George Floyd - America so f**ked up

Right.
I guess we can never know that

I was born in '74, not trying to take credit, just saying.😀

Possibly the 20-30 year olds who saw active service in the war coming to an age where they could influence things as people in their mid 50s, following on from the changes in the 1960s.

I wouldn’t argue that- but I was debating Oldie’s point about how in years gone by we committed atrocities like sending our orphans to Australia and criminalising homosexuality.

I'm finding this thread hard to read.

As an exiled but proud son of Bristolians - My Dad's family were firmly based in Bedminster for generations, and my Mum's from nearer Southville - I firmly believe that this country is as tolerant of all cultures as any in the World, and has a level of freedom of expression that is again as good as anywhere else - a freedom that was fought for by my Father and others of his generation, with the inspiration of Churchill behind them.
If it had not been for that inspiration then we could easily have lost that struggle. Who knows what would have happened then - Spain would probably have joined the Axis powers, Germany would have taken the French Navy, and probably some of ours too, they most likely would have achieved the Atomic Bomb first, etc etc.
I therefore would not be alive, our minority peoples would have been exterminated as would have all those in Europe.
Yes Churchill, as a man of his time made mistakes and held views certainly in his early life that we are not comfortable with today, but you can't really judge through 21st century eyes. We can, and should, reflect and record achievements and the things we are not comfortable with, but put them into context of the time and the societal views and norms of those times.

This is also the case for Colston. He was a big part of a trade that we know was abhorrent. At the time Liverpool, London and of course Bristol grew rich on the trade that was supported by all pillars of society. That doesn't make it right, but it should also be noted that the British were the first to see the trade for what it was and put a stop to it, and to try to stop it throughout the rest of the world.
The good things that Colston did in Bristol (and others of his ilk elsewhere) left a legacy of care and education for the poor, of education, arts and religion for all of society too. Again, we should be able to reflect both sides of the man in a reasonable, historically contexed, and reasoned way.

If we can't, then where do we stop - do we tear down all that the man did - churches, schools, etc., and do we then go further back into history and start to tear down anything with a Roman, or Saxon, or Viking, or Norman connection because of the atrocities that those cultures and people dished out to the indigenous peoples of this island and elsewhere? Do we tear down anything to do with Piracy because of the atrocities that those people carried out?
Of course not - we learn, we understand, we make sure we improve and don't make the same mistakes again.

Mobs tearing things down and defacing things is not the way.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52977088

Whether or not you agree with the statue coming down, it’s good that a commission is now reviewing landmarks to reflect diversity

If you don’t think we are a more tolerant society now than the seventies then nothing I say is going to convince you quite frankly. Now, I’m just off to turn on the TV and watch people not get called “w**s”, maybe I’ll have the news read to me by a black person. Whatever next!

The ability to change things, if and when things are wrong. You cannot in China or Russia.
Of course, to change things, the ability to determine what is wrong is a pre requisite.

Agree. **it happens. Oldie is correct in many things but there is a limit to how you can deal with historical stuff. Where it is possible to take individual cases to a legal court with witnesses and stuff then the law should take action but we can’t prosecute many historical cases, the evidence may not be strong enough. We have to hope history and historians call out the abuses and make some kind of reparation in the public domain.  I think the case of Alan Turing is probably such a case, as are the examples of the Catholic Church/ unmarried mothers abuse in Ireland and the cases of British children sent to Australia and the abuse they suffered. 
They are all dreadful cases amongst many other dreadful cases. It’s not right but you have to hope a better, more caring world comes out of it. And that people and Governments are held to account for what they do / have done.
UTG!

Yes, the are many unresolved issues and that is why I said earlier on how governments need to be aware of and considering how to deal with them. One of the issues is the gap between the richest and poorest in our society. The levels of poverty that are found right next door to huge wealth is totally unacceptable. We’ve had more or less full employment over the past 10 years yet food banks and poverty are still high. Boris J talks about jobs and employment being the answer but in all honesty it appears that having a job does not narrow the inequality gap looking at the experience of the last 10 years. Racism is hugely important but so is poverty and I think dealing with inequalities and poverty is as important. Whilst I’m sure the government will do their best to resolve the race issue so I’m pretty sure they aren’t over concerned with the poverty stuff. Indeed I listen to most of them talk and feel pretty sure that, remarkably, they do not see inequality as an issue.
My original point was and remains Governments need to deal with these inequalities or else we have events / incidents where the extreme groups turn legal protests into violent, thuggish behaviour which ultimately does no one any good. The people with the power to change stuff, usually governments but not always, need to be changing things that need changing and I’m not sure BJ has the grasp of detail or ideas to be able to do that. When things are going well all is fine, when it’s not I’m sure he doesn’t have the skills or the personality to bring diverse groups together. I suspect his “in tray” is going to be pretty full for the next 4 years!
UTG!