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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 17:36:39 GMT
Well, I was reading that the Rodney King riots were “successful” in bringing about a law that gave the president the right to deploy the army on American streets (with the authorisation of the mayor of the relevant state) so that didn’t quite work out for the best. It worked out exactly how the government wanted. That is why they deploy 'agent provocateurs' to cause trouble. And that happens
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Post by axegas on Jun 7, 2020 17:36:46 GMT
I think what they should do is get it out of the water and put it on display at the M-Shed, with captions informing people who Colston was in relation to the slave trade, the relevance it has to the City of Bristol and explaining when it was taken down and what those protestors were protesting about.
To me that strikes a good balance of informing people of Bristol's role in the slave trade, preserving the cities history but at the same time not having statues in the streets dedicated to people that profited from slavery.
I certainly don't condone vandalism of public property but the statue had to be taken down at some point.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 17:45:20 GMT
Genuine question: what are the notable successes in recent history of violent protest? Everything Martin Luther King accomplished. Everything Malcolm X accomplished. Everything Nelson Mandela accomplished. Of course Martin Luther King himself was a pacifist, but trust me people had the same critiques of him as much as they do towards the BlackLivesMatter movement, which is stupid, as BlackLivesMatter isn't responsible for any violence. What should be more spoken about at the moment though is clear and cut police brutality in America, everyday you see war crimes committed, people being shot with rubber bullets (rubber bullets are huge and have only a thin layer of rubber around the metal, they're meant to be shot at the floor to ricochet and spread crowds, not SHOT AT PEOPLE'S FACES). But this movement has 100% caused success in lots of aspects, the reopening of the Breonna Taylor case, George Floyd's murderer being pushed from third degree to second degree murder and the arrest of his fellow accomplice officers. I just find it interesting people have been more focussed on the rioting and not the police brutality at the moment, I certainly care more about a peaceful protestor getting shot by a rubber bullet in the face causing him to lose his eye than I do a Nike store getting looted. I hope everyone on this feed feels the same way. I’ll be honest as someone with a close relative who is battling cancer during a pandemic I’m focussed most on the fact that these protests shouldn’t be happening at all and should have been organised for when we have coronavirus under control. A second wave that will put focus on these protests and potentially kill some of those who attended will be bad for everyone concerned. The problem with looting is that it hurts innocent people just as being fired at by rubber bullets does. By all means fight with the police if you view them as your symbol of oppression but what does setting stuff on fire achieve?. I heard from a native of one of the American cities in the south that got hit by rioting that Antifa vandalised a petrol station and covered it with anti-fascist slogans only for it to turn out that the owners of the petrol station were black. Thankfully the local community took it upon themselves to clean up. I’m sure that story isn’t unique so for every Nike that gets burned out you’ll have people just trying to get by who have potentially lost their livelihoods. With regards to violence against peaceful protesters we have a totally different situation to America thankfully. I am of the opinion that if you want to go around rioting and looting for days on end then at some point martial law is needed to restore order but this is where it gets into grey areas because quite often the peaceful protesters are getting lumped in with the trouble makers and they are not actually fighting for the same cause. As much as I disagree with the protests taking place right now I said earlier how I felt so bad for the lad yesterday who was interviewed and was really sad and worried that the wankers who threw stuff at the police had tarnished the spirit of what was until then a peaceful protest. He practically disowned them and said that from what he could see they probably didn’t even know what the protest was even about. I wonder that about Colston’s statue to be honest. Quite often with protests the people who perform the most provocative actions are the ones furtherest removed from what the protest is meant to be trying to achieve.
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Jun 7, 2020 17:46:10 GMT
Glad the bloody thing has been pulled down finally. Good riddance to it and to the idea that a statue glorifying a slave trader is in any way more educational than a book on the subject.
Still more annoyed at the bloody crowds mind. These people must take responsibility for the effect they will have on others.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 17:47:20 GMT
I should have clarified that I was referring specifically for ‘western’ countries, particularly America and the U.K. to see if there is any precedent for violence actually achieving a positive outcome- so Ireland is a good point. Ok, if we want to keep it "white" Cuba, Nicaragua, Hungary, Poland the old Czechoslovakia For the record- you said white, not me!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 17:48:12 GMT
Glad the bloody thing has been pulled down finally. Good riddance to it and to the idea that a statue glorifying a slave trader is in any way more educational than a book on the subject. Still more annoyed at the bloody crowds mind. These people must take responsibility for the effect they will have on others. I must be getting old and lame, I am clearly not radical enough🤔😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 17:51:06 GMT
Glad the bloody thing has been pulled down finally. Good riddance to it and to the idea that a statue glorifying a slave trader is in any way more educational than a book on the subject. Still more annoyed at the bloody crowds mind. These people must take responsibility for the effect they will have on others. The finger pointing will be potentially very detrimental to BLM’s cause if there is a second wave in exactly three weeks from now and people start losing loved ones en mass again. Conversely if there is no second wave we might as well open up football stadiums because 15,000 crammed into the centre of Manchester can’t be so bad!
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Post by stuartcampbell on Jun 7, 2020 17:51:58 GMT
Instead of preaching "I can't believe people are out protesting during a pandemic, it's disgusting." Change that to "isn't it disgusting that people have to protest at all, never mind during a pandemic, for their basic human rights in 2020."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 17:58:48 GMT
Instead of preaching "I can't believe people are out protesting during a pandemic, it's disgusting." Change that to "isn't it disgusting that people have to protest at all, never mind during a pandemic, for their basic human rights in 2020." Spot on
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 17:59:09 GMT
Instead of preaching "I can't believe people are out protesting during a pandemic, it's disgusting." Change that to "isn't it disgusting that people have to protest at all, never mind during a pandemic, for their basic human rights in 2020." Of course, but if you need the “help” of society to buy into that then putting lives at risk (particularly those of your own community!) is probably not the best way to go about it. There are a hell of a lot of otherwise sympathetic people who have been alienated by the decision to go ahead with protests in this country. BLM will say “who cares” and that’s their right to feel that their needs trump those of the vulnerable, but it could be problematic further down the line- ie a second Covid wave.
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Post by inee on Jun 7, 2020 18:02:01 GMT
See to me that's selective use of history, as in I'm going to look back and condemn the nsdap for their treatment of others in the first part of the 40's. But will ignore that when I want to buy a new car or posh clothes etc., the simple fact is if those companies hadn't used slave labour they would not be here today. How about the nails in corn street should they be removed as slave money would have been banged down on them a few times So whats your opinion on the enslavement of white people in britain. Intersting your bit about your reasons for not joining barclays, so you din't support aparthied, but you decided to align yourself like many others with a terrorist. But there's a clear difference. It's like the differentiation between the art and the artist. I'm uneducated on the enslavement of white people in this country, please educate me. Just because I didn't agree with Apartheid doesn't mean I was fully and 100% behind the methods of the Mandelas, although I was fully behind the goal. But frankly at the time I always thought of Winnie as being far more terroristy than Nelson ever was. From before the romans arrived, in anglo saxon times many men women and children were captured by Norse-Irish traders and sold on mainly in ireland and other countries, after it was stopped the norse/irish traders invited many aboard ship only to set sail back to the irish slave markets, don't forget people who were press ganged later. Also many children rounded up in london and sent to australia along with many young prostitutes, many press-ganged into service, george washinton had a few white slaves Look it up as there's a lot about it but why is this never taught.
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Post by pirate on Jun 7, 2020 18:04:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 18:09:57 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 7, 2020 18:15:58 GMT
But there's a clear difference. It's like the differentiation between the art and the artist. I'm uneducated on the enslavement of white people in this country, please educate me. Just because I didn't agree with Apartheid doesn't mean I was fully and 100% behind the methods of the Mandelas, although I was fully behind the goal. But frankly at the time I always thought of Winnie as being far more terroristy than Nelson ever was. From before the romans arrived, in anglo saxon times many men women and children were captured by Norse-Irish traders and sold on mainly in ireland and other countries, after it was stopped the norse/irish traders invited many aboard ship only to set sail back to the irish slave markets, don't forget people who were press ganged later. Also many children rounded up in london and sent to australia along with many young prostitutes, many press-ganged into service, george washinton had a few white slaves Look it up as there's a lot about it but why is this never taught. Wasn't Lundy a Barbary Pirate base as recent as the 1630s and it took the fledgling US Navy in the early 1800s to finally defeat them?
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 7, 2020 18:20:03 GMT
Still catching up with this thread, for what it's worth I didn't want it taken down (especially in the way it was) for the reasons others have stated.
However now that it has, put it in a museum with a suitable display explaining the history behind it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 18:25:22 GMT
Still catching up with this thread, for what it's worth I didn't want it taken down (especially in the way it was) for the reasons others have stated. However now that it has, put it in a museum with a suitable display explaining the history behind it. The thread? 😂 A piece of Gaschat preserved forever in a museum in Bristol...
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Post by stuart1974 on Jun 7, 2020 18:28:43 GMT
The £308bn figure is because of the equivalent government expenditure (40%) not actual £s. The equivalent is closer to £2bn although the interest would increase that.
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 7, 2020 18:34:08 GMT
Dont agree whatever happened to at some stage doing some research and forming you own opinion. As for who knew about Colston everyone of my generation does as far as I'm aware. I'm not a great admire of Churchill can i please tear his statues down based on the logic of today? Churchill did a lot more good and a lot less bad than Colston. It's different. No its not that's only your opinion and that doesn't make it true As for Churchill I could easily argue that only WW2 redeemed him in anyway whatsoever,his disaster at Gallipoli, his treatment of the South Wales Miners,him Stalin and Roosevelt carving up Central Europe and condemning millions to oppression and state murder for decades for starters.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 18:44:58 GMT
The £308bn figure is because of the equivalent government expenditure (40%) not actual £s. The equivalent is closer to £2bn although the interest would increase that. Cc: Tristan cork @ Bristol post . Com
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jun 7, 2020 18:59:43 GMT
Churchill did a lot more good and a lot less bad than Colston. It's different. No its not that's only your opinion and that doesn't make it true As for Churchill I could easily argue that only WW2 redeemed him in anyway whatsoever,his disaster at Gallipoli, his treatment of the South Wales Miners,him Stalin and Roosevelt carving up Central Europe and condemning millions to oppression and state murder for decades for starters.
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