he told me catagorically that they would have never been interested if there was no plans for the stadium that could be executed within 3 years, that if we were a conference league club or if the club was underpinned with huge financial insecurity. Well Higgs belligerence paid off in the end.
What annoyed me about Higgs was his PR or the lack of it. It was his way or the highway and that came across in the contentious way he conducted himself during interviews, especially when he was under the cosh. He could and should have been more open on some subjects or at least given enough information to be helpful or liked. Instead we got shut down comments.
I know for a fact him and GD didn't get on and things seemed to turn once his influence had gone. The rest of the board members got on fine with him, even though he tried and did take credit for some of the work other did. It is popular held view that Higgs and the UWE was his deal and legacy when in fact it was Ed Ware who made the introductions and did most of the donkey work on the planning and evaluation phases making it a viable project to sell to the UWE.
All in all I am grateful for Higgs running our club and putting his own personal fortune in. I am also grateful for the way he was able to start the ball rolling in rebuilding the future of the club. However his tenure will always be tarnished with many seasons of mismanagement and relegation to the conference. I for one though would like to thank him for doing his best, even if that fell short of good enough on many occasions.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on May 13, 2016 19:31:59 GMT
I'm on the Wael-a-go-round, all the way. Woo woo!
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