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Post by midlandgas213 on Aug 29, 2018 8:55:44 GMT
I don't go to many away matches,but am going to Shrewsbury Saturday. Hoping for Payne/Rodman to get a goal against their old team. And Bonham in goal of course. Am going because I have never been to Shrewsbury. Bring your own weetabix then |
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Post by titchthephot on Aug 29, 2018 10:22:12 GMT
Sorry to all the Craig disparagers but it is completely wrong to blame Lockyer or Craig for any of the goals tonight. The first was down to James Clarke being roasted by the best player on the pitch and Smith possibly not doing as well as he might have. The second was just rank bad goalkeeping in letting a soft shot squirm under him. The third was allowing a cross to come in unchallenged (again) and then Smith getting in front of Broadbent. We played some really good stuff tonight, had more possession and created more chances than they did. However, we clearly can't defend (and that's as a team rather than one or two individuals) and we can't score goals. I hope that DC plays Bonham on Saturday too, as he must be better than Smith. But here's the uncomfortable truth. Gasheads are not exactly performing either at the moment. Singing "how sh*t must you be, we've scored a goal" is an example of crap support and does NOTHING to help a side clearly struggling for confidence. Night. Spot on!! I also watched Craig and when QPR sent a high ball up front he didn't just head it back (usually these headers just go straight back to the opposition ) he killed the ball and either nodded it sideways to another defender or controlled it himself and passed it out. I personally thought he was one of our better players last night. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 11:18:54 GMT
Sorry to all the Craig disparagers but it is completely wrong to blame Lockyer or Craig for any of the goals tonight. The first was down to James Clarke being roasted by the best player on the pitch and Smith possibly not doing as well as he might have. The second was just rank bad goalkeeping in letting a soft shot squirm under him. The third was allowing a cross to come in unchallenged (again) and then Smith getting in front of Broadbent. We played some really good stuff tonight, had more possession and created more chances than they did. However, we clearly can't defend (and that's as a team rather than one or two individuals) and we can't score goals. I hope that DC plays Bonham on Saturday too, as he must be better than Smith. But here's the uncomfortable truth. Gasheads are not exactly performing either at the moment. Singing "how sh*t must you be, we've scored a goal" is an example of crap support and does NOTHING to help a side clearly struggling for confidence. Night. Spot on!! I also watched Craig and when QPR sent a high ball up front he didn't just head it back (usually these headers just go straight back to the opposition ) he killed the ball and either nodded it sideways to another defender or controlled it himself and passed it out. I personally thought he was one of our better players last night. The problem though is that doesn't fit with some peoples' agendas. |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 29, 2018 11:24:24 GMT
Spot on!! I also watched Craig and when QPR sent a high ball up front he didn't just head it back (usually these headers just go straight back to the opposition ) he killed the ball and either nodded it sideways to another defender or controlled it himself and passed it out. I personally thought he was one of our better players last night. The problem though is that doesn't fit with some peoples' agendas.
Easy to point out the odd game but he has been responsible for plenty of the oppositions goals or chances since he came here.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 29, 2018 11:44:42 GMT
Spot on!! I also watched Craig and when QPR sent a high ball up front he didn't just head it back (usually these headers just go straight back to the opposition ) he killed the ball and either nodded it sideways to another defender or controlled it himself and passed it out. I personally thought he was one of our better players last night. The problem though is that doesn't fit with some peoples' agendas. My only agenda is for us to have some organisation and leadership at the back. None of our back 4 (or 5) are giving us that. |
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Post by axegas on Aug 29, 2018 11:48:53 GMT
The problem though is that doesn't fit with some peoples' agendas.
Easy to point out the odd game but he has been responsible for plenty of the oppositions goals or chances since he came here.
Not as many as Lockyer has and he doesn’t get half as much criticism as Craig has despite being a Welsh international and our captain. Last season Craig came in at January and almost immediately we started conceding less goals, we finished in a respectable position because of it. The problem is Craig and Lockyer are a less than ideal partnership. Both are intelligent players but they lack height and strength, Lockyer is held down by the burden of captaincy and Craig by his lack of pace. If we bring in a 6ft 3 centre back who can stop the defence being bullied through the centre and cut out the amount of set pieces we concede, Craig and Lockyer will prove to be competent defenders for this level. A loanee CB with the right attributes and our two main fullbacks returning will completely turn us around defensively. |
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Post by kampucheagas on Aug 29, 2018 11:50:44 GMT
The problem though is that doesn't fit with some peoples' agendas.
Easy to point out the odd game but he has been responsible for plenty of the oppositions goals or chances since he came here.
I thought Craig was good last night. ANY defender facing that many crosses with a flapping keeper behind him would struggle. He's certainly a better CB than LB! |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 29, 2018 11:55:10 GMT
Easy to point out the odd game but he has been responsible for plenty of the oppositions goals or chances since he came here.
Not as many as Lockyer has and he doesn’t get half as much criticism as Craig has despite being a Welsh international and our captain. Last season Craig came in at January and almost immediately we started conceding less goals, we finished in a respectable position because of it. The problem is Craig and Lockyer are a less than ideal partnership. Both are intelligent players but they lack height and strength, Lockyer is held down by the burden of captaincy and Craig by his lack of pace. If we bring in a 6ft 3 centre back who can stop the defence being bullied through the centre and cut out the amount of set pieces we concede, Craig and Lockyer will prove to be competent defenders for this level. A loanee CB with the right attributes and our two main fullbacks returning will completely turn us around defensively.
I've been saying for a while now that we should have sold Lockyer (if there was interest) while his stock was high) and replaced the whole back 4. None of them are capable of pushing us into a play off place imo, not one. I find it amusing how DC will like a right and left footed CB but has no hesitation to play a player out of position on his wrong side. Barmy.
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Post by baggins on Aug 29, 2018 12:16:10 GMT
Not as many as Lockyer has and he doesn’t get half as much criticism as Craig has despite being a Welsh international and our captain. Last season Craig came in at January and almost immediately we started conceding less goals, we finished in a respectable position because of it. The problem is Craig and Lockyer are a less than ideal partnership. Both are intelligent players but they lack height and strength, Lockyer is held down by the burden of captaincy and Craig by his lack of pace. If we bring in a 6ft 3 centre back who can stop the defence being bullied through the centre and cut out the amount of set pieces we concede, Craig and Lockyer will prove to be competent defenders for this level. A loanee CB with the right attributes and our two main fullbacks returning will completely turn us around defensively.
I've been saying for a while now that we should have sold Lockyer (if there was interest) while his stock was high) and replaced the whole back 4. None of them are capable of pushing us into a play off place imo, not one. I find it amusing how DC will like a right and left footed CB but has no hesitation to play a player out of position on his wrong side. Barmy.
Pretty sure, no matter how high his "stock" was it wouldn't have brought in an entire back 4. Decent back 4 these days? £2 mil? At the least. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 29, 2018 12:25:32 GMT
Easy to point out the odd game but he has been responsible for plenty of the oppositions goals or chances since he came here.
Not as many as Lockyer has and he doesn’t get half as much criticism as Craig has despite being a Welsh international and our captain. Last season Craig came in at January and almost immediately we started conceding less goals, we finished in a respectable position because of it. The problem is Craig and Lockyer are a less than ideal partnership. Both are intelligent players but they lack height and strength, Lockyer is held down by the burden of captaincy and Craig by his lack of pace. If we bring in a 6ft 3 centre back who can stop the defence being bullied through the centre and cut out the amount of set pieces we concede, Craig and Lockyer will prove to be competent defenders for this level. A loanee CB with the right attributes and our two main fullbacks returning will completely turn us around defensively. That's simply not true. We didn't suddenly stop letting in goals when Craig came in at all. Our goals conceeded stats with him in the team barely changed (stats were posted here at the time). We went from something like 1.6 goals a game to 1.4 a game. The only argument for improvement at the back last season was that in theory we played some of the better teams during the run in. |
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Aug 29, 2018 12:29:35 GMT
Not as many as Lockyer has and he doesn’t get half as much criticism as Craig has despite being a Welsh international and our captain. Last season Craig came in at January and almost immediately we started conceding less goals, we finished in a respectable position because of it. The problem is Craig and Lockyer are a less than ideal partnership. Both are intelligent players but they lack height and strength, Lockyer is held down by the burden of captaincy and Craig by his lack of pace. If we bring in a 6ft 3 centre back who can stop the defence being bullied through the centre and cut out the amount of set pieces we concede, Craig and Lockyer will prove to be competent defenders for this level. A loanee CB with the right attributes and our two main fullbacks returning will completely turn us around defensively. That's simply not true. We didn't suddenly stop letting in goals when Craig came in at all. Our goals conceeded stats with him in the team barely changed (stats were posted here at the time). We went from something like 1.6 goals a game to 1.4 a game. The only argument for improvement at the back last season was that in theory we played some of the better teams during the run in. Broadbent was playing great just before Craig come in and he was dropped. Never been the same since. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 29, 2018 12:33:45 GMT
That's simply not true. We didn't suddenly stop letting in goals when Craig came in at all. Our goals conceeded stats with him in the team barely changed (stats were posted here at the time). We went from something like 1.6 goals a game to 1.4 a game. The only argument for improvement at the back last season was that in theory we played some of the better teams during the run in. Broadbent was playing great just before Craig come in and he was dropped. Never been the same since. He was, but pre Craig our defence was poor all season and in desperate need of some leadership. I can totally understand why we tried to sign a so called experienced head at the back. |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 29, 2018 12:34:55 GMT
I've been saying for a while now that we should have sold Lockyer (if there was interest) while his stock was high) and replaced the whole back 4. None of them are capable of pushing us into a play off place imo, not one. I find it amusing how DC will like a right and left footed CB but has no hesitation to play a player out of position on his wrong side. Barmy.
Pretty sure, no matter how high his "stock" was it wouldn't have brought in an entire back 4. Decent back 4 these days? £2 mil? At the least.
I didn't say the sale of Lockyer would fund a whole new back 4 but as the most sellable asset it would have contributed more to it.
Why £2m for a new back 4 anyway? Plenty of better players were/are available for a hell of a lot less, some even on a free.
Should have concentrated on the above instead of signing more midfielders we don't really need and players who would be injured until well into autumn
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Aug 29, 2018 12:41:49 GMT
Pretty sure, no matter how high his "stock" was it wouldn't have brought in an entire back 4. Decent back 4 these days? £2 mil? At the least.
Why £2m for a new back 4 anyway? Plenty of better players were/are available for a hell of a lot less, some even on a free.
Should have concentrated on the above instead of signing more midfielders we don't really need and players who would be injured until well into autumn
There are still decent ones available on a free. The likes of Matt Mills in this country and Ricardo Bagadur abroad spring to mind. |
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Post by baggins on Aug 29, 2018 12:43:52 GMT
Pretty sure, no matter how high his "stock" was it wouldn't have brought in an entire back 4. Decent back 4 these days? £2 mil? At the least.
I didn't say the sale of Lockyer would fund a whole new back 4 but as the most sellable asset it would have contributed more to it.
Why £2m for a new back 4 anyway? Plenty of better players were/are available for a hell of a lot less, some even on a free.
Should have concentrated on the above instead of signing more midfielders we don't really need and players who would be injured until well into autumn
Ok, interpreted wrong. But I have to ask, where would this new back 4 come from? Free? Lower leagues? Sure they're up to it? |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 29, 2018 12:53:58 GMT
I didn't say the sale of Lockyer would fund a whole new back 4 but as the most sellable asset it would have contributed more to it.
Why £2m for a new back 4 anyway? Plenty of better players were/are available for a hell of a lot less, some even on a free.
Should have concentrated on the above instead of signing more midfielders we don't really need and players who would be injured until well into autumn
Ok, interpreted wrong. But I have to ask, where would this new back 4 come from? Free? Lower leagues? Sure they're up to it?
Anywhere.
Last night was my first 'live' Rovers match of the season (the rest i've seen on ifollow) and some of the defending was akin to what i've seen on the downs, yet not unfamiliar...
It cant be too hard to improve it but apart from the lad from Hudds we were obviously happy with the same sort of thing last season?
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Post by gaelgas on Aug 29, 2018 12:58:03 GMT
For me a lot of our problems at the back stem from what looks like a total lack of confidence in the keeper, meaning that the centre backs in particular are trying to do or anticipate things they should not have to because they have no confidence in the keeper. That more often than not leads them to be out of position or make mistakes.
I'm not saying that is our only problem at the back though, hopefully if Holmes-Dennis ever gets fit and Kelly continues to improve and Leadbitter can get back some of the form he had last season before he got injured, our defence will stop leaking appalling goals like last night. Let's hope Bonham is as good as Lumley was, and that DC actually plays him.
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Post by axegas on Aug 29, 2018 13:02:24 GMT
Not as many as Lockyer has and he doesn’t get half as much criticism as Craig has despite being a Welsh international and our captain. Last season Craig came in at January and almost immediately we started conceding less goals, we finished in a respectable position because of it. The problem is Craig and Lockyer are a less than ideal partnership. Both are intelligent players but they lack height and strength, Lockyer is held down by the burden of captaincy and Craig by his lack of pace. If we bring in a 6ft 3 centre back who can stop the defence being bullied through the centre and cut out the amount of set pieces we concede, Craig and Lockyer will prove to be competent defenders for this level. A loanee CB with the right attributes and our two main fullbacks returning will completely turn us around defensively. That's simply not true. We didn't suddenly stop letting in goals when Craig came in at all. Our goals conceeded stats with him in the team barely changed (stats were posted here at the time). We went from something like 1.6 goals a game to 1.4 a game. The only argument for improvement at the back last season was that in theory we played some of the better teams during the run in. Without Tony Craig in the side last season we conceded 59 goals in 36 games in all competitions that works out at 1.63 goals conceded every game. With Tony Craig in the team we conceded 21 goals in 17 games that works out at 1.23 goals every match. This might not seem that much to you but considering we drew 9 games in the second half of the season and had many narrow wins, that extra chance of us conceding another goal every match without Craig would have cost us many points. We may have even found ourselves in a relegation battle, he made all the difference. That said, I don’t particularly think he is the way forward as our form this season shows but it isn’t “simply untrue” to suggest he has made an impact after signing him, DC has even said this himself. |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Aug 29, 2018 13:03:21 GMT
Ok, interpreted wrong. But I have to ask, where would this new back 4 come from? Free? Lower leagues? Sure they're up to it?
Anywhere.
Last night was my first 'live' Rovers match of the season (the rest i've seen on ifollow) and some of the defending was akin to what i've seen on the downs, yet not unfamiliar...
It cant be too hard to improve it but apart from the lad from Hudds we were obviously happy with the same sort of thing last season?
There are lads in National League South or lower that could defend better than we have managed. Fraser Horsfall, Kieran Fenton, Ben O'Hanlon, James Yates and Callam Jones. |
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 29, 2018 13:05:06 GMT
Anywhere.
Last night was my first 'live' Rovers match of the season (the rest i've seen on ifollow) and some of the defending was akin to what i've seen on the downs, yet not unfamiliar...
It cant be too hard to improve it but apart from the lad from Hudds we were obviously happy with the same sort of thing last season?
There are lads in National League South or lower than the that could defend better than we have managed. Fraser Horsfall, Kieran Fenton, Ben O'Hanlon, James Yates and Callam Jones.
Starting to think I was born in the wrong era as I was a CB who often played LB (even though I am right footed)!!
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