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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 17:20:09 GMT
The autopsy report wasn’t accepted by the family. They paid (or possibly a wealthy backer or crowd funding paid) for another one which gave them a more preferable set of findings. Oldie talks of the prosecutor making it clear it was the actions of the police officer which caused death, I don’t believe that and I’m hopeful (unless there is a kangaroo court) that medical experts will be given the opportunity to explain the impact his pre-existing medical condition and regular, long standing drug use, had on his death and what a similar action to the officer in question took would have on the vast majority of the population. Again, I strongly suspect the actions of the officer would in normal circumstances not lead to serious injury or death. Perhaps people like Oldie would rather the police never use any force in any circumstances just in case the perpetrator has a medical condition - except of course when he or a member of his family have been the victim of a crime. Little point debating with him on the issue - he has an agenda and wants to believe it so much he will ignore any evidence to the contrary, he seems to have a craving for widespread civil disobedience and a race war based on false propaganda. The Floyd case is done and dusted for him, he’s been hung, drawn and quartered. I don’t know whether it would be a jury trial but if it is I hope they won’t be as blinkered as him. I’d rather trust Lord Melchitt from Blackadder Four presiding over the case! Oldie says there were x violations of policy cited in the video of the arrest, in which case they are culpable of something- so fine, tale the necessary action those violations demand. That doesn’t automatically make them guilty of murder, nor does it make it racist. Oldie made it sound like this is all just noise and needs to take second place to the outrage of a black man dying in preventable circumstances but I don’t get the logic behind that. The whole point of justice is to take the emotion out of it and focus on the intimate details and what they tell us and if a factor of his death was the drugs he had in his system that is massively important and changes the whole picture. Under those circumstances it seems to me that the police were negligible in not getting aid for Floyd, so death to due misconduct rather than premeditation and how you prove racism God only knows as racism is ultimately a thought crime. I would think they will be tried for manslaughter but you can very well bet your bottom dollar that if that happens there will be more riots and protests because the public will demand nothing less than murder and will not be interested in the finer details. Having lived in the States I am very of aware the degree to which the Office of the District Attorney works hard to ensure cases that are brought to court do not cross the line on the rights of the defendant, to make the case water tight as best they can. They have the official autopsy. They will have interviewed the defendants, witnesses, interrogated the security tapes and the videos taken by witnesses. They have chosen to prosecute these officers for causing the death of this guy. Why are you guys second guessing them? Has anyone objecting to this had any experience of the US judicial or system? What's the matter with you? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 17:20:55 GMT
Yea, I'll take that back. They probably know the reason more than most of us. Perhaps you and Oldie could go and discuss this with Les Ferdinand. It it seems he’s seen through the reasons for taking the knee and is having nothing more to do with it. And Dion Dublin and you can appreciate why. Trained seals having a clap which probably appeases white people at the FA and white wokesters on Twitter more than it actually solves anything. As you said the Tories won a big majority and they won it off the back of Brexit which was based on fear of the “other”. I’d be willing to bet that many of those who want closed borders also (at the very least) view BLM with unease and scepticism and it’s these people that need to be won over in order for there to be any serious political change in this country. There was a vox pop I saw about the fall of the “red wall” the other day from a woman who lives in a midlands constituency that turned blue for the first time practically since WWII and she said that that community is a far cry from BLM - despite covid support for the Tory encumbent is still high because the people who live there couldn’t give a sh** about bending the knee, George Floyd or the culture war or the other stuff that Labour And other parties might change, they care about local education, local jobs and local services and that’s the job that BLM have on their hands. To make these communities buy into the narrative that better rights for everyone helps the whole country. But people are too selfish at heart to care. That’s why even with their handling of Covid and brexit the tories still seem to be able to do no wrong in the eyes of a vast proportion of the electorate. Change will only come through politics. I’m convinced of that. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 17:30:19 GMT
Oh it does fit an agenda. The agenda is "To what degree does poverty and deprivation drive social breakdown, drug abuse and poor health outcomes?" Within that to what degree is that exacerbated by minority groups who may be subject to bias, prejudice and outright racism." No doubt those factors play a part but to look at it in the round you have to throw in “to what extent does personal agency contribute?”. It seems to be a given that poverty forces people to pick up guns, join gangs and start shooting but like the old saying goes “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. |
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Post by oldgas on Sept 21, 2020 17:59:56 GMT
Oldie says there were x violations of policy cited in the video of the arrest, in which case they are culpable of something- so fine, tale the necessary action those violations demand. That doesn’t automatically make them guilty of murder, nor does it make it racist. Oldie made it sound like this is all just noise and needs to take second place to the outrage of a black man dying in preventable circumstances but I don’t get the logic behind that. The whole point of justice is to take the emotion out of it and focus on the intimate details and what they tell us and if a factor of his death was the drugs he had in his system that is massively important and changes the whole picture. Under those circumstances it seems to me that the police were negligible in not getting aid for Floyd, so death to due misconduct rather than premeditation and how you prove racism God only knows as racism is ultimately a thought crime. I would think they will be tried for manslaughter but you can very well bet your bottom dollar that if that happens there will be more riots and protests because the public will demand nothing less than murder and will not be interested in the finer details. Having lived in the States I am very of aware the degree to which the Office of the District Attorney works hard to ensure cases that are brought to court do not cross the line on the rights of the defendant, to make the case water tight as best they can. They have the official autopsy. They will have interviewed the defendants, witnesses, interrogated the security tapes and the videos taken by witnesses. They have chosen to prosecute these officers for causing the death of this guy. Why are you guys second guessing them?u are Has anyone objecting to this had any experience of the US judicial or system? What's the matter with you? You are a truly well travelled little Marxist, aren't you. What has Oldie the internationalist got to say about that bitch going on TV and saying they’re gonna kill Whitey? Been strangely quiet regarding that piece of overt racism, haven’t you. |
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Post by oldgas on Sept 21, 2020 18:01:43 GMT
Perhaps you and Oldie could go and discuss this with Les Ferdinand. It it seems he’s seen through the reasons for taking the knee and is having nothing more to do with it. And Dion Dublin and you can appreciate why. Trained seals having a clap which probably appeases white people at the FA and white wokesters on Twitter more than it actually solves anything. As you said the Tories won a big majority and they won it off the back of Brexit which was based on fear of the “other”. I’d be willing to bet that many of those who want closed borders also (at the very least) view BLM with unease and scepticism and it’s these people that need to be won over in order for there to be any serious political change in this country. There was a vox pop I saw about the fall of the “red wall” the other day from a woman who lives in a midlands constituency that turned blue for the first time practically since WWII and she said that that community is a far cry from BLM - despite covid support for the Tory encumbent is still high because the people who live there couldn’t give a sh** about bending the knee, George Floyd or the culture war or the other stuff that Labour And other parties might change, they care about local education, local jobs and local services and that’s the job that BLM have on their hands. To make these communities buy into the narrative that better rights for everyone helps the whole country. But people are too selfish at heart to care. That’s why even with their handling of Covid and brexit the tories still seem to be able to do no wrong in the eyes of a vast proportion of the electorate. Change will only come through politics. I’m convinced of that. You almost make it sound like those people are wrong to have concerns about those matters. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 18:23:50 GMT
I don’t really care how the authorities have ruled his death. If it has been medically proved that the actions of the arresting officers didn’t cause his death through strangulation then he wasn’t strangled. Why don’t you get someone to strangle you to the point where you can’t breathe then repeatedly say “I can’t breathe” You won’t be able to do it. So I’m not going to be taken in by this faux declaration by the authorities because all they’re doing is pandering to BLM opinion. NOT public opinion, BLM opinion because they’re the Marxist assholes causing all the trouble. So, eventually the trial will come to court and murder charges will be ridiculed and thrown out. Because there is no evidence to support them. Then the authorities can shrug their shoulders and say we tried to get what you wanted, but the facts got in the way. And then America and the Antifa and BLM pricks over here will kick off again. And now to your reply. I attempted to be conciliatory with you in my last post. I needn’t have bothered because, as per usual, you put your finfers in your ears, your hands over your eyes and ignored everything I said. I know what the authorities over there have said and quite frankly I couldn’t give a flying f icky. Believe me, any attempt to prosecute those officers will fail. even if they didn't kill him, it's not the point. Man was saying he couldn't breathe. What did the officer do to check on him or help him? What gives the officer the right to just stay on top of him like that for minute after minute, whilst a man is begging for help? George Floyd, might be a less than perfect case, but it was the one that made people stand up and say "enough is enough" A police officer is arresting someone (6ft6” tall) and is aware he has a long and violent criminal history. He complains of being unable to breathe before even being pinned to the ground so reasonable to assume it’s just a tactic to evade arrest? This could so easily have happened to a white criminal in exactly the same circumstances. Although the officer concerned is probably an over aggressive a hole I don’t think he will deserve a lengthy sentence to stave off more riots. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 18:25:51 GMT
Oldie says there were x violations of policy cited in the video of the arrest, in which case they are culpable of something- so fine, tale the necessary action those violations demand. That doesn’t automatically make them guilty of murder, nor does it make it racist. Oldie made it sound like this is all just noise and needs to take second place to the outrage of a black man dying in preventable circumstances but I don’t get the logic behind that. The whole point of justice is to take the emotion out of it and focus on the intimate details and what they tell us and if a factor of his death was the drugs he had in his system that is massively important and changes the whole picture. Under those circumstances it seems to me that the police were negligible in not getting aid for Floyd, so death to due misconduct rather than premeditation and how you prove racism God only knows as racism is ultimately a thought crime. I would think they will be tried for manslaughter but you can very well bet your bottom dollar that if that happens there will be more riots and protests because the public will demand nothing less than murder and will not be interested in the finer details. Having lived in the States I am very of aware the degree to which the Office of the District Attorney works hard to ensure cases that are brought to court do not cross the line on the rights of the defendant, to make the case water tight as best they can. They have the official autopsy. They will have interviewed the defendants, witnesses, interrogated the security tapes and the videos taken by witnesses. They have chosen to prosecute these officers for causing the death of this guy. Why are you guys second guessing them? Has anyone objecting to this had any experience of the US judicial or system? What's the matter with you? Guilty until proven innocent then? Good job that kind of justice system doesn’t apply to BAME - could cause a riot! |
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Post by peterparker on Sept 21, 2020 19:24:57 GMT
even if they didn't kill him, it's not the point. Man was saying he couldn't breathe. What did the officer do to check on him or help him? What gives the officer the right to just stay on top of him like that for minute after minute, whilst a man is begging for help? George Floyd, might be a less than perfect case, but it was the one that made people stand up and say "enough is enough" A police officer is arresting someone (6ft6” tall) and is aware he has a long and violent criminal history. He complains of being unable to breathe before even being pinned to the ground so reasonable to assume it’s just a tactic to evade arrest? This could so easily have happened to a white criminal in exactly the same circumstances. Although the officer concerned is probably an over aggressive a hole I don’t think he will deserve a lengthy sentence to stave off more riots. So what were the other cops doing |
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Post by oldgas on Sept 21, 2020 19:55:48 GMT
A police officer is arresting someone (6ft6” tall) and is aware he has a long and violent criminal history. He complains of being unable to breathe before even being pinned to the ground so reasonable to assume it’s just a tactic to evade arrest? This could so easily have happened to a white criminal in exactly the same circumstances. Although the officer concerned is probably an over aggressive a hole I don’t think he will deserve a lengthy sentence to stave off more riots. So what were the other cops doing IT doesn't matter if there were 10 other cops there. If Floyd wasn't murdered then the number of cops in attendance is utterly irrelevant. What you seem to be saying is other cops in attendance didn't stop something that didn't happen. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 20:08:36 GMT
A police officer is arresting someone (6ft6” tall) and is aware he has a long and violent criminal history. He complains of being unable to breathe before even being pinned to the ground so reasonable to assume it’s just a tactic to evade arrest? This could so easily have happened to a white criminal in exactly the same circumstances. Although the officer concerned is probably an over aggressive a hole I don’t think he will deserve a lengthy sentence to stave off more riots. So what were the other cops doing No idea. Probably little and warrant some form of punishment for neglect etc. No doubt their neglect will be due to racism and there will be calls for decades long sentences. Weren’t some of the officers at the scene BAME themselves? |
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Post by oldgas on Sept 21, 2020 20:34:24 GMT
Marxist mis-representation at it’s finest there Oldie. I didn’t say I had heard. I said I had read. I read an article outlining what I have put here. I don’t suppose it will prove to be very popular (the autopsy report, to give it its American title) because it doesn’t pander to the BLM agenda. They will all probably pretend it doesn’t exist, or say it is fake, etc etc. I don’t really care. What I say important to remember is that the Conservatives won a thumping 80 seat majority, and there are signs that ordinary people are getting watered off with all this BLM and woke crap. Why, we might even see the BBC defunded. Taking the Marxist left wing mouthpiece to task should do a lot of good for this country. The autopsy report wasn’t accepted by the family. They paid (or possibly a wealthy backer or crowd funding paid) for another one which gave them a more preferable set of findings. Oldie talks of the prosecutor making it clear it was the actions of the police officer which caused death, I don’t believe that and I’m hopeful (unless there is a kangaroo court) that medical experts will be given the opportunity to explain the impact his pre-existing medical condition and regular, long standing drug use, had on his death and what a similar action to the officer in question took would have on the vast majority of the population. Again, I strongly suspect the actions of the officer would in normal circumstances not lead to serious injury or death. Perhaps people like Oldie would rather the police never use any force in any circumstances just in case the perpetrator has a medical condition - except of course when he or a member of his family have been the victim of a crime. Little point debating with him on the issue - he has an agenda and wants to believe it so much he will ignore any evidence to the contrary, he seems to have a craving for widespread civil disobedience and a race war based on false propaganda. The Floyd case is done and dusted for him, he’s been hung, drawn and quartered. I don’t know whether it would be a jury trial but if it is I hope they won’t be as blinkered as him. I’d rather trust Lord Melchitt from Blackadder Four presiding over the case! They paid for an alternative report? More likely they organised a Go Fund Me riot and looting spree, with a couple of white cop shootings on the side to add value, to pay for the alternative report. I expect if you were to study the bystanders you'd see Oldie in his Jeremy Corbyn hat cheering them on from the sidelines as they gave the white oppressors a good kicking whilst making off with the contents from shops owned and run by honest black folk. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 21:06:00 GMT
The autopsy report wasn’t accepted by the family. They paid (or possibly a wealthy backer or crowd funding paid) for another one which gave them a more preferable set of findings. Oldie talks of the prosecutor making it clear it was the actions of the police officer which caused death, I don’t believe that and I’m hopeful (unless there is a kangaroo court) that medical experts will be given the opportunity to explain the impact his pre-existing medical condition and regular, long standing drug use, had on his death and what a similar action to the officer in question took would have on the vast majority of the population. Again, I strongly suspect the actions of the officer would in normal circumstances not lead to serious injury or death. Perhaps people like Oldie would rather the police never use any force in any circumstances just in case the perpetrator has a medical condition - except of course when he or a member of his family have been the victim of a crime. Little point debating with him on the issue - he has an agenda and wants to believe it so much he will ignore any evidence to the contrary, he seems to have a craving for widespread civil disobedience and a race war based on false propaganda. The Floyd case is done and dusted for him, he’s been hung, drawn and quartered. I don’t know whether it would be a jury trial but if it is I hope they won’t be as blinkered as him. I’d rather trust Lord Melchitt from Blackadder Four presiding over the case! They paid for an alternative report? More likely they organised a Go Fund Me riot and looting spree, with a couple of white cop shootings on the side to add value, to pay for the alternative report. I expect if you were to study the bystanders you'd see Oldie in his Jeremy Corbyn hat cheering them on from the sidelines as they gave the white oppressors a good kicking whilst making off with the contents from shops owned and run by honest black folk. Your utter ignorance, lack of any obvious experience, narrow minded bigotry is quite astonishing. My goodness what a pathetic little cocoon of stupidity you live in. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 21:09:07 GMT
Having lived in the States I am very of aware the degree to which the Office of the District Attorney works hard to ensure cases that are brought to court do not cross the line on the rights of the defendant, to make the case water tight as best they can. They have the official autopsy. They will have interviewed the defendants, witnesses, interrogated the security tapes and the videos taken by witnesses. They have chosen to prosecute these officers for causing the death of this guy. Why are you guys second guessing them? Has anyone objecting to this had any experience of the US judicial or system? What's the matter with you? Guilty until proven innocent then? Good job that kind of justice system doesn’t apply to BAME - could cause a riot! On the first point, absolutely, that rule applies to everyone. On your second point, I have no idea what that even means. |
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Post by Gastafari on Sept 21, 2020 22:08:49 GMT
A police officer is arresting someone (6ft6” tall) and is aware he has a long and violent criminal history. He complains of being unable to breathe before even being pinned to the ground so reasonable to assume it’s just a tactic to evade arrest? This could so easily have happened to a white criminal in exactly the same circumstances. Although the officer concerned is probably an over aggressive a hole I don’t think he will deserve a lengthy sentence to stave off more riots. So what were the other cops doing 2 of the other cops were Black and of Asian descent. They both fall under the new "BAME" term. Kind of makes the "Racism" shouts weird. Chauvin the one who had his knee on Floyd maybe a c*nt, but the other officers are "Minorities" themselves. Even more facts that people seem to want to ignore. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 22:45:54 GMT
Having lived in the States I am very of aware the degree to which the Office of the District Attorney works hard to ensure cases that are brought to court do not cross the line on the rights of the defendant, to make the case water tight as best they can. They have the official autopsy. They will have interviewed the defendants, witnesses, interrogated the security tapes and the videos taken by witnesses. They have chosen to prosecute these officers for causing the death of this guy. Why are you guys second guessing them?u are Has anyone objecting to this had any experience of the US judicial or system? What's the matter with you? You are a truly well travelled little Marxist, aren't you. What has Oldie the internationalist got to say about that bitch going on TV and saying they’re gonna kill Whitey? Been strangely quiet regarding that piece of overt racism, haven’t you. What are you referring to out of interest? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 4:30:48 GMT
So what were the other cops doing 2 of the other cops were Black and of Asian descent. They both fall under the new "BAME" term. Kind of makes the "Racism" shouts weird. Chauvin the one who had his knee on Floyd maybe a c*nt, but the other officers are "Minorities" themselves. Even more facts that people seem to want to ignore. The police involved are not being prosecuted along racial lines. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 4:32:44 GMT
You are a truly well travelled little Marxist, aren't you. What has Oldie the internationalist got to say about that bitch going on TV and saying they’re gonna kill Whitey? Been strangely quiet regarding that piece of overt racism, haven’t you. What are you referring to out of interest? Quoting the Sun, judging by the use of the English language. Best ignored |
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Post by Gastafari on Sept 22, 2020 6:33:02 GMT
2 of the other cops were Black and of Asian descent. They both fall under the new "BAME" term. Kind of makes the "Racism" shouts weird. Chauvin the one who had his knee on Floyd maybe a c*nt, but the other officers are "Minorities" themselves. Even more facts that people seem to want to ignore. The police involved are not being prosecuted along racial lines. Which makes all of it even more bizarre. If they are not being prosecuted along racial lines. Why has the whole whirlwind since been about racism? |
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Post by peterparker on Sept 22, 2020 6:45:16 GMT
The police involved are not being prosecuted along racial lines. Which makes all of it even more bizarre. If they are not being prosecuted along racial lines. Why has the whole whirlwind since been about racism? Because they are 2 different things as a result of one Black people are fed up on their treatment. This was their breaking point. The Police are being prosecuted for not doing their job |
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 22, 2020 6:54:52 GMT
I expect if you were to study the bystanders you'd see Oldie in his Jeremy Corbyn hat cheering them on from the sidelines as they gave the white oppressors a good kicking whilst making off with the contents from shops owned and run by honest black folk. Your utter ignorance, lack of any obvious experience, narrow minded bigotry is quite astonishing. My goodness what a pathetic little cocoon of stupidity you live in. To be fair, Oldgas`s scenario is not one that I struggle to envisage. You posted ( and repeated) on here, how much you enjoyed living through the days of the Red Army Faction`s murderous rampage. You have no problem with murder and destruction, as long as it`s carried out in an ideology that you approve of. |
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