pirate
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Post by pirate on Jun 13, 2018 19:04:02 GMT
Blimey why do some people seem to find pleasure in running down someone who’s been a solid player for us for two, nearly three years. I wouldn’t disagree with those that say that we need to be aiming for better quality if we are aiming for the top six but just say that without being so dismissive. The guy deserves respect for what he has achieved with us. Good luck to him whatever happens. UTG! Agree completely. Rory had a very good first half of the season, then it did tail off but I don't remember him ever having a nightmare game. A level above Nichols - he's the one we should move on to free up wages ! In an ideal world for me they would both be moved on.
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Post by alvestongas on Jun 13, 2018 19:13:04 GMT
I too would keep Rory, hard working, never selfish & we know he has a goal or two in him. Take him out & we really need two more strikers & I doubt we could replace him with much better with the sort of fees clubs are demanding and wages players expect. Rory is another of quite a few lads who (I guess) have done very well for this club without costing us a fortune in fees or wages.
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Post by madgas on Jun 13, 2018 19:24:06 GMT
Agree completely. Rory had a very good first half of the season, then it did tail off but I don't remember him ever having a nightmare game. A level above Nichols - he's the one we should move on to free up wages ! In an ideal world for me they would both be moved on. You’re player knowledge is vast. But I do get the impression you’d turf most out each season. Generally, I think there is something to working with what you have. Rory won’t let us down. Sometimes a little help is all that’s needed. If you fail your driving test, you try again. Very few start a job with the same skill as when they leave it. Rory is not a million miles off. You motivate people through support. For me everyone has a value and every player is improvable. We don’t have 11 Messi’s. But the essence of “in an ideal world” doesn’t sit so well with me. If he left, we’d need something better, saw many worse against us last season.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jun 13, 2018 19:36:25 GMT
In an ideal world for me they would both be moved on. You’re player knowledge is vast. But I do get the impression you’d turf most out each season. Generally, I think there is something to working with what you have. Rory won’t let us down. Sometimes a little help is all that’s needed. If you fail your driving test, you try again. Very few start a job with the same skill as when they leave it. Rory is not a million miles off. You motivate people through support. For me everyone has a value and every player is improvable. We don’t have 11 Messi’s. But the essence of “in an ideal world” doesn’t sit so well with me. If he left, we’d need something better, saw many worse against us last season. I wouldn't turf most out each season at all, just ones that have underperformed or ones I feel we could improve upon. Gaffney and Nichols certainly fall under that category for me. If you don't think we can get better than strikers who scored 7 goals and 2 goals respectively the previous season, then I'd have to respectfully disagree. Gaffney is 28 and had two seasons at this level and managed 13 goals in total. I don't see much more improvement in him, or enough to keep him on and therefore would thank him for his efforts and move him on. It's a game of opinions and that is mine.
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Post by rosssgb on Jun 13, 2018 20:00:58 GMT
You’re player knowledge is vast. But I do get the impression you’d turf most out each season. Generally, I think there is something to working with what you have. Rory won’t let us down.. Gaffney is 28 and had two seasons at this level and managed 13 goals in total. I don't see much more improvement in him, or enough to keep him on and therefore would thank him for his efforts and move him on. It's a game of opinions and that is mine. For me, people get far too attached to players. ^ This simple fact above proves that if we want to aim for the playoffs or push on we need better. It’s nothing personal against Gaffney who’s been a great servant to the club. Saying someone isn’t at a certain level isn’t a personal dig - accepting mediocrity will ultimately lead to stagnation and relegation.
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Post by cabazeldegas on Jun 13, 2018 20:10:19 GMT
But then we as fans demand 100% loyalty from the players and if they dare move on to someone we don't like or for less than £10million then they are mercenary bastards and the management is useless in their transfer dealings...
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Post by mattgashead on Jun 13, 2018 20:19:48 GMT
But then we as fans demand 100% loyalty from the players and if they dare move on to someone we don't like or for less than £10million then they are mercenary bastards and the management is useless in their transfer dealings... Well if their a snake and they slither off to the s**t then yeah they are a mercenary bastard
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Post by madgas on Jun 13, 2018 20:47:37 GMT
You’re player knowledge is vast. But I do get the impression you’d turf most out each season. Generally, I think there is something to working with what you have. Rory won’t let us down. Sometimes a little help is all that’s needed. If you fail your driving test, you try again. Very few start a job with the same skill as when they leave it. Rory is not a million miles off. You motivate people through support. For me everyone has a value and every player is improvable. We don’t have 11 Messi’s. But the essence of “in an ideal world” doesn’t sit so well with me. If he left, we’d need something better, saw many worse against us last season. I wouldn't turf most out each season at all, just ones that have underperformed or ones I feel we could improve upon. Gaffney and Nichols certainly fall under that category for me. If you don't think we can get better than strikers who scored 7 goals and 2 goals respectively the previous season, then I'd have to respectfully disagree. Gaffney is 28 and had two seasons at this level and managed 13 goals in total. I don't see much more improvement in him, or enough to keep him on and therefore would thank him for his efforts and move him on. It's a game of opinions and that is mine. Fair, I think I’m picking over small bits. But the notion of “in an ideal world those are two are moved on” is what irked me. Kinda implied nothing is better than them. If we got Telford- I’d concede it would be concening to start the season with the same 4.
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Post by socrates on Jun 13, 2018 21:07:09 GMT
Well, I hope he stays. Decent player who links play well and whilst he lost some form in the second half of the season, he's shown previously that he does have goals in him. He may not be the 20 goal striker everyone wants, but we'll do very well to find one of those with our meagre resources. Until we do, I say keep him, as he still has plenty to offer this team. Agreed I’d keep him too. He didn’t start that many games last season but still got a fair few goals. He’s not an impact sub he’s not that kind of player but when he starts home games 9 times out of ten he’s decent. Anyone got the stats goals to mins ratio for last season? Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not that far behind Ellis and obviously Mies ahead of Nichols.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 21:20:22 GMT
I wouldn't turf most out each season at all, just ones that have underperformed or ones I feel we could improve upon. Gaffney and Nichols certainly fall under that category for me. If you don't think we can get better than strikers who scored 7 goals and 2 goals respectively the previous season, then I'd have to respectfully disagree. Gaffney is 28 and had two seasons at this level and managed 13 goals in total. I don't see much more improvement in him, or enough to keep him on and therefore would thank him for his efforts and move him on. It's a game of opinions and that is mine. Fair, I think I’m picking over small bits. But the notion of “in an ideal world those are two are moved on” is what irked me. Kinda implied nothing is better than them. If we got Telford- I’d concede it would be concening to start the season with the same 4. That's an interesting thought. If we started the season with Harrison, Gaffney, Nichols and Telford would it be such a bad thing? Don't get me wrong. I want to see a new striker, possibly two if we don't get Telford, but those four helped us to a decent tally of goals last season. I accept that Bodin also contributed a dozen or so, but then Gaffney, Telford and Nichols would all be expected to score more than they did last season which you'd think could balance that out.
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Post by bluestone on Jun 13, 2018 21:28:34 GMT
Personally I have to feel a bit for Rory.
It seems to me he came out of the last preseason firing on all cylinders and looked to be in some really good form that may have seen him rack up a decent goal tally throughout the season.
Despite this he was not given a chance to hold down a regular starting place due to the fact that we paid a hefty fee for Nichols and DC presumably wanted to give his new man an opportunity to shine.
In addition who would have expected Ellis to have one of his best seasons ever, he had to be one of the first names on the team sheet.
Rory's confidence then seemed to drop off as the season went on.
In hindsight I wish we'd have given more of an opportunity to Rory rather than Nichols!
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Post by madgas on Jun 13, 2018 21:31:06 GMT
Gaffney is 28 and had two seasons at this level and managed 13 goals in total. I don't see much more improvement in him, or enough to keep him on and therefore would thank him for his efforts and move him on. It's a game of opinions and that is mine. For me, people get far too attached to players. ^ This simple fact above proves that if we want to aim for the playoffs or push on we need better. It’s nothing personal against Gaffney who’s been a great servant to the club. Saying someone isn’t at a certain level isn’t a personal dig - accepting mediocrity will ultimately lead to stagnation and relegation. I agree. And D.C. has said that there can’t be room for sentiment. It’s a relentless task pushing this club forward. It’s more a pragmatic point of view though, ideally we’d have 4 world class forwards. To an extent we need to work with what we have. Neither should be written off yet, but if Ronaldo was available would I swap? Of course. But there isn’t always the plethora of alternatives that we’d like to think. In the original first post of the wishlist- there are 8 or so strikers that have been listed. Of these: Conor McAleny: doesn’t look a huge upgrade at the moment. Young, could develop. Bradley Fewster: playing non league. Struggled for goals (per wiki) Chris Maguire: presumably the relegated bury player? George Hirst: still getting rave reviews at youth football, but appears unlikely on a permanent. Kyle Lafferty: scored lots for hearts in Scotland. Probably would have been good. David Ball: playing in quite a few more games than Gaffers scored 2 more goals. Ivan Toney: good player, a loanee, solid seasons but yet to set the division alight. Irish People Madden: feel he’s on decline and I prefer Gaffney. James Collins: great season in league 2. I appreciate pirate has got many right. But (for me) you don’t just twist on every Gaffney, if there are clear definite upgrades- of course. But the dice don’t always need rolling, sometimes hard work is better. I would concede that starting the season with same four (assuming Telford returns) would be odd. We’re certainly going to do business at the top end of pitch and I think it’s the biggest decision DC will make- either way. Please note: really not a dig at pirates contributions, he’s a fantastic poster and Im always interested in what he has to say, and the wish list is great. I’ll often ask his opinion on a player. More a word of caution. Probably should of just said: grass isn’t always greener but sometimes it is.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jun 13, 2018 21:32:12 GMT
I don't honestly see Harrison & Gaffney would work as a partnership, even if they did have their odd games where they looked good together.
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 13, 2018 21:33:31 GMT
If we have real aspirations to make the top six then we need to bring in a new striker at least. But I’d be happy to keep Rory as back up and to be in the squad. My moan wasn’t that he might leave, though it would be sad to see him go, it was the lack of respect shown to a player who deserved it. Rory won’t let us down but he probably won’t push us into the top six. At the moment we have three strikers and we will need at least one more and perhaps two. And if the 4th striker was Telford I’d be very surprised because I’d have thought he would have signed by now, but I guess time will tell. UTG!
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Post by markczgas on Jun 13, 2018 21:35:10 GMT
Personally I have to feel a bit for Rory. It seems to me he came out of the last preseason firing on all cylinders and looked to be in some really good form that may have seen him rack up a decent goal tally throughout the season. Despite this he was not given a chance to hold down a regular starting place due to the fact that we paid a hefty fee for Nichols and DC presumably wanted to give his new man an opportunity to shine. In addition who would have expected Ellis to have one of his best seasons ever, he had to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Rory's confidence then seemed to drop off as the season went on. In hindsight I wish we'd have given more of an opportunity to Rory rather than Nichols! spot on.
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Post by markczgas on Jun 13, 2018 21:37:40 GMT
I don't honestly see Harrison & Gaffney would work as a partnership, even if they did have their odd games where they looked good together. but they were the best partnership last season - not great but the best we saw !?
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jun 13, 2018 22:00:25 GMT
For me, people get far too attached to players. ^ This simple fact above proves that if we want to aim for the playoffs or push on we need better. It’s nothing personal against Gaffney who’s been a great servant to the club. Saying someone isn’t at a certain level isn’t a personal dig - accepting mediocrity will ultimately lead to stagnation and relegation. In the original first post of the wishlist- there are 8 or so strikers that have been listed. Of these: Conor McAleny: doesn’t look a huge upgrade at the moment. Young, could develop. Bradley Fewster: playing non league. Struggled for goals (per wiki) Chris Maguire: presumably the relegated bury player? George Hirst: still getting rave reviews at youth football, but appears unlikely on a permanent. Kyle Lafferty: scored lots for hearts in Scotland. Probably would have been good. David Ball: playing more games than Gaffers scored 1 more goal. Ivan Toney: good player, a loanee, solid seasons but yet to set the division alight. Irish People Madden: feel he’s in decline, only the one more goal than Gaffers. Has traditionally been a pen taker (whether true now, I don’t know) James Collins: great season in league 2. And I still stand by those suggestions and would have them all over Gaffney and Nichols, regardless of their stats. McAleny is a good player who struggled with injury at the start of the season and I bet he scores more than Gaffney and Nichols individually next season. Fewster made a bad decision moving to a non-league club and struggled for goals and game time. Having watched him score goals in the past I still think he could score goals at our level. He would've been one I wanted to bring in as a work in progress. Maguire can play as an attacking midfielder and a wider role and I felt would've suited the way we play and I would backed him with our setup to score more than Nichols managed. Hirst was never meant as a permanent. David Ball is an intelligent player and another one who would have suited our system coming in from a wider role and I reckon he would've scored more playing for us. Madden needed a fresh start and should have moved on last summer. Since joining Fleetwood he has scored 6 goals in 17 starts and I bet he scores more than Gaffney and Nichols individually next season. Toney scored 12 from 23 starts last season which is more goals than Gaffney and Nichols combined.
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Post by madgas on Jun 13, 2018 22:08:47 GMT
Fair, I think I’m picking over small bits. But the notion of “in an ideal world those are two are moved on” is what irked me. Kinda implied nothing is better than them. If we got Telford- I’d concede it would be concening to start the season with the same 4. That's an interesting thought. If we started the season with Harrison, Gaffney, Nichols and Telford would it be such a bad thing? Don't get me wrong. I want to see a new striker, possibly two if we don't get Telford, but those four helped us to a decent tally of goals last season. I accept that Bodin also contributed a dozen or so, but then Gaffney, Telford and Nichols would all be expected to score more than they did last season which you'd think could balance that out. Such a bad thing? I think the point is, we should be always aiming for the best thing not avoidance of “bad things”. Is it the best thing? It’s a hard call. Imo, it’s a bit of lottery. But that doesn’t rule out trying.
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Post by socrates on Jun 13, 2018 22:10:51 GMT
Personally I have to feel a bit for Rory. It seems to me he came out of the last preseason firing on all cylinders and looked to be in some really good form that may have seen him rack up a decent goal tally throughout the season. Despite this he was not given a chance to hold down a regular starting place due to the fact that we paid a hefty fee for Nichols and DC presumably wanted to give his new man an opportunity to shine. In addition who would have expected Ellis to have one of his best seasons ever, he had to be one of the first names on the team sheet. Rory's confidence then seemed to drop off as the season went on. In hindsight I wish we'd have given more of an opportunity to Rory rather than Nichols! A combination of us losing Taylor and Nichols signing has screwed him I think. He was the perfect partner for Taylor in a 4-4-2 and so many of Taylor’s great performances and goals were down to Gafney too but in a 4-3-3 which we mostly played last season it’s hard to pick a position for him. Really the only striker that formation suits is Ellis. For the wide front men you need Bodin/ Bennet types and Gaf nor Nichols fit that role. I think sercombe would he’s so dangerous going forward with the ball at his feet but we mostly play him more central. DC knows what he’s doing ( yes he really does Midland) so I trust him to get it mostly right he usually does his success proves most of his signings have been good.
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Post by madgas on Jun 13, 2018 22:18:58 GMT
In the original first post of the wishlist- there are 8 or so strikers that have been listed. Of these: Conor McAleny: doesn’t look a huge upgrade at the moment. Young, could develop. Bradley Fewster: playing non league. Struggled for goals (per wiki) Chris Maguire: presumably the relegated bury player? George Hirst: still getting rave reviews at youth football, but appears unlikely on a permanent. Kyle Lafferty: scored lots for hearts in Scotland. Probably would have been good. David Ball: playing more games than Gaffers scored 1 more goal. Ivan Toney: good player, a loanee, solid seasons but yet to set the division alight. Irish People Madden: feel he’s in decline, only the one more goal than Gaffers. Has traditionally been a pen taker (whether true now, I don’t know) James Collins: great season in league 2. And I still stand by those suggestions and would have them all over Gaffney and Nichols, regardless of their stats. McAleny is a good player who struggled with injury at the start of the season and I bet he scores more than Gaffney and Nichols individually next season. Fewster made a bad decision moving to a non-league club and struggled for goals and game time. Having watched him score goals in the past I still think he could score goals at our level. He would've been one I wanted to bring in as a work in progress. Maguire can play as an attacking midfielder and a wider role and I felt would've suited the way we play and I would backed him with our setup to score more than Nichols managed. Hirst was never meant as a permanent. David Ball is an intelligent player and another one who would have suited our system coming in from a wider role and I reckon he would've scored more playing for us. Madden needed a fresh start and should have moved on last summer. Since joining Fleetwood he has scored 6 goals in 17 starts and I bet he scores more than Gaffney and Nichols individually next season. Toney scored 12 from 23 starts last season which is more goals than Gaffney and Nichols combined. As I said, not a critique. And (me) comparing some of those strikers to our current squad- is a little Apple and oranges. Ie Hurst being a loanee, Fewster is more of poacher than either two, as you say, Maguire is midfield/ striker. So I get the comparisons I make are clumsy. And your lists aren’t whose better player than x, y or z. They are lists of good players that may potentially be “getable”, (or at least that’s how I understand them) Fair enough, if you still think they would have been good. As you say it’s points of view. But I don’t think (currently) were kicking ourselves for missing out on those ones.
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