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Post by oldgas on Apr 2, 2021 7:58:16 GMT
I just wish he’d chosen a different date to publish this.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 2, 2021 7:54:51 GMT
Well done Open Democracy. Exactly why this Government needs to be checked and resisted as necessary. Said Wolfie Oldie of the Gas Chat Popular People’s Front. Unconditionally backed, as you’d expect, by his faithful Lieutenant and lap dog Grover the Muppet.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 2, 2021 7:45:04 GMT
Desperate lengths to compare this legislation with Chinese action in Hong Kong. And saying comment about the Chinese state suppression in Tianaman Square is waffle discloses a worrying ignorance of the lessons from history. And you seem to view any argument against your position as a diatribe Do you dismiss people who discuss the 3rd Reich and Holocaust as wafflers? I’m a bit surprised at that. Not at all, the diatribe and waffle reference was to you bringing up the subject, you were the one making the comparison. I was merely pointing out that Tianaman Square wasn't the last time and missing out Hong Kong seemed remiss of you. I still recall watching it live, as I did all the big events in 1989, including the Romanian uprising with the army going public saying they would not fire on the people, in contrast to China. It was very emotional and played a big part of my younger years. The comparison is exaggerated but the point remains, laws change. If you think I don't take those events seriously or that of the Third Reich/Holocaust then you really don't know me. I was pointing out that a total Communist state like China books no argument and was quite happy to slaughter protesters by crushing them with tanks the last time they had a mainland riot. With communism there is no meeting half way. The state is in control, is always right and therefore demonstration is a crime against the state and will be ruthlessly put down. To describe that as a diatribe and waffle is therefore ridiculous. As for Hong Kong, you must be aware there were a number of conditions and guarantees signed up to by the Chinese when we handed the province over. They have had to abide by them to maintain international credibility while they built their power. Now they are mostly unassailable both militarily and through world trade influence they had the excuse they needed and dealt with the Hong Kong protests. They put their troops in there and I don’t suppose they’ll ever leave. Hong Kong has gone, and I don’t suppose Taiwan will last as long as another decade before they’re subsumed. To say that the laws on protesting in this country being adjusted to account for the new wave and level of lawlessness to deal with those factors can be equated with the actions of China, however loosely, is ridiculous. I can’t believe that a libertarian like yourself would be anything other than horrified by China’s actions, and would expect you to condemn anyone who lauds the communist system as anything other than horrendous and a blight on humanity. But there you go.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 19:11:22 GMT
So the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities report has found that concerns the UK is institutionally racist are not borne out by the evidence. Also "The Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities, set up after Black Lives Matter protests, found social class and family structure had a bigger impact on how people's lives turned out." Surprise, surprise. As ever, facts and evidence will quash victimhood and false narratives. So, yes Racism exists, in all corners of the globe, unfortunately. But "Systemic" or "Institutional" racism in the UK, just like the US, is a modern day, myth. But of course, race sells so turning everything into a racial issue will create headlines and push people towards certain narratives. www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-56585538So the report says racial discrimination is mainly an effect of class society. And you were one of those screaming that BLM is just a Marxist organisation? Tories are all over the place, making it up as they go pal. Quite clearly that isn’t what it’s saying. The biggest barrier to being successful in this country is culture. Certain cultures unfortunately predict failure in life. It is possible for some to escape the effect of their culture, such as the man who wrote this report. However that doesn’t suit the apologists and so now a huge row has broken out, and you have idiots like Starmer shouting his mouth off about even more legislation to assist with social engineering and gerrymandering. As usual he’s playing to the noisy minority. Good on him. With him in charge Labour have no chance of government and the Conservatives can continue rolling back the frontiers of socialism. Good old Maggie, what a woman!
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 18:59:05 GMT
Thanks for the clarification. How is Macron perceived to be doing by the French public? Hi Stuart. Apologies if my reply was on the abrupt side. Technically yes France is in another lockdown but it's not as strict as the previous ones. Non essential shops are to close, supermarkets, hairdressers remain open. The DIY stores although shut will still do a click and collect service. Schools will close for 3 weeks although two of those weeks take in the 2 week Easter holiday so in effect he's only shut them for a week! (Should have done it months ago like in the UK). We are free to go about our every day business although if we travel more than 10km from the house we have to complete an on line form pretty much like last time although then we had to complete it for any distance from the house. For the past 2 months we have been under a 6pm to 6am curfew they have amended it to 7pm to 6am. I had just watched the most insincere address my Macron to the nation where he blabbed on about how they would ramp up the vaccine rollout as they have the Pfizer, Moderna and soon the J&J with absolute no mention of AstraZeneca which got my back up. So apologies again if my initial response came across as short and sharp. Macron hates the UK with a passion doesn’t he? I saw him in an interview saying France had been slow off the vaccine mark. He then started praising the USA for shooting for the stars in the way they have been mass-vaccinating. Not one mention of the UK! Has he been taken to task over his insistence the EU buy God knows how many doses of a vaccine developed by France that actually turned out to be useless? The French media seem to give their politicians a much easier ride than that afforded our politicians by the British media.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 18:52:05 GMT
Even better if they ship out all those who scream ‘Racist’ at anyone who disagrees with them. Got your bags packed ready? Ooh look , it’s the ticket collector 👀 🚂 ? ? ?
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 18:16:37 GMT
Can’t wait for the next progressive alliance government, who’ll hopefully rejoin the EU , let in more refugees, increase taxes for the rich and ship out of the country anyone with racist views . It’s good to know that the ‘right’ on here won’t be out protesting as they agree with the Bill. Even better if they ship out all those who scream ‘Racist’ at anyone who disagrees with them. Got your bags packed ready?
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 18:13:26 GMT
How do you know they do? Ive got no issue with peaceful protest, it is a cherished freedom denied to probably more than half the worlds population. Take your Chinese Communist utopia for example. The last time they tried demonstrating there they got run over with tanks. However, these demonstrations need to remain under control and should co-operate with the authorities. In that way, the usual left wing rabble who infiltrate these demos, with their stated aim of overthrowing democracy and replacing the government could be controlled. Lets not forget their stated aim is to install a Communist dictatorship which, guess what? Would ban all protests and probably run over anyone who tried it with tanks. Firstly, you had the initial claim so the burden of proof is on you. Secondly, your diatribe is outdated and unnecessary waffle. Not sure Marx and Engles would recognise the Chinese Communist Party. Don't forget the Hong Kong protesters, that started with a change in the law. They had the right to protest and has since been targeted by police for 'infringements'. We lose our rights and freedoms too easily. Desperate lengths to compare this legislation with Chinese action in Hong Kong. And saying comment about the Chinese state suppression in Tianaman Square is waffle discloses a worrying ignorance of the lessons from history. And you seem to view any argument against your position as a diatribe Do you dismiss people who discuss the 3rd Reich and Holocaust as wafflers? I’m a bit surprised at that.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 18:07:32 GMT
Does it though? As far as I can tell all the bill seeks to do is ensure proper consultation between protest organisers, the Police, L A etc etc so the protesters can have their say without causing disruption to countless thousands of others who aren’t protesting. Seems eminently reasonable to me, unless, of course, you’re part of an aggressive left-wing anti-democracy hate mob waiting in the wings to hijack the event, and use it to commit the kind of mayhem we’ve seen recently from BLM, Reclaim the Streets, etc etc. This is the list of changes: "How will the bill change those powers? Police chiefs will be able to put more conditions on static protests. They will be able to: Impose a start and finish time Set noise limits Apply these rules to a demonstration by just one person Taken to an extreme, let's say there's an individual holding a protest placard, while blasting out their views on a speaker. If they refuse to follow police directions over how they should conduct their protest, they could be fined up to £2,500. It will also become a crime to fail to follow restrictions the protesters "ought" to have known about, even if they have not received a direct order from an officer. At present, police need to prove protesters knew they had been told to move on, before they can be said to have broken the law. The proposed law includes an offence of "intentionally or recklessly causing public nuisance". This is designed to stop people occupying public spaces, hanging off bridges, gluing themselves to windows, or employing other protest tactics to make themselves both seen and heard. One final measure clarifies that damage to memorials could lead to up to 10 years in prison. This follows the toppling of a statue of slave trader Edward Colston in Bristol." So, providing protesters follow the rules, hopefully laid down in legislation, they can protest all they want. Whats all the fuss about?
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 13:43:34 GMT
There were about 300 people protesting. That isn’t very many at all. Their views aren’t those of the overwhelming majority of people. Why should they be allowed to inconvenience and disrupt the lives of the vast majority of people? Firstly, how do you know their views don’t represent the majority of people? Secondly, you’re then suggesting that for any protest to take place and disrupt things, the majority must be in support of the reason they’re protesting. Which is crazy IMO How do you know they do? Ive got no issue with peaceful protest, it is a cherished freedom denied to probably more than half the worlds population. Take your Chinese Communist utopia for example. The last time they tried demonstrating there they got run over with tanks. However, these demonstrations need to remain under control and should co-operate with the authorities. In that way, the usual left wing rabble who infiltrate these demos, with their stated aim of overthrowing democracy and replacing the government could be controlled. Lets not forget their stated aim is to install a Communist dictatorship which, guess what? Would ban all protests and probably run over anyone who tried it with tanks.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 13:37:56 GMT
To cause as much disruption as possible by a minority few - which is easy to do and it happened again last night. I recall the whole of the M5 being closed for around five hours, both ways when a guy was threatening to jump of the Avonmouth bridge. All this is going to do is seriously hack off the majority if they cannot go about there normal business, imo the overwhelming majority to force change in this Bill is not there. A good measure of how this inept opposition party are doing post Brexit and hopefully the worst of COVID behind us will be an overwhelming majority next month in the marginal Labour seat of Hartlepool, nothing less. No The point of the demo is to highlight the wording in a proposed bill going through Parliament which threatens our right of association and assembly. What the participants are wearing is hardly relevant. Quite frankly that sort of attitude exposes a a deep seated prejudice and an inability to see or indeed acknowledge the bigger picture. I would contend that it is also deeply unpatriotic. Given the efforts put in by our forefathers to win and defend the freedoms we enjoy and are now under threat. Does it though? As far as I can tell all the bill seeks to do is ensure proper consultation between protest organisers, the Police, L A etc etc so the protesters can have their say without causing disruption to countless thousands of others who aren’t protesting. Seems eminently reasonable to me, unless, of course, you’re part of an aggressive left-wing anti-democracy hate mob waiting in the wings to hijack the event, and use it to commit the kind of mayhem we’ve seen recently from BLM, Reclaim the Streets, etc etc.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 13:30:22 GMT
More great virtue planned for Saturday 1pm around the nation. View AttachmentWill you be there?q
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 11:25:38 GMT
To cause as much disruption as possible by a minority few - which is easy to do and it happened again last night. I recall the whole of the M5 being closed for around five hours, both ways when a guy was threatening to jump of the Avonmouth bridge. All this is going to do is seriously hack off the majority if they cannot go about there normal business, imo the overwhelming majority to force change in this Bill is not there. A good measure of how this inept opposition party are doing post Brexit and hopefully the worst of COVID behind us will be an overwhelming majority next month in the marginal Labour seat of Hartlepool, nothing less. No The point of the demo is to highlight the wording in a proposed bill going through Parliament which threatens our right of association and assembly. What the participants are wearing is hardly relevant. Quite frankly that sort of attitude exposes a a deep seated prejudice and an inability to see or indeed acknowledge the bigger picture. I would contend that it is also deeply unpatriotic. Given the efforts put in by our forefathers to win and defend the freedoms we enjoy and are now under threat. There were about 300 people protesting. That isn’t very many at all. Their views aren’t those of the overwhelming majority of people. Why should they be allowed to inconvenience and disrupt the lives of the vast majority of people?
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 7:54:30 GMT
Thanks for the clarification. How is Macron perceived to be doing by the French public? In 3 words....A total disaster Nothing more than a Gallic version of that slime ball Blair.
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Post by oldgas on Apr 1, 2021 7:52:22 GMT
Tell me about it Gassy. My wife works as an English assistant in the primary Schools. Next week the Schools would be open , the two weeks after are the usual two week Easter holidays. So in effect he's only shutting the schools for an extra week! You know, if he'd actually have said, "schools shutting for 1 week + the holidays with a review to be taken during the middle of the holidays as to when they'll return" - you'd actually say, ok - good idea. But like with anything in politics, its how you sell it. I remember in 2016 in Spring I was meeting with a French client (senior lady in a large pharma company, so she's no fool), and we were talking about Macron who I guess had just won the election at the time and to the naked eye to me, seemed a decent politician. You know what she said about him as one of the first things? "Have you heard how good his English is? It's really fantastic". I remember thinking at the time, is that really why you voted for him? It was a nice fairly tale shock election win, but my god he's done poorly. I wonder what his Germans like?
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Post by oldgas on Mar 31, 2021 17:22:46 GMT
By the way, do we know if there was any violence at the protests tonight? No, reason we’re only estimated to be about 300 there. Far too few to cause bother when they only outnumber the Police by about 3 to 1, not their idea of fair odds. Also, did you see the state of them? Pathetic looking idiots who probably draw far more than they put in. 300, wow, that’s really representative of a city of approaching 500,000 citizens.
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Post by oldgas on Mar 31, 2021 7:20:03 GMT
Not sure. I know it kicked off in a park in Nottingham Monday, but that was due to drunk students. Well "Supt Mark Runacres of Avon and Somerset Police said the force deployed police liaison officers at College Green "to try and develop that communication" with protesters. "They established some communication which has been really helpful and again thanks to those who have assisted us with that," he said. "That's what we look to encourage in advance of any future protest events, particularly Saturday to get in touch with us in advance so that we can discuss things like the protest route, the timings the duration and the end point." "That really helps us to assist and facilitate the protest." ASSIST & FACILITATE That's more like it. Policing by consent. This will have some on here spitting rivets this morning.🤭🤭🤭 Pretty much what the proposed legislation is seeking to achieve.
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Post by oldgas on Mar 30, 2021 21:50:59 GMT
“deflect” - hypocrite readily springs to mind. Don’t you have anything to say about my “above post” which was on topic? What because I responded to OldGas' post where stuart mentioned about showing it as a GGMI 'Boom' moment? I'd say thats continuing that line of discussion. Unless it was aimed at me specifically, I'm not deflecting anything. But sure, if you'd really like me to respond:I don't really have much to say on it, you made point which I largely agree with. But the specific issue you've raised is an issue with actually any protest, ever. What about in normal circumstances when people can't get to/from work? Nurses/doctors will have this issue even without a pandemic. Yes, it's almost certainly more important now, but the point you're making actually probably has less of an effect on people's lives than it normally would (due to less people travelling). Why didn’t you put the whole of my post on here rather than a segment you know doesn’t represent the totality of the post and was obviously chosen by you to try and prove you’re point? Also, why don’t you put up Oldies final post on that thread, the one to which I referred and let people make their own minds up. Go on, it’s on page 45 of the Brexit and the whole wide world thread. Once again, you have already been called out on that forum for devious behaviour and you seem to have disappeared from there and taken your posts with you. Something to hide?
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Post by oldgas on Mar 30, 2021 17:30:36 GMT
Let’s be fair, we’re giving them plenty of ammo at the moment.
The Mind the gap posts when we’re relegated will be hilarious.
Can’t wait.
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Post by oldgas on Mar 30, 2021 16:25:11 GMT
For example, Oldie withdrew from this forum for a few weeks. I could have made myself look silly by saying on here I suspected he got so overwrought arguing with me that he decided to take time out. Yeah, imagine how silly you'd look. Ive read the post in which Oldie took his leave of the forum in the other place and he basically flounced off because he couldn’t win the argument and was outnumbered. Perhaps he had a taste of the medicine Brexiteers suffer on here. He’s obviously left this forum as well to save face. How typically left wing. Perhaps all you Remainers ought to set up a private chat room where you can all sit around making smug comments about how great the EU is. As has been proven multiple times, you'll make up anything to try and back up a point. You should be ashamed, using someone's personal circumstances to score a political point. And then to top it off, you claim you'd never do anything like that. You’re now referring to a different forum? Is that the same forum where you were posting under a different name, got found out, was censored and then disappeared? That forum?
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