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Post by oldie on Apr 12, 2021 5:43:03 GMT
You suspect its less likely to be due to race because the offender was also from a minority group? Don't let me put words in your mouth but thats what I'm understanding from what you have written. Doubting a racial motive due to minority status of alleged offender? That right? Where does that fit in with your previous assertions about minority on minority violence? Also just for clarity. It goes onto mention Derek Chauvin, the Police Officer involved in the George Floyd incident, in the article. "Ex-police officer Derek Chauvin is currently on trial for the murder of George Floyd. The footage of Mr Chauvin, who is white, with his knee on African-American Mr Floyd's neck during an arrest sparked global protests against racism" So, it states that Derek Chauvin is White,and had his knee on 'African-American Mr Floyd's" neck. So even going back to that incident 1 year ago, they mention the offenders race and the victims race. Again just found it interesting as to why it didn't mention Gutierrez's race? It appears to me Gastafari that you seek out the tiniest ripples in any story to justify your position. Its the same on education. When comparing outcomes for white working class kids you bring in race, "what about Polish" etc, when in fact large scale immigration from Europe didnt really get going until 2005 and the white working class problem predated that. I would agree with you in principle that we, as a society, cannot simplistically point one causal factor, such as racism, perhaps we could say its the salt into a pre-existing wound. However looking at your views on left and right, they themselves appear simplistic to me. This pandemic has again highlighted, or brought to the fore, the glaring fault lines in our society. Like this one www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/11/black-youth-unemployment-rate-brixton-riots-covidYou could equally apply that headline to Belfast, Food Banks in many English cities, the systemic unemployment / under employment / in work benefit culture that plagues us. Then you can look at our government. Look at their priorities and rhetoric, behaviour. But I suspect they may well be a little left wing for you, given what appears to be your Calvinist attitude and absolutism when observing society |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 12, 2021 6:19:00 GMT
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Post by oldie on Apr 12, 2021 7:49:30 GMT
Outrageous left wing propaganda 😂😂😂 Its funny, one of the more articulate members of this forum asked me why I hated this country so much. This country, no, my country and its not hate. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Apr 12, 2021 8:00:31 GMT
Outrageous left wing propaganda 😂😂😂 Its funny, one of the more articulate members of this forum asked me why I hated this country so much. This country, no, my country and its not hate. If you hated it, you would have no interest in making it better. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 12, 2021 8:17:31 GMT
Outrageous left wing propaganda 😂😂😂 Its funny, one of the more articulate members of this forum asked me why I hated this country so much. This country, no, my country and its not hate. If you hated it, you would have no interest in making it better. Precisely put sir |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 12, 2021 8:55:30 GMT
Outrageous left wing propaganda 😂😂😂 Its funny, one of the more articulate members of this forum asked me why I hated this country so much. This country, no, my country and its not hate. This is the funny part, if you don’t stick your fingers in your ears and shout this is the best country in the world and we’re perfect’ then you’re deemed a ‘far left extremist’ or ‘Marxist’. Logic is lost on some. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 12, 2021 9:56:07 GMT
Also just for clarity. It goes onto mention Derek Chauvin, the Police Officer involved in the George Floyd incident, in the article. "Ex-police officer Derek Chauvin is currently on trial for the murder of George Floyd. The footage of Mr Chauvin, who is white, with his knee on African-American Mr Floyd's neck during an arrest sparked global protests against racism" So, it states that Derek Chauvin is White,and had his knee on 'African-American Mr Floyd's" neck. So even going back to that incident 1 year ago, they mention the offenders race and the victims race. Again just found it interesting as to why it didn't mention Gutierrez's race? It appears to me Gastafari that you seek out the tiniest ripples in any story to justify your position. Its the same on education. When comparing outcomes for white working class kids you bring in race, "what about Polish" etc, when in fact large scale immigration from Europe didnt really get going until 2005 and the white working class problem predated that. I would agree with you in principle that we, as a society, cannot simplistically point one causal factor, such as racism, perhaps we could say its the salt into a pre-existing wound. However looking at your views on left and right, they themselves appear simplistic to me. This pandemic has again highlighted, or brought to the fore, the glaring fault lines in our society. Like this one www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/11/black-youth-unemployment-rate-brixton-riots-covidYou could equally apply that headline to Belfast, Food Banks in many English cities, the systemic unemployment / under employment / in work benefit culture that plagues us. Then you can look at our government. Look at their priorities and rhetoric, behaviour. But I suspect they may well be a little left wing for you, given what appears to be your Calvinist attitude and absolutism when observing society Yes I do Oldie. Do you know why? Because as a 'Minority' I'm sick to the back teeth of the rhetoric by yourself, Gassy, Yatton, Grover etc who are actually the ones who bring 'Race' into everything. Literally everything is 'Racist' to you, everything is about people like me being 'Oppressed" and how god awful this Country, Government, Royal Family and pretty much everything else is. This thread, which is just about the only one i've contributed to, is full of it. Now I can see why certain posters have left and don't contribute on here anymore. You have Mods that don't seem to care about serious, overt, unsubstantiated allegations of racism towards other posters, calling them 'Racist fuckers' and 'Absolute scumbags'. I take Race issues very seriously, hence why this thread is the one I mainly comment on, which is why I hate it being used in vain, and it's vile when people like Yatton disgracefully use it at every opportunity to try and belittle people he doesn't agree with. It's disgusting. The reason why I brought in 'White Polish' etc is because it's sensible to look at all the figures. I also mentioned 'White Irish' too which as immigrants have been here a lot longer than 2005, so I don't know what you're talking about. You were separating 'Afro-carribbean' from other Black groups, so I was doing the same with 'White Groups', as ever when you break it down it tells a completely different story. All I've done is be honest and admit to a problem that exists within my community, a major one which affects it more than anything else, imo. You and others just don't want to hear it, and have just blamed it on Stereotypes. Typical. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 12, 2021 10:42:45 GMT
It appears to me Gastafari that you seek out the tiniest ripples in any story to justify your position. Its the same on education. When comparing outcomes for white working class kids you bring in race, "what about Polish" etc, when in fact large scale immigration from Europe didnt really get going until 2005 and the white working class problem predated that. I would agree with you in principle that we, as a society, cannot simplistically point one causal factor, such as racism, perhaps we could say its the salt into a pre-existing wound. However looking at your views on left and right, they themselves appear simplistic to me. This pandemic has again highlighted, or brought to the fore, the glaring fault lines in our society. Like this one www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/11/black-youth-unemployment-rate-brixton-riots-covidYou could equally apply that headline to Belfast, Food Banks in many English cities, the systemic unemployment / under employment / in work benefit culture that plagues us. Then you can look at our government. Look at their priorities and rhetoric, behaviour. But I suspect they may well be a little left wing for you, given what appears to be your Calvinist attitude and absolutism when observing society Yes I do Oldie. Do you know why? Because as a 'Minority' I'm sick to the back teeth of the rhetoric by yourself, Gassy, Yatton, Grover etc who are actually the ones who bring 'Race' into everything. Literally everything is 'Racist' to you, everything is about people like me being 'Oppressed" and how god awful this Country, Government, Royal Family and pretty much everything else is. This thread, which is just about the only one i've contributed to, is full of it. Now I can see why certain posters have left and don't contribute on here anymore. You have Mods that don't seem to care about serious, overt, unsubstantiated allegations of racism towards other posters, calling them 'Racist fuckers' and 'Absolute scumbags'. I take Race issues very seriously, hence why this thread is the one I mainly comment on, which is why I hate it being used in vain, and it's vile when people like Yatton disgracefully use it at every opportunity to try and belittle people he doesn't agree with. It's disgusting. The reason why I brought in 'White Polish' etc is because it's sensible to look at all the figures. I also mentioned 'White Irish' too which as immigrants have been here a lot longer than 2005, so I don't know what you're talking about. You were separating 'Afro-carribbean' from other Black groups, so I was doing the same with 'White Groups', as ever when you break it down it tells a completely different story. All I've done is be honest and admit to a problem that exists within my community, a major one which affects it more than anything else, imo. You and others just don't want to hear it, and have just blamed it on Stereotypes. Typical. Race was brought into it on Brexit ( legitimately ) taking a knee ( legitimately) and this thread ( legitimately) . You just want to shut down anyone from the left who has a different opinion from yours . Your heritage doesn’t give you the right to say other posters can’t have an opinion. You don’t agree with us , that’s a forum mucker ! It’s the way it works , you’re not always 100% right as has been proven to you with your Trump statements you gave as facts . |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 12, 2021 11:20:19 GMT
Yep sorry for having an open discussion about race, in threads about racism.
I guess you’d prefer everyone just agrees with you, seeming as your opinion is fact, after all.
But as we’re bringing race into everything, in a thread about racism - perhaps you should fly to America and tell the courts that actually, the George Floyd killing isn’t about race. Will you do that please?
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 12, 2021 11:53:36 GMT
Yep sorry for having an open discussion about race, in threads about racism. I guess you’d prefer everyone just agrees with you, seeming as your opinion is fact, after all. But as we’re bringing race into everything, in a thread about racism - perhaps you should fly to America and tell the courts that actually, the George Floyd killing isn’t about race. Will you do that please? Ah Brilliant! Open discussion? Please, that's why if you disagree you're called "Racist fuckers" and "Absolute Scumbags". Yeah, seems very open to me. You as a Mod, should look in the mirror, because you are happy for that Vile, disgraceful behaviour to carry on. You could of nipped it in the bud, but no, you actually agree with the perpetrator. Which makes you as bad as he is. Disgusting. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 12, 2021 12:17:48 GMT
Yep sorry for having an open discussion about race, in threads about racism. I guess you’d prefer everyone just agrees with you, seeming as your opinion is fact, after all. But as we’re bringing race into everything, in a thread about racism - perhaps you should fly to America and tell the courts that actually, the George Floyd killing isn’t about race. Will you do that please? Ah Brilliant! Open discussion? Please, that's why if you disagree you're called "Racist fuckers" and "Absolute Scumbags". Yeah, seems very open to me. You as a Mod, should look in the mirror, because you are happy for that Vile, disgraceful behaviour to carry on. You could of nipped it in the bud, but no, you actually agree with the perpetrator. Which makes you as bad as he is. Disgusting. Those posts you had to dig up from Dec , are you really naive enough to think that people don’t hold racists views that post on this or any other forum for that matter ? Yes I called racists scumbags ..... that’s what I think . Maybe my language was a bit tasty at the time , but I was angry at the Millwall incident and how I perceived some posters were being apologists for what I considered something that was rooted in racism ( note I say my opinion, that’s not to say I’m 100% right ) You’ve obviously got a problem with it which is fair enough. Report my post , if the mods thinks i should get reprimanded or thrown off here I’m ok with that . |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 12, 2021 12:26:45 GMT
Yep sorry for having an open discussion about race, in threads about racism. I guess you’d prefer everyone just agrees with you, seeming as your opinion is fact, after all. But as we’re bringing race into everything, in a thread about racism - perhaps you should fly to America and tell the courts that actually, the George Floyd killing isn’t about race. Will you do that please? Ah Brilliant! Open discussion? Please, that's why if you disagree you're called "Racist fuckers" and "Absolute Scumbags". Yeah, seems very open to me. You as a Mod, should look in the mirror, because you are happy for that Vile, disgraceful behaviour to carry on. You could of nipped it in the bud, but no, you actually agree with the perpetrator. Which makes you as bad as he is. Disgusting. Do you not think racists are scumbags? As usual you can’t back up any of your points about bringing race in every discussion. You saw you want debate but belittle and get angry at anyone who disagrees, and that’s fine - we all do it, but don’t act holier than holy whilst you do it. Yes, it’s an open discussion. It’s a forum for open debate. When has Yatton called you a racist f**ker or absolute scumbag? |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 12, 2021 12:38:07 GMT
Ah Brilliant! Open discussion? Please, that's why if you disagree you're called "Racist fuckers" and "Absolute Scumbags". Yeah, seems very open to me. You as a Mod, should look in the mirror, because you are happy for that Vile, disgraceful behaviour to carry on. You could of nipped it in the bud, but no, you actually agree with the perpetrator. Which makes you as bad as he is. Disgusting. Do you not think racists are scumbags? As usual you can’t back up any of your points about bringing race in every discussion. You saw you want debate but belittle and get angry at anyone who disagrees, and that’s fine - we all do it, but don’t act holier than holy whilst you do it. Yes, it’s an open discussion. It’s a forum for open debate. When has Yatton called you a racist f**ker or absolute scumbag? The thread in question, there was absolutely no racism whatsoever. Just people who had a difference of opinion regarding BLM, taking of the knee and the booing that took place at a Millwall game. Certain posters had the same view as me, certainly on BLM and the taking of the knee. That doesn't make them racists. Yatton, made a jibe, suggesting we know who the racists are on the thread. Disgusting behaviour. They were serious, overt, unsubstantiated allegations, he then went onto say they were 'Racist Fuckers' and 'Absolute scumbags'. Again, disgusting and vile behaviour. What does it matter if Yatton called me a 'Racist f**ker' directly? He was accusing posters who had similar views to me on certain things, it. No real surprise you're playing it down. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 12, 2021 12:41:12 GMT
Do you not think racists are scumbags? As usual you can’t back up any of your points about bringing race in every discussion. You saw you want debate but belittle and get angry at anyone who disagrees, and that’s fine - we all do it, but don’t act holier than holy whilst you do it. Yes, it’s an open discussion. It’s a forum for open debate. When has Yatton called you a racist f**ker or absolute scumbag? The thread in question, there was absolutely no racism whatsoever. Just people who had a difference of opinion regarding BLM, taking of the knee and the booing that took place at a Millwall game. Certain posters had the same view as me, certainly on BLM and the taking of the knee. That doesn't make them racists. Yatton, made a jibe, suggesting we know who the racists are on the thread. Disgusting behaviour. They were serious, overt, unsubstantiated allegations, he then went onto say they were 'Racist Fuckers' and 'Absolute scumbags'. Again, disgusting and vile behaviour. What does it matter if Yatton called me a 'Racist f**ker' directly? He was accusing posters who had similar views to me on certain things, it. No real surprise you're playing it down. Report my post then for gods sake man ! All this faux outrage from something I posted 4 months ago . You must of been sooooooo outraged it’s taken you all this time to even comment on it 🙄 |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 12, 2021 12:45:33 GMT
The thread in question, there was absolutely no racism whatsoever. Just people who had a difference of opinion regarding BLM, taking of the knee and the booing that took place at a Millwall game. Certain posters had the same view as me, certainly on BLM and the taking of the knee. That doesn't make them racists. Yatton, made a jibe, suggesting we know who the racists are on the thread. Disgusting behaviour. They were serious, overt, unsubstantiated allegations, he then went onto say they were 'Racist Fuckers' and 'Absolute scumbags'. Again, disgusting and vile behaviour. What does it matter if Yatton called me a 'Racist f**ker' directly? He was accusing posters who had similar views to me on certain things, it. No real surprise you're playing it down. Report my post then for gods sake man ! All this faux outrage from something I posted 4 months ago . You must of been sooooooo outraged it’s taken you all this time to even comment on it 🙄 It's because I didn't have any correspondence with you, until recently. Since then other posters have pointed out and mentioned to me, your vile behaviour. It's become clear, since my brief exchanges with you, that they were 100% correct. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 12, 2021 12:56:51 GMT
Report my post then for gods sake man ! All this faux outrage from something I posted 4 months ago . You must of been sooooooo outraged it’s taken you all this time to even comment on it 🙄 It's because I didn't have any correspondence with you, until recently. Since then other posters have pointed out and mentioned to me, your vile behaviour. It's become clear, since my brief exchanges with you, that they were 100% correct. You haven’t answered my question or Gassys yet . Do you think racists are scumbags? I’m starting to get the impression you don’t like me Gastafari 😥 |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 12, 2021 13:04:37 GMT
Do you not think racists are scumbags? As usual you can’t back up any of your points about bringing race in every discussion. You saw you want debate but belittle and get angry at anyone who disagrees, and that’s fine - we all do it, but don’t act holier than holy whilst you do it. Yes, it’s an open discussion. It’s a forum for open debate. When has Yatton called you a racist f**ker or absolute scumbag? The thread in question, there was absolutely no racism whatsoever. Just people who had a difference of opinion regarding BLM, taking of the knee and the booing that took place at a Millwall game. Certain posters had the same view as me, certainly on BLM and the taking of the knee. That doesn't make them racists. Yatton, made a jibe, suggesting we know who the racists are on the thread. Disgusting behaviour. They were serious, overt, unsubstantiated allegations, he then went onto say they were 'Racist Fuckers' and 'Absolute scumbags'. Again, disgusting and vile behaviour. What does it matter if Yatton called me a 'Racist f**ker' directly? He was accusing posters who had similar views to me on certain things, it. No real surprise you're playing it down. I don't read, nor am I able to read, every single post on the forum. Clearly you've known about this post very well and its really bothered you for a long time, so please do report it or point it out to me in more detail and I'll take a look. I'm playing it down as much as you've played down women's protests and maternity. Take a pick how you choose to view that statement. It seems to me that your views are being challenged more than you'd like or expect, and now you're throwing insults. I guess the word irony is still lost on you. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 12, 2021 13:15:04 GMT
The thread in question, there was absolutely no racism whatsoever. Just people who had a difference of opinion regarding BLM, taking of the knee and the booing that took place at a Millwall game. Certain posters had the same view as me, certainly on BLM and the taking of the knee. That doesn't make them racists. Yatton, made a jibe, suggesting we know who the racists are on the thread. Disgusting behaviour. They were serious, overt, unsubstantiated allegations, he then went onto say they were 'Racist Fuckers' and 'Absolute scumbags'. Again, disgusting and vile behaviour. What does it matter if Yatton called me a 'Racist f**ker' directly? He was accusing posters who had similar views to me on certain things, it. No real surprise you're playing it down. I don't read, nor am I able to read, every single post on the forum. Clearly you've known about this post very well and its really bothered you for a long time, so please do report it or point it out to me in more detail and I'll take a look. I'm playing it down as much as you've played down women's protests and maternity. Take a pick how you choose to view that statement. It seems to me that your views are being challenged more than you'd like or expect, and now you're throwing insults. I guess the word irony is still lost on you. You've seen very well the posts in question. You agree with the perpetrator that much is perfectly clear, as just like him you're excusing them. It's pathetic. It also highlights my point about the rhetoric of bringing racism into everything, as that thread included no racism whatsoever, however it still didn't stop the perpetrator making jibes about other posters being racists. I haven't thrown any insults around, perhaps you've mistaken me for the person who made those vile, disgusting accusations. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 12, 2021 13:17:55 GMT
I don't read, nor am I able to read, every single post on the forum. Clearly you've known about this post very well and its really bothered you for a long time, so please do report it or point it out to me in more detail and I'll take a look. I'm playing it down as much as you've played down women's protests and maternity. Take a pick how you choose to view that statement. It seems to me that your views are being challenged more than you'd like or expect, and now you're throwing insults. I guess the word irony is still lost on you. You've seen very well the posts in question. You agree with the perpetrator that much is perfectly clear, as just like him you're excusing them. It's pathetic. It also highlights my point about the rhetoric of bringing racism into everything, as that thread included no racism whatsoever, however it still didn't stop the perpetrator making jibes about other posters being racists. I haven't thrown any insults around, perhaps you've mistaken me for the person who made those vile, disgusting accusations. He’s seen them ..... but you didn’t ! 😂 |
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Post by oldie on Apr 12, 2021 13:22:47 GMT
Can we count to 10 and calm the waters please.
For the record I do think racists are scumbags, although I will absolutely accept I dont always recognise them correctly.
I, personally, get that you want to highlight that outcomes and their causes are more nuanced than a single descriptive (eg racist) and I agree that this is right.
So perhaps we can steer the discussion away from name calling and expressions of outrage onto the problems we face.
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