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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 12:48:27 GMT
365 It's not my intention to come after you, but A) Are you a member of any political party? B) If yes, have you ever attended a candidate selection process C) Again, if yes, have you ever put yourself forward? Moving along, there are a decent spattering of ethnic minorities in Parliament (too low). Ask any ethnic minority group whether they feel represented... either locally or nationally, or whether they think their representatives are empowered. What is your experience and what do you think? I am not but I lived with someone who was very passionate about politics and active in his local Labour Party. As you say, there are ethnic minorities in parliament. The likes of David Lammy has managed to be elected representing a relatively poor constituency by London standards. The thing is I’m not saying this is an overnight process - but I don’t see how people can really believe in change if they don’t think it can be done through local politics. If the time is not right now with National feeling the way it is to make it “easier” for BLM’s representatives to campaign at a local level then when is it? They should have a lot of good will behind them. But real institutional change will obviously take decades. Who are the BLM youth voting for? Are they voting at all? There was a big song and dance about the grime 4 Corbyn movement that had some reasonable impact on Corbyn’s results in the 2017 election, but this time round they turned their backs on him (because of the anti-semitism iirc). If BLM youth can’t bring themselves to vote against the Tories then they are not helping themselves from the start. The Tories are very happy with the status quo and real change for anyone in society has to start with a non-Tory government. The Tories are probably laughing their tits off about the rioting- it’s a great political tool to motivate their hardcore support at a time when Cummings-gate was seeing a momentum swing to Labour. So keep rioting and keep doing Boris’s job for him. If we get a second wave that will be meat and drink to the government too and garner more Tory support at a time when they were on the ropes due to their handling of Covid. So if rioting doesn’t work and politics doesn’t work, what next? Civil Disobedience |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 12:49:44 GMT
As currently driven by the catalyst of the Floyd murder in the States. But outside of the confines of that prism, local minority activists talk constantly about housing, education and issues driven by poverty and low incomes. So much so, such is the noise they create, we have several reports on the issues produced by Parliament, as Starmer pointed out today at PMQs (another laughable performance by Johnson) and nothing happens, ever. We’ve just had a “great awokening” Oldie! Everyone wants change as of two weeks ago, apparently. Local politics should be BLM’s lobster right now. Don’t tell me you are actually as cynical as me in thinking that this is all just a cause celebre fuelled by lockdown boredom and the lack of a good social cause to promote now that Greta has gone away for a while to work on her second album? None of that. This feels much more broad based than 1968 |
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Post by warehamgas on Jun 10, 2020 12:56:24 GMT
Yes. That was the point of my posts earlier about inequalities and poverty. Racism is very important but so is the inequalities and poverty that seem to have been forgotten. I hope there will be no riots and I’m sure there won’t be over this but I hope the government will do something positive about it. But I doubt it. UTG! People don’t give a sh** wareham. Social mobility and class strongly ties in to the race issue- I’m reading a pretty enlightening book at the moment by a black rapper who does a great job of tying the two issues together. The problem is, we know it’s there, we know it’s awful and we know it’s a killer, but as a society we prioritise too many other issues (brexit, the environment, racism, feminism) and are so divided on those issues that we don’t have any energy left to unite and focus on the core issue that would have an impact on the previous ones. This story will sink without trace, food banks will be with us forever more and the Tories laugh all the way to the bank that the U.K. is so divided on so many issues. Lots of people do care but I get what you’re saying. I didn’t want to play down the racism that’s pretty endemic in many circles but inequalities, social mobility and poverty underpins much of it. All these issues are part of it. I’d go on to say that many people in authority in this country actually don’t want to deal with poverty, inequalities or provide equality if opportunity. They have a vested interest in the maintenance of the status quo, it suits them to do so. But that really is a very big issue which lies at the heart of politics in this country. UTG! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 13:00:19 GMT
I am not but I lived with someone who was very passionate about politics and active in his local Labour Party. As you say, there are ethnic minorities in parliament. The likes of David Lammy has managed to be elected representing a relatively poor constituency by London standards. The thing is I’m not saying this is an overnight process - but I don’t see how people can really believe in change if they don’t think it can be done through local politics. If the time is not right now with National feeling the way it is to make it “easier” for BLM’s representatives to campaign at a local level then when is it? They should have a lot of good will behind them. But real institutional change will obviously take decades. Who are the BLM youth voting for? Are they voting at all? There was a big song and dance about the grime 4 Corbyn movement that had some reasonable impact on Corbyn’s results in the 2017 election, but this time round they turned their backs on him (because of the anti-semitism iirc). If BLM youth can’t bring themselves to vote against the Tories then they are not helping themselves from the start. The Tories are very happy with the status quo and real change for anyone in society has to start with a non-Tory government. The Tories are probably laughing their tits off about the rioting- it’s a great political tool to motivate their hardcore support at a time when Cummings-gate was seeing a momentum swing to Labour. So keep rioting and keep doing Boris’s job for him. If we get a second wave that will be meat and drink to the government too and garner more Tory support at a time when they were on the ropes due to their handling of Covid. So if rioting doesn’t work and politics doesn’t work, what next? Civil Disobedience What does that involve? What are it’s demands? If you think this Tory government, of all Tory governments, would want to be seen to yield to the angry mob then I admire your optimism, if nothing else. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 13:02:57 GMT
People don’t give a sh** wareham. Social mobility and class strongly ties in to the race issue- I’m reading a pretty enlightening book at the moment by a black rapper who does a great job of tying the two issues together. The problem is, we know it’s there, we know it’s awful and we know it’s a killer, but as a society we prioritise too many other issues (brexit, the environment, racism, feminism) and are so divided on those issues that we don’t have any energy left to unite and focus on the core issue that would have an impact on the previous ones. This story will sink without trace, food banks will be with us forever more and the Tories laugh all the way to the bank that the U.K. is so divided on so many issues. Lots of people do care but I get what you’re saying. I didn’t want to play down the racism that’s pretty endemic in many circles but inequalities, social mobility and poverty underpins much of it. All these issues are part of it. I’d go on to say that many people in authority in this country actually don’t want to deal with poverty, inequalities or provide equality if opportunity. They have a vested interest in the maintenance of the status quo, it suits them to do so. But that really is a very big issue which lies at the heart of politics in this country. UTG! Bingo Wareham. As always, it’s great changing your picture on Facebook and going for a day out to shout a bit, but how many will still be on board when they are being asked to pay more tax to fund BLM programmes or give up their child’s university place to someone from a disadvantaged background? That’s when it becomes real for the “woke left” and you find out which side they were really on all along. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 13:55:07 GMT
Meanwhile Just to re enforce the point Over in the good old US of A flip.it/sUWlCu |
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Post by Gassy on Jun 10, 2020 15:38:56 GMT
Yeah I'm really curious what'll happen when Liverpool & Leeds win their respective leagues. I expect people out in at least the same numbers as the protests. Let's hope the country will be equally as scathing on Coventry fans, Liverpool etc about the 2nd wave. I get the feeling they wont - although maybe they will, any chance to blame Liverpool  They will deserve blame, but the precedent has already been set- they would just be copying what they saw on TV. Let’s be fair, if you were a Liverpool fan and you were itching to go to Anfield after winning the league for the first time in 30 years wouldn’t you be looking at the protests and thinking “okay winning the league does not compare to racism but if we have already had a total crowd of 137k for the protests, what more harm can we do by clowning about in the stadium car park?”. Every one will point to what went before and say “they started it!” Personally, I wouldn't go - nor would I be slightly bothered to go. But I can see why some might be tempted. I think there's a difference between going to get drunk and sing songs together, rather than protesting against a racism in your own country - as you say. All I more hope is that the messaging will be around the 2nd wave. There was a lot of Covidiots (as eric rightfully pointed out), and thats good. But it needs to be consistent with the blame that may come their way when we hit the 2nd wave IMO. |
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Post by William Wilson on Jun 10, 2020 18:17:49 GMT
I am not but I lived with someone who was very passionate about politics and active in his local Labour Party. As you say, there are ethnic minorities in parliament. The likes of David Lammy has managed to be elected representing a relatively poor constituency by London standards. The thing is I’m not saying this is an overnight process - but I don’t see how people can really believe in change if they don’t think it can be done through local politics. If the time is not right now with National feeling the way it is to make it “easier” for BLM’s representatives to campaign at a local level then when is it? They should have a lot of good will behind them. But real institutional change will obviously take decades. Who are the BLM youth voting for? Are they voting at all? There was a big song and dance about the grime 4 Corbyn movement that had some reasonable impact on Corbyn’s results in the 2017 election, but this time round they turned their backs on him (because of the anti-semitism iirc). If BLM youth can’t bring themselves to vote against the Tories then they are not helping themselves from the start. The Tories are very happy with the status quo and real change for anyone in society has to start with a non-Tory government. The Tories are probably laughing their tits off about the rioting- it’s a great political tool to motivate their hardcore support at a time when Cummings-gate was seeing a momentum swing to Labour. So keep rioting and keep doing Boris’s job for him. If we get a second wave that will be meat and drink to the government too and garner more Tory support at a time when they were on the ropes due to their handling of Covid. So if rioting doesn’t work and politics doesn’t work, what next? Civil Disobedience Yeah, right. I can just imagine when they get round to being civilly disobedient in your neighbourhood. See how enthusiastic for it all you are, when your new hi fi is a smouldering tangle of sparking circuits, in the remains of your home. Aux barricades....... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 18:26:20 GMT
Yeah, right. I can just imagine when they get round to being civilly disobedient in your neighbourhood. See how enthusiastic for it all you are, when your new hi fi is a smouldering tangle of sparking circuits, in the remains of your home. Aux barricades....... 😂😂😂 Meanwhile, over in Boston Beheaded the Christopher Columbus statue in Boston and threw it in the water |
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Post by Gassy on Jun 10, 2020 18:35:10 GMT
Lots of people do care but I get what you’re saying. I didn’t want to play down the racism that’s pretty endemic in many circles but inequalities, social mobility and poverty underpins much of it. All these issues are part of it. I’d go on to say that many people in authority in this country actually don’t want to deal with poverty, inequalities or provide equality if opportunity. They have a vested interest in the maintenance of the status quo, it suits them to do so. But that really is a very big issue which lies at the heart of politics in this country. UTG! Bingo Wareham. As always, it’s great changing your picture on Facebook and going for a day out to shout a bit, but how many will still be on board when they are being asked to pay more tax to fund BLM programmes or give up their child’s university place to someone from a disadvantaged background? That’s when it becomes real for the “woke left” and you find out which side they were really on all along. Well that's well and nice to place it down to positive discrimination. But true equality should bypass that to begin with, where we don't need to pick people based on colour - because statistically speaking, the numbers work themselves out. The route cause lies much deeper than just artificially giving jobs to people from BAME backgrounds. It starts in our neighbourhoods, our access to education, the standard of education in those areas, the job opportunities around them etc. - the list goes on. But all of this only goes a proves my point in the other thread that the UK is institutionally racist. We (including myself) say that we're not racist and we can all get offended about it, but as soon as we have the suggestion of proportional representation that may go against us, we don't like it. Suddenly it's not fair. But in reality, it's not fair - it's just the other way around. And that is the definition of white privilege. It's not about not going through hardship, it's about not having the same struggles as others have - purely down to your skin colour. And all this is well and good saying it, but sadly - I don't see any country in the world changing it. I don't think we'll ever abolish racism, certainly not institutional racism. Not in our lifetimes anyway. But we can try, and we can stand up for whats right. I think the first step is admitting we have these issues. If we can do that as a country, we can then take the next steps to trying to abolish it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 18:50:28 GMT
Bingo Wareham. As always, it’s great changing your picture on Facebook and going for a day out to shout a bit, but how many will still be on board when they are being asked to pay more tax to fund BLM programmes or give up their child’s university place to someone from a disadvantaged background? That’s when it becomes real for the “woke left” and you find out which side they were really on all along. Well that's well and nice to place it down to positive discrimination. But true equality should bypass that to begin with, where we don't need to pick people based on colour - because statistically speaking, the numbers work themselves out. The route cause lies much deeper than just artificially giving jobs to people from BAME backgrounds. It starts in our neighbourhoods, our access to education, the standard of education in those areas, the job opportunities around them etc. - the list goes on. But all of this only goes a proves my point in the other thread that the UK is institutionally racist. We (including myself) say that we're not racist and we can all get offended about it, but as soon as we have the suggestion of proportional representation that may go against us, we don't like it. Suddenly it's not fair. But in reality, it's not fair - it's just the other way around. And that is the definition of white privilege. It's not about not going through hardship, it's about not having the same struggles as others have - purely down to your skin colour. And all this is well and good saying it, but sadly - I don't see any country in the world changing it. I don't think we'll ever abolish racism, certainly not institutional racism. Not in our lifetimes anyway. But we can try, and we can stand up for whats right. I think the first step is admitting we have these issues. If we can do that as a country, we can then take the next steps to trying to abolish it. Yep Add blaming others for their personal circumstances. |
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 10, 2020 19:21:42 GMT
Well that's well and nice to place it down to positive discrimination. But true equality should bypass that to begin with, where we don't need to pick people based on colour - because statistically speaking, the numbers work themselves out. The route cause lies much deeper than just artificially giving jobs to people from BAME backgrounds. It starts in our neighbourhoods, our access to education, the standard of education in those areas, the job opportunities around them etc. - the list goes on. But all of this only goes a proves my point in the other thread that the UK is institutionally racist. We (including myself) say that we're not racist and we can all get offended about it, but as soon as we have the suggestion of proportional representation that may go against us, we don't like it. Suddenly it's not fair. But in reality, it's not fair - it's just the other way around. And that is the definition of white privilege. It's not about not going through hardship, it's about not having the same struggles as others have - purely down to your skin colour. And all this is well and good saying it, but sadly - I don't see any country in the world changing it. I don't think we'll ever abolish racism, certainly not institutional racism. Not in our lifetimes anyway. But we can try, and we can stand up for whats right. I think the first step is admitting we have these issues. If we can do that as a country, we can then take the next steps to trying to abolish it. Yep Add blaming others for their personal circumstances. However,you can legislate and educate all you like unfortunately, you can't legislate for how people think. |
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 10, 2020 19:25:44 GMT
Yeah, right. I can just imagine when they get round to being civilly disobedient in your neighbourhood. See how enthusiastic for it all you are, when your new hi fi is a smouldering tangle of sparking circuits, in the remains of your home. Aux barricades....... 😂😂😂 Meanwhile, over in Boston Beheaded the Christopher Columbus statue in Boston and threw it in the water Sorry know little about Columbus other than the obivious,why was this ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 19:28:41 GMT
😂😂😂 Meanwhile, over in Boston Beheaded the Christopher Columbus statue in Boston and threw it in the water Sorry know little about Columbus other than the obivious,why was this ? I can't speak for the people, I have no further information as I have just been told. Let me hazard a guess, Imperialism? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 19:29:53 GMT
Yep Add blaming others for their personal circumstances. However,you can legislate and educate all you like unfortunately, you can't legislate for how people think. You are right of course. Despite best efforts, you cannot educate Pork |
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Post by William Wilson on Jun 10, 2020 19:32:50 GMT
Yeah, right. I can just imagine when they get round to being civilly disobedient in your neighbourhood. See how enthusiastic for it all you are, when your new hi fi is a smouldering tangle of sparking circuits, in the remains of your home. Aux barricades....... 😂😂😂 Meanwhile, over in Boston Beheaded the Christopher Columbus statue in Boston and threw it in the water And they’ve banned, “Gone with the wind”, too. The quotidien sight of young black youths stabbing each other to death in south London, are over forever. Hooray. |
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 10, 2020 19:35:35 GMT
Sorry know little about Columbus other than the obivious,why was this ? I can't speak for the people, I have no further information as I have just been told. Let me hazard a guess, Imperialism? Question Where's the dateline going to be ,the Romans massive imperialists,the Normans? |
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 10, 2020 19:38:14 GMT
However,you can legislate and educate all you like unfortunately, you can't legislate for how people think. You are right of course. Despite best efforts, you cannot educate Pork That is true but what if the majority refuse or don't want to be educated? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 19:54:28 GMT
😂😂😂 Meanwhile, over in Boston Beheaded the Christopher Columbus statue in Boston and threw it in the water And they’ve banned, “Gone with the wind”, too. The quotidien sight of young black youths stabbing each other to death in south London, are over forever. Hooray. But their Hi Fi kit is excellent. Meanwhile, in a cultural backwater... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 19:56:04 GMT
You are right of course. Despite best efforts, you cannot educate Pork That is true but what if the majority refuse or don't want to be educated? Their choice, it's still a free world, for some. They choose to be cannon or factory fodder, the choice is entirely theirs. Who would? Oh yes |
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