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Post by Gastafari on Sept 20, 2020 9:22:30 GMT
Here's one for you Oldie: I have read somewhere that the post Mortem report states that your hero Floyd wasn't murdered. It was stated he died from a combination of hypertension and drug ingestion. There were no neck, vertebrae or muscle injuries found. None whatsoever and yet he was supposed to have had his throat mangled with a knee. The Pathologist aalso stated that if Floyd had been unable to beta the, he would have been able to repeatedly say "I can't breathe" You heard somewhere? Brilliant...as Gassy said earlier in this thread the lack of critical thinking generally is laughable, but this takes the biscuit. The issue is not whether he was an upstanding individual, he without sin cast the first stone, the issue is police conduct and a culture that allows the police in the USA to act in thatar way. a That's a bit rich. You and others completely ignore and refuse to acknowledge the critical thinkers, who deal with real evidence and facts, one stating that he basically point blank refuses just because he deems them "Conservative". |
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Post by Gastafari on Sept 20, 2020 9:31:38 GMT
I thought the post-mortem stuff was quite well known and reported at the time - not generally picked up by U.K. media because it cast a shadow over the angle they wanted to present the story from. My understanding was that the original post-mortem showed drugs in his system and significant heart disease, the family didn’t like hearing that and went of to find another physician to come up with a different finding. The actions of the officer would surely not have killed 99.9% of anyone in that position - it was the health and lifestyle background which was the key to his death. Again, the skewed British media don’t want to present facts regarding Floyd’s history. They, and the protest groups, are desperate to have a martyr figure and someone with a background of drugs, violence, robbery etc and so try to suppress that side of the story as much as possible. The robbery where a gun was held to a pregnant woman’s stomach was disgusting and should never be brushed under the carpet so Floyd can be held up as some kind of hero. Eric, please. Middle aged man with a very poor lifestyle has underlying health issues. Wow, who would have thought? None of which detracts from the issue of police behaviour. Again, we are not judge and jury over the lifestyle choices of others, but we do, as taxpayers, have the right to question the behaviour of public servants whose employment is predicated upon the tax we pay. Here and in the States. As I have said before we have a pretty good thing going in the UK where, despite pockets of shocking behaviour by the Met, our police do so by consent. In the States its by force, which leads to this terrible outcome. Kneeling on the guys neck for that period of time, over 5 minutes apparently, led directly to his death. For clarity From the new York Times Those police officers are now subject to a charge of manslaughter. I find it quite disgusting that you would, along with others, seek to dilute the seriousness of the issue at hand by invoking someone's lifestyle as a justification or primary causal factor. I guess then you would be part of the same group of people that would justify police killing people in the UK based upon their lifestyle choices? (On the assumption police act this way on known suspects) Where does it end? If I am wrong and you object to my characterisation of you in this way, then I cannot for the life of me understand why you would come up with the comments you and others have made on this case. Yeah, don't worry about the paedophilia and chronic Sexual abuse, because Jimmy Saville did some stuff for charity. The same logic. Jesus Christ. The George Floyd incident, and incidents like it are extremely rare, as rare as being struck by lightning. It is not a thing that happens frequently, yet the Media keep telling you it is, it's bullshit. I do have an issue with a vile human being held as some sort of Martyr, why wouldn't you? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 10:36:54 GMT
I thought the post-mortem stuff was quite well known and reported at the time - not generally picked up by U.K. media because it cast a shadow over the angle they wanted to present the story from. My understanding was that the original post-mortem showed drugs in his system and significant heart disease, the family didn’t like hearing that and went of to find another physician to come up with a different finding. The actions of the officer would surely not have killed 99.9% of anyone in that position - it was the health and lifestyle background which was the key to his death. Again, the skewed British media don’t want to present facts regarding Floyd’s history. They, and the protest groups, are desperate to have a martyr figure and someone with a background of drugs, violence, robbery etc and so try to suppress that side of the story as much as possible. The robbery where a gun was held to a pregnant woman’s stomach was disgusting and should never be brushed under the carpet so Floyd can be held up as some kind of hero. Eric, please. Middle aged man with a very poor lifestyle has underlying health issues. Wow, who would have thought? None of which detracts from the issue of police behaviour. Again, we are not judge and jury over the lifestyle choices of others, but we do, as taxpayers, have the right to question the behaviour of public servants whose employment is predicated upon the tax we pay. Here and in the States. As I have said before we have a pretty good thing going in the UK where, despite pockets of shocking behaviour by the Met, our police do so by consent. In the States its by force, which leads to this terrible outcome. Kneeling on the guys neck for that period of time, over 5 minutes apparently, led directly to his death. For clarity From the new York Times Those police officers are now subject to a charge of manslaughter. I find it quite disgusting that you would, along with others, seek to dilute the seriousness of the issue at hand by invoking someone's lifestyle as a justification or primary causal factor. I guess then you would be part of the same group of people that would justify police killing people in the UK based upon their lifestyle choices? (On the assumption police act this way on known suspects) Where does it end? If I am wrong and you object to my characterisation of you in this way, then I cannot for the life of me understand why you would come up with the comments you and others have made on this case. The way you and others would like to portray this issue is that the police just go around murdering black people. That is nowhere near the truth - if it was I would not “seek to dilute” the seriousness. I’m talking very specifically about the Floyd case here, the actions of the officer in question was one part of the picture, the other factor, and probably the bigger contributor to his death will have been his drug and heart problem. Like I said the vast majority of people would not die from being restrained at the neck, most wouldn’t even have any form of injury. I also don’t think most middle aged men walk around with quantities of drugs in their system - I’m surprised you make light of that and try to normalise it. Your faux disgust at someone holding a different view to yours is laughable. The other day there was a brief discussion about the ambush and cold blooded shooting of two officers, one a young mother of a six year old child. You didn’t seem at all bothered by that, I’m sure most would find that disgusting. I guess that was collateral damage, all fair game and part of bigger cause, a throw back to those great days of civil unrest? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 11:00:40 GMT
Eric, please. Middle aged man with a very poor lifestyle has underlying health issues. Wow, who would have thought? None of which detracts from the issue of police behaviour. Again, we are not judge and jury over the lifestyle choices of others, but we do, as taxpayers, have the right to question the behaviour of public servants whose employment is predicated upon the tax we pay. Here and in the States. As I have said before we have a pretty good thing going in the UK where, despite pockets of shocking behaviour by the Met, our police do so by consent. In the States its by force, which leads to this terrible outcome. Kneeling on the guys neck for that period of time, over 5 minutes apparently, led directly to his death. For clarity From the new York Times Those police officers are now subject to a charge of manslaughter. I find it quite disgusting that you would, along with others, seek to dilute the seriousness of the issue at hand by invoking someone's lifestyle as a justification or primary causal factor. I guess then you would be part of the same group of people that would justify police killing people in the UK based upon their lifestyle choices? (On the assumption police act this way on known suspects) Where does it end? If I am wrong and you object to my characterisation of you in this way, then I cannot for the life of me understand why you would come up with the comments you and others have made on this case. Yeah, don't worry about the paedophilia and chronic Sexual abuse, because Jimmy Saville did some stuff for charity. The same logic. Jesus Christ. The George Floyd incident, and incidents like it are extremely rare, as rare as being struck by lightning. It is not a thing that happens frequently, yet the Media keep telling you it is, it's bullshit. I do have an issue with a vile human being held as some sort of Martyr, why wouldn't you? There you go again. Deflection. The Saville case is nauseating, do I think the police should have killed him on arrest? No. Nobody is holding Floyd as a martyr, people are rightly questioning police behaviour and the culture that allows it. There is far more to this than just one case. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 11:32:35 GMT
Eric
No, that would be silly. Trivialising the issues. What I am highlighting is that it happens far to often and reflects a larger societal problem
Conjecture doesnt work. You cannot possibly know, the issue was the action of the police officer in question and the three that stood by. Something the prosecutors believe was the MAJOR contributor to his death
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How on earth can you justify that remark? What evidence can you bring that justifies that summation?
One. You cannot possibly know that. Would quantities of alcohol and prescription drugs slow the heart rate and breathing? Two. I am not making light of it, I just refuse to pass judgement on something that I dont know as a causal factor.
You are making it up again. An act of grotesque criminality requires no debate. Lets hope the perpetrators are caught and face the force of the law. Such a grotesque act is no justification for you saying "whatabout" in justification for an ill informed view, is it?
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Post by Gastafari on Sept 20, 2020 11:45:10 GMT
Yeah, don't worry about the paedophilia and chronic Sexual abuse, because Jimmy Saville did some stuff for charity. The same logic. Jesus Christ. The George Floyd incident, and incidents like it are extremely rare, as rare as being struck by lightning. It is not a thing that happens frequently, yet the Media keep telling you it is, it's bullshit. I do have an issue with a vile human being held as some sort of Martyr, why wouldn't you? There you go again. Deflection. The Saville case is nauseating, do I think the police should have killed him on arrest? No. Nobody is holding Floyd as a martyr, people are rightly questioning police behaviour and the culture that allows it. There is far more to this than just one case. Nobody is holding Floyd as a Martyr? Are you being serious?  I take it all these murals from Minneapolis to Manchester, from San Diego and Syria for a vile mass criminal are just figments of imagination? I take it the documentaries made about him weren't real either? I take it Sportsmen and Women, from the NFL, Premier League, F1 etc taking the knee for months on end, promoting the sham organisation that is BLM, having their logo and slogan blazoned across shirts, name dropping George Floyds name at every opportunity didn't really happen either. He is being lauded in the same way as great people like Martin Luther King. C'mon Oldie. I can't remember all this furore and faux outrage when a man named Tony Timpa died in similar circumstances while being detained by Police 4 years ago. These cases are extremely rare, but the Media making out as if it's a frequent occurence and that Black people are being killed by the Police left right and centre is absolute bullshit. |
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Post by baggins on Sept 20, 2020 11:59:34 GMT
There you go again. Deflection. The Saville case is nauseating, do I think the police should have killed him on arrest? No. Nobody is holding Floyd as a martyr, people are rightly questioning police behaviour and the culture that allows it. There is far more to this than just one case. Nobody is holding Floyd as a Martyr? Are you being serious? I take it all these murals from Minneapolis to Manchester, from San Diego and Syria for a vile mass criminal are just figments of imagination? I take it the documentaries made about him weren't real either? I take it Sportsmen and Women, from the NFL, Premier League, F1 etc taking the knee for months on end, promoting the sham organisation that is BLM, having their logo and slogan blazoned across shirts, name dropping George Floyds name at every opportunity didn't really happen either. He is being lauded in the same way as great people like Martin Luther King. C'mon Oldie. I can't remember all this furore and faux outrage when a man named Tony Timpa died in similar circumstances while being detained by Police 4 years ago. These cases are extremely rare, but the Media making out as if it's a frequent occurence and that Black people are being killed by the Police left right and centre is absolute bullshit. I'd bet money that a good percentage of Footballers, NFL players etc, really don't know why they're kneeling pre-game. |
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Post by oldgas on Sept 20, 2020 12:13:18 GMT
Here's one for you Oldie: I have read somewhere that the post Mortem report states that your hero Floyd wasn't murdered. It was stated he died from a combination of hypertension and drug ingestion. There were no neck, vertebrae or muscle injuries found. None whatsoever and yet he was supposed to have had his throat mangled with a knee. The Pathologist aalso stated that if Floyd had been unable to beta the, he would have been able to repeatedly say "I can't breathe" You heard somewhere? Brilliant...as Gassy said earlier in this thread the lack of critical thinking generally is laughable, but this takes the biscuit. The issue is not whether he was an upstanding individual, he without sin cast the first stone, the issue is police conduct and a culture that allows the police in the USA to act in thatar way. a Marxist mis-representation at it’s finest there Oldie. I didn’t say I had heard. I said I had read. I read an article outlining what I have put here. I don’t suppose it will prove to be very popular (the autopsy report, to give it its American title) because it doesn’t pander to the BLM agenda. They will all probably pretend it doesn’t exist, or say it is fake, etc etc. I don’t really care. What I say important to remember is that the Conservatives won a thumping 80 seat majority, and there are signs that ordinary people are getting watered off with all this BLM and woke crap. Why, we might even see the BBC defunded. Taking the Marxist left wing mouthpiece to task should do a lot of good for this country. |
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Post by oldgas on Sept 20, 2020 12:16:04 GMT
Nobody is holding Floyd as a Martyr? Are you being serious? I take it all these murals from Minneapolis to Manchester, from San Diego and Syria for a vile mass criminal are just figments of imagination? I take it the documentaries made about him weren't real either? I take it Sportsmen and Women, from the NFL, Premier League, F1 etc taking the knee for months on end, promoting the sham organisation that is BLM, having their logo and slogan blazoned across shirts, name dropping George Floyds name at every opportunity didn't really happen either. He is being lauded in the same way as great people like Martin Luther King. C'mon Oldie. I can't remember all this furore and faux outrage when a man named Tony Timpa died in similar circumstances while being detained by Police 4 years ago. These cases are extremely rare, but the Media making out as if it's a frequent occurence and that Black people are being killed by the Police left right and centre is absolute bullshit. I'd bet money that a good percentage of Footballers, NFL players etc, really don't know why they're kneeling pre-game. You’re right. But they do it because they’ve been told to. And the backlash, especially if they’re Non-white would be unbelievable. thats how these totalitarian Marxist organisations operate. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 12:18:38 GMT
Nobody is holding Floyd as a Martyr? Are you being serious? I take it all these murals from Minneapolis to Manchester, from San Diego and Syria for a vile mass criminal are just figments of imagination? I take it the documentaries made about him weren't real either? I take it Sportsmen and Women, from the NFL, Premier League, F1 etc taking the knee for months on end, promoting the sham organisation that is BLM, having their logo and slogan blazoned across shirts, name dropping George Floyds name at every opportunity didn't really happen either. He is being lauded in the same way as great people like Martin Luther King. C'mon Oldie. I can't remember all this furore and faux outrage when a man named Tony Timpa died in similar circumstances while being detained by Police 4 years ago. These cases are extremely rare, but the Media making out as if it's a frequent occurence and that Black people are being killed by the Police left right and centre is absolute bullshit. I'd bet money that a good percentage of Footballers, NFL players etc, really don't know why they're kneeling pre-game. Or what the wider goals of BLM are. |
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Post by oldgas on Sept 20, 2020 12:19:33 GMT
There you go again. Deflection. The Saville case is nauseating, do I think the police should have killed him on arrest? No. Nobody is holding Floyd as a martyr, people are rightly questioning police behaviour and the culture that allows it. There is far more to this than just one case. Nobody is holding Floyd as a Martyr? Are you being serious? I take it all these murals from Minneapolis to Manchester, from San Diego and Syria for a vile mass criminal are just figments of imagination? I take it the documentaries made about him weren't real either? I take it Sportsmen and Women, from the NFL, Premier League, F1 etc taking the knee for months on end, promoting the sham organisation that is BLM, having their logo and slogan blazoned across shirts, name dropping George Floyds name at every opportunity didn't really happen either. He is being lauded in the same way as great people like Martin Luther King. C'mon Oldie. I can't remember all this furore and faux outrage when a man named Tony Timpa died in similar circumstances while being detained by Police 4 years ago. These cases are extremely rare, but the Media making out as if it's a frequent occurence and that Black people are being killed by the Police left right and centre is absolute bullshit. I suspect there are more black on black killings per head in London than blacks killed by cops in America. It that will never be examined or discussed because it doesn’t fit the agenda. |
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Post by baggins on Sept 20, 2020 12:22:16 GMT
I'd bet money that a good percentage of Footballers, NFL players etc, really don't know why they're kneeling pre-game. Or what the wider goals of BLM are. I'd struggle with that to be honest. |
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Post by baggins on Sept 20, 2020 12:22:55 GMT
I'd bet money that a good percentage of Footballers, NFL players etc, really don't know why they're kneeling pre-game. You’re right. But they do it because they’ve been told to. And the backlash, especially if they’re Non-white would be unbelievable. thats how these totalitarian Marxist organisations operate. Told or asked? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 12:34:09 GMT
You heard somewhere? Brilliant...as Gassy said earlier in this thread the lack of critical thinking generally is laughable, but this takes the biscuit. The issue is not whether he was an upstanding individual, he without sin cast the first stone, the issue is police conduct and a culture that allows the police in the USA to act in thatar way. a Marxist mis-representation at it’s finest there Oldie. I didn’t say I had heard. I said I had read. I read an article outlining what I have put here. I don’t suppose it will prove to be very popular (the autopsy report, to give it its American title) because it doesn’t pander to the BLM agenda. They will all probably pretend it doesn’t exist, or say it is fake, etc etc. I don’t really care. What I say important to remember is that the Conservatives won a thumping 80 seat majority, and there are signs that ordinary people are getting watered off with all this BLM and woke crap. Why, we might even see the BBC defunded. Taking the Marxist left wing mouthpiece to task should do a lot of good for this country. The autopsy report wasn’t accepted by the family. They paid (or possibly a wealthy backer or crowd funding paid) for another one which gave them a more preferable set of findings. Oldie talks of the prosecutor making it clear it was the actions of the police officer which caused death, I don’t believe that and I’m hopeful (unless there is a kangaroo court) that medical experts will be given the opportunity to explain the impact his pre-existing medical condition and regular, long standing drug use, had on his death and what a similar action to the officer in question took would have on the vast majority of the population. Again, I strongly suspect the actions of the officer would in normal circumstances not lead to serious injury or death. Perhaps people like Oldie would rather the police never use any force in any circumstances just in case the perpetrator has a medical condition - except of course when he or a member of his family have been the victim of a crime. Little point debating with him on the issue - he has an agenda and wants to believe it so much he will ignore any evidence to the contrary, he seems to have a craving for widespread civil disobedience and a race war based on false propaganda. The Floyd case is done and dusted for him, he’s been hung, drawn and quartered. I don’t know whether it would be a jury trial but if it is I hope they won’t be as blinkered as him. I’d rather trust Lord Melchitt from Blackadder Four presiding over the case! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 13:03:04 GMT
There you go again. Deflection. The Saville case is nauseating, do I think the police should have killed him on arrest? No. Nobody is holding Floyd as a martyr, people are rightly questioning police behaviour and the culture that allows it. There is far more to this than just one case. Nobody is holding Floyd as a Martyr? Are you being serious? I take it all these murals from Minneapolis to Manchester, from San Diego and Syria for a vile mass criminal are just figments of imagination? I take it the documentaries made about him weren't real either? I take it Sportsmen and Women, from the NFL, Premier League, F1 etc taking the knee for months on end, promoting the sham organisation that is BLM, having their logo and slogan blazoned across shirts, name dropping George Floyds name at every opportunity didn't really happen either. He is being lauded in the same way as great people like Martin Luther King. C'mon Oldie. I can't remember all this furore and faux outrage when a man named Tony Timpa died in similar circumstances while being detained by Police 4 years ago. These cases are extremely rare, but the Media making out as if it's a frequent occurence and that Black people are being killed by the Police left right and centre is absolute bullshit. Not a martyr Gastafari But a symbol, an example, of what is wrong with policing in the States which in itself is a symptom of a far greater issue in society there. As an incident to rally around it was so blatantly awful it garnered huge support. Served its purpose you might say if a cold headed approach to achieving change is appropriate. |
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Post by baggins on Sept 20, 2020 13:06:39 GMT
Bottom line. The United States has a problem with racism, with uneducated nutters who all have access to as many guns as they like.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 13:08:37 GMT
You heard somewhere? Brilliant...as Gassy said earlier in this thread the lack of critical thinking generally is laughable, but this takes the biscuit. The issue is not whether he was an upstanding individual, he without sin cast the first stone, the issue is police conduct and a culture that allows the police in the USA to act in thatar way. a Marxist mis-representation at it’s finest there Oldie. I didn’t say I had heard. I said I had read. I read an article outlining what I have put here. I don’t suppose it will prove to be very popular (the autopsy report, to give it its American title) because it doesn’t pander to the BLM agenda. They will all probably pretend it doesn’t exist, or say it is fake, etc etc. I don’t really care. What I say important to remember is that the Conservatives won a thumping 80 seat majority, and there are signs that ordinary people are getting watered off with all this BLM and woke crap. Why, we might even see the BBC defunded. Taking the Marxist left wing mouthpiece to task should do a lot of good for this country. Ok, you read it. Would have helped if you provided the link so we could all read it. If you can remember where? But like I said in my response to Eric, the lifestyle led by Floyd is not the issue here, it's the actions of the police. The rest of your post is irrelevant,incoherent drivel. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 13:13:52 GMT
Nobody is holding Floyd as a Martyr? Are you being serious? I take it all these murals from Minneapolis to Manchester, from San Diego and Syria for a vile mass criminal are just figments of imagination? I take it the documentaries made about him weren't real either? I take it Sportsmen and Women, from the NFL, Premier League, F1 etc taking the knee for months on end, promoting the sham organisation that is BLM, having their logo and slogan blazoned across shirts, name dropping George Floyds name at every opportunity didn't really happen either. He is being lauded in the same way as great people like Martin Luther King. C'mon Oldie. I can't remember all this furore and faux outrage when a man named Tony Timpa died in similar circumstances while being detained by Police 4 years ago. These cases are extremely rare, but the Media making out as if it's a frequent occurence and that Black people are being killed by the Police left right and centre is absolute bullshit. I'd bet money that a good percentage of Footballers, NFL players etc, really don't know why they're kneeling pre-game. Re NFL Players Thats an awful slur on the players and coaches there. Its not true |
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Post by baggins on Sept 20, 2020 13:19:40 GMT
I'd bet money that a good percentage of Footballers, NFL players etc, really don't know why they're kneeling pre-game. Re NFL Players Thats an awful slur on the players and coaches there. Its not true Yea, I'll take that back. They probably know the reason more than most of us. |
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Post by blueridge on Sept 20, 2020 13:21:55 GMT
Marxist mis-representation at it’s finest there Oldie. I didn’t say I had heard. I said I had read. I read an article outlining what I have put here. I don’t suppose it will prove to be very popular (the autopsy report, to give it its American title) because it doesn’t pander to the BLM agenda. They will all probably pretend it doesn’t exist, or say it is fake, etc etc. I don’t really care. What I say important to remember is that the Conservatives won a thumping 80 seat majority, and there are signs that ordinary people are getting watered off with all this BLM and woke crap. Why, we might even see the BBC defunded. Taking the Marxist left wing mouthpiece to task should do a lot of good for this country. Ok, you read it. Would have helped if you provided the link so we could all read it. If you can remember where? But like I said in my response to Eric, the lifestyle led by Floyd is not the issue here, it's the actions of the police. The rest of your post is irrelevant,incoherent drivel. You seem to love the word “incoherent” - frankly I find some of your postings obnoxious & drivel - you are clearly a narcissist. The Latin ‘cogitat improvida’ seems a appropriate phrase to describe you. |
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