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Post by baggins on Apr 24, 2019 10:31:57 GMT
I think this is the concern for next season. Statistically, it's likely that JCH will be the 10-15 goal a season striker rather than the 20-25 one that his form since he came would suggest. Don't get me wrong. He has been brilliant for us and without his wordie goals at Plymouth and Gillingam alone, we'd three points worse off already. But there's nothing to suggest that this is any more than just a rich vein of form. The good side of that is that he is more than likely going to be a Rovers player next year as no-one us likely to risk big money on him. If he does continue to score regularly until January, it may be a different story. So, if JCH goals dry up, who will get them next season? I would imagine that Jak will go back and Reilly will have another year on his contract (can't imagine he will have uprooted for a one year deal). Moore is an unknown quantity so anything he contributes will be a bonus. So, that leaves us with JCH, Reilly, Nichols and Moore. I like a lot about Nichols as a footballer but we do need a striker who can score goals and for that reason alone, it's hard to see him being retained as one of the four strikers we surely need. I would bet my house that he will not be here next season You've got a house? Posh git.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 24, 2019 10:39:12 GMT
I think this is the concern for next season. Statistically, it's likely that JCH will be the 10-15 goal a season striker rather than the 20-25 one that his form since he came would suggest. Don't get me wrong. He has been brilliant for us and without his wordie goals at Plymouth and Gillingam alone, we'd three points worse off already. But there's nothing to suggest that this is any more than just a rich vein of form. The good side of that is that he is more than likely going to be a Rovers player next year as no-one us likely to risk big money on him. If he does continue to score regularly until January, it may be a different story. So, if JCH goals dry up, who will get them next season? I would imagine that Jak will go back and Reilly will have another year on his contract (can't imagine he will have uprooted for a one year deal). Moore is an unknown quantity so anything he contributes will be a bonus. So, that leaves us with JCH, Reilly, Nichols and Moore. I like a lot about Nichols as a footballer but we do need a striker who can score goals and for that reason alone, it's hard to see him being retained as one of the four strikers we surely need. I would bet my house that he will not be here next season Do you know what GC's views are on the player as he was only singing his praises after the transfer window closed, I know it could just be BS but like DC always seems to start him in home games.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Apr 24, 2019 10:42:53 GMT
I would bet my house that he will not be here next season Do you know what GC's views are on the player as he was only singing his praises after the transfer window closed, I know it could just be BS but like DC always seems to start him in home games. Coughlan: “Listen, I was very close to grabbing Tom Nichols on the 31st of December and locking him up for a month and letting him out on the 1st of February but I didn’t, I played him last week, but I didn’t want to. I played him tonight but I didn’t want to, because good players will be wanted and there are many a scout up in the stands looking at Tom Nichols. “I said it, and I was consistent with Tom, there was no chance he was going anywhere. "There is no way I am going to let a quality player like Tommy Nichols go."
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 24, 2019 10:47:59 GMT
I would bet my house that he will not be here next season Do you know what GC's views are on the player as he was only singing his praises after the transfer window closed, I know it could just be BS but like DC always seems to start him in home games. Sprry I thought the post I replied to was talking about JCH next season hence my I dont think he will be here. TN well I think he will be here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 10:53:17 GMT
I would bet my house that he will not be here next season You've got a house? Posh git. I live in a egg box.
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Post by roosty56 on Apr 24, 2019 11:03:25 GMT
IMO the man was signed to score goals,it’s clearl that has not been successful to say the least,so lets try to play him as last man,well he dosnt play well playing off the last man shoulder,so lets try to playing him wide,but dosnt look across the line and gets caught offside so many times its frightening,so whats left? Playing him on tip of a diamond he is good with his feet he can bring in players around him,then if that fails then he has to be let go,
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Post by Blueside on Apr 24, 2019 11:06:36 GMT
Well as someone said one day, "you can do owt with statistics, owt you like"... I think judging two matches (Jak) and four matches (Reilly) against 75 matches is unfair. Basically, no one will be given the patience or indulgence that TN has enjoyed. The thread is topical to Tom Nichols. He played poorly v Rochdale, amongst others. In my opinion. So I accept he has assisted a few goals this season, scored two league goals in 75 appearances, was extremely unlucky to be not more as his shot v Plymouth looked over the line, but.....his overall contribution for being a striker is not good enough or acceptable for the standard that's required to see us progress to the top half of the division. It's woeful. And I think I'm being kind. Hes judging Jaks 2 matches and Reillys 4 matches with Tom's 8 matches with JCH though? I'm glad someone brought this up as I was going to stick up for TN by asking when the last time JCH scored when TN wasn't on the pitch. turns out it was only v Bradford, and the overall stat isn't as good as I thought it was going to be. I've never gone to the trouble of doing stats before - always relied on someone else doing it, but although still quite a good outcome, it really didn't turn out as good for TN as I thought it would - . WE CAN/MUST DO BETTER.
Numbers are all JCH's goals since he arrived (all league games listed below); "yes" "no" is if TN was on the pitch at the time - not necessarily an assist. 7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch - I thought it was higher so my defence of TN is revoked.
Away Southend no goals (only 15 mins together JCH came on at 59 mins) Home Shrews no goals (not together at all JCH came on at 50 mins) Away Portsmouth 1 no (pen) Home Sunderland no goals (not played together at all) Home Blackpool 3 yes Away Scunny 1 yes Away Gillingham 1 yes Home Charlton no goals Away Argyle 1 no (Nichols off before JCH scored) Away Donny 1 no (pen) Home Luton 1 y Away Coventry No goals (not played together) Home Bradford 1 no, 1 yes A Wimbledon no goals (not played together) H Rochdale no goals
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 11:09:09 GMT
I think this is the concern for next season. Statistically, it's likely that JCH will be the 10-15 goal a season striker rather than the 20-25 one that his form since he came would suggest. Don't get me wrong. He has been brilliant for us and without his wordie goals at Plymouth and Gillingam alone, we'd three points worse off already. But there's nothing to suggest that this is any more than just a rich vein of form. The good side of that is that he is more than likely going to be a Rovers player next year as no-one us likely to risk big money on him. If he does continue to score regularly until January, it may be a different story. So, if JCH goals dry up, who will get them next season? I would imagine that Jak will go back and Reilly will have another year on his contract (can't imagine he will have uprooted for a one year deal). Moore is an unknown quantity so anything he contributes will be a bonus. So, that leaves us with JCH, Reilly, Nichols and Moore. I like a lot about Nichols as a footballer but we do need a striker who can score goals and for that reason alone, it's hard to see him being retained as one of the four strikers we surely need. I would bet my house that he will not be here next season Nichols or JCH?
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Post by baggins on Apr 24, 2019 11:21:16 GMT
You've got a house? Posh git. I live in a egg box. As you should.
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Post by stapletongas on Apr 24, 2019 11:23:30 GMT
Tom Nicholls being described as “so bad it’s scary” is overblown exaggeration, Bananaman is back and true to form.
TN is a talented professional footballer, that doesn’t happen if you’re “so bad it’s scary”.
TN’s issue is not contributing with goals, however he has been responsible for assists.
Criticism is warranted, but at least make it constructive and measured.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 24, 2019 12:13:21 GMT
You've got a house? Posh git. I live in a cricket box. Fixed that for you.
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Post by baggins on Apr 24, 2019 12:13:59 GMT
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 24, 2019 12:23:43 GMT
"7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch " so he's only scored 4 w/o him being on the pitch, surely that supports the view that our best striker partnership is JCH/TN, you could argue TN gets more game time than GR/AJ but if we can't we trust GC to pick the correct players what the hell can we trust him to do! Looking at those starts another way if TN starts on Saturday then JCN is almost twice as likely to score than if he doesn't.
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Post by baggins on Apr 24, 2019 12:29:11 GMT
"7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch " so he's only scored 4 w/o him being on the pitch, surely that supports the view that our best striker partnership is JCH/TN, you could argue TN gets more game time than GR/AJ but if we can't we trust GC to pick the correct players what the hell can we trust him to do! Looking at those starts another way if TN starts on Saturday then JCN is almost twice as likely to score than if he doesn't. You've just put an argument forward against yourself. If either GR or AJ had started with JCH as often, then who knows where we'd be. Simple fact is, Nichols is simply not good enough. He doesn't score. That's his job description, and he's failed. For 18 months. Saying that, he'll probably score Saturday and keep us up.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 24, 2019 12:30:16 GMT
"7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch " so he's only scored 4 w/o him being on the pitch, surely that supports the view that our best striker partnership is JCH/TN, you could argue TN gets more game time than GR/AJ but if we can't we trust GC to pick the correct players what the hell can we trust him to do! Looking at those starts another way if TN starts on Saturday then JCN is almost twice as likely to score than if he doesn't. think your have to introduce appearances in to that too. Because if say the other 4 were with someone else but it was only on 4 appearances, that might be better than if TN featured in more than 7. E.g. TN has featured in 7 of the 11 goals JCH scored over x number of games vs someone else over y number of games. Also I'm fairly sure at least 2 of those had nothing to do with TN anyway. How we have been reduced to measuring the value of striker x by the number of goals striker y scores because striker x doesn't speaks some volume probably but I get the point. Assists should be coming from midfield really.
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Post by baggins on Apr 24, 2019 12:38:16 GMT
"7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch " so he's only scored 4 w/o him being on the pitch, surely that supports the view that our best striker partnership is JCH/TN, you could argue TN gets more game time than GR/AJ but if we can't we trust GC to pick the correct players what the hell can we trust him to do! Looking at those starts another way if TN starts on Saturday then JCN is almost twice as likely to score than if he doesn't. think your have to introduce appearances in to that too. Because if say the other 4 were with someone else but it was only on 4 appearances, that might be better than if TN featured in more than 7. E.g. TN has featured in 7 of the 11 goals JCH scored over x number of games vs someone else over y number of games. Also I'm fairly sure at least 2 of those had nothing to do with TN anyway. How we have been reduced to measuring the value of striker x by the number of goals striker y scores because striker x doesn't speaks some volume probably but I get the point. Assists should be coming from midfield really. Assists from midfield. There's another sour point.
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Post by axegas on Apr 24, 2019 12:38:18 GMT
"7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch " so he's only scored 4 w/o him being on the pitch, surely that supports the view that our best striker partnership is JCH/TN, you could argue TN gets more game time than GR/AJ but if we can't we trust GC to pick the correct players what the hell can we trust him to do! Looking at those starts another way if TN starts on Saturday then JCN is almost twice as likely to score than if he doesn't. 11 out of 11 of JCH’s goals were scored with Bonham on the pitch if you’re using that argument. How many of JCH’s goals has Nichols assisted in that time? Only one away at Scunthorpe. People seem to think Nichols is part of the reason why JCH is scoring goals but it’s only because he’s been on the pitch with him longer than any other striker.
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Post by lpgas on Apr 24, 2019 13:06:33 GMT
You can go through all the stats you want, the truth is we need another striker (or 2) that can hit 15- 20 goals and Nichols is not that player
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Post by Blueside on Apr 24, 2019 13:13:06 GMT
"7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch " so he's only scored 4 w/o him being on the pitch, surely that supports the view that our best striker partnership is JCH/TN, you could argue TN gets more game time than GR/AJ but if we can't we trust GC to pick the correct players what the hell can we trust him to do! Looking at those starts another way if TN starts on Saturday then JCN is almost twice as likely to score than if he doesn't. 11 out of 11 of JCH’s goals were scored with Bonham on the pitch if you’re using that argument. How many of JCH’s goals has Nichols assisted in that time? Only one away at Scunthorpe. People seem to think Nichols is part of the reason why JCH is scoring goals but it’s only because he’s been on the pitch with him longer than any other striker.
And the last few posts of this thread demonstrate exactly why I have never previously posted stats. As I said I had only looked at this theory to see for myself if JCH only ever scored when TN was on the pitch, which was the veiled impression I had made in my head. It shows how the mind can let you believe a lot of things, and I genuinely thought that JCH only ever scored when playing alongside TN. Stats showed how wrong that idea was. Once the discussion has moved on to this same idea I thought if I posted my findings it would make my pointless task seem just slightly less pointless.
As regards Bonham being on the pitch I don't think there would be many who would argue that that has any relevance at all, altthough I'm surewe as a forum could debate it for at least another four pages.
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Post by Blueside on Apr 24, 2019 13:16:32 GMT
"7 out of his 11 goals scored with TN on the pitch " so he's only scored 4 w/o him being on the pitch, surely that supports the view that our best striker partnership is JCH/TN, you could argue TN gets more game time than GR/AJ but if we can't we trust GC to pick the correct players what the hell can we trust him to do! Looking at those starts another way if TN starts on Saturday then JCN is almost twice as likely to score than if he doesn't. think your have to introduce appearances in to that too. Because if say the other 4 were with someone else but it was only on 4 appearances, that might be better than if TN featured in more than 7. E.g. TN has featured in 7 of the 11 goals JCH scored over x number of games vs someone else over y number of games. Also I'm fairly sure at least 2 of those had nothing to do with TN anyway. How we have been reduced to measuring the value of striker x by the number of goals striker y scores because striker x doesn't speaks some volume probably but I get the point. Assists should be coming from midfield really. Arrrgghhh!!!!! then it all gets too complicated and way beyond what I was trying to prove for myself!. However the one stat that probably disproves the theory is the Bradford game where he scored one with TN on the pitch and one without! Lets just buy a new striker, it would be far easier.
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