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Post by francegas on Apr 16, 2021 6:00:52 GMT
Just saw the footage of a 13 year old with his hands up being shot by a cop in the US. At what point are people going to ask for change? Until they change their gun laws and scrap the 2nd amendment it's never going to change no matter how loud people shout. I would also question what the hell a 13 year old is doing on the streets at 02.30am in possession of a fire arm. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 6:17:52 GMT
It is. A country with such ridiculous Gun Laws and a country that has a 2nd Amendment with a right to bear arms, there will always be people getting killed by being shot. If you look at it though, the USA has a population of 330,000,000 people, I think on a average there's 3 people killed a day, which equates to roughly 1 in every 100,000,000 people. I don't know what the figures are but if you add up the UK, France, Germany, Italy Spain, Ukraine and Poland's combined populations which would be similar to USA's population, What the difference would be in terms of people being killed by Guns or Police shootings? I don't know and it's a genuine question. I know the USA's figures because they're readily available, but dont know what the biggest countries in Europe(Excluding Russia) are. It'll be interesting to see what they are and what the difference is, considering the US have such insane Gun laws. If these are comparable then the US is much higher. Police homicides: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_countrywww.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/Deaths due to shootings: www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081.ampourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rates-from-firearmsCheers Stu. So USA has a higher number of killings by Law Enforcement and Deaths due to shootings. Which considering their ridiculous Gun Laws, Gun Culture and 2nd Amendment isn't a shock. Interestingly if these figures are accurate the USA's Murder Rates across the board are not to dissimilar to parts of Europe, Ukraine has a higher Homicide Rate per 100k, at 6.34, Turkey is 4.31, Latvia, Moldova, Estonia, even Gibraltar are all above 3. The USA's is 5.35. worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-countrySo shootings by Police in the US is it simply for safety as everybody else also has a firearm? Is it training(or lack of?), is it Brutality? Abuse of Authority? Because it's still extremely rare for anybody unarmed to be shot by Police. And even if somebody's unarmed it doesn't necessarily mean they're not dangerous either. As we've seen numerous times there are Police that clearly do abuse their power and are over zealous just for the sake of it, but being Police in a country with such insane Gun Laws & Culture it must be daunting. I only lived over there for a short while, and the City I lived in has one of the highest murder rates, where people are being shot dead every day through gang violence, just switching the News on everyday was harrowing enough, let alone being on the front line. Of course there are bad Cops, but I do have some sympathy for the good ones. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 16, 2021 7:17:09 GMT
What would be more interesting would be to see the figures of young white men shot by the police in the US compared to young black men. I’ve no idea but would guess it’s a lot higher . I’m not saying this as a rule of thumb but I’m pretty sure I’ve read before that the police over there tend to vote republican and many were/ are staunch Trump supporters . Also , what are the conviction rate for coppers who shoot and kill anyone of any colour ?
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 7:30:54 GMT
What would be more interesting would be to see the figures of young white men shot by the police in the US compared to young black men. I’ve no idea but would guess it’s a lot higher . I’m not saying this as a rule of thumb but I’m pretty sure I’ve read before that the police over there tend to vote republican and many were/ are staunch Trump supporters . Also , what are the conviction rate for coppers who shoot and kill anyone of any colour ? More White people are shot by Police. The US population is majority White, so not a surprise there. Disproportionately Black people are shot compared to the population but they Disproportionately commit more violent crime. In regards to the voting, it depends. Most of the places where the Gang Violence and high homicide rates are, are predominantly all Democrat Cities. Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee etc, all have Black Police Chiefs and Commissioners with many Black officers too. Some parts of the Country in staunch Republican states, that maybe the case I don't know. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 7:41:59 GMT
Even Minneapolis has a Black Police Chief in Medaria Arradondo, where the George Floyd and Daunte Wright incidents occured.
Where many of the officers are also Black and of other ethnicities.
Minneapolis is also a Democrat City.
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Post by yattongas on Apr 16, 2021 7:43:39 GMT
What would be more interesting would be to see the figures of young white men shot by the police in the US compared to young black men. I’ve no idea but would guess it’s a lot higher . I’m not saying this as a rule of thumb but I’m pretty sure I’ve read before that the police over there tend to vote republican and many were/ are staunch Trump supporters . Also , what are the conviction rate for coppers who shoot and kill anyone of any colour ? More White people are shot by Police. The US population is majority White, so not a surprise there. Disproportionately Black people are shot compared to the population but they Disproportionately commit more violent crime. In regards to the voting, it depends. Most of the places where the Gang Violence and high homicide rates are, are predominantly all Democrat Cities. Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee etc, all have Black Police Chiefs and Commissioners with many Black officers too. Some parts of the Country in staunch Republican states, that maybe the case I don't know. Have you got any figures ? I was talking comparatively with the shootings , obviously they’ll be more whites shot in total. |
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Post by francegas on Apr 16, 2021 7:45:30 GMT
As we're talking about US gun law, reports just coming out of yet another mass shooting. This time in Indianapolis.
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 7:59:07 GMT
As we're talking about US gun law, reports just coming out of yet another mass shooting. This time in Indianapolis. Yeah just heard about it. Crazy. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 8:03:30 GMT
More White people are shot by Police. The US population is majority White, so not a surprise there. Disproportionately Black people are shot compared to the population but they Disproportionately commit more violent crime. In regards to the voting, it depends. Most of the places where the Gang Violence and high homicide rates are, are predominantly all Democrat Cities. Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee etc, all have Black Police Chiefs and Commissioners with many Black officers too. Some parts of the Country in staunch Republican states, that maybe the case I don't know. Have you got any figures ? I was talking comparatively with the shootings , obviously they’ll be more whites shot in total. Here's a couple of figures. So yes in terms of population, which is about 14% and incidents Blacks are disproportionately involved, but there are reasons for that as they're also disproportionately involved in more violent crime. |
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Post by peterparker on Apr 16, 2021 8:06:39 GMT
What would be more interesting would be to see the figures of young white men shot by the police in the US compared to young black men. I’ve no idea but would guess it’s a lot higher . I’m not saying this as a rule of thumb but I’m pretty sure I’ve read before that the police over there tend to vote republican and many were/ are staunch Trump supporters . Also , what are the conviction rate for coppers who shoot and kill anyone of any colour ? More White people are shot by Police. The US population is majority White, so not a surprise there. Disproportionately Black people are shot compared to the population but they Disproportionately commit more violent crime. In regards to the voting, it depends. Most of the places where the Gang Violence and high homicide rates are, are predominantly all Democrat Cities. Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee etc, all have Black Police Chiefs and Commissioners with many Black officers too. Some parts of the Country in staunch Republican states, that maybe the case I don't know. So many socio-economic problems. For a first world country, America is so Dam backward The Wire might be 20 years old, but it's Quasi-fiction is as good a study of a lot of problems that seemingly still exist today |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 8:17:15 GMT
More White people are shot by Police. The US population is majority White, so not a surprise there. Disproportionately Black people are shot compared to the population but they Disproportionately commit more violent crime. In regards to the voting, it depends. Most of the places where the Gang Violence and high homicide rates are, are predominantly all Democrat Cities. Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee etc, all have Black Police Chiefs and Commissioners with many Black officers too. Some parts of the Country in staunch Republican states, that maybe the case I don't know. So many socio-economic problems. For a first world country, America is so f**king backward The Wire might be 20 years old, but it's Quasi-fiction is as good a study of a lot of problems that seemingly still exist today Absolutely. The Wire is the greatest piece of Television ever made imo. Simply for it's realism. I lived where it was set and filmed. Which is also why I always mention when people blame it on Republicans or Trump. All these Cities with the high crime, murder rates and Poverty are all Democrat Cities and have been for decades, the people running these Cities like Baltimore are mostly all Black, whether it be the Mayors, Commissioners, Police Chiefs, School Governers etc, the crime figures also increased while Obama was president. Yet somehow it's Republicans or Trump? I've also mentioned the Welfare State and the 'War On Poverty" legislation brought in by Lyndon B.Johnson which has coincided with such high crime, Murder rates and poverty in these Cities. I won't disagree with it being backward. It's a strange old place. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 16, 2021 8:27:36 GMT
So many socio-economic problems. For a first world country, America is so f**king backward The Wire might be 20 years old, but it's Quasi-fiction is as good a study of a lot of problems that seemingly still exist today Absolutely. The Wire is the greatest piece of Television ever made imo. Simply for it's realism. I lived where it was set and filmed. Which is also why I always mention when people blame it on Republicans or Trump. All these Cities with the high crime, murder rates and Poverty are all Democrat Cities and have been for decades, the people running these Cities like Baltimore are mostly all Black, whether it be the Mayors, Commissioners, Police Chiefs, School Governers etc, the crime figures also increased while Obama was president. Yet somehow it's Republicans or Trump? I've also mentioned the Welfare State and the 'War On Poverty" legislation brought in by Lyndon B.Johnson which has coincided with such high crime, Murder rates and poverty in these Cities. I won't disagree with it being backward. It's a strange old place. Who’s blamed it on republicans or Trump ? I’ve said the police ( so I believe) are more likely to vote for the republicans/ Trump. |
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Post by oldie on Apr 16, 2021 8:28:19 GMT
So many socio-economic problems. For a first world country, America is so f**king backward The Wire might be 20 years old, but it's Quasi-fiction is as good a study of a lot of problems that seemingly still exist today Absolutely. The Wire is the greatest piece of Television ever made imo. Simply for it's realism. I lived where it was set and filmed. Which is also why I always mention when people blame it on Republicans or Trump. All these Cities with the high crime, murder rates and Poverty are all Democrat Cities and have been for decades, the people running these Cities like Baltimore are mostly all Black, whether it be the Mayors, Commissioners, Police Chiefs, School Governers etc, the crime figures also increased while Obama was president. Yet somehow it's Republicans or Trump? I've also mentioned the Welfare State and the 'War On Poverty" legislation brought in by Lyndon B.Johnson which has coincided with such high crime, Murder rates and poverty in these Cities. I won't disagree with it being backward. It's a strange old place. I see that drum is being thumped again. The issues with inner cities are complex and embrace issues as unemployment, education, housing and health care provision. Since 1980's and Reagan's attempt at "Supply Side" economics inner cities have become increasingly deprived. In Baltimore inner city, which I think is where Gastafari lived for a while, 90% of the kids live in such deprived circumstances that they qualify for free school meals. 90%!! Now fundamentalists like Gastafri will claim that this is the fault of the democratic party in power. But what can they do when economic activity declines, thus local tax revenues and the feds like Trump refuse to intervene and prefer to watch their civilians rot whilst cutting their own taxes. The Road to Serfdom indeed (Friedrich Hayek), the bible for people like Gastafari |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 8:33:58 GMT
Absolutely. The Wire is the greatest piece of Television ever made imo. Simply for it's realism. I lived where it was set and filmed. Which is also why I always mention when people blame it on Republicans or Trump. All these Cities with the high crime, murder rates and Poverty are all Democrat Cities and have been for decades, the people running these Cities like Baltimore are mostly all Black, whether it be the Mayors, Commissioners, Police Chiefs, School Governers etc, the crime figures also increased while Obama was president. Yet somehow it's Republicans or Trump? I've also mentioned the Welfare State and the 'War On Poverty" legislation brought in by Lyndon B.Johnson which has coincided with such high crime, Murder rates and poverty in these Cities. I won't disagree with it being backward. It's a strange old place. I see that drum is being thumped again. The issues with inner cities are complex and embrace issues as unemployment, education, housing and health care provision. Since 1980's and Reagan's attempt at "Supply Side" economics inner cities have become increasingly deprived. In Baltimore inner city, which I think is where Gastafari lived for a while, 90% of the kids live in such deprived circumstances that they qualify for free school meals. 90%!! Now fundamentalists like Gastafri will claim that this is the fault of the democratic party in power. But what can they do when economic activity declines, thus local tax revenues and the feds like Trump refuse to intervene and prefer to watch their civilians rot whilst cutting their own taxes. The Road to Serfdom indeed (Friedrich Hayek), the bible for people like Gastafari Christ Oldie. Aren't you doing the exact same thing? Mentioning Reagan & Trump? Again I'm just pointing out that the 'War On Poverty' legislation has coincided with the high crime, murder rates and poverty in these Cities. |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 8:37:11 GMT
Absolutely. The Wire is the greatest piece of Television ever made imo. Simply for it's realism. I lived where it was set and filmed. Which is also why I always mention when people blame it on Republicans or Trump. All these Cities with the high crime, murder rates and Poverty are all Democrat Cities and have been for decades, the people running these Cities like Baltimore are mostly all Black, whether it be the Mayors, Commissioners, Police Chiefs, School Governers etc, the crime figures also increased while Obama was president. Yet somehow it's Republicans or Trump? I've also mentioned the Welfare State and the 'War On Poverty" legislation brought in by Lyndon B.Johnson which has coincided with such high crime, Murder rates and poverty in these Cities. I won't disagree with it being backward. It's a strange old place. Who’s blamed it on republicans or Trump ? I’ve said the police ( so I believe) are more likely to vote for the republicans/ Trump. I didn't mention you. I did say that in staunch Republican states that may well be the case I don't know. But it's a safe bet that in the Cities I've mentioned which are all staunch Democrat Cities, they themselves will also be Democrat. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 16, 2021 9:18:15 GMT
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Post by oldie on Apr 16, 2021 9:29:19 GMT
I see that drum is being thumped again. The issues with inner cities are complex and embrace issues as unemployment, education, housing and health care provision. Since 1980's and Reagan's attempt at "Supply Side" economics inner cities have become increasingly deprived. In Baltimore inner city, which I think is where Gastafari lived for a while, 90% of the kids live in such deprived circumstances that they qualify for free school meals. 90%!! Now fundamentalists like Gastafri will claim that this is the fault of the democratic party in power. But what can they do when economic activity declines, thus local tax revenues and the feds like Trump refuse to intervene and prefer to watch their civilians rot whilst cutting their own taxes. The Road to Serfdom indeed (Friedrich Hayek), the bible for people like Gastafari Christ Oldie. Aren't you doing the exact same thing? Mentioning Reagan & Trump? Again I'm just pointing out that the 'War On Poverty' legislation has coincided with the high crime, murder rates and poverty in these Cities. Because its a matter of historical fact. Detroit anyone? Bethlehem PA? What about those 90% of kids in inner city Baltimore on free school meals? Just like the UK industrial decline left whole swathes of the country in relative poverty. Just like Thatcher Reagan's ideology persuaded him to do nothing about it. You reap what you sow |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 10:05:49 GMT
Christ Oldie. Aren't you doing the exact same thing? Mentioning Reagan & Trump? Again I'm just pointing out that the 'War On Poverty' legislation has coincided with the high crime, murder rates and poverty in these Cities. Because its a matter of historical fact. Detroit anyone? Bethlehem PA? What about those 90% of kids in inner city Baltimore on free school meals? Just like the UK industrial decline left whole swathes of the country in relative poverty. Just like Thatcher Reagan's ideology persuaded him to do nothing about it. You reap what you sow So why are you mentioning that I'm banging the same old drum? When you're doing the exact same thing with Reagan, Trump and now Thatcher? I'm also stating a matter of historical fact. Since the 60's and the 'War On Poverty' legislation crime figures, Blacks killing eachother, Black kids living in Single parent households on welfare and poverty has multiplied considerably since before that when Blacks were living in Jim Crow law segregation. 90% of kids on school meals in Baltimore? Democrats have made it that way, it's been an 100% Democrat City since 1947, it does make you wonder, doesn't it? Do the Democrats want Black people in their pockets? The difference with me Oldie is that I dont have any affliation with either the Left or The Right, Democrat or Republican, Labour or Tory, I'm completely balanced. You on the other hand are so far ingrained in your rhetoric that you just can't get yourself to ever see things impartially. |
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Post by yattongas on Apr 16, 2021 10:11:23 GMT
Because its a matter of historical fact. Detroit anyone? Bethlehem PA? What about those 90% of kids in inner city Baltimore on free school meals? Just like the UK industrial decline left whole swathes of the country in relative poverty. Just like Thatcher Reagan's ideology persuaded him to do nothing about it. You reap what you sow So why are you mentioning that I'm banging the same old drum? When you're doing the exact same thing with Reagan, Trump and now Thatcher? I'm also stating a matter of historical fact. Since the 60's and the 'War On Poverty' legislation crime figures, Blacks killing eachother, Black kids living in Single parent households on welfare and poverty has multiplied considerably since before that when Blacks were living in Jim Crow law segregation. 90% of kids on school meals in Baltimore? Democrats have made it that way, it's been an 100% Democrat City since 1947, it does make you wonder, doesn't it? Do the Democrats want Black people in their pockets? The difference with me Oldie is that I dont have any affliation with either the Left or The Right, Democrat or Republican, Labour or Tory, I'm completely balanced. You on the other hand are so far ingrained in your rhetoric that you just can't get yourself to ever see things impartially. You’re not right wing ? 😂 Pull the other one . |
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 16, 2021 10:18:48 GMT
So why are you mentioning that I'm banging the same old drum? When you're doing the exact same thing with Reagan, Trump and now Thatcher? I'm also stating a matter of historical fact. Since the 60's and the 'War On Poverty' legislation crime figures, Blacks killing eachother, Black kids living in Single parent households on welfare and poverty has multiplied considerably since before that when Blacks were living in Jim Crow law segregation. 90% of kids on school meals in Baltimore? Democrats have made it that way, it's been an 100% Democrat City since 1947, it does make you wonder, doesn't it? Do the Democrats want Black people in their pockets? The difference with me Oldie is that I dont have any affliation with either the Left or The Right, Democrat or Republican, Labour or Tory, I'm completely balanced. You on the other hand are so far ingrained in your rhetoric that you just can't get yourself to ever see things impartially. You’re not right wing ? 😂 Pull the other one . I'm neither Right Wing or Left Wing. But yeah I'm certainly not interested in the Ultra Left Wing politics of recent years, i.e Corbyns 'Momentum' brigade and AOC over in the US. If that makes me 'Right Wing' in your eyes, then so be it. |
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